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Author Topic: H.O.T.C.A. and H.O.C.N.A.  (Read 4992 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasios
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« on: November 17, 2002, 01:00:13 PM »

Dear OrthodoxyorDeath,

I have an honest question. Is the True Orthodox Church you belong to that of the H.O.T.C.A. at http://www.saintmarkella.org?

If so, I am wondering why they are not in union with HOCNA?  They seem to share ecclesiology.

In Christ,

anastasios
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2002, 02:20:26 PM »

Dear OrthodoxyorDeath,

I have an honest question. Is the True Orthodox Church you belong to that of the H.O.T.C.A. at http://www.saintmarkella.org?

If so, I am wondering why they are not in union with HOCNA?  They seem to share ecclesiology.

In Christ,

anastasios

Anastasios, I'm obviously not OoD, but from what I can ascertain, the HOTCA (Hellenic Orthodox Traditionalist Church of America, Metropolis of North and South America) under "Metropolitan" Pavlos of Astoria is part and parcel of  the GOC (Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece) in the Synod under the presidency of "Archbishop" Chrysostomos II "of Athens and All Greece."  I do believe this is the same sect to which OoD belongs in that I can find no reference anywhere to another of the several Greek Old Calendarist jurisdictions identifying itself in English as "Genuine" rather than "True."

As to why the HOTCA/GOC is not in union with the HOCNA, or even the Matthewites for that matter, I am not qualified to say.  It would be better if OoD answered that question to you for himself.

Hypo-Ortho
« Last Edit: November 17, 2002, 02:44:34 PM by Hypo-Ortho » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2002, 07:23:24 PM »

Anastasios,

I have not received honest answers to my own sincere questions here so I do not feel inclined to answer yours.

Basically, hypo-orthodox is correct and I will add that we are not in communion with HOCNA because they are in communion with a group that left our synod. Even a mild review of history will show our synod has the succession of archbishops all the way back to the official break of the renovationists.

Having said all that, there have been some wonderful reunions and many discussions of unions and re-unions among the “Old Calendarists” for many years now. In the wake of the sunken ship called new-calendarism, it should be not at all shocking that confusion should reign. But I believe, if Christ allows this fallen world to continue on much more, you will see a coming together of many followers of Holy Tradition.
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Anastasios
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2002, 09:44:23 PM »

Dear OoD:

You sound offended that "your questions were not answered."  I'd say that many of the people here have given you a lot of attention and many have tried to answer your questions.  I happened to ask you a sincere question, which if you are sincere about your Church, you should be happy to answer.  You don't need to get snappy.

In Christ,

anastasios
« Last Edit: November 17, 2002, 09:47:19 PM by anastasios » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2002, 12:14:32 AM »

Anastasios,

I thought I responded and answered your question without prejudice. Please understand there was nothing snappy intended.
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2002, 12:51:22 AM »

Dear OoD:

I appreciate your answer and for that I thank you. What I objected to was when you said "I have not received honest answers to my own sincere questions here so I do not feel inclined to answer yours."  That was what I saw as snappy.  If you didn't mean it that way, I'm sorry, but that's how I took it.  Anyway, I think I'd like to visit one of your parishes.  I live in NY so that should be easy.  If you live in NY and would like me to attend yours, please send me a private message.  If not, perhaps you could provide me with a contact.  I probably would have to stand in the nave of the temple, though, is that correct?

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2002, 01:36:07 AM »

Anastasios,

My comment was more an expression of disappointment, and the snappyness was more to express a lack of mutual openness (not with you). I have been a somewhat frustrated, but like you say,  am greatful there may be someone taking these discussion seriously. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I would be most honored to meet you, I am however in Chicago.

If you send an e-mail to the St. Markella site, you will almost always get an quick response. If you would like, I could contact Bishop Christodolous and put you in direct communication; He speaks fluent english and is very pleasant to talk to.

As far as standing in the nave, I suspect not and especially if they understand who you are when you come. We do say the entire liturgy of the Catechumens and all catechumens are expected to depart when those words are read. You however will not be a catechuman and the practice I have always seen is to excercise a certain degree of economia until the person understands those measures of the faith.

Let me know if you would like to be put into contact with the Bishop.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2002, 01:45:09 AM by OrthodoxyOrDeath » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2002, 07:41:29 PM »

If I'm not mistaken those groups aren't in communion with world Orthodoxy, and if I'm not mistaken the Greek schismatic groups you listed before, has published false informaton and rumours stating that His Holliness Bartholomew is a freemasson and that his previous successors were members of the Rosacruceans (together with the Latin Pope John XXIII), what an easy way to invent things.
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Anastasios
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2002, 07:56:17 PM »

Remie,

You are correct that these groups are not in communion with "world Orthodoxy".

In Christ,

anastasios
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2002, 08:52:02 PM »

Remie,

You are correct that these groups are not in communion with "world Orthodoxy".

In Christ,

anastasios

Anastasios, brother in Christ, might not this be an over-simplification?  While, I would venture, *most* of these groups are not in communion with what we are calling "world Orthodoxy," some, through the ROCOR, have an indirect communion.  

I know of ROCOR priests who have blessed their parishioners to attend Services in Greek Old Calendar churches *other than* churches of the True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili (Attica), Greece, with which they are officially in communion.  I even know of one ROCOR priest who has blessed a parishioner to attend services in a church of the Bulgarian Patriarchate, with which the ROCOR is not in communion, and also in a monastery of the Greek Orthodox Missionary Archdiocese of Vasiloupolis (Queens), NY, Synod of "Archbishop" Maximos "of Athens and All Greece"!

Hypo-Ortho
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Anastasios
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2002, 01:03:14 AM »

Dear Hypo,

I was referring to HOCNA and HOCTA specifically!  I know that Met. Cyprian is in communion with ROCOR!

Thanks!

In Christ,

anastasios
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Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.com

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Tags: HOTCA HOCNA Old Calendarists traditionalist GOC 
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