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Author Topic: Portions of Vespers omitted for Great Lent?  (Read 878 times) Average Rating: 0
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Shlomlokh
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« on: February 18, 2010, 11:45:08 AM »

I noticed on the website of the Antiochian Diocese of Los Angeles and the West for their Vespers service for this weekend they omitted "Blessed is the Man." Is this a normal occurrence or a "blip in the system?" Are certain prayers/hymns taken out during Great Lent? If so, what is the significance of taking out this particular prayer? Are there others that are omitted as well?

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Andrew
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2010, 12:12:51 PM »

I think you only sing that for vigils and saints "with Polyeleos", not other times; so, it's not an omission.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2010, 03:31:37 PM »

I think you only sing that for vigils and saints "with Polyeleos", not other times; so, it's not an omission.
I'm not sure you're correct.  The PDF to which Shlomlokh posted a link is for Great Vespers of the Sunday of Orthodoxy, to be read this Saturday evening.  According to the Russian tradition I know, "Blessed is the man..." is sung as the Kathisma for all Saturday Vespers services, as well as for the Vespers of many feasts.  I acknowledge the possibility that Antiochian practice is different, but if not, it's readily apparent to me that this omission of the Saturday evening Kathisma is indeed a "blip in the system".  In fact, this perception is further confirmed by Mother Mary and Metropolitan Kallistos Ware in their translation of the Lenten Triodion.  In their section for the Sunday of Orthodoxy, they offer this introduction to Great Vespers on Saturday Evening:
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After the Psalm of Introduction (Psalm 103) and the Great Litany, we read Blessed is the man (the first kathisma of the Psalter).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:31:56 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 03:35:21 PM »

I noticed on the website of the Antiochian Diocese of Los Angeles and the West for their Vespers service for this weekend they omitted "Blessed is the Man." Is this a normal occurrence or a "blip in the system?" Are certain prayers/hymns taken out during Great Lent? If so, what is the significance of taking out this particular prayer? Are there others that are omitted as well?

In Christ,
Andrew
Are you curious solely about Saturday Vespers, or about Daily Vespers, as well?  The structural differences between the two are quite noticeable even outside of Lent.
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augustin717
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 03:43:53 PM »

I think you only sing that for vigils and saints "with Polyeleos", not other times; so, it's not an omission.
I'm not sure you're correct.  The PDF to which Shlomlokh posted a link is for Great Vespers of the Sunday of Orthodoxy, to be read this Saturday evening.  According to the Russian tradition I know, "Blessed is the man..." is sung as the Kathisma for all Saturday Vespers services, as well as for the Vespers of many feasts.  I acknowledge the possibility that Antiochian practice is different, but if not, it's readily apparent to me that this omission of the Saturday evening Kathisma is indeed a "blip in the system".  In fact, this perception is further confirmed by Mother Mary and Metropolitan Kallistos Ware in their translation of the Lenten Triodion.  In their section for the Sunday of Orthodoxy, they offer this introduction to Great Vespers on Saturday Evening:
Quote
After the Psalm of Introduction (Psalm 103) and the Great Litany, we read Blessed is the man (the first kathisma of the Psalter).
My Romanian Small Octoechos says that "Blessed is the man" is only sung when there is a vigil and at the vespers of "a saint with polyeleos".
And "Blessed is the man" is different than the first kathisma, in so far as it nly refers to 6 selected verses from that said kathisma.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 03:51:41 PM »

I think you only sing that for vigils and saints "with Polyeleos", not other times; so, it's not an omission.
I'm not sure you're correct.  The PDF to which Shlomlokh posted a link is for Great Vespers of the Sunday of Orthodoxy, to be read this Saturday evening.  According to the Russian tradition I know, "Blessed is the man..." is sung as the Kathisma for all Saturday Vespers services, as well as for the Vespers of many feasts.  I acknowledge the possibility that Antiochian practice is different, but if not, it's readily apparent to me that this omission of the Saturday evening Kathisma is indeed a "blip in the system".  In fact, this perception is further confirmed by Mother Mary and Metropolitan Kallistos Ware in their translation of the Lenten Triodion.  In their section for the Sunday of Orthodoxy, they offer this introduction to Great Vespers on Saturday Evening:
Quote
After the Psalm of Introduction (Psalm 103) and the Great Litany, we read Blessed is the man (the first kathisma of the Psalter).
My Romanian Small Octoechos says that "Blessed is the man" is only sung when there is a vigil and at the vespers of "a saint with polyeleos".
And "Blessed is the man" is different than the first kathisma, in so far as it nly refers to 6 selected verses from that said kathisma.
But then, doesn't Sunday Matins (the second half of the Saturday Vigil service) always have a polyeleos?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:52:19 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
arimethea
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 04:32:50 PM »

I think what you have come across is an common cut that occurs in Antiochian parish practice, that's it.
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Joseph
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 11:39:23 PM »

We always sing "Blessed is the man" at Saturday Great Vespers.  Maybe it is a BC/ACROD thing.
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 12:00:13 AM »

The reality is that a cut is made at "Blessed is the man" in most parishes. What is called for on Saturday is the 1st section of the 1 Kathismata. I have never seen this done in any parish but instead a group of select verses for the 1st Kathismata is sung.
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 01:13:15 AM »

We (OCA parish, very ethnically Russian/eastern Ukrainian) always sing the select verses of the First Kathismata at Vespers on Saturday evening.
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