TomS
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« on: December 29, 2003, 07:59:06 AM » |
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New Read on 'Rings,' Double Standard on Slurs Monday, December 29, 2003 : By Scott Norvell The deep thinkers at Indymedia have come to the conclusion that the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy paints a "racist stereotypical tapestry" that does a disservice to young viewers everywhere. Lloyd Hart says people of color are all associated with the Dark Lord Sauron in the movie and the elephant-riding mercenaries too closely resemble the cultures of Africa, Persia and East Asia. The Uruk-hai also too closely resemble Native Americans, which is sure to cause "a great deal of cultural and racial alienation." The fact that King Theoden, a white guy, calls his troops the "great warriors of the West" clinches it in Hart’s eyes. "Can you imagine how people of skin color, of Persian, Arab and East Asian ethnic background feel when they come out of these films where all the heroes are white and all the 'evil doers' are of dark skin," Hart writes. ----- I'm  |
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Vicki
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2003, 08:51:38 AM » |
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You hated the movies anyway  |
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Robert
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2003, 08:56:29 AM » |
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This is a %#@%&*(@#% ridiculous article.
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prodromos
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2003, 09:18:17 AM » |
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The Uruk-hai also too closely resemble Native Americans...
Yeah, that's exactly what came into my head when I was watching the second movie, "they look just like Native Americans... NOT!"  John. |
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Keble
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2003, 09:35:13 AM » |
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But did they like it as a movie?
What's happening here is a sort of spiritual derangement; whether it is learned or innate is perhaps beside the point. The fact remains that they see only within themselves. Having seen the last movie itself within the last 24 hours, I cannot comprehend how someone could walk out of it with such a clinical, analytical reaction. Or rather, I can only see such a reaction as the result of a kind of impairment.
I might not bother with this analysis if it weren't for the fact that this same impairment is evident almost anywhere that religion is discussed in public. It shows up in this forum; in another forum it is heard more frequently; and in the newsgroup it has overrun most sensible discussion.
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Deacon Lance
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2003, 09:37:11 AM » |
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I was wondering when this was going to come up. It is true that the Easterlings and Southrons are in the books depicted as non-European and roughly analagous to Arabs (Southrons) and People of the Asian Steppe-Huns, Tartars (Easterlings). I don't think this was a racial slur but simply reflected the fact that those fantasy races were under the shadow of Morgoth and Sauron, just as the real races are non-Christian and under the Shadow of the Evil One. They are never depicted as irreversibly evil as the Orcs are. Their are also evil European types, the Dunlendings and Black Numenorians, and good non-European types, Ghan buri Ghan and the Drugs, aboriginal-type people who were in fact so good the were counted among the ranks of the Edain. C.S. Lewis does the samething, the great foes of Narnia are the Calormene, who are obviously Arab types. The Uruk-hai/Native American comparison is more a reflection on the author than books or movies and is completely of the wall. What about the Uruks looks Native American? The fact that they have war paint in the form of a white hand? Many cultures use war paint, they'll have to do better than that.
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« Last Edit: December 29, 2003, 09:38:25 AM by Deacon Lance »
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My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2003, 10:06:01 AM » |
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I was wondering when this was going to come up. It is true that the Easterlings and Southrons are in the books depicted as non-European and roughly analagous to Arabs (Southrons) and People of the Asian Steppe-Huns, Tartars (Easterlings). I don't think this was a racial slur but simply reflected the fact that those fantasy races were under the shadow of Morgoth and Sauron, just as the real races are non-Christian and under the Shadow of the Evil One. They are never depicted as irreversibly evil as the Orcs are. Their are also evil European types, the Dunlendings and Black Numenorians, and good non-European types, Ghan buri Ghan and the Drugs, aboriginal-type people who were in fact so good the were counted among the ranks of the Edain. C.S. Lewis does the samething, the great foes of Narnia are the Calormene, who are obviously Arab types. The Uruk-hai/Native American comparison is more a reflection on the author than books or movies and is completely of the wall. What about the Uruks looks Native American? The fact that they have war paint in the form of a white hand? Many cultures use war paint, they'll have to do better than that.
Good post. I might add that the Corsairs of Umbar (if I remember correctly) are evil European types as they are descendents of the rebellious members of the house of Gondor. Excellent point about Ghan buri Ghan and the Woses. |
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"My Lord and My God!"--Doubting Thomas, AD 33
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Father Peter
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2003, 10:19:29 AM » |
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And the army of the dead is itself composed, or decomposed  of Westerners who had been treacherous in the past. PT |
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2003, 06:10:56 PM » |
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some people will always find something PC to KVETCH about! Funny I did not even notice the skin color of the peoples in the movie. I was too busy identifying with CHARACTER and MORALITY rather than the accident of skin color. BTW - if you read the Similrillian, Sauron originally got his start with NORTH men.
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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nicodemus
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2003, 04:05:31 PM » |
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People really have nothing better to do with their time do they? My Indian (Asian, not Native American) wife thought the movies where great...as do all her cousins, parents, etc. My Arab friends love the movie too. Maybe New Zealanders should get mad because Orcs have New Zealand accents...oh wait a minute...New Zealanders player Orcs, so New Zealanders must be evil. That's the only logical conclusion we can draw here. Now that we've got that settled, what's next? |
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2003, 04:12:10 PM » |
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nicodemus: I read today in the National Review a commentary concerning Aragorn’s speech to the Armies of the West before the black gate where in he says: "men of the west . . . ." The commentary and I are both amazed that the PC police did not catch this line and force it to be "PEOPLE of the west" instead!! Damn Tolkein was a sexist it seems!! |
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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TomS
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"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2003, 04:14:00 PM » |
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Remember the Anti-Defamation League getting upset about the slaveholder in the market (he owned Luke when he was a boy) who had a hooked nose and a yiddish accent in the "new" Star Wars?
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2003, 12:24:05 AM » |
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hi...im new but this thread is the perfect place to start for me, since i just saw ROTK and i am very into the books and tolkien...no one has mentioned yet (altho im sure some of u know this since u seem to be into the lore of middle earth a bunch too) that tolkien WAS writing partially from the mindset of being dissatisfied w/ the mythology and legend of England (his native country) - king arthur didnt quite do it for him - so part of his great life's work's (all the literature of middle earth) purpose was to fill this void... when i saw ROTK the 1st time and heard aragorn say "men of the west" in that AWESOME speech, this is the main thing i thought of, and my heart was warmed because i thought: ah, that line is something that Tolkien definitely would approve of. of course, England is not the entire west, but you get my drift LOTR was in a way a love letter from tolkien to his beloved country, and if critics knew any better, and CARED about the author's "intent," such crazy articles might be prevented... ok im done i think ~*D ps~im RC btw, for anyone who cares (since this is an OC forum, figured i'd put that out there) peace |
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hmmmm...
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Vicki
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2003, 12:29:07 AM » |
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Welcome....we welcome Tolkien fans...and have several RC members...all are welcome!
Vicki
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« Last Edit: December 31, 2003, 12:29:36 AM by Vicki »
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2003, 12:29:26 AM » |
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and let me add that the underlying point of my above post is that there is nothing racist about any of it, simply that the fact that he distinguishes between the west and the rest of middle earth is based in authorial intent, and harmless intent, not malicious in any way... i LOVE tolkien sooooo much btw...ok now im done |
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hmmmm...
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David
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2003, 12:39:15 AM » |
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Donna Rose, We are in agreement. Welcome, by the way. What anime is your avatar from? It does not look familiar. |
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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
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Vicki
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2003, 12:39:58 AM » |
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Oh Heavens, we all KNOW that....we are well read in Middle Earth! :bounce:
See also: Lord of the ROAC, Thou art Peter Jackson....etc....
And...don't forget to mention your favorite drink...
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2003, 12:46:49 AM » |
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vicki: stop trying to make the Newbies into lushes!!  |
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2003, 12:54:24 AM » |
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Not remotely...just reminding them...everyone ELSE mentioned favorites....
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2003, 01:00:07 AM » |
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EGADS vicki!! I just noticed that you're an ELDER. now that's a scarry thought!!
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2003, 01:01:51 AM » |
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well i only mentioned it caz no1 else did :-p i dont know what anime my avatar is from, i just found it at a site w/ angel images, which i love and my favorite drink...i dont really drink ::gasp from crowd:: altho i tried some white zinfadel wine at a christmas party, and i liked and thank u all for the welcome |
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hmmmm...
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the slave
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2003, 04:32:21 AM » |
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EGADS vicki!! I just noticed that you're an ELDER. now that's a scarry thought!!
Br. Max Since when did you stop noticing things like that ?? Where have you been ? She has been an Elder for -- oooooooooooooh ages now - and performs all fucntions with grace and charm. Her aim with the Bastooni is superb. Hi Donna - welcome to the madhouse. I must apologise for all the maddies here - many threads turn to the discussions of what we enjoy calling the ' finer things in life '. You'll get used to us - and our bad habits  in time - I hope |
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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2003, 03:28:48 PM » |
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slave: silly, I never stop noticing that she was OLD or for the Brits here present OLDE, but to make an ELDER out of her?? EGADS talk about desperation!!
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2003, 03:39:59 PM » |
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Brother Max has been changing diapers in Ohio. Forgive him the lapse.
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Vicki
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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2003, 03:40:13 PM » |
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ONCE.
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2003, 03:43:28 PM » |
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Does OC.net have a method in place for impeaching elders? Say for being crazy over emotional bags of estrogen??
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2003, 03:45:42 PM » |
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Sorry? We DON'T forgive you the lapse? Or you just don't wanna admit to the thread you posted about babysitting?
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Vicki
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2003, 03:46:37 PM » |
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As Elder, I hereby banish Brother Max to a meall of snails before Vigil.
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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the slave
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2003, 04:25:54 PM » |
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Yes - good idea - great fat juicy green SNAILS !!
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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
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Jakub
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2003, 04:39:22 PM » |
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Vicki vs Bro. Max ?
Brings to mind some Beatles music,
Maxwells Silver Hammer ....................
Happiness is a Warm Gun especially " Mother Superior jumped the gun.
Bro. Max I'm in your corner
james
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2004, 07:15:42 PM » |
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vicki: I'll eat snails when you marry a GREEK PRIEST!! |
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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the slave
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« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2004, 07:18:00 PM » |
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clever that Br Max -- good one |
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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2004, 07:24:31 PM » |
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BESIDES, I'm a Paulist. Suffer NOT women to be OVER men. You can't order me ta do NUFFIN!! |
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2004, 07:30:02 PM » |
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vicki: I'll eat snails when you marry a GREEK PRIEST!! Sighing for the IGNORANCE of this post...Orthodox men can only marry they are ordained. Once a man is ordained, he cannot marry. Orthodox priests cannot marry. Married men can become Orthodox priests. Having excused the Spawn of Lucifer on this one.... HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE I MARRY A GREEK. |
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2004, 07:32:29 PM » |
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vicki: I know the rules for marriage and priests in the OC. Its one of the few things I did thoroughly know before I joined this forum since I had to do some research on the subject. THAT BEING SAID - I did not error in my statement. And I’ll eat snails AFTER you marry a Greek Priest. |
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2004, 07:33:36 PM by Br. Max, OFC »
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Jakub
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« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2004, 07:32:57 PM » |
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Me thinks that alcohol consumption began a might early yesterday for me, just some random sampling of course.
I was singing along with the White Album while posting yesterday, very very not my usual behavior.
james
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
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Vicki
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« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2004, 07:34:48 PM » |
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Br. Max: OK...So you were just being provoking. Nothing unusual THERE Repeat: HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE I MARRY A GREEK |
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Vicki
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« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2004, 07:37:08 PM » |
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Note: Can someone arrange at OC.Net Summerfest to Give Bro. Max a few Long Island Iced Teas....THEN feed him snails....
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2004, 07:38:22 PM » |
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vicki: Br. Max has not been drunk in almost 20 years. Won't happen. And you could NEVER get me drunk enough to eat snails!!  |
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2004, 08:00:06 PM » |
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Sounds like a challenge......
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2004, 08:12:05 PM » |
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vicki: others have tried and failed. I have no desire to get or be drunk. I hate it. hate the feeling. hate not being able to think. hate the hangover. hate puking more than just about anything in life . . . . . won't happen.
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2004, 08:21:11 PM » |
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Just kidding, Br. Max. Men who can't hold their liquor have no business drinking anyway. The same applies, of course, with more force, to ladies.
I shudder that some people drink to the point that the little worm in the bottom of the tequila bottle looks good enough to eat....
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
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« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2004, 08:40:44 PM » |
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vicki: Are you saying I can't hold my liquor??? I'll have you know I used to have a very high tolerance for booze. I drank quite regularly as a youth (trying to drown my sorrows) but never to the point of drunkenness. I always know when to quit. |
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2004, 08:49:48 PM » |
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Know when to quit...yes, perhaps we should quit this thread.
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
Elder
Offline
Posts: 1,418
ECCE HOMO
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« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2004, 09:05:01 PM » |
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funny how every time a topic gets exhausted we end up talking about food and/or booze!! lol
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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Vicki
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« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2004, 09:19:08 PM » |
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Then someone brings up snails....and they are a more serious cause of schism than any doctrinal differences.
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2004, 09:19:42 PM by Vicki »
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"Him whom the heavenly hosts glorify and before Whom Cherubim and Seraphim tremble, let every breath and all creation praise, bless and exalt throughout all ages."
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