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Author Topic: Partying -- Is it un-Christian?  (Read 8992 times) Average Rating: 0
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88Devin12
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« on: February 01, 2010, 01:43:37 AM »

I've been wondering this for months now, and haven't taken the time to talk with my Priest about it (I will eventually). I wanted to get everyones opinion on here...

Partying, is it an un-Christian thing? Or is it just my former Protestantism creeping up behind me like a boogeyman?

I know getting drunk is a sin, and it's something I certainly do not enjoy. But I do enjoying drinking with my friends and hanging out with them.

However, is there a point where it crosses the line? When I go to real parties, with dozens of people dancing, loud music, etc... I almost feel like I'm doing something wrong by just being there. Yet, I haven't actually done anything I thought was sinful.
Is dancing (that is, not just by yourself but with others, esp. w/ someone of the opp. sex) really a bad thing? I know certain kinds of dancing would be innapropriate, but not all kinds of dancing would be wrong would it?

The friends I live with aren't Orthodox, but are Christian, though they don't attend Church. One of the comments one of them made has stuck with me, referring to a recently-emerging Pop artist, one of them commented "I would love to party with her"... I thought about it, and that comment didn't have anything in or behind it that had a double meaning to it. They just thought that girl would be fun to be at a party with. (as in, probably would make it more fun, the life of the party) I began to question if partying is such a horrible thing (as I always felt was the portrayal when I was a Protestant)

I know we must control ourselves and prepare ourselves for the end. But should we do so and then ignore the life we have now? I can understand monastics dedicating their whole lives to it, but some of us have chosen to live amongst the world (without being of it). Is it wrong to want to have fun (though the fun i'm describing is not sinful), or should we be serious and uptight all the time?

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

In Christ,
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 01:50:05 AM »

I've been wondering this for months now, and haven't taken the time to talk with my Priest about it (I will eventually). I wanted to get everyones opinion on here...

Partying, is it an un-Christian thing? Or is it just my former Protestantism creeping up behind me like a boogeyman?

I know getting drunk is a sin, and it's something I certainly do not enjoy. But I do enjoying drinking with my friends and hanging out with them.

However, is there a point where it crosses the line? When I go to real parties, with dozens of people dancing, loud music, etc... I almost feel like I'm doing something wrong by just being there. Yet, I haven't actually done anything I thought was sinful.
Is dancing (that is, not just by yourself but with others, esp. w/ someone of the opp. sex) really a bad thing? I know certain kinds of dancing would be innapropriate, but not all kinds of dancing would be wrong would it?

The friends I live with aren't Orthodox, but are Christian, though they don't attend Church. One of the comments one of them made has stuck with me, referring to a recently-emerging Pop artist, one of them commented "I would love to party with her"... I thought about it, and that comment didn't have anything in or behind it that had a double meaning to it. They just thought that girl would be fun to be at a party with. (as in, probably would make it more fun, the life of the party) I began to question if partying is such a horrible thing (as I always felt was the portrayal when I was a Protestant)

I know we must control ourselves and prepare ourselves for the end. But should we do so and then ignore the life we have now? I can understand monastics dedicating their whole lives to it, but some of us have chosen to live amongst the world (without being of it). Is it wrong to want to have fun (though the fun i'm describing is not sinful), or should we be serious and uptight all the time?

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

In Christ,
Define what you mean by partying.

If you are drinking and not getting drunk, no sin is involved.  And as far as getting drunk, the comments of the chief waiter show that Christ changed the water into wine after they had passed that point.  Getting drunk resulting in fists coming out or clothes coming off is another, obvious, matter.  Getting behind the wheel of a car is another, obvious, issue.
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 01:57:55 AM »

partying, as in going to a "party" where there are lots of people (or even not so many), with music, dancing, etc...
However I'm not describing a old-school party with slow-dancing. I'm thinking of more modern parties, most of these parties consist of a range of vulgar dancing (obviously not an ok thing) to simple "dancing" (moving around dance-like or jumping up and down)...

(also, when I talk about "getting drunk" usually it's the point where you lose self-control, and can't consciously defend against Satan and the demons)
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 02:13:05 AM »

I'd just stay home. College parties are lame anyway if you're not looking to get lucky.  I've always preferred a quiet evening on the porch with a couple of good friends.  That's when it's nice to break out the beers and tobacco and have some real conversations.
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 02:34:12 AM »

Yes. Using the word "party" as verb is not only Unchristian, its bad English.
Attending a party is fine.
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 03:01:45 AM »

Didn't the Lord attend a party or two; one so shocking that the Pharisees were aghast?
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 09:38:30 AM »

Do these activities (or perhaps the overabundance of them) bother YOU personally, or are you more concerned about the judgement of others?

Lent is quickly approaching. Maybe a time to back off and get a new perspective, ideally with your priest's help in confession.

Pray for me that I will do the same with the issues I contend with.
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 10:34:25 AM »

I once asked my priest this question, he replied by asking something like "What impact does it have on your spiritual life?" I still enjoy going for a drink with friends, but have tended to stay away from big parties or nightclubs since then.

Asking yourself a similar question before you decide to go somewhere might be helpful. Defining something as definitely sinful or definitely acceptable is perhaps too black and white.
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 11:49:38 AM »

I think it's more a fear of judgement from others. Also it's just a general fear of whether it's wrong or not. Some Orthodox readings I've read have kind of come across as suggesting we all have to be like monastics and should focus soley on our spiritual lives and prayer.
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 12:18:40 PM »

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 12:38:20 PM »

Thank you,
I keep pretty good control of myself when I'm partying/drinking. In fact, if I ever cross the line into drunkenness, I end my party and walk home. (unless i'm already home, then I go to bed, or lock myself in my room until I sober up)

But as I said, even if I do make the mistake of getting drunk, I never do anything that could harm others since I recognize my state and usually will then stop my partying.

I guess it's just the fact that before coming to college, I never attended parties, never socialized outside of school, and just sat on my butt playing video games alone. I always felt like I should be "more mature" than people my own age and saw partying as being below myself.
However, since coming to college, I've felt like I was trying to grow up too fast. I have started to feel like I was being too monk-like and that there wasn't a need for me to be so uptight and serious all the time.
I don't want to miss possibly the funnest period of life by just sitting around and trying to emulate monasticism, or by isolating myself in my own world...
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 12:45:23 PM »

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.

What about when St. Paul advises us to not do something that might cause our brother to stumble? 
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 12:52:34 PM »

also, I've also been concerned whether I was transgressing because I've begun to care more about my appearance, I've dressed more "fashionably" (that is, instead of simply always wearing plain t-shirts and jeans) and have been trying to build up muscle, etc... I don't think I'm being vain, but I feel like for the most part, it makes things much easier, not just health wise, but in getting people to respect you and (I'll just be honest here) getting girls to notice you more.
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2010, 01:04:43 PM »

Well, I can't see anything wrong with you desiring to dress nicely or work out. God created us to desire to be attractive to the opposite sex, and, as long as you don't obssess over your appearance too much, or hate yourself because you aren't totally satisfied with your looks, then I can't see anything wrong with wanting to appear attractive to the girls. It's a normal part of human existence.

As for the wild parties and clubbing etc. which goes on-the Bible does also say to "avoid all appearance of evil" and that we are not to be "unequally yoked with unbelievers". There are dangers perhaps, that these things will lead us away from God, and this is how I was taught most strictly too. But I now live with unbelieveable sadness and regrets at having missed out on those happy, carefree years.

But then again, there are other things which can lead us away from God-reading books can do it, participating on religious forums can do it.  Wink

Perhaps if you can participate in these things using wisdom and moderation, it would be safe. The worldly part of me doesn't want you to miss out on maximizing these precious, youthful years while you have them. They are too fleeting, too precious...

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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2010, 03:31:38 PM »

I don't know about you, but I'm just as likely to sin sitting at home alone as I am at a party with friends... perhaps more so.  Going out and having a few drinks with friends is not a bad thing unless there is something else going on.  I wouldn't even worry about whether they are Christian or not.  I don't see why that matters. 
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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2010, 03:26:08 AM »

Is partying a sin?

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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2010, 06:54:31 AM »

I'd just stay home. College parties are lame anyway if you're not looking to get lucky.  I've always preferred a quiet evening on the porch with a couple of good friends.  That's when it's nice to break out the beers and tobacco and have some real conversations.

Agreed!

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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2010, 07:34:34 AM »

Didn't the Lord attend a party or two; one so shocking that the Pharisees were aghast?

Crikey! Jesus' first miracle was to make sure that the party didn't stop for lack of wine!
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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2010, 08:14:23 AM »

Didn't the Lord attend a party or two; one so shocking that the Pharisees were aghast?

Crikey! Jesus' first miracle was to make sure that the party didn't stop for lack of wine!


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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2010, 09:22:41 AM »

If "partying" means self-indulgence of the fleshly passions, then it should be jettisoned from our lifestyle. If "partying" means enjoying some of the God-ordained pleasures of life in a God-ordained context, then by all means "party." But be aware that satan prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking to pervert God-authored joys and turn them into sinful activities. And also be aware that those with whom you are "partying" may not necessarily be concerned about your own spiritual welfare. Temptation is everywhere, so try to surround yourself with those who love God and desire righteousness. As St. Paul said, "Bad company corrupts good morals." [I Corinthians 15:33]


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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 11:44:05 AM »

Thank you,
I keep pretty good control of myself when I'm partying/drinking. In fact, if I ever cross the line into drunkenness, I end my party and walk home. (unless i'm already home, then I go to bed, or lock myself in my room until I sober up)

But as I said, even if I do make the mistake of getting drunk, I never do anything that could harm others since I recognize my state and usually will then stop my partying.

I guess it's just the fact that before coming to college, I never attended parties, never socialized outside of school, and just sat on my butt playing video games alone. I always felt like I should be "more mature" than people my own age and saw partying as being below myself.
However, since coming to college, I've felt like I was trying to grow up too fast. I have started to feel like I was being too monk-like and that there wasn't a need for me to be so uptight and serious all the time.
I don't want to miss possibly the funnest period of life by just sitting around and trying to emulate monasticism, or by isolating myself in my own world...

It's very difficult to attain the right balance.   Good for you for making the effort to do what is right, on all levels.  I hope it is possible for you to connect with some slightly older devout Orthodox people who have young families and who remember difficulties they might have had in their college days....I think this might be a big help.  Just a suggestion you may or may not want to consider.
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2010, 11:45:30 AM »

If you believe that parties are drawing you away from God, you obviously have to cut them down.

Didn't the Lord attend a party or two; one so shocking that the Pharisees were aghast?
He didn't got drunk nor committed adultery (in such case, fornication) nor ate like a hungry beast nor hurt made fun of anyone. He only talked in a strange and kinda insulting way to the Theotokos. Tongue

This thread reminded me of a party I was nearly a year ago. I was just chatting here and there (as usual,since I'm not dancing at all) and then I just happened to ask a girl of my age "Are you a nationalist?" and then she replied "No, but I love my country, that's not chauvinism.". Then I asked her is she's an Orthodox - turned out to be a very devoted one. We were both so happy that we found another Orthodox (who was actually somehow into theology and wasn't an Orthodox just because it's a part of his culture). Random questions can be fun.

Well, being in a place with friends is not a sin. But what about being in a place where most are sinning? It is safer to stay away.
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2010, 11:49:11 AM »


I'm not sure I would make the statement that Christ's first miracle took place in order to prolong a "party".  As I understand it, it took place because His mother asked Him to help...and being the good Son, he could not deny His mother.  He even said it was not yet, His time.

When I go over this in class with the kids, I always make an emphasis of this being an excellent example of "respect your mother and father".

As for the partying...I am not much of a party animal, myself.  I've just never been into being "cool"....and I find pleasure and satisfaction in other activities.

However, on the odd occasion that I find myself at a party I often leave feeling deflated.  I constantly find myself trying to bite my tongue not to say something.  I do not drink.  I have seen what too much drink can do to a person, and those around them.  Besides, I have never understood the need to get a "buzz on" in order to enjoy yourself.  If in the morning you can't remember the fun you had last night...then what was the point?  I would rather have fun, and remember it for the rest of my days.

Plus, when you are around folks who have drunk too much...you get to see the not so pleasant side of them.  I would rather not see that side, and leave those folks in my mind the way I imagine them to be.  I have often been surprised by how people act when they are a bit less inhibited...and it hurts me to see that side of them.

Plus...the dancing....I love to dance...but, I like the "old fashioned" dancing...not this modern exercise session.  The last "dance" I was at, I was floored to see how some of our adult women behaved and gyrated.  Scandalous!   Wink   Of course when the arkan (line type of dance, with everyone holding hands and running around...) began....to Ukrainian music.....I couldn't stop my feet from running fast enough and joining in.  We ended up going around the entire hall, then doubled in on ourselves...ended up with three separate circles going - middle one going opposite direction from outside ones...with a girl spinning like a top in the middle.  That was grand fun!  Everyone was laughing and simply enjoying themselves!

Plus, I would rather not be there when invariably the conversation turns to off color jokes, etc.  If you don't join in on the ribbing, then you seem to be the odd man out and to spoil the fun for everyone.  I don't want to participate....and yet, at times you can't help but find some of them funny...and take part.  Then of course, I go home feeling bad that I laughed at these "bad" jokes.  Make sense?

On the other hand, if "party" means a bunch of good friends who gather in someone's living room, have a glass of wine, some snacks, excellent conversation, etc....it's a great way to spend a couple of hours!

I don't think a "party" is un-Christian...however, choose your party carefully.  Remember to always have "Christ before you".  If you would be embarrassed to do it with Him standing next to you...then don't do it (because, in fact, He IS standing next to you.)   Wink

There are many ways to enjoy one's self without doing wrong, tempting others to do wrong, opening oneself to being judged, or to judge others.  When you are around sin...you are tempted to sin...therefore, it's best to keep away from such situations when at all possible.

Now, go out and enjoy your life!   Cheesy



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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 12:46:31 PM »

I'd just stay home. College parties are lame anyway if you're not looking to get lucky.  I've always preferred a quiet evening on the porch with a couple of good friends.  That's when it's nice to break out the beers and tobacco and have some real conversations.

100% true...it's those occasions where you walk away with something.  Parties do get old after a while..for most people anyway.  However, it's not a sin to go and have fun..as long as that 'fun' is within sensible Christian living.  We are not an uptight, anti-social people; Our Lord certainly wasn't.  Orthodox11 summed it up pretty well..if it doesn't affect your spiritual life or, if I may add, keep you from progressing in spirituality, it's ok.

I think it also matters who is going to be there.  If you know there are people there who will probably lead you into sinning, why bother? (or avoid them)  On the other hand, if you want to go and know that it will be a good time that won't damage your soul...go have fun!
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 02:04:11 PM »

I don't think the sin of partying too much ends just with staggering into our beds at dawn.  I find that many people my age (nearly old) compound what might have been the sins of their youth and get a great deal of pleasure recounting how many beers or shots they used to drink, how much weed they smoked, or how debauched they got during Spring Break.  It's like recounting war stories.  You're letting everyone know that no matter how old you look now, you were once "cool".   I certainly can't claim innocence about all the stuff that I've done even in the years well after college, but I think I now realize that we're committing the sin of pride when we reminisce about the "good 'ol days".  You're never as cool as you think you are.  It seemed like delusion then (I agree with Alveus Lacuna - college parties are lame), and for years now I've just preferred the quiet gathering of friends.
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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 02:12:42 PM »

I didn't grow up in this world of "college-parties", so our parties were for the young people of the church-usually either on Friday or Sunday evenings. On Friday evenings we met at a member's home and played games together and had a snack, or we all gathered at an elderly person's home and raked their lawn, cleaned their house,(helping others was hugely emphasized. Rather than merely doing self-gratifying activities we were always encouraged to incorporate thinking of others into our "fun") etc. Another activity we did together was playing volleyball in a member's backyard. On Sunday evenings we often met in someone's home and had a hymnsinging. I always enjoyed that very much. We would sit in a circle and people would take turns choosing a hymn from the hymnal, which would be sung by all.  Afterwards, we would be provided with fingerfood and a drink, provided by the host, or else the young folks would take turns bringing food. Of course, we never smoked,danced, or drank alcohol, because that was forbidden.

Those parties weren't too bad, and gave the young people an opportunity to get to know one another and select future spouses.
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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2010, 02:55:57 PM »

Yes. Using the word "party" as verb is not only Unchristian, its bad English.
Attending a party is fine.

This is exactly the type of fuddy duddy mentality that we should be trying to avoid! Bill and Ted, not to mention Wayne and Garth, have shown us the way... "party on!"
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 03:51:16 PM »

As for the partying...I am not much of a party animal, myself.  I've just never been into being "cool"....and I find pleasure and satisfaction in other activities.

However, on the odd occasion that I find myself at a party I often leave feeling deflated.  I constantly find myself trying to bite my tongue not to say something.  I do not drink.  I have seen what too much drink can do to a person, and those around them.  Besides, I have never understood the need to get a "buzz on" in order to enjoy yourself.  If in the morning you can't remember the fun you had last night...then what was the point?  I would rather have fun, and remember it for the rest of my days.

Plus, when you are around folks who have drunk too much...you get to see the not so pleasant side of them.  I would rather not see that side, and leave those folks in my mind the way I imagine them to be.  I have often been surprised by how people act when they are a bit less inhibited...and it hurts me to see that side of them.

I am not a party animal either, in that I am not comfortable in situations when many people, most of them unknown to me, "mingle" around me. I don't like to converse in these situations, feel bored, lonely.

But I love to drink alcohol. When I drink a few glasses of wine or a couple of shots of hard liquor, I become "lighter," so to say, even physically. I dance, and, according to my wife and daughter - both extremely strict judges of dancing, - I am doing a decent job at that. I also joke and laugh a lot.

A few times in my life I got really drunk, and I regret that very much. But normally I do not display signs of drunkenness when I attend a party.
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 04:36:46 PM »

I become quite funny when I drink.  Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2010, 05:22:47 PM »

I have some family members who don't mix well with alcohol, and I take their behaviour as a serious warning. If I'm drinking and start to feel slightly giddy, I immediately realize it's time to stop and quickly down a lot of water -this always seems to work and prevents me from avoiding extremes (as women, we need to be constantly on the guard of drunkeness, because many unscrupulous men think nothing of taking advantange of a woman in this state).

 However, now due to some health concerns, I stay far away from all alcohol. I did discover some nice non-alcoholic white wine at the local Ukrainian deli which I highly recommend.
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2010, 06:02:38 PM »

Look and listen
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2010, 06:14:23 PM »

Look and listen

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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2010, 06:24:25 PM »

Drinking is bad, just look at this:
http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm

St Maximos the Confessor says that Drunkenness is  a 'evil ecstacy'

37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.

St Maximos the Confessor Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice Second Century
Philokalia vol II

The whole book of Philokalia is on this website, I figured out how to unlock it so I can print it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Zu6&q=philokalia+st+michael&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Just click on the first site and it will download.

Beware of reading these books without a spiritual father to guide you.

They are very very advanced in alot of the writings.

But the knowledge contained in them is so marlevous.

1Cor. 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

One of the greatest books ever created.

Read with caution.

With love, In Christ

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There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.”

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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2010, 06:33:14 PM »

Here we go.
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« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2010, 06:43:57 PM »

Here we go.

laugh

The last couple posts have inspired me to open up a bottle of wine.  Cheers!
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« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2010, 06:57:28 PM »

Drinking is bad, just look at this:
http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm

St Maximos the Confessor says that Drunkenness is  a 'evil ecstacy'

37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.

St Maximos the Confessor Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice Second Century
Philokalia vol II

The whole book of Philokalia is on this website, I figured out how to unlock it so I can print it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Zu6&q=philokalia+st+michael&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Just click on the first site and it will download.

Beware of reading these books without a spiritual father to guide you.

They are very very advanced in alot of the writings.

But the knowledge contained in them is so marlevous.

1Cor. 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

One of the greatest books ever created.

Read with caution.

With love, In Christ



As you assuming that every time someone drinks wine they become wildly inebriated and sin?
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« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2010, 07:03:33 PM »

Quote
drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy

I wouldn't call drunkenness an "evil...ecstasy". Maybe an at times dangerous one, but not "evil".
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« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2010, 07:27:01 PM »

Yes. Using the word "party" as verb is not only Unchristian, its bad English.
Attending a party is fine.

 laugh laugh

I love you OzGeorge.  Kiss
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« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2010, 07:34:46 PM »

Yes. Using the word "party" as verb is not only Unchristian, its bad English.
Attending a party is fine.

 laugh laugh

I love you OzGeorge.  Kiss

I love him, too, but I believe the norms of the English language change. When I started as a postdoc in Dr. Carol Nottenburg's lab in 1991, she told me and other postdocs that there is no such verb in the English language as 'to sequence" - you have to say "to determine the sequence of nucleotides." Now, in the 2000's, they use the verb "to sequence" even in biology textbooks. Also, everybody knows that there exist such English verbs as "to google" and "to facebook" (I even heard, "he is facebookstalking me"), so why not "to party?"
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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2010, 08:29:03 PM »

Yes. Using the word "party" as verb is not only Unchristian, its bad English.
Attending a party is fine.

 laugh laugh

I love you OzGeorge.  Kiss

I love him, too, but I believe the norms of the English language change. When I started as a postdoc in Dr. Carol Nottenburg's lab in 1991, she told me and other postdocs that there is no such verb in the English language as 'to sequence" - you have to say "to determine the sequence of nucleotides." Now, in the 2000's, they use the verb "to sequence" even in biology textbooks. Also, everybody knows that there exist such English verbs as "to google" and "to facebook" (I even heard, "he is facebookstalking me"), so why not "to party?"

I think "party" as a verb is okay, but dictionaries are not always a reliable guide to good English. For example, the word "irregardless" can now be found in most dictionaries. And some things should just never be accepted, no matter how venerable they are, like the use of "they" as a singular generic pronoun.
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« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2010, 09:09:53 PM »

Quote
drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy

I wouldn't call drunkenness an "evil...ecstasy". Maybe an at times dangerous one, but not "evil".

Our Holy Saint, Maximus the Confessor says it is an 'Evil Ecstacy'.

Are you calling him a liar?

He is the truth, because he has been divinely enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

It is evil because it is not natural, your basically poisoning yourself when you drink too much of it.

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“The testimonies of the western teachers I neither recognize or accept. I surmise that they are corrupted.
There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.”

St Mark Of Ephesus, Doctor of the church. (True Church)

Down with ecumenism!
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« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2010, 09:14:53 PM »

Drinking is bad, just look at this:
http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm

St Maximos the Confessor says that Drunkenness is  a 'evil ecstacy'

37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.

St Maximos the Confessor Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice Second Century
Philokalia vol II

The whole book of Philokalia is on this website, I figured out how to unlock it so I can print it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Zu6&q=philokalia+st+michael&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Just click on the first site and it will download.

Beware of reading these books without a spiritual father to guide you.

They are very very advanced in alot of the writings.

But the knowledge contained in them is so marlevous.

1Cor. 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

One of the greatest books ever created.

Read with caution.

With love, In Christ



As you assuming that every time someone drinks wine they become wildly inebriated and sin?

Drinking alcohol is not a sin.

But the misuse of it is.

If you drink it because you must feel intoxicated, then it is evil.

In all things misuse is a sin.

its just like eating when not necessary, or any other sin.

When you only use it for pleasure, and you do not have a good reason like a health problem, then it is sin.

Because you are only using it for pleasure, and not for what is was created for.

And that is evil.
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“The testimonies of the western teachers I neither recognize or accept. I surmise that they are corrupted.
There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.”

St Mark Of Ephesus, Doctor of the church. (True Church)

Down with ecumenism!
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« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2010, 09:20:10 PM »

So if I eat for pleasure I'm sinning? If I listen to music for pleasure am I sinning? If I drink wine for pleasure am I sinning?
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« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2010, 09:24:16 PM »

Drinking is bad, just look at this:
http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm

St Maximos the Confessor says that Drunkenness is  a 'evil ecstacy'

37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.

St Maximos the Confessor Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice Second Century
Philokalia vol II

The whole book of Philokalia is on this website, I figured out how to unlock it so I can print it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Zu6&q=philokalia+st+michael&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Just click on the first site and it will download.

Beware of reading these books without a spiritual father to guide you.

They are very very advanced in alot of the writings.

But the knowledge contained in them is so marlevous.

1Cor. 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

One of the greatest books ever created.

Read with caution.

With love, In Christ



As you assuming that every time someone drinks wine they become wildly inebriated and sin?

Drinking alcohol is not a sin.

But the misuse of it is.

If you drink it because you must feel intoxicated, then it is evil.

In all things misuse is a sin.

its just like eating when not necessary, or any other sin.

When you only use it for pleasure, and you do not have a good reason like a health problem, then it is sin.

Because you are only using it for pleasure, and not for what is was created for.

And that is evil.

But you start your post above with "Drinking is bad". So really what you meant to say was that "Drinking to excess, to get drunk is bad"? As regards to not drinking for pleasure, it would appear that those gathered for the wedding at Cana were drinking for pleasure to share the joy of the newly married, not because of any health problems.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 09:24:51 PM by Riddikulus » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2010, 09:25:23 PM »

No.  I'm assuming you know that.  Sometimes it's not so hard to see the line between logic, and delusion/obsession.  
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