Author Topic: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?  (Read 6195 times)

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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2011, 02:19:33 PM »
^The only problem I might have lifting off Leo's anathema is that I think some EOs will start using the language found in his Tome (I.e. "the Word does this while the flesh does that"). I do not mind them venerating him per se.

In any case, I do not think Maximus' theology is all that problematic. From what I have read about him he seems orthodox.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 02:19:54 PM by Severian »
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Offline William

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2011, 02:27:45 PM »
^The only problem I might have lifting off Leo's anathema is that I think some EOs will start using the language found in his Tome (I.e. "the Word does this while the flesh does that"). I do not mind them venerating him per se.
EOs already do use that language.

Did you mean that you're afraid OOs will start doing it?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 02:28:02 PM by William »
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2011, 02:28:52 PM »
I do have some problems with Maximus not least because I think he failed to understand the Orthodox miathelite position and that all those who speak of one will are tarred with the same brush. I think he prevented a proper reconciliation taking place.
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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2011, 02:29:34 PM »
^The only problem I might have lifting off Leo's anathema is that I think some EOs will start using the language found in his Tome (I.e. "the Word does this while the flesh does that"). I do not mind them venerating him per se.
EOs already do use that language.

Did you mean that you're afraid OOs will start doing it?
I am afraid they will use that language WHILE being united to our Church. Thus, the OOC might be influenced by Leonian Christology.
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2011, 02:30:34 PM »
I do have some problems with Maximus not least because I think he failed to understand the Orthodox miathelite position and that all those who speak of one will are tarred with the same brush. I think he prevented a proper reconciliation taking place.
I do realize that he hindered reconciliation. But would you say that his Christology itself was substantially orthodox?
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2011, 02:34:42 PM »
I think that the christology of the post-553 Chalcedonians is generally and substantially Orthodox enough. The are other issues which have prevented reunion.
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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2011, 02:38:11 PM »
^As I have mentioned in my Nine Chapters thread, had some Chalcedonians accepted equally orthodox modes of christological expression without rigidly insisting on a duality of natures, wills, and energies in Christ we probably would have reunited a long time ago. It would seem as if the Melkite Patr. Cyrus believed in the Pseudo-Dionysian Formula "one theandric energy", rather than a heretical form of monoenergism.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 02:40:52 PM by Severian »
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2011, 04:23:35 PM »
I am just about to start reading Will, Action and Freedom - Christological Controversies in the Seventh Century by Cyril Hovorun.

I hope that it will be an interesting read.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »
had some non-Chalcedonians accepted equally orthodox modes of christological expression without rigidly insisting on a singularity of natures, wills, and energies in Christ we probably would have reunited a long time ago.
:D
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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2011, 05:58:03 PM »
had some non-Chalcedonians accepted equally orthodox modes of christological expression without rigidly insisting on a singularity of natures, wills, and energies in Christ we probably would have reunited a long time ago.
:D
Touche! :laugh:
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2011, 06:18:18 PM »
Unfortunately the issue was always the status of Chalcedon since agreement could be reached on the substance of the faith.
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