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Author Topic: High School Diploma Vs GED  (Read 3169 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: January 20, 2010, 01:33:24 AM »

Out of curiosity, do some people think less of those who have a GED, as compared to those who have a high school diploma? I'm thinking especially of employment situations and the thinking that goes into hiring people, but I'd certainly welcome opinions dealing with other situations as well.
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 02:10:52 AM »

There is no difference IMO.  Shouldn't make any difference to a hiring authority.
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 05:06:50 AM »

I do not think less of those with GED's at all. In fact, it shows that they have the character to persevere and get a GED even if they had struggles in High School. But of course, when it comes to employment, the standards vary according to the job requirements.


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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 08:39:17 AM »

I took the GED in order to leave high school a year early, so my situation is a bit different, but I will say that there were some questions for a couple of years, until I earned my associate's degree. Since then, no one has cared.
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 10:46:24 AM »

I wouldn't "look down" on someone who got the GED - as a supporter of education, it is always better than the alternative (not finishing HS or equivalent).
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 10:49:51 AM »

I've known enough people like Mr. Y who have a GED simply because high school was too slow for them to even consider looking down on anyone with a GED.  I have a pathos of always giving people the benefit of the doubt and thinking the best of them (my father calls it "sucker syndrome") so, until I'm proved wrong, anyone with a GED is smarter than I was in high school...or at least more efficient in getting the heck out of Dodge, so to speak.
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 10:59:14 AM »

First of all, I would not look down on a person with a GED. That being said, I don't have a great deal of faith in standardized tests and I think that it is quite possible to pass the GED exam and miss out on some of the things that a person needed to learn in high school.
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 11:03:24 AM »

First of all, I would not look down on a person with a GED. That being said, I don't have a great deal of faith in standardized tests and I think that it is quite possible to pass the GED exam and miss out on some of the things that a person needed to learn in high school.

But the same could also be said of receiving a high school diploma Wink
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 12:37:31 PM »

Thanks for your thoughts all Smiley  I have a H.S. Diploma, but my Mother had to drop out and get a GED, so I've wondered from time to time about this.
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 02:02:32 PM »

I earned my GED my "sophomore year."  My mother tried to home school for a year and failed. Whether you have a GED or a diploma matters little in comparison to your ability to speak intelligently and fill out paperwork correctly. If an employer has a choice between a high school grad that lacks spelling skills, and a GED holder that knows how to spell, they will choose the GED holder in most cases.

Educators are working hard to make sure that a high school diploma actually means something. But they are working against the tide in some areas of the country. Until the educational system evens out in terms of quality a high school diploma can't be used as the sole proof that one is actually educated.
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 03:26:02 PM »

First of all, I would not look down on a person with a GED. That being said, I don't have a great deal of faith in standardized tests and I think that it is quite possible to pass the GED exam and miss out on some of the things that a person needed to learn in high school.

But the same could also be said of receiving a high school diploma Wink
Agreed.
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 03:26:31 PM »

In this economy I know of people with Bachelors and Masters degrees working in a bakery next door, in a convenience store down the street, etc. In a better economy these questions may come into play, but today I'm seeing many job listings where Bachelors and Masters are a must, even in industries that haven't traditionally either required degrees or held them in that high of regard (e.g. Construction).
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 03:29:13 PM »

I earned my GED my "sophomore year."  My mother tried to home school for a year and failed. Whether you have a GED or a diploma matters little in comparison to your ability to speak intelligently and fill out paperwork correctly. If an employer has a choice between a high school grad that lacks spelling skills, and a GED holder that knows how to spell, they will choose the GED holder in most cases.

Educators are working hard to make sure that a high school diploma actually means something. But they are working against the tide in some areas of the country. Until the educational system evens out in terms of quality a high school diploma can't be used as the sole proof that one is actually educated.
And we are fighting a cultural war here. Since I have started teaching I have noticed that a very large percentage of my students paretents do not hold their children to a very high standard nor do they discipline them at home. So they come to school painfully lazy, knowing full well that their parents care little about their education. Its very difficult to educate that. Then you have the mandates from the state about graduation rates, so students who are unconcerned with their education are pushed through the system. That's why you will occasionally get high school grads who can't read.
When it comes to education, you get out of it what you put in. Unfortunately, very few are willing to put much in.
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2010, 03:45:12 PM »

I earned my GED my "sophomore year."  My mother tried to home school for a year and failed. Whether you have a GED or a diploma matters little in comparison to your ability to speak intelligently and fill out paperwork correctly. If an employer has a choice between a high school grad that lacks spelling skills, and a GED holder that knows how to spell, they will choose the GED holder in most cases.

Educators are working hard to make sure that a high school diploma actually means something. But they are working against the tide in some areas of the country. Until the educational system evens out in terms of quality a high school diploma can't be used as the sole proof that one is actually educated.
And we are fighting a cultural war here. Since I have started teaching I have noticed that a very large percentage of my students paretents do not hold their children to a very high standard nor do they discipline them at home. So they come to school painfully lazy, knowing full well that their parents care little about their education. Its very difficult to educate that. Then you have the mandates from the state about graduation rates, so students who are unconcerned with their education are pushed through the system. That's why you will occasionally get high school grads who can't read.
When it comes to education, you get out of it what you put in. Unfortunately, very few are willing to put much in.

Well, we all need people to mow our lawns, clean our houses, stock the shelves at the local department store, and run a cash register...and there are only so many history and philosophy majors to go around. Wink
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2010, 03:47:35 PM »

I earned my GED my "sophomore year."  My mother tried to home school for a year and failed. Whether you have a GED or a diploma matters little in comparison to your ability to speak intelligently and fill out paperwork correctly. If an employer has a choice between a high school grad that lacks spelling skills, and a GED holder that knows how to spell, they will choose the GED holder in most cases.

Educators are working hard to make sure that a high school diploma actually means something. But they are working against the tide in some areas of the country. Until the educational system evens out in terms of quality a high school diploma can't be used as the sole proof that one is actually educated.
And we are fighting a cultural war here. Since I have started teaching I have noticed that a very large percentage of my students paretents do not hold their children to a very high standard nor do they discipline them at home. So they come to school painfully lazy, knowing full well that their parents care little about their education. Its very difficult to educate that. Then you have the mandates from the state about graduation rates, so students who are unconcerned with their education are pushed through the system. That's why you will occasionally get high school grads who can't read.
When it comes to education, you get out of it what you put in. Unfortunately, very few are willing to put much in.

Well, we all need people to mow our lawns, clean our houses, stock the shelves at the local department store, and run a cash register...and there are only so many history and philosophy majors to go around. Wink
What if we end up with too many lawn mowers, maids, shelve stockers? Or worse, with many uneducated that simply become criminals and eventually wards of the state? Or too many on welfare? What then?
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 03:49:59 PM »

I earned my GED my "sophomore year."  My mother tried to home school for a year and failed. Whether you have a GED or a diploma matters little in comparison to your ability to speak intelligently and fill out paperwork correctly. If an employer has a choice between a high school grad that lacks spelling skills, and a GED holder that knows how to spell, they will choose the GED holder in most cases.

Educators are working hard to make sure that a high school diploma actually means something. But they are working against the tide in some areas of the country. Until the educational system evens out in terms of quality a high school diploma can't be used as the sole proof that one is actually educated.
And we are fighting a cultural war here. Since I have started teaching I have noticed that a very large percentage of my students paretents do not hold their children to a very high standard nor do they discipline them at home. So they come to school painfully lazy, knowing full well that their parents care little about their education. Its very difficult to educate that. Then you have the mandates from the state about graduation rates, so students who are unconcerned with their education are pushed through the system. That's why you will occasionally get high school grads who can't read.
When it comes to education, you get out of it what you put in. Unfortunately, very few are willing to put much in.

Well, we all need people to mow our lawns, clean our houses, stock the shelves at the local department store, and run a cash register...and there are only so many history and philosophy majors to go around. Wink
What if we end up with too many lawn mowers, maids, shelve stockers?

It's basic supply and demand...prices go down!!! Now if we can just get rid of that blasted minimum wage. Wink

Quote
Or worse, with many uneducated that simply become criminals and eventually wards of the state? Or too many on welfare? What then?

More than offset by decriminalizing victimless 'crimes'...but now we're moving dangerously close to politics.
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 03:55:54 PM »

But on a slightly more serious note, I think we'd do far better to provide free college education than trying to force education on unwilling high school students: something along the lines of casting pearls before swine. Maybe what they need is a few years in the real world to figure out that school isn't all that bad after all. Don't force education on people, just keep the opportunity open and don't make it too hard on them to come back, simply because they made a stupid decision when they were 15.
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 07:29:21 PM »

For those of us who are not American, what is a GED?
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2010, 07:42:24 PM »

But on a slightly more serious note, I think we'd do far better to provide free college education than trying to force education on unwilling high school students: something along the lines of casting pearls before swine. Maybe what they need is a few years in the real world to figure out that school isn't all that bad after all. Don't force education on people, just keep the opportunity open and don't make it too hard on them to come back, simply because they made a stupid decision when they were 15.

Excellent suggestion! I believe the State does very wrong in making higher education so difficult for those in less fortunate situations to obtain. And please don't think that because someone dropped out of highschool at 15 that it was always because of their own stupid decision! I have only a tenth grade education not because I didn't have enormously high goals for myself, but because my parents forbid me to go further. I think those blessed with different circumstances cannot fathom the type of things things that can happen to people completely beyond their control.
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2010, 07:50:37 PM »

But on a slightly more serious note, I think we'd do far better to provide free college education than trying to force education on unwilling high school students: something along the lines of casting pearls before swine. Maybe what they need is a few years in the real world to figure out that school isn't all that bad after all. Don't force education on people, just keep the opportunity open and don't make it too hard on them to come back, simply because they made a stupid decision when they were 15.

Excellent suggestion! I believe the State does very wrong in making higher education so difficult for those in less fortunate situations to obtain. And please don't think that because someone dropped out of highschool at 15 that it was always because of their own stupid decision! I have only a tenth grade education not because I didn't have enormously high goals for myself, but because my parents forbid me to go further. I think those blessed with different circumstances cannot fathom the type of things things that can happen to people completely beyond their control.
How should it be made easier? In the state in which I live the standards have already been reduced to the lowest common denominantor. I remember reading the papers written by classmates in English 101 and thinking, "how did this person even get into collge?"
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2010, 07:54:34 PM »

I mean, it should not be so expensive and the State should not turn their backs to cries for help from young people who long to go to highschool and beyond. There are those who desperately want to get a good education and who have very specific goals (as I had when I was only 12 years old). Yet there was nowhere to turn, no one to help. The officials at the school merely shrugged their shoulders and said to me, "Sorry, we can't help you. It's your parents' right to decide how much education you get." What devastating words for a person for whom academic striving was her whole world.
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2010, 07:58:04 PM »

I mean, it should not be so expensive and the State should not turn their backs to cries for help from young people who long to go to highschool and beyond. There are those who desperately want to get a good education and who have very specific goals (as I had when I was only 12 years old). Yet there was nowhere to turn, no one to help. The officials at the school merely shrugged their shoulders and said to me, "Sorry, we can't help you. It's your parents' right to decide how much education you get." What devastating words for a person for whom academic striving was her whole world.
I am sorry that this happened to you. Very sad indeed. But for those who later want to pursue their education, community colleges usually offer classes to help one prepare for a GED. Once the GED is earned a person can take courses at the community college (even remedial classes if need be) until that person earns an associates degree. From there a person can transfer to a University and work towards a bachelors degree and further on if desired.
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2010, 08:03:31 PM »

Yes, but it's just not the same as getting all this at the proper time in one's life. For example, I am attempting to do some courses via distance education, and it's not only belittling at my age to have to do highschool courses which even a person my age with say, a law degree, barely remembers; but it's nearly impossible to focus. It's very discouraging not to be able to simply enter a college-level programme. It's a terrible, terrible handicap and not in the least bit easy. It's easy to say it is unless you've actually been in the situation.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 08:05:22 PM »

Yes, but it's just not the same as getting all this at the proper time in one's life. For example, I am attempting to do some courses via distance education, and it's not only belittling at my age to have to do highschool courses which even a person my age with say, a law degree, barely remembers; but it's nearly impossible to focus. It's very discouraging not to be able to simply enter a college-level programme. It's a terrible, terrible handicap and not in the least bit easy. It's easy to say it is unless you've actually been in the situation.
I certainly don't think its easy at all. I really respect that you are willing to do the hard work and go this difficult process.
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2010, 08:10:50 PM »

Thanks, Papist. What I really had wanted to say was that the state has got to do better in this area. It cannot merely shrug its shoulders heartlessly while eager young people's hearts are being crushed and smashed to bits. It cannot continue to ask so much money of young people who have no one to support them in their decision to get an education. In giving such people the brush off and making it nearly impossible for any sort of educational opportunities, they are creating future poverty-stricken individuals, instead of individuals who are equipped to contribute meaningfully to society.
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2010, 08:17:56 PM »

Thanks, Papist. What I really had wanted to say was that the state has got to do better in this area. It cannot merely shrug its shoulders heartlessly while eager young people's hearts are being crushed and smashed to bits. It cannot continue to ask so much money of young people who have no one to support them in their decision to get an education. In giving such people the brush off and making it nearly impossible for any sort of educational opportunities, they are creating future poverty-stricken individuals, instead of individuals who are equipped to contribute meaningfully to society.
Well in my state I know that it is illegal to drop out of high school until one is 18 years of age. I absolutely agree that what happened to you was unjust and I think that the state should not have allowed your parents to pull you out of school. That being said, is it your opinion that you should move directly into college courses now?
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2010, 08:53:00 PM »

Well, a law school graduate my age would very likely remember very little of his 11th grade courses, yet wouldn't have to repeat them in order to be accepted into a pathetic little primitive college-level programme (I'm talking college-not university). I think if I am having to pay to take the course, and as a mature student who has not been totally intellectually idle all these years, I should at least have the option to try the programme without first having to spend at least a couple years of very precious time getting those highschool credits. That's just my opinion. I think such decisions should be made in a thoughtful,compassionate case-by-case manner ( a few years ago I did take a few courses at the local university-I was permitted to skip to the third year university level in some and got the highest marks in the class-but for some reason colleges are more difficult to enter).
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2010, 10:35:00 PM »

For those of us who are not American, what is a GED?

It's sort of like certification saying that you have an education/learning equivalent to a high school graduate. Here's some statements from the wiki article on it (I think they're accurate):

"General Educational Development (or GED) tests are a group of five subject tests which, when passed, certify that the taker has American or Canadian high school-level academic skills. The GED is sometimes referred to as a General Equivalency Diploma or General Education Diploma. To pass the GED Tests and earn a GED credential, test takers must score higher than 60 percent of graduating high school seniors nationwide. Some jurisdictions require that students pass additional tests such as an English proficiency exam or civics test...

Only individuals who have not earned a high school diploma may take the GED tests. The tests were originally created to help veterans after World War II return to civilian life. Common reasons for GED recipients not having received a high school diploma include immigration to the United States or Canada, homeschooling, leaving high school early due to a lack of interest, the inability to pass required courses, mandatory achievement tests, the need to work, personal problems, wanting to get into college early, etc. More than 15 million people have received a GED credential since the program began. One in every seven Americans with high school credentials received the GED, as well as one in 20 college students."
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2010, 10:41:32 PM »

How should it be made easier? In the state in which I live the standards have already been reduced to the lowest common denominantor. I remember reading the papers written by classmates in English 101 and thinking, "how did this person even get into collge?"

I wonder how much difference there is from state to state? When I went to school last week to apply for admission, they had me take a placement test, grading my English (in two parts), Math (in two parts), and computers (one part). They then assigned me classes based on my scores. When a score is below a certain level, they don't put you in freshman courses (100's), but rather make you take a refresher course (e.g. 050 Foundations of Algebra or 066 Basic Writing).
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2010, 10:43:50 PM »

Rosehip,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, and the issues you bring up generally. Sad  It makes me feel foolish in that I was thinking my own situation was not optimal (ie. I haven't been in a college class in 10 years). Things are a lot worse for some.
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« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2010, 11:54:47 PM »

The GED is graded via percentiles. Percentiles are the average of an average so they are notoriously unreliable. This average is based upon the preceding year's test pool. So the GED standard today is not what it was when I took it. Even then I scored in the 90-something percentile when I took it. But the difference between the 50th and 90th percentile could only be a couple questions depending upon how they averaged the average.

Rosehip- as a fellow high school drop out I want you to know that it is very easy to continue into college level classes here even if one is not a high school grad. we have "CLEP" and placement tests that allow one to either test into a higher level of class or take the test in lieu of a class. So if you placement test at 2nd year college level on a given course you can either CLEP the course or you can enter into a higher level course. In fact in my area my daughter can participate in a program called "running start" where she can take college courses BOTH for high school and associates concurrently. So by the time she graduates from high school she will have a high school diploma and an associates degree.
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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2010, 11:56:43 PM »

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/about.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_Start
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2010, 12:32:34 AM »

But on a slightly more serious note, I think we'd do far better to provide free college education than trying to force education on unwilling high school students: something along the lines of casting pearls before swine. Maybe what they need is a few years in the real world to figure out that school isn't all that bad after all. Don't force education on people, just keep the opportunity open and don't make it too hard on them to come back, simply because they made a stupid decision when they were 15.

I agree, something does need to be done about the cost of college. As my Grandmother always says, "They want everyone to be educated, but they don't tell you how to pay for it."

You stated in an earlier post, and I have experienced first hand, in the current economy more and more employers are demanding Bachelor's and Master's degrees in positions that previously required none. Despite my nine years of telecom experience, over 17 Headhunters repeatedly told me that I could not get a job without a degree.

That being said, the cost for tuition ALONE for 2009-2010 at Rutgers University, the State University of New Jersey (not a private University) is $9,546Shocked (source: http://www.rutgers.edu/admissions/financial-aid). So an Undergrad student who goes there for four years will walk out with over $40K in loans when they graduate, and that's before you add in the cost of books, fees, labs, and heaven forbid, ROOM & BOARD!

In Georgia, they use the Georgia lottery to fund student's education. If you are a Georgia resident for one year or more, and have a B average or better in High School, the Georgia Lottery will pay for four years of tuition at any Georgia State College or University. When I lived in Atlanta, most of my friends were able to go to college because of this scholarship opportunity.

Unfortuanately in NJ, our politicians are too corrupt to use the earnings from the Atlantic City Casinos and New Jersey Lottery to fund educational opportunities such as the one is Georgia.  Angry



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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2010, 12:47:51 AM »

For those of us who are not American, what is a GED?

It's sort of like certification saying that you have an education/learning equivalent to a high school graduate. Here's some statements from the wiki article on it (I think they're accurate):

"General Educational Development (or GED) tests are a group of five subject tests which, when passed, certify that the taker has American or Canadian high school-level academic skills. The GED is sometimes referred to as a General Equivalency Diploma or General Education Diploma. To pass the GED Tests and earn a GED credential, test takers must score higher than 60 percent of graduating high school seniors nationwide. Some jurisdictions require that students pass additional tests such as an English proficiency exam or civics test...

Only individuals who have not earned a high school diploma may take the GED tests. The tests were originally created to help veterans after World War II return to civilian life. Common reasons for GED recipients not having received a high school diploma include immigration to the United States or Canada, homeschooling, leaving high school early due to a lack of interest, the inability to pass required courses, mandatory achievement tests, the need to work, personal problems, wanting to get into college early, etc. More than 15 million people have received a GED credential since the program began. One in every seven Americans with high school credentials received the GED, as well as one in 20 college students."

Thanks!

That being said, the cost for tuition ALONE for 2009-2010 at Rutgers University, the State University of New Jersey (not a private University) is $9,546

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Quote
In Georgia, they use the Georgia lottery to fund student's education. If you are a Georgia resident for one year or more, and have a B average or better in High School, the Georgia Lottery will pay for four years of tuition at any Georgia State College or University. When I lived in Atlanta, most of my friends were able to go to college because of this scholarship opportunity.

Wow, that sounds really great.
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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2010, 12:51:38 AM »

Colleges, in recent years, have done much to overhaul their admission requirements, especially in the last year or so with the recession.  I know that at George Brown and Seneca it usually less of a hassle for a mature student without an OSSD to get admitted compared to someone with a GED (which is generally frowned upon up here by academic institutions, university or college).  In the past, colleges had bizarre mature student policies, but they have now fallen more in line with Universities (often being more lenient [not penalising students for taking previous post-secondary courses]).
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2010, 01:06:49 AM »

That being said, the cost for tuition ALONE for 2009-2010 at Rutgers University, the State University of New Jersey (not a private University) is $9,546Shocked (source: http://www.rutgers.edu/admissions/financial-aid). So an Undergrad student who goes there for four years will walk out with over $40K in loans when they graduate, and that's before you add in the cost of books, fees, labs, and heaven forbid, ROOM & BOARD!

Fees climb by 4% a year (depending on the school and the faculty) at the very least.  When I started my programme, my tuition was ~$7800.  Now a first year Computer Science major will pay ~$9300.  Thankfully upper year student tuitions inflate is pegged at a 4% max.
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« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2010, 02:16:05 AM »

To reply to the original inquiry, I was the Contract Administrator of a federally funded employment and training system, for the economically disadvantaged, in a city with a 1/2 million population at the time, from 1984 to 1998.  Our office funded GED Preparation programs, as a step toward training and employment.  I had found that employers did typically find a GED something less than a high school degree.  However, when it was coupled with an associates degree, the issue of the GED was not a factor.  Of course, an employment history, after the GED was awarded, also helped minimize the negative impression of the GED.  Further, the GED, obviously far exceeds a high school drop out status.
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« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2010, 01:25:45 PM »

But on a slightly more serious note, I think we'd do far better to provide free college education than trying to force education on unwilling high school students: something along the lines of casting pearls before swine. Maybe what they need is a few years in the real world to figure out that school isn't all that bad after all. Don't force education on people, just keep the opportunity open and don't make it too hard on them to come back, simply because they made a stupid decision when they were 15.

Excellent suggestion! I believe the State does very wrong in making higher education so difficult for those in less fortunate situations to obtain. And please don't think that because someone dropped out of highschool at 15 that it was always because of their own stupid decision! I have only a tenth grade education not because I didn't have enormously high goals for myself, but because my parents forbid me to go further. I think those blessed with different circumstances cannot fathom the type of things things that can happen to people completely beyond their control.

Well, my implication was that even if it is one's fault they didn't graduate high school, they still shouldn't be penalized if they reattempt getting an education later in life. In your case, you were clearly wronged and disadvantaged, to the point that I believe there should be criminal penalties for those responsible. But, regardless of the reasoning for not obtaining a high school education, one should be given every opportunity to continue their education in the future, without paying exorbitant tuition fees. Free tuition should take priority above and beyond a myriad of currently-in-place social programmes.

I also agree that you should be allowed into introductory level college classes, at the very least. First of all, I'm convinced that you don't learn anything in high school that you shouldn't naturally pick up in life. Even the math and physics taught is so basic it's basically intuitive, I insisted on that when I was in high school and I insist on it now. Furthermore, I have always had a problem with prerequisites, if a university wishes to restrict admission to those who have demonstrated a level of academic achievement, fine, but a community college should have no restrictions on course work for anyone and neither should a university for those admitted (though I understand the need to keep grad and undergrad schools separate, with separate admission requirements). To me, it comes down to personal responsibility, if you want to take General Relativity straight out of high school, that's your choice, sure, there is probably only one percent of students who could pull it off, but why deny them access to education and knowledge? And for those who can't cut it, it was their choice; by all means, recommend prerequisites, but don't mandate them. Of course, the other side of the coin is that professors shouldn't cater to students who are unprepared.
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« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2012, 02:36:53 PM »

Out of curiosity, do some people think less of those who have a GED, as compared to those who have a high school diploma? I'm thinking especially of employment situations and the thinking that goes into hiring people, but I'd certainly welcome opinions dealing with other situations as well.

While I do not "look down" on them, I take it as an indicator of intelligence. The National Longitudinal Survey of Youth shows that GED holders generally have lower IQs than those who graduate high school in the usual manner. However, they do test higher than high school dropouts.

The high school dropout rate in the US is pretty constant at 25%. The vast majority of these are not circumstances beyond their control e.g. "I have to drop out to work and save the farm!" The reasons are almost always self-indulgent ones.

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« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2012, 02:49:22 PM »

Anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth: The people that I know in my life that have their GED absolutely dropped out of high school for "self-indulgent" reasons... and then, later, regretted it. They took the time and trouble to obtain their GED despite now having real- life commitments, like kids and/or jobs.

So, no. I don't look down on people who have their GED. I don't frankly care what their IQ is. To me, especially dropping out for self-indulgent reasons and then going back shows a willingness to make it right, an acceptance of consequences of one's decisions, determination, etc. Those qualities are just as important as IQ.
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« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2012, 02:53:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

On the street this is called the "Good Enough Diploma"  and is a very viable option for all kinds of folks from all kinds of backgrounds.  Just a note, with enough work and dedication a person can graduate from Harvard or Stanford with a GED Wink

I earned my GED my "sophomore year."  My mother tried to home school for a year and failed. Whether you have a GED or a diploma matters little in comparison to your ability to speak intelligently and fill out paperwork correctly. If an employer has a choice between a high school grad that lacks spelling skills, and a GED holder that knows how to spell, they will choose the GED holder in most cases.

Educators are working hard to make sure that a high school diploma actually means something. But they are working against the tide in some areas of the country. Until the educational system evens out in terms of quality a high school diploma can't be used as the sole proof that one is actually educated.
And we are fighting a cultural war here. Since I have started teaching I have noticed that a very large percentage of my students paretents do not hold their children to a very high standard nor do they discipline them at home. So they come to school painfully lazy, knowing full well that their parents care little about their education. Its very difficult to educate that. Then you have the mandates from the state about graduation rates, so students who are unconcerned with their education are pushed through the system. That's why you will occasionally get high school grads who can't read.
When it comes to education, you get out of it what you put in. Unfortunately, very few are willing to put much in.

Well, we all need people to mow our lawns, clean our houses, stock the shelves at the local department store, and run a cash register...and there are only so many history and philosophy majors to go around. Wink
What if we end up with too many lawn mowers, maids, shelve stockers? Or worse, with many uneducated that simply become criminals and eventually wards of the state? Or too many on welfare? What then?



People who mow lawns, clean, and stock shelves equally benefit from at the least a good high school education, so we shouldn't scoff.  Further, there is a bit of class war going in the education community, as many administrators, teachers, and pundits have the wrong idea about the success of college.  Lets be realistic, while I want ALL of my students to have the opportunity, potential, and ability to go to college and graduate, it is simply unnecessary.  Further, in the US we currently have upwards of hundred of thousands of openings for skilled jobs that require some training and education but not  4-year or even 2-year degree.  Something is wrong with our approach which also inherently denigrates folks who are not really trying for some kind of college-based career path.  We need to educate EVERYBODY within their abilities and goals.  Again, everybody deserves the same opportunity, but we shouldn't have the same expectations as it may send the wrong message.  The college drop-out rate is beginning to match the high school drop out rate, and perhaps for good reason.  I like what they do in Detroit, not only is the high school system integrated with the college system through the traditional AP courses and night class programs which give high school students a start at college, but trade and tech programs to help fill these crucial, respectable, and well-paying jobs.  To graduate ALL students must complete exist exams, a minimum number of course credits, and also complete TWO trade, tech, or apprentice programs.  This way they have tangible experience in all directions.  Kids need to visualize their options, they are kids after all, sometimes they never even heard of or seen jobs and careers that are potentially ideal for their skill-sets and mind-sets.  The more exposure and opportunity the better. My beef is that we  (public education that is to say) are essentially over emphasizing paper-pushing gigs, and that is simply not for everybody, nor should it be, unless we want to all become Dilbert.


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« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2012, 10:07:45 PM »

In my personal opinion, and I am a business owner, it doesn't matter.

I've known high school dropouts in the computer industry who had knowledge far beyond those with college diplomas.
It's all about their knowledge, attitude, and willingness to do a good job.

My opinion is not the typical.   I believe firmly that you are never stupid until you quit learning. 
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