Author Topic: Contraception  (Read 10955 times)

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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Contraception
« on: January 28, 2010, 02:39:30 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply


« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 02:53:11 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Mickey

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 02:45:42 PM »
Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

What is your point?

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 02:55:56 PM »
Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

What is your point?

What is your particular opinion?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Mickey

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 03:02:05 PM »
What is your particular opinion?

I would convey my thoughts if I understood what it is you are attempting to debate?  ???

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2010, 03:07:07 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2010, 03:07:30 PM »
Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

What is your point?

It seems obvious.   If a man has enough children he has his own personal fighting squad.  They can fight off any neighbours who come to attack them...

3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2010, 03:08:20 PM »
What is your particular opinion?

I would convey my thoughts if I understood what it is you are attempting to debate?  ???

Just let your thoughts show them selves. ¿What do you think about contraception?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ignatius

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 03:09:14 PM »
Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

What is your point?

It seems obvious.   If a man has enough children he has his own personal fighting squad.  They can fight off any neighbours who come to attack them...

3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


I'm gaining one more private for the squad any day now Father!
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 03:13:11 PM »
Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

What is your point?

It seems obvious.   If a man has enough children he has his own personal fighting squad.  They can fight off any neighbours who come to attack them...

3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


I'm gaining one more private for the squad any day now Father!

Good.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 03:15:10 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 03:16:44 PM »
¿Can we read contraception as a principle in new testament? ( just avoid confusion of celibacy and contraception)
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Mickey

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 03:16:54 PM »
Just let your thoughts show them selves. ¿What do you think about contraception?

My thoughts are conducive to a post offered by Fr Ambrose.  I will post it here:

There is a consensus among the Russian, Greek Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches (I cannot speak for the other Churches since I have never had the opportunity to become acquainted with their teaching on this matter.)

The above Orthodox Churches allow contraception when

1.  it is non-abortive

2.  it is for grave and justifiable reasons

3.  it is for a limited time
.........(although health consideration may influence this)

4  it is used with the blessing of the parish priest or spiritual father or mother
.........(although this is not strictly necessary)


Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2010, 03:21:02 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 03:21:39 PM »
Just let your thoughts show them selves. ¿What do you think about contraception?

My thoughts are conducive to a post offered by Fr Ambrose.  I will post it here:

There is a consensus among the Russian, Greek Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches (I cannot speak for the other Churches since I have never had the opportunity to become acquainted with their teaching on this matter.)

The above Orthodox Churches allow contraception when

1.  it is non-abortive

2.  it is for grave and justifiable reasons

3.  it is for a limited time
.........(although health consideration may influence this)

4  it is used with the blessing of the parish priest or spiritual father or mother
.........(although this is not strictly necessary)



But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline GiC

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2010, 03:22:58 PM »
Large numbers of children are economic and military assets in a semi-tribal agrarian society...nothing new there...

Was there another point?
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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2010, 03:23:51 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.

You don't need to be married to take a position, perhaps it will change once you are married but for sure you have one now.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2010, 03:24:42 PM »
Large numbers of children are economic and military assets in a semi-tribal agrarian society...nothing new there...

Was there another point?

The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2010, 03:26:46 PM »
Large numbers of children are economic and military assets in a semi-tribal agrarian society...nothing new there...

And nanny states-someone has to pay the taxes.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2010, 03:27:27 PM »
Large numbers of children are economic and military assets in a semi-tribal agrarian society...nothing new there...

Was there another point?

The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?
Can you oppose naturally to fulfill such a command?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 03:27:51 PM »
Just let your thoughts show them selves. ¿What do you think about contraception?

My thoughts are conducive to a post offered by Fr Ambrose.  I will post it here:

There is a consensus among the Russian, Greek Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches (I cannot speak for the other Churches since I have never had the opportunity to become acquainted with their teaching on this matter.)

The above Orthodox Churches allow contraception when

1.  it is non-abortive

2.  it is for grave and justifiable reasons

3.  it is for a limited time
.........(although health consideration may influence this)

4  it is used with the blessing of the parish priest or spiritual father or mother
.........(although this is not strictly necessary)



But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

God also commanded these people to go to the land of Canaan. Perhaps we should all go there too?
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 03:29:09 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.

You don't need to be married to take a position, perhaps it will change once you are married but for sure you have one now.
You asked my particular opinion about myself. I'm not married at present (although I was), so that is my position.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2010, 03:29:50 PM »
Just let your thoughts show them selves. ¿What do you think about contraception?

My thoughts are conducive to a post offered by Fr Ambrose.  I will post it here:

There is a consensus among the Russian, Greek Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches (I cannot speak for the other Churches since I have never had the opportunity to become acquainted with their teaching on this matter.)

The above Orthodox Churches allow contraception when

1.  it is non-abortive

2.  it is for grave and justifiable reasons

3.  it is for a limited time
.........(although health consideration may influence this)

4  it is used with the blessing of the parish priest or spiritual father or mother
.........(although this is not strictly necessary)



But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

God also commanded these people to go to the land of Canaan. Perhaps we should all go there too?
Been there.  Done that.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2010, 03:30:23 PM »
Just let your thoughts show them selves. ¿What do you think about contraception?

My thoughts are conducive to a post offered by Fr Ambrose.  I will post it here:

There is a consensus among the Russian, Greek Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches (I cannot speak for the other Churches since I have never had the opportunity to become acquainted with their teaching on this matter.)

The above Orthodox Churches allow contraception when

1.  it is non-abortive

2.  it is for grave and justifiable reasons

3.  it is for a limited time
.........(although health consideration may influence this)

4  it is used with the blessing of the parish priest or spiritual father or mother
.........(although this is not strictly necessary)



But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

God also commanded these people to go to the land of Canaan. Perhaps we should all go there too?

I think you are talking about the 12 tribes of Israel, ¿Are you part of that people?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline mike

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2010, 03:31:09 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 03:31:32 PM by mike »
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Offline Mickey

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2010, 03:33:23 PM »
But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

We also know that sometimes there are grave and justifiable reasons to refrain from multiplying for a time (non-abortive measures).  Christ is all merciful and compassionate.

Even your Church condones the use of contraception for special circumstances (NFP). 

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2010, 03:34:13 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.

You don't need to be married to take a position, perhaps it will change once you are married but for sure you have one now.
You asked my particular opinion about myself. I'm not married at present (although I was), so that is my position.

Sorry, about your marriage, but anyway you must have an opinion, either with God or you own. ¿Don't you?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2010, 03:34:55 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2010, 03:35:12 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?
And how do their priests and nuns fulfill the FIRST COMMAND?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2010, 03:35:19 PM »
But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

We also know that sometimes there are grave and justifiable reasons to refrain from multiplying for a time (non-abortive measures).  Christ is all merciful and compassionate.

Even your Church condones the use of contraception for special circumstances (NFP).  

Oh, but that's not real contraception.  ;)
It still provides enough room for God to act.

I suppose you could make the same claim for condoms though, as they are not immune to breakage.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 03:36:01 PM by Bogoliubtsy »
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2010, 03:36:06 PM »
But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

We also know that sometimes there are grave and justifiable reasons to refrain from multiplying for a time (non-abortive measures).  Christ is all merciful and compassionate.

Even your Church condones the use of contraception for special circumstances (NFP). 

In Mexico I never heard of that about Catholic Chuch.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2010, 03:36:13 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.

You don't need to be married to take a position, perhaps it will change once you are married but for sure you have one now.
You asked my particular opinion about myself. I'm not married at present (although I was), so that is my position.

Sorry, about your marriage, but anyway you must have an opinion, either with God or you own. ¿Don't you?
You assume my opinion isn't God's.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2010, 03:36:52 PM »
But the FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

We also know that sometimes there are grave and justifiable reasons to refrain from multiplying for a time (non-abortive measures).  Christ is all merciful and compassionate.

Even your Church condones the use of contraception for special circumstances (NFP).  

Oh, but that's not real contraception.  ;)
It still provides enough room for God to act.

I suppose you could make the same claim for condoms though, as they are not immune to breakage.


MANY can attest to that.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2010, 03:37:31 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?
Depends what you are into I guess.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2010, 03:38:19 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 03:40:40 PM by mike »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Mickey

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2010, 03:39:06 PM »
In Mexico I never heard of that about Catholic Chuch.

Time to study.  ;D

Offline Marc1152

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2010, 03:46:35 PM »
Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

What is your point?

It seems obvious.   If a man has enough children he has his own personal fighting squad.  They can fight off any neighbours who come to attack them...

3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.


You may not have heard about this in New Zealand but we had a deadly sniper in my neighborhood a few years ago ( John Allen Muhammad). I have a bit of military training so we taught the kids "Skirmish drill" running and then flopping down on the ground and signally the next person to run past you, flop down, repeat until you all get across the field.. It's a sort of a leap frog affair..

My sweet little daughter would run arms flailing like the little girl she was and then mightily throw herself on the ground giggling. She would forget to signal the next person behind her.The family Army thing didn't work out so good for us :).

The sniper was caught after killing about 13 people over three weeks or so. The State recently sent him to his maker, may God be merciful.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2010, 03:56:00 PM »
In Mexico I never heard of that about Catholic Chuch.

Time to study.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

Protestant couple dialogue afterwards:

"Why do they have so many children?"

"Because every time they have sexual intercourse they have to have a baby."

"But it's the same with us."

"What do you mean?"

"Well we've had sexual intercourse twice and we have two children."

(I actually knew a family, the wife Latin American, who puportedly had sex only three times in 20 years, and had two sons.  Talk about lucky shots).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2010, 04:27:35 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.

You don't need to be married to take a position, perhaps it will change once you are married but for sure you have one now.
You asked my particular opinion about myself. I'm not married at present (although I was), so that is my position.

Sorry, about your marriage, but anyway you must have an opinion, either with God or you own. ¿Don't you?
You assume my opinion isn't God's.

Unless You are God, you don't have God's opinion, but you can have an opinion similar to God's one, as similar as to be the same, but not His.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2010, 04:33:32 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.

In the calendar, you know that it may fail, and you accept concecuences.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2010, 04:34:51 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.

In the calendar, you know that it may fail, and you accept concecuences.

You also know that condoms may fail, or the pill may fail, or withdrawal may fail... so.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2010, 04:37:12 PM »
Genesis 1:27-28

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply ; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."


Psalm 127

1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.




¿What do you think? ¿Is contraception Biblical?

I see in Genesis that The first comand given by God to Man is to Multiply




Well tell Pope Paul to close down all those NFP clinics and tell them to commence with the multiplying.

now we know your thoughts about others, but ¿And you particular opinion about yourself?

I'm not married right now, so I'm all for me not conceiving right now.

You don't need to be married to take a position, perhaps it will change once you are married but for sure you have one now.
You asked my particular opinion about myself. I'm not married at present (although I was), so that is my position.

Sorry, about your marriage, but anyway you must have an opinion, either with God or you own. ¿Don't you?
You assume my opinion isn't God's.

Unless You are God, you don't have God's opinion,

Of course I do.  God's opinion is that the Spirit proceeds from the Father, and that's my opinion too.


Quote
but you can have an opinion similar to God's one, as similar as to be the same, but not His.
The latter is a distinction without a difference.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2010, 04:37:52 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.

In the calendar, you know that it may fail, and you accept concecuences.

You also know that condoms may fail, or the pill may fail, or withdrawal may fail... so.

You will agree with me that such devices are artifitial, wont you?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2010, 04:38:19 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.

In the calendar, you know that it may fail, and you accept concecuences.

Consequences.  My, that's a wonderful way to think of children. >:(
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Quinault

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2010, 04:40:18 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.

In the calendar, you know that it may fail, and you accept concecuences.

The calendar method has a failure rate that is astounding. Women do not ovulate according to a specific timeline.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 04:41:57 PM by Quinault »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2010, 04:41:50 PM »
The FIRST COMMAND from GOD to MAN and WOMAN was to MULTIPLY, Can we opose artificially to fulfill such command?

So why RCs do not have sex each month during the woman's ovulation but count the inbreedy days instead? Do you have sex with your wife any time she has ovulation?

Is that artifitial?

The calendar - no. But it is the violation of God's commandment (as interpreted by you) in the very same way as condoms are.

In the calendar, you know that it may fail, and you accept concecuences.

You also know that condoms may fail, or the pill may fail, or withdrawal may fail... so.

You will agree with me that such devices are artifitial, wont you?
I thought latex was a natural substance from your neck of the woods:


but you can go sheep skin, which is also natural.

Lord knows what they put in those pills.  If it is herbs, would that be OK?

Withdrawal....same equipment, different procedure.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth