Author Topic: The church of Poland?  (Read 1845 times)

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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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The church of Poland?
« on: February 05, 2010, 05:05:06 PM »
Today I was thinking.....some day I want to take my grandmother back to her ancestrial home of Warsaw, Poland.  she has regretted not going to Poland to see her grandparent's graves when she was younger.  is the liturgy the same in Poland?  I would think they have a large Catholic population in Poland, but I know there is an Orthodox church of Poland.

Offline mike

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 05:41:32 PM »
There are about 400000 of the Orthodox in Poland (there are about 380000000 citizens of Poland), so there aren't many of us. Services are done in Church Slavonic (with the exception of 4 Churches) and the Liturgy is highly Russianised (with an exception of a few places where it is done in Ukrainian style). I think it would not differ much from the one you can see in your OCA Parish.

I, and I think Michał, will be glad to answer any of your questions you have about Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 05:42:09 PM by mike »
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2010, 10:43:23 PM »
There are about 400000 of the Orthodox in Poland (there are about 380000000 citizens of Poland), so there aren't many of us. Services are done in Church Slavonic (with the exception of 4 Churches) and the Liturgy is highly Russianised (with an exception of a few places where it is done in Ukrainian style). I think it would not differ much from the one you can see in your OCA Parish.

I, and I think Michał, will be glad to answer any of your questions you have about Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church.
I think you may have an extra zero in the population of Poland. There are 38 million, not 380 million. Not even the United States has that many people!

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:POL&dl=en&hl=en&q=population+of+Poland
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 10:44:48 PM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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Offline mike

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 03:53:09 PM »
LOL, thanks.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 04:02:32 PM »
LOL, thanks.
Here I was thinking "My, those Poles have been busy since I was there." :o
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 04:46:33 PM »
LOL, thanks.
Here I was thinking "My, those Poles have been busy since I was there." :o
LOL! When were you there? I visited Warsaw, Lodz, and Krakow in the summer of 2006.
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 11:27:17 PM »
The Polish Orthodox Church for all intents and purposes is Ukrainian or Belarusian.  The Polish Orthodox church has been providing some very good priests for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada since about 1980.
When I have visited Poland, one of the things that impressed me in the Orthodox Church was the fantastic choirs.  The priests are very, very intelligent.  Very good at answering questions about the faith.  It has always been a great experience.  I could not find a single thing to say against the Orthodox Church in Poland.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 01:14:00 AM »
LOL, thanks.
Here I was thinking "My, those Poles have been busy since I was there." :o
LOL! When were you there? I visited Warsaw, Lodz, and Krakow in the summer of 2006.

In 1987, still under Communism.  I was at Warsaw, Krakow, Czestachowa, Gdynia, Gdansk (I have a great grandfather from near there) as I remember.
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 10:37:10 PM »
Today I was thinking.....some day I want to take my grandmother back to her ancestrial home of Warsaw, Poland.  she has regretted not going to Poland to see her grandparent's graves when she was younger.  is the liturgy the same in Poland?  I would think they have a large Catholic population in Poland, but I know there is an Orthodox church of Poland.

When did she leave Poland?  Are you sure she actually lived right in the city of Warsaw?  Is the cemetary right in the city of Warsaw?

The reason I am asking is whenever I have visited I was impressed that the Poles were able to reproduced the historical parts of Warsaw after the destruction during WW2.  But there are a lot of new buildings built after the war, so her childhood home may not be standing.

There is an Orthodox cathedral in Warsaw going back tothe days of Russian rule, but the bulk of the Orthodox population consisting mostly of Ukrainians and Belarusians does not live right in Warsaw but in other parts of the country.  Some of them were forcibly moved right after the war from the Carpathians to the areas where the Germans used to live in  western Poland.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 10:57:14 PM »
the bulk of the Orthodox population consisting mostly of Ukrainians and Belarusians does not live right in Warsaw but in other parts of the country.  Some of them were forcibly moved right after the war from the Carpathians to the areas where the Germans used to live in  western Poland.

This is what happened with some members of my family. During the war they came to kill all the Ukrainians living in Poland, but my Aunt was married to a Polish man, so they moved her to the Western side of Poland instead.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 10:52:47 AM »
the bulk of the Orthodox population consisting mostly of Ukrainians and Belarusians does not live right in Warsaw but in other parts of the country.  Some of them were forcibly moved right after the war from the Carpathians to the areas where the Germans used to live in  western Poland.

This is what happened with some members of my family. During the war they came to kill all the Ukrainians living in Poland, but my Aunt was married to a Polish man, so they moved her to the Western side of Poland instead.

This same sort of thing went on in Czechoslovakia after the war as many non-Slovak Greek Catholics from the east were relocated into Moravia and the Sudetenland where ethnic Germans lived before the war or pushed further into Transcarpathian Ukraine for the same reasons. After the collapse of communism some attempted to return to their ancestral regions with mixed results.  For example, I have family who returned to Slovakia from Ukraine as Orthodox in the early1990's and others who live near Plsen in the Czech republic and remain Greek Catholic.

Offline filipinopilgrim

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 06:56:11 AM »

I, and I think Michał, will be glad to answer any of your questions you have about Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church.

Ok. I have a question. I know that the Old Calendar is predominant in the Polish Orthodox Church, but how common is the use of the New Calendar? I remember reading that Met. Sawa uses the New Calendar.  
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 06:56:27 AM by filipinopilgrim »

Offline Michał

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 07:09:57 AM »
I know that the Old Calendar is predominant in the Polish Orthodox Church, but how common is the use of the New Calendar?

We are officially on the new calendar. Four out of six diocesan bishops (including the Metropolitan) of our Church are following the new calendar. One diocese is entirely new calendar, one is entirely old calendar, one is predominantly new calendar, one is predominantly old calendar and two are fifty-fifty. All of this is regarding the situation in Poland itself. I'm not sure how the things look like in our Brazilian diocese.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 07:10:49 AM by Michał »

Offline filipinopilgrim

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 07:16:53 AM »
I know that the Old Calendar is predominant in the Polish Orthodox Church, but how common is the use of the New Calendar?

We are officially on the new calendar. Four out of six diocesan bishops (including the Metropolitan) of our Church are following the new calendar. One diocese is entirely new calendar, one is entirely old calendar, one is predominantly new calendar, one is predominantly old calendar and two are fifty-fifty. All of this is regarding the situation in Poland itself. I'm not sure how the things look like in our Brazilian diocese.

Interesting. However, isn't the Old Calendar diocese -- Bialystok, I believe -- the one with the largest number of faithful and with most monasteries?

Offline Michał

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 07:26:20 AM »
However, isn't the Old Calendar diocese -- Bialystok, I believe -- the one with the largest number of faithful and with most monasteries?

The Diocese of Bialystok and Gdansk is predominantly, but not entirely, old calendar. It does have the largest number of faithful, but the Diocese of Warszawa and Bielsk Podlaski has more monasteries (if we count one which is stauropegic).

Offline mike

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2010, 11:35:37 AM »
Brazil is whole Old-Calendar.

However, isn't the Old Calendar diocese -- Bialystok, I believe -- the one with the largest number of faithful and with most monasteries?

The Diocese of Bialystok and Gdansk is predominantly, but not entirely, old calendar. It does have the largest number of faithful, but the Diocese of Warszawa and Bielsk Podlaski has more monasteries (if we count one which is stauropegic).

I wouldn't say the Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk is the largest. Apart from Białystok there aren't any towns with major Orthodox presence. On the other hand the Diocese of Warsaw and Bielsk Podlaski include Bielsk Podlaski, Hajnówka, Siemiatycze, and many Podlachian villages which are 90%+ Orthodox. IMO it's the biggest one.
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Offline filipinopilgrim

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2010, 11:57:36 AM »
I know that the Old Calendar is predominant in the Polish Orthodox Church, but how common is the use of the New Calendar?

We are officially on the new calendar. Four out of six diocesan bishops (including the Metropolitan) of our Church are following the new calendar. One diocese is entirely new calendar, one is entirely old calendar, one is predominantly new calendar, one is predominantly old calendar and two are fifty-fifty. All of this is regarding the situation in Poland itself. I'm not sure how the things look like in our Brazilian diocese.

May I request that you list which dioceses are Old Calendar and New Calendar?

The Church of Poland is quite interesting, then, seeming to be almost evenly split between Old and New (although most bishops are on the New Calendar). When did the shift to the New Calendar begin, and has there been any controversies about it?

Offline mike

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2010, 12:08:30 PM »
Well, I and Michał differ in opinion a bit. As far as I know Przemyśl-Nowy Sącz and Brazil Dioceses are entirely old-calendar. Białystok-Gdańsk and Wrocław-Szczecin Dioceses are mostly old-calendar and their diocesan Hierarchs are old-calendar. Łódź-Poznań Diocese is moslty new-calendar. Warsaw-Bielsk Podlaski and Lublin-Chełm Dioceses are 50:50 and their Hierarchs are new-calendar. I suppose the Military Ordinariate is also new-calendar. Of course I can be wrong.


I suppose the shift to the new calendar began in 1920' and there were no major controversies about it.
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Offline Michał

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2010, 12:37:40 PM »
Well, I and Michał differ in opinion a bit. As far as I know Przemyśl-Nowy Sącz and Brazil Dioceses are entirely old-calendar. Białystok-Gdańsk and Wrocław-Szczecin Dioceses are mostly old-calendar and their diocesan Hierarchs are old-calendar.

Yeah, I was wrong about the Wrocław-Szczecin Diocese.

I suppose the Military Ordinariate is also new-calendar.

I had an impression it's old calendar (but it's just an impression).


I suppose the shift to the new calendar began in 1920' and there were no major controversies about it.

But still many simple folks from Podlachia can be very scandalized by the new calendar.

Offline mike

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Re: The church of Poland?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2010, 12:44:18 PM »
I had an impression it's old calendar (but it's just an impression).

In Białystok the Parish follows the new calendar. I don't know about the rest.
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