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Author Topic: I"m interested in orthodoxy, so try to convince me to become one.  (Read 11633 times) Average Rating: 0
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Christianus
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« on: January 16, 2010, 05:57:53 AM »

Hey everyone, so far My Dad was raised Seven day adventist( I don't believe in Ellen G White), and my mother Roman catholic, and I joined a baptist church a long time ago, got baptized in it, and now I wish I hadn't, (if I converted to orthodox could I have a proper orthodox baptism?).
Anyway, I'm finding myself more orthodox everyday in belief, but not yet part of the church so I'm not really orthodox.
I guess that you know where I come from, so now I want to hear what you have to say, and why you thought orthodoxy was better than protestantism,sda, and catholicism.

I'll gladly hear what you have to say.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 05:58:43 AM by Christianus » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2010, 06:17:20 AM »

Go to an Orthodox church.  Stand there and pray. Not once but many times.  See if God is calling out to you, or maybe He isn't at this particular time.  So relax, let it go.  He always does call people finally, even years later, in my experience.
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2010, 06:47:36 AM »

Hey everyone, so far My Dad was raised Seven day adventist( I don't believe in Ellen G White), and my mother Roman catholic, and I joined a baptist church a long time ago, got baptized in it, and now I wish I hadn't, (if I converted to orthodox could I have a proper orthodox baptism?).
Anyway, I'm finding myself more orthodox everyday in belief, but not yet part of the church so I'm not really orthodox.
I guess that you know where I come from, so now I want to hear what you have to say, and why you thought orthodoxy was better than protestantism,sda, and catholicism.

I'll gladly hear what you have to say.


By the way I"m 16 right now.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2010, 08:15:36 AM »

Hmm...
"...so try to convince me to become one." "I'm finding myself more orthodox everyday"

Well if you find yourself orthodox everyday and you ask us to convince you? I guess you already convinced yourself Wink My personal opinion is that you should read about orthodox doctrine, and try to learn in by heart if you feel peaceful inside.
I'm not orthodox yet(not baptized) but I read as much as I can from accurate resources. Try to also search others like Lutherans, Anglicans, or Catholizm...and pick whatever sounds and feels right for you. I wouldn't really want to convince anyone about a religion because we are all different people and whatever I feels right for me, may not feel that right for some one else.  Undecided

If you decided to be an orthodox without searching about the doctrine, then I'll say that what you did is not so right because in the future if you realize that orthodoxy was not right for you then you'll look for some other churches to join? That would be exhausting. Undecided

Anyways this is my opinion. I hope you'll find what you are looking for in orthodox church angel
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2010, 10:12:49 AM »

This is a good place for everyone to bring out the funky hat pictures.
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 11:25:46 AM »

No one can convince you of Orthodoxy, really. I have seen people who I never thought would convert convert, and people that looked like shoe-ins for conversion become Hindus (I am not exaggerating).  Christ calls us all to Orthodoxy, but not everyone responds. There are many reasons for this. But from our perspective, Orthodoxy is the truth; if you are seeking the truth, you will arrive; we pray for you, invite you in, and will answer your questions. But *we* won't convince you of anything, most likely.
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 11:39:47 AM »

Hey everyone, so far My Dad was raised Seven day adventist( I don't believe in Ellen G White), and my mother Roman catholic, and I joined a baptist church a long time ago, got baptized in it, and now I wish I hadn't, (if I converted to orthodox could I have a proper orthodox baptism?).
Anyway, I'm finding myself more orthodox everyday in belief, but not yet part of the church so I'm not really orthodox.
I guess that you know where I come from, so now I want to hear what you have to say, and why you thought orthodoxy was better than protestantism,sda, and catholicism.

I'll gladly hear what you have to say.



I had always thought that the Orthodox were the same as the Vatican, just in Greek and with more incense but just as wrong (I was an Evangelical Lutheran at a Latin High School).  My first year at college (U of Chicago)  I stumbled across the article on Orthodoxy in the Encyclopedia Britannica, and found myself saying with every line "that's right, that's right."  It wasn't until later that year that an agnostic friend asked why I wasn't Orthodox since I agree with them that I thought about it (Protestants for the most part have no concept of ecclesiology).

As for "better" than Protestants, I take it you mean "correct" in theology. The mess that is Protestantism, splintering and being swept into secularism (and in some ways the Evangelicals on the Right are the other side of the same secular coin)....what Protestant church can date itself further than 500 years?  that leaves 1500 years to explain where Christ was, as He said "I am with you always (lit. all the days) until the end of the age."  And how, if Protestantism claims that the Church fell and had to be reformed, when did that happen.  We find the Orthodox Church as we have her now in place by the time of Nicea I. But that I mean the fact that the Nicea I acknowledged-NOT created-the Church as we now know her.  That means that that fall would have happened between 100 (death of last Apostle) to 325.  So how is it that the Protestant "reformers", whose churches now are hunderds of years old founded churches against which the gates of hell have not prevailed, but Christ and His Apostles were not able?  How is it that Christ's Church lasted only to at most 324, and Martin Luther's from 1517 till present?

For the Vatican, the fact that the Pope of Rome called none of the Ecumenical Coucils, presided over none, his legates presiding over none (a argument can be made for Chalcedon), none of the other patriarchs needed his approval to take their see (indeed the facts surrounding St. Meleitos and St. Flavian of Antioch around the Second Ecumenical Council-held by Fathers not in communion with Rome at the time-show they did so at times over Rome's opposition), etc. in other words the papacy did not operate in the first millenium as Vatican I and II would have it.  And if papal supremacy goes down, it takes the Vatican down with it.

SDA, I'm not as familiar with. I did one time give an Orthodox chaplain quotes from the first century of the Church that showed that the Christians celebrated Sunday, not the Seventh Day.  In fact St. Ignatius talks about the Jews giving up the seventh day for Sunday "the Lord's day."
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 12:19:06 PM »

Also I forgot to say, don't be an Orthodox because we convinced you so...Be an orthodox because you feel peaceful inside and because you find it right.
Convincing someone to believe something is, I think, the wildest thing ever. It's destroying the freedom of belief. You have the right to believe or not to believe because you are a human being. No body can convince you to believe something which doesn't seems right for you, well no one should.. Wink

Blessings.. angel
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 01:10:13 PM »

What Fr Anastasios said is correct. We will never convince you to become Orthodox; the Holy Spirit will.
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 01:22:27 PM »

Well, it looks like you want to become, but you don't yet have enough reasonable proof or something? Maybe you don't know yet much about it, hm?

Start with your local Orthodox parish and find a priest to discuss the subject thoroughly.
Keep on saying the Jesus Prayer. You may also feel find comfort in Orthodox hymnography. It's easy to fall in love with Divine poetry.

When you feel that you are getting closer to Christ, start with some Dogmatics; learn the basic doctrines, what things make the Orthodox Church so unique and true.

And remember that the Orthodox Church is not a religion, but a practical psychotherapy that aims to heal you! It has already healed millions of people! Wink
You will always believe that the Orthodox dogmas are just some fundamental beliefs of the Church, if you don't get to live them for yourself. This is the basic principle in Orthodoxy; praxis.

Feel free to open a topic as you're searching for out faith. Everyone here is eager to help you.
God bless!
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 01:23:03 PM »

Quote
I guess that you know where I come from, so now I want to hear what you have to say, and why you thought orthodoxy was better than protestantism,sda, and catholicism.

Well, let me summarize, and I can give more details on particular points if they are wanted. Years ago I had left Protestantism, but wasn't sure where I would be going for a Church. Eventually I was persuaded, mostly by looking at the New Testament, that God had intended a Church to be founded. So it became an issue of finding that Church. For mostly historical and theological reasons, I narrowed it down to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy*, and eventually converted to Orthodoxy. I came to believe that Eastern Orthodoxy was the Church that God/Jesus/Apostles had founded, so for me it was the natural place to go to. In theory, it didn't matter if I didn't agree with or understand something that Orthodoxy taught, because if it was being guided by God then I just had to trust it. Now, in practice it hasn't been that simple, but that doesn't mean the theory isn't valid.


*I was only vaguely aware of Oriental Orthodoxy at the time, and there wouldn't have been an OO parish close to me anyway.
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 01:38:32 PM »

What Fr Anastasios said is correct. We will never convince you to become Orthodox; the Holy Spirit will.

I'm with Frs. Anastasios and Chris on this one.

If someone has to convince you, then you are not ready.  You may never be, because Orthodoxy is difficult and if you require someone to do all the heavy lifting for you, then you are either too young or immature.  Given your age, it is very understandable.  Sixteen-year-olds are by definition immature (or worse in my own case).  You will need time to better understand yourself and what you are really looking for.

If you are looking for self-justification, then the Church is not the right place for you.

If you are looking for a paradise where you can escape your problems with having to change, then the Church is not the right place for you.

If you are looking for an unusual experience that will provide countless hours of excitement and entertainment, then the Church is not the right place for you.

If you think the Church is one of many equally appealing faith from which you can choose, then the Church is not the right place for you.

This may sound a bit dramatic, but the Church is the final option for those who truly convert.  It is the place we come to when we realize that there is nowhere else to go and there are no other options.  Like the woman with the issue of blood, when you run out of all other hope, then you are ready for the divine experience of the Church, which comes through repentence and transformation inspired by the Holy Spirit.  This is not at all easy, but it is totally impossible without the grace of God we receive through the Church.

Your life will undoubtedly become harder in the Church, because you will find yourself at odds with satan, and satan has a lot of tools to use against you.  But, more especially, you will have to do battle with yourself, and more often than not, you will lose.  However, God will continue to save you if you refuse to give up on Him.

You may also find that, after years of impossible and unforeseen circumstances miraculously survived, that you have never had so much inner peace and genuine happiness.  I have never been happier than I am now, despite illness and loads of common and uncommon problems.  My legs aches for all the blessings I have, and I am pretty sure that tomorrow will be better though not easier.

I love God and am learning to love Him more because I know that I don't love Him enough.  Nothing that I have that is good do I deserve, and the Church has taught me to be grateful for everything, even the hardships.

In summary, don't convert until you are ready to work hard for the truth... about yourself and God.

In any case, God have mercy on you!

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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2010, 03:09:57 PM »

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.(Luk 11:10)  Wink
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2010, 06:14:51 PM »

The ancient church used to have a three-year catechumenate. So why not attend Orthodox churches for two years, and if you still feel this way after two years, become a catechumen? By that point, you should know what issues you might have to address before you come in full communion with the church, and what you will and won’t need convincing of.

Parenthetically, this advice is based on the fact that most folks I’ve known who made the switch had a one-year catechumenate. It is, by the way, what I am currently doing.

That said, Fr. Anastasios said is right. Only the Holy Spirit is going to ultimately convince you.

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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2010, 06:33:20 PM »

You are very young. This decision will effect how you live the rest of your earthly life and thereafter. I say take your time and don't rush into anything, no matter how tempting it may be. Your patience will pay off in the end.
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2010, 06:35:48 PM »

FatherGiryus, what a wise post!
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2010, 07:14:07 PM »

I'm in agreement with everyone else on here. No one is going to be able to convince you with arguments. You're best bet is to just start going to the liturgy every sunday. A church that does everything in english would be your best bet. Start a regular cycle of prayer, for example in the morning when you wake up and at night before going to bed. If you have questions regarding doctrine or practice you can always ask a priest, find information somewhere, or find or start a thread here. There quite a few people on here who either converted from some form of Protestantism or are in the process of converting that might be able to offer explanations that helped them or might be able to help you. It has been my experience that the majority of arguments that Protestants have against Orthodoxy are based from a misunderstanding of the actual doctrine or practice to begin with.
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2010, 09:59:26 PM »

What if I find peace in Orthodoxy in my heart but have Catholicism in my brain.

Is their any scripture passages that would help choose between the heart and mind?
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2010, 10:08:00 PM »


Hey everyone, so far My Dad was raised Seven day adventist( I don't believe in Ellen G White), and my mother Roman catholic, and I joined a baptist church a long time ago, got baptized in it, and now I wish I hadn't, (if I converted to orthodox could I have a proper orthodox baptism?).
Anyway, I'm finding myself more orthodox everyday in belief, but not yet part of the church so I'm not really orthodox.
I guess that you know where I come from, so now I want to hear what you have to say, and why you thought orthodoxy was better than protestantism,sda, and catholicism.

I'll gladly hear what you have to say.

SDA is Protestant.

Orthodoxy is Catholicism.
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2010, 10:10:27 PM »


What if I find peace in Orthodoxy in my heart but have Catholicism in my brain.

Is their any scripture passages that would help choose between the heart and mind?

First it would be good if you would elaborate on what you mean by this.
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2010, 10:29:47 PM »


What if I find peace in Orthodoxy in my heart but have Catholicism in my brain.

Is their any scripture passages that would help choose between the heart and mind?

First it would be good if you would elaborate on what you mean by this.

Yes, sorry. It might be easiest if I give some examples.

If I listen to someone like Steve Ray or Tim Staples make the case for Catholicism, my mind is satisfied. But if I listen to the Coffee Cup podcast or read Metropolitan Ware, my heart is satisfied.

Does that make sense?

If I read
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2010, 10:36:05 PM »

Sparrow, join the ACOE (Assyrian Church of the East). The Church which speaks Jesus's language, Aramaic and the Orthodox New Testament (the Peshitta, see my avatar ).

As noted in a later warning given for this, Proselytism is forbidden on OC.net.  Be advised for the future.
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2010, 10:37:39 PM »


What if I find peace in Orthodoxy in my heart but have Catholicism in my brain.

Is their any scripture passages that would help choose between the heart and mind?

First it would be good if you would elaborate on what you mean by this.

Yes, sorry. It might be easiest if I give some examples.

If I listen to someone like Steve Ray or Tim Staples make the case for Catholicism, my mind is satisfied. But if I listen to the Coffee Cup podcast or read Metropolitan Ware, my heart is satisfied.

Does that make sense?

If I read

Does the latter inclination have anything to do with it sounding "reasonable" or "right"?
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2010, 10:38:17 PM »


Sparrow, join the ACOE (Assyrian Church of the East). The Church which speaks Jesus's language, Aramaic and the Orthodox New Testament (the Peshitta, see my avatar ).

Can't you do any better than that?
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2010, 10:40:33 PM »

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Can't you do any better than that?

The church which is older than the OO despotate instituted by heresiarchs. Grin
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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2010, 10:48:38 PM »

Does the latter inclination have anything to do with it sounding "reasonable" or "right"?

Yes. It feels right.
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2010, 10:50:53 PM »

Whatever you do sparrow, just avoid protestants and also cults which cannot prove their succession. We live in the times of the great apostasy. I know you will love the ideas of the ACOE and its history.
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2010, 10:56:26 PM »

Whatever you do sparrow, just avoid protestants and also cults which cannot prove their succession. We live in the times of the great apostasy. I know you will love the ideas of the ACOE and its history.

Thank you, Raffa. I admire Protestant zeal, but I've never felt or thought that they were where I should be.
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2010, 11:19:05 PM »

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Can't you do any better than that?

The church which is older than the OO despotate instituted by heresiarchs. Grin

What do you mean by "despotate"?
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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2010, 11:20:05 PM »

What if I find peace in Orthodoxy in my heart but have Catholicism in my brain.

Is their any scripture passages that would help choose between the heart and mind?

The best I can think of is Mark 12:30

Quote
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Scripture says we're supposed to use both to draw near to God. I know this probably doesn't help much. What is it exactly that draws you either way? Maybe the most important question, where do you find Christ and draw near to him?
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« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2010, 11:21:08 PM »

Does the latter inclination have anything to do with it sounding "reasonable" or "right"?

Yes. It feels right.

But on a rational/intellectual level you are convinced of Romanism?
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2010, 11:32:04 PM »

Sparrow, join the ACOE (Assyrian Church of the East). The Church which speaks Jesus's language, Aramaic and the Orthodox New Testament (the Peshitta, see my avatar ).
Rafa999, you do realize that attempts to draw persons into your jurisdiction are forbidden on this forum?  If not, I recommend that you read the following policy statement to this effect:

Proselytism and Forum Plugging hereby banned (created "NC" Nov 24, 2003) - UPDATED BELOW! - See Reply #1
Friends,

From now on, banners in signatures to other forums are not allowed although you may link to another forum or website in your signature, without comment.

From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

Proselytizing people to your jurisdiction is no longer allowed.  I don't care if it is the GOA or the ROAC, we don't exist to give spiritual advice, but rather to discuss spiritual matters. There is a healthy distinction.  If you feel the need to plug your group then do it by private message.

You may not private message others to solicit them to join your forum, however.  We have the ability to read other people's private messages (this is disclosed in the member agreement you sign when joining the forum) and we don't do that usually, but we can, and we will, if we think you are trying to lure people away from our site.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.  From a human standpoint I would be lying if I said that some people in particular did not precipitate this action BUT at the same time there have been others over the past 1.5 years who have done this as well, so it is not just based on a knee-jerk reaction.

Stay tuned for an even more indepth statement on proselytism to be issued soon by all of us Admins.

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« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 11:33:37 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
militantsparrow
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« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2010, 11:37:12 PM »

Does the latter inclination have anything to do with it sounding "reasonable" or "right"?

Yes. It feels right.

But on a rational/intellectual level you are convinced of Romanism?

Satisfied but not convinced. I'm a flip flopper. With Catholicism I have to be convinced by surrounding myself with Catholic conversion stories and apologetics. I will feel very at ease where I'm at. But as soon as I come back here or listen to Ancient Faith Radio and without any apologetics I find myself drawn to Orthodoxy again.
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"Yeah, the sparrow hath found an house..." -Psalm 84:3
militantsparrow
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2010, 12:09:03 AM »

The best I can think of is Mark 12:30

Quote
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Scripture says we're supposed to use both to draw near to God. I know this probably doesn't help much. What is it exactly that draws you either way? Maybe the most important question, where do you find Christ and draw near to him?

Thank you. It does help.
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"Yeah, the sparrow hath found an house..." -Psalm 84:3
Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2010, 01:59:49 AM »

Thank you. It does help.

Can I pray for you quickly?

Most Holy Mary, the Mother of God, please guide your servant militantsparrow into the arms of your Son by your powerful prayers.

Lord Jesus Christ, guide the footsteps of your servant, and lead him into your eternal kingdom.

Amen.
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Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2010, 02:31:18 AM »

Satisfied but not convinced. I'm a flip flopper. With Catholicism I have to be convinced by surrounding myself with Catholic conversion stories and apologetics. I will feel very at ease where I'm at. But as soon as I come back here or listen to Ancient Faith Radio and without any apologetics I find myself drawn to Orthodoxy again.

In the old days, before the more relaxed attitudes stemming from Vatican II took hold in the Catholic world, it was nearly always the position of the Pope which kept potential converts to Orthodoxy flipflopping.    Belief in the necessity of being in communion with the Pope and under obedience to him ran so deeply that people had a genuine sneaking fear that abandoning him deliberately might endanger their salvation.

Do some people still feel that way?

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« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2010, 04:22:56 AM »

Thanks everyone, so tomorrow I"m going to a Greek orthodox Church.

I want to ask you guys a question.
Doesn't Vatican 2 say that non-Christians get to go to heaven, if not, does the roman catholic church believe this?
and do Orthodox people believe such things as Muslims going to heaven?

Personally I believe this verse,
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

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« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2010, 04:27:16 AM »

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

We all believe it as well.  If a pious Muslim is saved on that dreadful day, it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 04:27:30 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2010, 04:46:53 AM »

AS to the salvation of those who have not consciously rejected Him, we have the words of St. Theophan the Recluse to guide us into a correct Orthodox understanding:


"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them?
They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being.
He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such
concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however:
should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray
Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever
."


And there are the words of the holy Metropolitan Philaret who was the First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad when I was a young man and a very conservative theologian.  He is here speaking of heretical Christians but I would think he would say the same about the Jews:


"It is self evident, however, that sincere Christians who are Roman
Catholics, or Lutherans, or members, of other non-Orthodox
confessions, cannot be termed renegades or heretics—i.e. those who
knowingly pervert the truth... They have been born and raised and are
living according to the creed which they have inherited, just as do
the majority of you who are Orthodox; in their lives there has not
been a moment of personal and conscious renunciation of Orthodoxy. The
Lord, "Who will have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4) and "Who
enlightens every man born into the world" (Jn. 1.43), undoubtedly is
leading them also towards salvation In His own way."


N.B:  "The Lord...undoubtedly is leading them also towards salvation
In His own way."




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theotokos
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« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2010, 05:47:09 AM »

Thanks everyone, so tomorrow I"m going to a Greek orthodox Church.

I want to ask you guys a question.
Doesn't Vatican 2 say that non-Christians get to go to heaven, if not, does the roman catholic church believe this?
and do Orthodox people believe such things as Muslims going to heaven?

Personally I believe this verse,
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



As a former Muslim let me reply to that Smiley Muslims believe in Jesus, Mohammad and other prophets.. That's probably why some orthodox people said this.

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!(Baqara 87)

Well they say that, but do they really obey this? Nope...
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militantsparrow
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« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2010, 10:26:56 AM »

Can I pray for you quickly?

Most Holy Mary, the Mother of God, please guide your servant militantsparrow into the arms of your Son by your powerful prayers.

Lord Jesus Christ, guide the footsteps of your servant, and lead him into your eternal kingdom.

Amen.

Amen. Thank you.
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militantsparrow
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« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2010, 10:49:02 AM »

Thanks everyone, so tomorrow I"m going to a Greek orthodox Church.

Please let us know what you think.
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« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2010, 11:22:26 AM »

Thanks everyone, so tomorrow I"m going to a Greek orthodox Church.

I want to ask you guys a question.
Doesn't Vatican 2 say that non-Christians get to go to heaven, if not, does the roman catholic church believe this?
and do Orthodox people believe such things as Muslims going to heaven?

Personally I believe this verse,
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



As a former Muslim let me reply to that Smiley Muslims believe in Jesus, Mohammad and other prophets.. That's probably why some orthodox people said this.

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!(Baqara 87)

Well they say that, but do they really obey this? Nope...
Yes, the hitch is that the Muslims do not believe what Moses or Jesus said, but what MUHAMMAD said Moses and Jesus said.
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2010, 11:46:36 AM »

Yes, the hitch is that the Muslims do not believe what Moses or Jesus said, but what MUHAMMAD said Moses and Jesus said.

You totally got the typical idea of a Muslim... Wink
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Christianus
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« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2010, 05:16:51 PM »

Well I went to a Greek orthodox Church today, my whole family was amazed.
My Dad basically ended up believing that all churches should worship like the orthodox,me I got to go to the orthodox church for the first time, and my uncle who's always ecclesiastically implacable( I still don't know what church he believes in, even though he says he's christian) was amazed.

I just can't call myself baptist anymore, I don't believe it anymore, nor can I call myself Roman Catholic because I don't believe in the Pope, and I was so disappointed, when they stopped using Latin in favor of local language, I spent years studying Latin duos annos latinae studendae egi, I felt like the catholic church turned its back on us Latin speaking Christians,just abandoned us.

The worship is just as I imagined it, no rock bands, and other mundane worshiping fads.
There was a nice guy who showed and informed us about the Icons, who asked my uncle if he was orthodox, my uncle answered, I'm non-denominational, the guy who's the uscher I think, said, well we're pre-denominational.

Some popadya ( I forgot the greek word for the priest's wife so here's the russian one) told us that half the church was gone to some Greek dance or something.
Yeah, I was amazed too, I wish I had more time to ask questions, but my Dad and uncle wanted to go.
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