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Author Topic: I"m interested in orthodoxy, so try to convince me to become one.  (Read 11470 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2010, 05:18:24 PM »

Glory to God!
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2010, 06:23:10 PM »

Glory to God!
Well I went to a Greek orthodox Church today, my whole family was amazed.
My Dad basically ended up believing that all churches should worship like the orthodox,me I got to go to the orthodox church for the first time, and my uncle who's always ecclesiastically implacable( I still don't know what church he believes in, even though he says he's christian) was amazed.

I just can't call myself baptist anymore, I don't believe it anymore, nor can I call myself Roman Catholic because I don't believe in the Pope, and I was so disappointed, when they stopped using Latin in favor of local language, I spent years studying Latin duos annos latinae studendae egi, I felt like the catholic church turned its back on us Latin speaking Christians,just abandoned us.

The worship is just as I imagined it, no rock bands, and other mundane worshiping fads.
There was a nice guy who showed and informed us about the Icons, who asked my uncle if he was orthodox, my uncle answered, I'm non-denominational, the guy who's the uscher I think, said, well we're pre-denominational.

Some popadya ( I forgot the greek word for the priest's wife so here's the russian one
Pre-zvee-teh-rah
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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2010, 06:35:41 PM »

Well I went to a Greek orthodox Church today, my whole family was amazed.

I'm glad that they came with you and were impressed.  Nobody I know gives a flip.
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« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2010, 06:56:33 PM »

Sparrow, join the ACOE (Assyrian Church of the East). The Church which speaks Jesus's language, Aramaic and the Orthodox New Testament (the Peshitta, see my avatar ).
Rafa999, you do realize that attempts to draw persons into your jurisdiction are forbidden on this forum?  If not, I recommend that you read the following policy statement to this effect:

Proselytism and Forum Plugging hereby banned (created "NC" Nov 24, 2003) - UPDATED BELOW! - See Reply #1
Friends,

From now on, banners in signatures to other forums are not allowed although you may link to another forum or website in your signature, without comment.

From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

Proselytizing people to your jurisdiction is no longer allowed.  I don't care if it is the GOA or the ROAC, we don't exist to give spiritual advice, but rather to discuss spiritual matters. There is a healthy distinction.  If you feel the need to plug your group then do it by private message.

You may not private message others to solicit them to join your forum, however.  We have the ability to read other people's private messages (this is disclosed in the member agreement you sign when joining the forum) and we don't do that usually, but we can, and we will, if we think you are trying to lure people away from our site.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.  From a human standpoint I would be lying if I said that some people in particular did not precipitate this action BUT at the same time there have been others over the past 1.5 years who have done this as well, so it is not just based on a knee-jerk reaction.

Stay tuned for an even more indepth statement on proselytism to be issued soon by all of us Admins.

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This seems slightly different to me as it is not a matter of intra-communal jurisdictional quibbling but rather inter-communal. Has that been addressed before, inter-communal proselytizing?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 06:57:38 PM by deusveritasest » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2010, 06:59:31 PM »

Does the latter inclination have anything to do with it sounding "reasonable" or "right"?

Yes. It feels right.

But on a rational/intellectual level you are convinced of Romanism?

Satisfied but not convinced. I'm a flip flopper. With Catholicism I have to be convinced by surrounding myself with Catholic conversion stories and apologetics. I will feel very at ease where I'm at. But as soon as I come back here or listen to Ancient Faith Radio and without any apologetics I find myself drawn to Orthodoxy again.

But which way do you feel right now more inclined on a rational/intellectual level?
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2010, 07:01:34 PM »

Thanks everyone, so tomorrow I"m going to a Greek orthodox Church.

I want to ask you guys a question.
Doesn't Vatican 2 say that non-Christians get to go to heaven, if not, does the roman catholic church believe this?
and do Orthodox people believe such things as Muslims going to heaven?

Personally I believe this verse,
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Both modern Romanists and most EO I have met believe that it is possible for non-Christians to come to the Father through Jesus.
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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2010, 07:13:22 PM »

Quote
Can't you do any better than that?

The church which is older than the OO despotate instituted by heresiarchs. Grin

What do you mean by "despotate"?

I get the feeing he is referring to St. Cyril.
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2010, 07:24:40 PM »

But which way do you feel right now more inclined on a rational/intellectual level?

At this moment? Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2010, 07:44:32 PM »

At this moment? Orthodoxy.

Refresh my memory.  Have you attended a liturgy?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 07:44:38 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2010, 07:56:59 PM »

Quote
Can't you do any better than that?

The church which is older than the OO despotate instituted by heresiarchs. Grin

What do you mean by "despotate"?

I get the feeing he is referring to St. Cyril.

*le sigh*
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« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2010, 07:57:31 PM »

But which way do you feel right now more inclined on a rational/intellectual level?

At this moment? Orthodoxy.

For any particular reason?
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« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2010, 07:58:26 PM »

MS, which Orthodox books have you read?
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« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2010, 08:49:33 PM »

MS, which Orthodox books have you read?

The Historical Road of Eastern Orthodoxy by Fr. Alexander Schmemann
The Orthodox Church by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
Becoming Orthodox by Archpriest Peter E. Gillquist
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« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2010, 08:50:16 PM »

At this moment? Orthodoxy.

Refresh my memory.  Have you attended a liturgy?

No. Not yet. I haven't been able to muster up the courage.
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« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2010, 08:53:05 PM »

But which way do you feel right now more inclined on a rational/intellectual level?

At this moment? Orthodoxy.

For any particular reason?

No. That's just it. I can give you multiple intellectual reasons in defense of the Catholic Church but for Orthodoxy I have none. My only intellectual/rational argument for Orthodoxy at the moment is that somehow I believe that if the Holy Spirit is guiding me, He will be doing it through my heart and soul and not my intellect. We must be like children. And that's how I feel about Orthodoxy. I feel like a child who loves his mom and has no inkling of how to intellectualize a defense for that love.
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« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2010, 09:14:39 PM »

What do you have to be scared of (By attending a liturgy, I mean)? We don't bite.  Tongue Do you have a parish close by?
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« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2010, 09:20:02 PM »

But which way do you feel right now more inclined on a rational/intellectual level?

At this moment? Orthodoxy.

For any particular reason?

No. That's just it. I can give you multiple intellectual reasons in defense of the Catholic Church but for Orthodoxy I have none. My only intellectual/rational argument for Orthodoxy at the moment is that somehow I believe that if the Holy Spirit is guiding me, He will be doing it through my heart and soul and not my intellect. We must be like children. And that's how I feel about Orthodoxy. I feel like a child who loves his mom and has no inkling of how to intellectualize a defense for that love.

Orthodoxy, above anything, is an experiential faith. It must be lived. However, I don't have a problem rationally justifying why I think it is the most authentic expression of Christianity.
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« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2010, 09:23:15 PM »

But which way do you feel right now more inclined on a rational/intellectual level?

At this moment? Orthodoxy.

For any particular reason?

No. That's just it. I can give you multiple intellectual reasons in defense of the Catholic Church but for Orthodoxy I have none. My only intellectual/rational argument for Orthodoxy at the moment is that somehow I believe that if the Holy Spirit is guiding me, He will be doing it through my heart and soul and not my intellect. We must be like children. And that's how I feel about Orthodoxy. I feel like a child who loves his mom and has no inkling of how to intellectualize a defense for that love.

Doesn't that mean that Orthodoxy is not what you're more rationally/intellectual inclined to?  Huh
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« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2010, 09:23:51 PM »

Do you have a parish close by?

We covered that in another thread.  He's aware of many options around him.
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« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2010, 10:05:13 PM »

Do you have a parish close by?

We covered that in another thread.  He's aware of many options around him.

Correct.
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« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2010, 10:08:33 PM »

Quote
Doesn't that mean that Orthodoxy is not what you're more rationally/intellectual inclined to?

I think it's not as simple as that. It's not simple at all. I wish it were.
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« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2010, 10:37:19 PM »

No. That's just it. I can give you multiple intellectual reasons in defense of the Catholic Church but for Orthodoxy I have none. My only intellectual/rational argument for Orthodoxy at the moment is that somehow I believe that if the Holy Spirit is guiding me, He will be doing it through my heart and soul and not my intellect. We must be like children. And that's how I feel about Orthodoxy. I feel like a child who loves his mom and has no inkling of how to intellectualize a defense for that love.

Why is it necessary to have intellectual/rational arguments to be Orthodox??
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« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2010, 10:48:21 PM »

Why is it necessary to have intellectual/rational arguments to be Orthodox??

I would say that they are needed because, when you make choices without taking into consideration intellectual/rational arguments, you get into scenarios such as...

"Oh sure, I can't give you a reason to be Muslim... but I just feel in my heart that it's right!"

"True, I cannot make a good argument for why I'm a Buddhist, but aren't the teachings so wonderful?"

"Maybe I can't give you intellectual reasons that I'm a Taoist, but I believe that these teachings have put me on the right spiritual path"

"I don't know how to defend my choice, but I know that my soul is really touched by the services in my pentecostal church"
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« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2010, 10:58:59 PM »

I would say that they are needed because, when you make choices without taking into consideration intellectual/rational arguments, you get into scenarios such as...

"Oh sure, I can't give you a reason to be Muslim... but I just feel in my heart that it's right!"

"True, I cannot make a good argument for why I'm a Buddhist, but aren't the teachings so wonderful?"

"Maybe I can't give you intellectual reasons that I'm a Taoist, but I believe that these teachings have put me on the right spiritual path"

"I don't know how to defend my choice, but I know that my soul is really touched by the services in my pentecostal church"

But that doesn't really tell me why it is necessary to have such arguments. I will agree that they are useful in explaining to others and debates etc. but that doesn't make them necessary. The danger here would be that using rational arguments will put a person in danger of using intellectual assent as justification for their faith. That's not exactly a healthy place to be--spiritually wise.
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« Reply #69 on: January 18, 2010, 01:00:56 AM »

No. That's just it. I can give you multiple intellectual reasons in defense of the Catholic Church but for Orthodoxy I have none. My only intellectual/rational argument for Orthodoxy at the moment is that somehow I believe that if the Holy Spirit is guiding me, He will be doing it through my heart and soul and not my intellect. We must be like children. And that's how I feel about Orthodoxy. I feel like a child who loves his mom and has no inkling of how to intellectualize a defense for that love.

Why is it necessary to have intellectual/rational arguments to be Orthodox??

I think because the truth oftentimes, at least in part, presents itself in an intellectual/rational manner.
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« Reply #70 on: January 18, 2010, 03:30:28 AM »

Sparrow, join the ACOE (Assyrian Church of the East). The Church which speaks Jesus's language, Aramaic and the Orthodox New Testament (the Peshitta, see my avatar ).
Rafa999, you do realize that attempts to draw persons into your jurisdiction are forbidden on this forum?  If not, I recommend that you read the following policy statement to this effect:

Proselytism and Forum Plugging hereby banned (created "NC" Nov 24, 2003) - UPDATED BELOW! - See Reply #1
Friends,

From now on, banners in signatures to other forums are not allowed although you may link to another forum or website in your signature, without comment.

From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

Proselytizing people to your jurisdiction is no longer allowed.  I don't care if it is the GOA or the ROAC, we don't exist to give spiritual advice, but rather to discuss spiritual matters. There is a healthy distinction.  If you feel the need to plug your group then do it by private message.

You may not private message others to solicit them to join your forum, however.  We have the ability to read other people's private messages (this is disclosed in the member agreement you sign when joining the forum) and we don't do that usually, but we can, and we will, if we think you are trying to lure people away from our site.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.  From a human standpoint I would be lying if I said that some people in particular did not precipitate this action BUT at the same time there have been others over the past 1.5 years who have done this as well, so it is not just based on a knee-jerk reaction.

Stay tuned for an even more indepth statement on proselytism to be issued soon by all of us Admins.

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This seems slightly different to me as it is not a matter of intra-communal jurisdictional quibbling but rather inter-communal. Has that been addressed before, inter-communal proselytizing?
You may want to take that up with the moderators in private. Wink
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« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2010, 03:38:18 AM »

You may want to take that up with the moderators in private. Wink

Or take advantage of the offer to express your questions in this thread Wink
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« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2010, 04:22:02 AM »

But that doesn't really tell me why it is necessary to have such arguments. I will agree that they are useful in explaining to others and debates etc. but that doesn't make them necessary. The danger here would be that using rational arguments will put a person in danger of using intellectual assent as justification for their faith. That's not exactly a healthy place to be--spiritually wise.

Well, you know, as I thought about how to answer this, and I thought about the place that reason should have as it relates to religious beliefs or spirituality, I realised that the answer that I would give is probably outside the circle of tenable Orthodox beliefs. My opinions are just too naturalistic. I guess if I wanted to press the matter I would bring up the Bible verse... "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." (1 Pet. 3:15) ... though perhaps I am engaging in some eisegesis here in thinking that this is speaking of intellectual/rational arguments.
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« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2010, 05:32:04 AM »

You may want to take that up with the moderators in private. Wink

Or take advantage of the offer to express your questions in this thread Wink
Yeah, that would be a good idea, too. Wink
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« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2010, 07:23:35 AM »

If I read
Anything, even Zen Buddhism, sounds good if I read about it. There is some good in everything. For this reason I never try to convince people to become Orthodox Christians on this forum, even if they ask me to (as this thread does). St. Maximos the Confessor said "Theology without praxis is the theology of demons", which echoes what St. James says in his Epistle: "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!" (James 2:19). Orthodox Christianity has to be lived, it can't be only be theorized about. This starts simply then builds up, for example, we can begin by attending Liturgy regularly, keeping the Wednesday and Friday Fasts, and giving alms to the poor. Above all, we need a Community of believers around us, a group who take the practice of their their Faith seriously. These are the people who "smell of incense" as we say in Greek, that is, they are regularly in the Church.
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« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2010, 06:06:11 AM »

Where can I get orthodox teaching, or be taught orthodoxy?
From Topic poster.

I understand what's it like to abandon old ways for the new way, just as example people from French or Spanish, have to abandon their way of reading their language, and adopt a new way of reading the new language (example English).
I saw this when my Dad taught English to Mexican farm workers.
one of them pronounced «People» as [pe ople] [πε-οπ-λε] not as pi p upside down e l [pipl], he wouldn't abandon his Mexican pronunciation which made him sound like a complete idiot in English. I know that it requires, that you forget your way, and adopt God's way.
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« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2010, 02:48:08 PM »

Where can I get orthodox teaching, or be taught orthodoxy?
From Topic poster.

I understand what's it like to abandon old ways for the new way, just as example people from French or Spanish, have to abandon their way of reading their language, and adopt a new way of reading the new language (example English).
I saw this when my Dad taught English to Mexican farm workers.
one of them pronounced «People» as [pe ople] [πε-οπ-λε] not as pi p upside down e l [pipl], he wouldn't abandon his Mexican pronunciation which made him sound like a complete idiot in English. I know that it requires, that you forget your way, and adopt God's way.

Inanswer to "Where can I get orthodox teaching, or be taught orthodoxy?"

From an Orthodox Priest, pastor of your local parish.

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« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2010, 07:43:32 PM »

[/quote]
Anything, even Zen Buddhism, sounds good if I read about it. There is some good in everything. For this reason I never try to convince people to become Orthodox Christians on this forum, even if they ask me to (as this thread does). St. Maximos the Confessor said "Theology without praxis is the theology of demons", which echoes what St. James says in his Epistle: "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!" (James 2:19). Orthodox Christianity has to be lived, it can't be only be theorized about. This starts simply then builds up, for example, we can begin by attending Liturgy regularly, keeping the Wednesday and Friday Fasts, and giving alms to the poor. Above all, we need a Community of believers around us, a group who take the practice of their their Faith seriously. These are the people who "smell of incense" as we say in Greek, that is, they are regularly in the Church.
[/quote]


That's excellent. That's what our families have been doing for 1700+ years!
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« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2010, 12:26:54 AM »

That's it I want to be orthodox, this church is the new testament church which gave us the Bible.
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« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2010, 05:43:08 AM »


That's it I want to be orthodox, this church is the new testament church which gave us the Bible.

Which church?
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« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2010, 12:37:49 PM »

deusveritasest, the one this website is dedicated to...
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« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2010, 01:05:44 PM »

That's it I want to be orthodox, this church is the new testament church which gave us the Bible.

I sincerely wish you all the best as you begin the new stage of your journey, and I hope you finish the race as one triumphant.

It is a difficult path at times, and I warn you out of love that there will be times when you are tempted to give up.  However, only those who can endure will receive the crown, and so you will stay the course and remain faithful to your 'first love' who is Jesus Christ, whom you will find in the Church.

Do not let anyone or anything steal your commitment or your joy, because these are gifts from God that cannot be replaced.

The Church has given us more than the Bible, but rather the Bible as part of a rich and wonderful Tradition which you will spend a lifetime experiencing and learning.  You will discover many things that you have taken for granted have, in fact, been born from the Church, because the Church is the Church of the True Creator.

If you truly repent and crucify your flesh as we are all called to do, you will experience the presence of the Living God and be filled with His love and mercy.  The closer you draw to Him, the more good will be born of you and the more you will flee from temptation.  You will have peace, perhaps for the first time in your life.

God bless you.
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« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2010, 08:20:45 PM »


deusveritasest, the one this website is dedicated to...

Which church is that?
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« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2010, 09:44:20 PM »


deusveritasest, the one this website is dedicated to...

Which church is that?

My guess is: No particular Orthodox Church. Rather, it is named after small o orthodoxy. After all, if I remember correctly, at the time of the creation of this site, two out of three of the admins weren't Eastern Orthodox.
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« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2010, 10:03:54 PM »


deusveritasest, the one this website is dedicated to...

Which church is that?

My guess is: No particular Orthodox Church. Rather, it is named after small o orthodoxy. After all, if I remember correctly, at the time of the creation of this site, two out of three of the admins weren't Eastern Orthodox.

Then my question as to which church Christianus is speaking of wanting to join appears to have not really been answered yet.
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« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2010, 01:25:50 AM »

Wait, I thought this site was an EO site that allowed others to come in and post... am I wrong in that assumption?
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« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2010, 01:53:28 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tirUy13Q_L8&feature=related
This will help your decision.

Beware of modern ecumenism, it is the foundation for the kingdom of the anti-christ.

The pope is making it all happen, he's trying hard to usher in a one world religion, which has basically already happened.
Watch and see,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEC6e8N0Wfk&feature=PlayList&p=A5FB5BA9B8224F11&index=0

This is no joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGjxtEn_UXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gke1BN7k2gM&feature=related

Some orthodox elders are on YouTube have some good insights into it

Rome = Whore of babylon from the book of Revelation, The heretic church.

Dont lose hope..

Orthodoxy is not dead yet.

Ive heard from someone, a priest, that the OCA (orthodox church of america) is going to be under metropolitan Jonah, who is old calendar(meaning its not ecumenical). And that all of the churches ; romanian, serbian, russian ,etc (I dont think the greek), are going to join together under Metropolitan Jonah. Lets pray that this shall be so.

Here is about Jonah,
http://bloggingsbetter.wordpress.com/category/metropolitan-jonah/



In Christ


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« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2010, 02:31:16 AM »

Wait, I thought this site was an EO site that allowed others to come in and post... am I wrong in that assumption?

You could be right. I don't know. I asked recently in the Questions About Forum Policy thread for clarification on what the purpose of this forum is supposed to be, and what place non-Orthodox posters have. As for my comment in this thread, I mostly just wanted to point out something that some people might not have been aware of. The original name of the site was Byzantines.org, and it later became orthodoxchristianity.net, as outlined in this thread by Fr. Anastasios. As you'll notice from that thread, not all the admins at the time were actually Orthodox yet. And the term that Fr. Anastasios uses in that thread to decribe the forum is "Orthodox-oriented," make of that what you will. Here is what Fr. Anastasios said three days after OC.net was up and running:

Quote
I, anastasios, am Byzantine Catholic but am interested in Orthodoxy and attend St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary;

Mor Ephrem is Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox;

Nik is a catechumen in ROCOR;

Bobby is in the process of joining the OCA.

Other moderators in the past such as Orthodoc and Dr. Mether are Orthodox; we will see about getting new moderators, etc. who are Orthodox shortly.

We started this board as a way to give a service to the Orthodox community and also to get our questions about Orthodoxy answered.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2010, 02:43:49 AM »


Wait, I thought this site was an EO site that allowed others to come in and post... am I wrong in that assumption?

Even if it was EOy is not restricted to one particular communion as is evidenced by some of the moderators serving here.
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« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2010, 02:45:33 AM »


Ive heard from someone, a priest, that the OCA (orthodox church of america) is going to be under metropolitan Jonah, who is old calendar(meaning its not ecumenical).

No. The OCA is, for the most part, on the Revised Julian Calendar.
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