Author Topic: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?  (Read 8363 times)

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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2011, 02:19:33 PM »
^The only problem I might have lifting off Leo's anathema is that I think some EOs will start using the language found in his Tome (I.e. "the Word does this while the flesh does that"). I do not mind them venerating him per se.

In any case, I do not think Maximus' theology is all that problematic. From what I have read about him he seems orthodox.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 02:19:54 PM by Severian »
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Offline William

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2011, 02:27:45 PM »
^The only problem I might have lifting off Leo's anathema is that I think some EOs will start using the language found in his Tome (I.e. "the Word does this while the flesh does that"). I do not mind them venerating him per se.
EOs already do use that language.

Did you mean that you're afraid OOs will start doing it?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 02:28:02 PM by William »
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2011, 02:28:52 PM »
I do have some problems with Maximus not least because I think he failed to understand the Orthodox miathelite position and that all those who speak of one will are tarred with the same brush. I think he prevented a proper reconciliation taking place.
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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2011, 02:29:34 PM »
^The only problem I might have lifting off Leo's anathema is that I think some EOs will start using the language found in his Tome (I.e. "the Word does this while the flesh does that"). I do not mind them venerating him per se.
EOs already do use that language.

Did you mean that you're afraid OOs will start doing it?
I am afraid they will use that language WHILE being united to our Church. Thus, the OOC might be influenced by Leonian Christology.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2011, 02:30:34 PM »
I do have some problems with Maximus not least because I think he failed to understand the Orthodox miathelite position and that all those who speak of one will are tarred with the same brush. I think he prevented a proper reconciliation taking place.
I do realize that he hindered reconciliation. But would you say that his Christology itself was substantially orthodox?
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2011, 02:34:42 PM »
I think that the christology of the post-553 Chalcedonians is generally and substantially Orthodox enough. The are other issues which have prevented reunion.
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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2011, 02:38:11 PM »
^As I have mentioned in my Nine Chapters thread, had some Chalcedonians accepted equally orthodox modes of christological expression without rigidly insisting on a duality of natures, wills, and energies in Christ we probably would have reunited a long time ago. It would seem as if the Melkite Patr. Cyrus believed in the Pseudo-Dionysian Formula "one theandric energy", rather than a heretical form of monoenergism.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 02:40:52 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2011, 04:23:35 PM »
I am just about to start reading Will, Action and Freedom - Christological Controversies in the Seventh Century by Cyril Hovorun.

I hope that it will be an interesting read.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »
had some non-Chalcedonians accepted equally orthodox modes of christological expression without rigidly insisting on a singularity of natures, wills, and energies in Christ we probably would have reunited a long time ago.
:D
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Offline Severian

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2011, 05:58:03 PM »
had some non-Chalcedonians accepted equally orthodox modes of christological expression without rigidly insisting on a singularity of natures, wills, and energies in Christ we probably would have reunited a long time ago.
:D
Touche! :laugh:
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Is Maximus the Confessor a Saint?
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2011, 06:18:18 PM »
Unfortunately the issue was always the status of Chalcedon since agreement could be reached on the substance of the faith.
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