Author Topic: Ecumenism (opinion on news)  (Read 103400 times)

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Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #315 on: January 23, 2010, 03:30:21 AM »


"Knowing Catholicism is be servants of Satan,....Church of Demons..."    Are you for real or just playing games with poor GBMS? 

The later Father...  ;D
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #316 on: January 23, 2010, 05:44:54 AM »

Why not instead rest in the unity that you despise us.

I can't think of any indication I've given that I despise you.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #317 on: January 23, 2010, 05:46:56 AM »

Ecuminism is the religion of the Anti-Christ. One Religion, One Economy, One Government. Thats what they are aiming at, to destroy the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

You do not want the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church to be the one world religion?

What I mean is the one church which was in the beginning, the church of the seventy apostles.
The Same Doctrines and Dogmas.
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html

This ecuminism is anti-christ, it the anti-christ religion:
This man will tell you about what you REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGjxtEn_UXA

Please be careful

You seemed to condemn in your original post the general idea of there being one world religion.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #318 on: January 23, 2010, 05:48:02 AM »

When did Jack Chick start pretending to be Orthodox?

 :laugh:

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #319 on: January 23, 2010, 01:25:48 PM »

Why not instead rest in the unity that you despise us.

I can't think of any indication I've given that I despise you.

You don't despise 'me' because you don't 'see me' as a human being... you see me as a category... this is one of the real problems with polemics... it takes individuals and dehumanizes them into categories. I am not Francis-Christopher devout strugglers against his own personal sin through the Spiritual Traditions of the Western Church... I am a Romanist who is blindly serving a tyrannical upstart anti-Christ Church. Every sin, every evil that can be brought up to alienate and divide is done to separate and incriminate. To prove to yourself and others that I cannot be worthy of respect as a fellow Christian and follower of Christ. No, I must join 'you' and wear 'your' team shirt to be accepted. That is really where this kind of exclusivity leads. It creates a environment where everyone spends 'most' of their time worrying about the 'errors' of others and leaves us both poorer for the labor because we have ceased to see ourselves as on a spiritual journey seeking greater intimacy with God and we have projected our sense of holiness to our intellectual adherence to one side of a historic struggle to claim Christianity it's own private property.

I honestly can understand, because I too like to grasp at things. I want ownership too. It sates my ego to have it, it makes me feel like I am holy and good servant of the Lord. My only problem, and yours as well as others, is that Our Lord didn't say The Kingdom of God is 'out there'... He said 'The Kingdom of God is within you'. Because you want exclusive rights to that Kingdom, you must deny me and you must convince me that I lack something that you have. Only then will I agree with you and through that agreement I convince you that you have what I lack.

One of the earliest saints in Christianity, St. Stephen, said that "the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands" (Acts 7:48). The passage is a way of saying that reality is not limited to that which humans can comprehend, and God cannot be limited to the things of Earth. Though God is worshiped in temples and churches (actually, it was primarily in houses in the earliest days), His Reality exceeds anything in the world, for the world is characterized by limited comprehension. The Apostle Paul spoke similarly in Athens:

The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by men (Acts 17:24).

Though He is originator and creator of all that lives, God lives beyond the world. Nothing in the limited experience of the human being is sufficiently great or expansive to hold the fullness of God. The body's eyes cannot see it, and the limited conceptual mind cannot get around it. The body's eyes see only bodies, the conceptual mind thinks only of itself, and the self is caught up in a circle closed upon itself. The sense-oriented tend to look for the Divine, if they look for it at all, in places it could not possibly be.

And so St. Paul states emphatically, "Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? (1 Cor. 3:16).

God is Spirit, and so must His House be Spirit. This why St. Paul can say in another of his letters that the true Self, like the true dwelling place of God, is "a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" (2 Cor. 5:1). No earthly tend - neither the body nor the physical church - is required to worship God in the Spirit, though it might indeed be very helpful, for it could serve as a vehicle to the non-sensory understanding of oneself as a Spiritual Being with God.

This relationship is ultimately not determined by how many icons we have on our walls or even how wonderfully organized and well done our worship is. It is not ultimately determined by how much gold we have painted on our walls. All those things can do, is aid us or distract us from seeking Him where He is most profoundly discovered... within our hearts. This is what the Desert Fathers knew all too well and it is what they taught. Truth is not a something, that we possess because of our Traditions, no, Truth is somebody whom seizes us in the depth of our hearts and claims our Spirit as His and heals us from all this pettiness.

Ultimately, Ecumenism, true Ecumenism is this act amongst brothers and sisters. The rest is more or less garbage that scavengers fight over. We see them for what they are even when we think they are one of our own. When the Kingdom of God became the Empire of Rome, spiritual men and women shivered with fear because they knew that for the carnal man this would serve to blind them to the true Kingdom of God within. True Devotion to God mingled with Devotion to the empire, culture, and yes even race. I clearly see this in the slavish devotion Ultramontanists have for the Papacy but I also see thing in the slavish devotion the Orthodox have for the Romanticized vision of their Christian Empire in the East as well as their slavishness to outward signs of devotion.  :-\

As many of the Saints have warned us, Latin and Greek alike, to know 'true' devotion we must know our hearts. We sin in our pride just as easily making prostrations as we do lording over our co-workers when they ask us something that they don't know. I am not saying prostrations are bad, for they are not. As St. Paul says, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful". For some Orthodoxy as a religion practice 'humbles' but for others it makes them prideful and haughty. I like a lot of the practices of Orthodox as well as it's antiquity but we cannot escape our own sinfulness by changing traditions. We cannot lose our vices by separating ourselves from the vices of others. I think many attempt this but in the end within personal spiritual labor we find ourselves unprofitable. Now if we find a community which takes seriously the spiritual life, we can find help on our journey I think that is a good thing. I don't pretend to think Catholicism is prefect... as one who frequents other religious community forums I am repeatedly reminded of the failings of the Roman Catholic Church and her Popes. My belief in God and in His Son Jesus Christ has never been shaken and that is a real blessing but it also means that my Faith is not determined by my worldly elegance to this side or that side of any political or cultural struggle. I try to walk by faith, personally, not through an institution surrogate. I am catholic because I am Christian, I am not Christian because I am catholic. I think many get this a bit confused. Where I find fidelity to the Christian way of life demonstrated in the fruits of the Spirit I rejoice, I don't attempt to explain it away so that I can claim exclusive rights to God's favor. I think that is most unChristian. We are to know them that are His by their fruits. I think this is way Ecumenism is so hated by many because it undermines our claims to exclusive rights to God and so Catholics and Orthodox start jumping up and down like little brats having a tantrum. It is not 'zeal' from which this is born, it is the passions and a lack of Meekness toward our brothers and sisters.

I am an Ecumenist not because I think all traditions are equally nourishing for the spiritual life but because we, as human beings, are all equally loved by God and called to live a virtuous life in His Spirit. Where I find those fruits and where I find them abundantly I rejoice and I seek to grow and be fruitful myself but this bitterness, and spite, and hatred is not of the Spirit in my humble opinion.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #320 on: January 23, 2010, 08:09:49 PM »

Why not instead rest in the unity that you despise us.

I can't think of any indication I've given that I despise you.

You don't despise 'me' because you don't 'see me' as a human being... you see me as a category... this is one of the real problems with polemics... it takes individuals and dehumanizes them into categories. I am not Francis-Christopher devout strugglers against his own personal sin through the Spiritual Traditions of the Western Church... I am a Romanist who is blindly serving a tyrannical upstart anti-Christ Church. Every sin, every evil that can be brought up to alienate and divide is done to separate and incriminate. To prove to yourself and others that I cannot be worthy of respect as a fellow Christian and follower of Christ. No, I must join 'you' and wear 'your' team shirt to be accepted. That is really where this kind of exclusivity leads. It creates a environment where everyone spends 'most' of their time worrying about the 'errors' of others and leaves us both poorer for the labor because we have ceased to see ourselves as on a spiritual journey seeking greater intimacy with God and we have projected our sense of holiness to our intellectual adherence to one side of a historic struggle to claim Christianity it's own private property.

I honestly can understand, because I too like to grasp at things. I want ownership too. It sates my ego to have it, it makes me feel like I am holy and good servant of the Lord. My only problem, and yours as well as others, is that Our Lord didn't say The Kingdom of God is 'out there'... He said 'The Kingdom of God is within you'. Because you want exclusive rights to that Kingdom, you must deny me and you must convince me that I lack something that you have. Only then will I agree with you and through that agreement I convince you that you have what I lack.

One of the earliest saints in Christianity, St. Stephen, said that "the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands" (Acts 7:48). The passage is a way of saying that reality is not limited to that which humans can comprehend, and God cannot be limited to the things of Earth. Though God is worshiped in temples and churches (actually, it was primarily in houses in the earliest days), His Reality exceeds anything in the world, for the world is characterized by limited comprehension. The Apostle Paul spoke similarly in Athens:

The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by men (Acts 17:24).

Though He is originator and creator of all that lives, God lives beyond the world. Nothing in the limited experience of the human being is sufficiently great or expansive to hold the fullness of God. The body's eyes cannot see it, and the limited conceptual mind cannot get around it. The body's eyes see only bodies, the conceptual mind thinks only of itself, and the self is caught up in a circle closed upon itself. The sense-oriented tend to look for the Divine, if they look for it at all, in places it could not possibly be.

And so St. Paul states emphatically, "Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? (1 Cor. 3:16).

God is Spirit, and so must His House be Spirit. This why St. Paul can say in another of his letters that the true Self, like the true dwelling place of God, is "a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" (2 Cor. 5:1). No earthly tend - neither the body nor the physical church - is required to worship God in the Spirit, though it might indeed be very helpful, for it could serve as a vehicle to the non-sensory understanding of oneself as a Spiritual Being with God.

This relationship is ultimately not determined by how many icons we have on our walls or even how wonderfully organized and well done our worship is. It is not ultimately determined by how much gold we have painted on our walls. All those things can do, is aid us or distract us from seeking Him where He is most profoundly discovered... within our hearts. This is what the Desert Fathers knew all too well and it is what they taught. Truth is not a something, that we possess because of our Traditions, no, Truth is somebody whom seizes us in the depth of our hearts and claims our Spirit as His and heals us from all this pettiness.

Ultimately, Ecumenism, true Ecumenism is this act amongst brothers and sisters. The rest is more or less garbage that scavengers fight over. We see them for what they are even when we think they are one of our own. When the Kingdom of God became the Empire of Rome, spiritual men and women shivered with fear because they knew that for the carnal man this would serve to blind them to the true Kingdom of God within. True Devotion to God mingled with Devotion to the empire, culture, and yes even race. I clearly see this in the slavish devotion Ultramontanists have for the Papacy but I also see thing in the slavish devotion the Orthodox have for the Romanticized vision of their Christian Empire in the East as well as their slavishness to outward signs of devotion.  :-\

As many of the Saints have warned us, Latin and Greek alike, to know 'true' devotion we must know our hearts. We sin in our pride just as easily making prostrations as we do lording over our co-workers when they ask us something that they don't know. I am not saying prostrations are bad, for they are not. As St. Paul says, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful". For some Orthodoxy as a religion practice 'humbles' but for others it makes them prideful and haughty. I like a lot of the practices of Orthodox as well as it's antiquity but we cannot escape our own sinfulness by changing traditions. We cannot lose our vices by separating ourselves from the vices of others. I think many attempt this but in the end within personal spiritual labor we find ourselves unprofitable. Now if we find a community which takes seriously the spiritual life, we can find help on our journey I think that is a good thing. I don't pretend to think Catholicism is prefect... as one who frequents other religious community forums I am repeatedly reminded of the failings of the Roman Catholic Church and her Popes. My belief in God and in His Son Jesus Christ has never been shaken and that is a real blessing but it also means that my Faith is not determined by my worldly elegance to this side or that side of any political or cultural struggle. I try to walk by faith, personally, not through an institution surrogate. I am catholic because I am Christian, I am not Christian because I am catholic. I think many get this a bit confused. Where I find fidelity to the Christian way of life demonstrated in the fruits of the Spirit I rejoice, I don't attempt to explain it away so that I can claim exclusive rights to God's favor. I think that is most unChristian. We are to know them that are His by their fruits. I think this is way Ecumenism is so hated by many because it undermines our claims to exclusive rights to God and so Catholics and Orthodox start jumping up and down like little brats having a tantrum. It is not 'zeal' from which this is born, it is the passions and a lack of Meekness toward our brothers and sisters.

I am an Ecumenist not because I think all traditions are equally nourishing for the spiritual life but because we, as human beings, are all equally loved by God and called to live a virtuous life in His Spirit. Where I find those fruits and where I find them abundantly I rejoice and I seek to grow and be fruitful myself but this bitterness, and spite, and hatred is not of the Spirit in my humble opinion.

You're again making insane assumptions about me and my motivations.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #321 on: January 23, 2010, 10:11:30 PM »

One of the earliest saints in Christianity, St. Stephen, said that "the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands" (Acts 7:48). The passage is a way of saying that reality is not limited to that which humans can comprehend, and God cannot be limited to the things of Earth.

That seems a really poor exegesis. It seems like the message is more simple and particular than that: an overthrow of the idea that God's presence was particular to the Holy of Holies in the Temple and that He know dwells in the body of the believers.

Offline Get_Behind_Me_Satan

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #322 on: January 23, 2010, 10:40:19 PM »
Masons in orthodoxy, the church is on fire!
http://mymartyrdom.com/orthomason.htm
“The testimonies of the western teachers I neither recognize or accept. I surmise that they are corrupted.
There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.”

St Mark Of Ephesus, Doctor of the church. (True Church)

Down with ecumenism!

Offline Get_Behind_Me_Satan

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #323 on: January 23, 2010, 10:45:54 PM »
Pope + Papal Inquisition + Ecumenism = Religion of the Anti-Christ
“The testimonies of the western teachers I neither recognize or accept. I surmise that they are corrupted.
There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.”

St Mark Of Ephesus, Doctor of the church. (True Church)

Down with ecumenism!

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #324 on: January 23, 2010, 10:55:34 PM »
All I can tell either one of you, is if and when I enter into Orthodoxy I will still think that you two are way too freaky for me to agree with. Sorry.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #325 on: January 23, 2010, 11:21:23 PM »
This is the message from His Holyness Pope Benedict XVI in his audience of wednesday january 20th on the week of prayer forChristian Unity, the traduction to english is not yet available, as sonn as I get it I will bring it here.

UDIENZA GENERALE

Aula Paolo VI
Mercoledì, 20 gennaio 2010  

 [Video]

 

Settimana di Preghiera per l'Unità dei Cristiani

Cari fratelli e sorelle!

Siamo al centro della Settimana di Preghiera per l’Unità dei Cristiani, un’iniziativa ecumenica, che si è andata strutturando ormai da oltre un secolo, e che attira ogni anno l’attenzione su un tema, quello dell’unità visibile tra i cristiani, che coinvolge la coscienza e stimola l’impegno di quanti credono in Cristo. E lo fa innanzitutto con l’invito alla preghiera, ad imitazione di Gesù stesso, che chiede al Padre per i suoi discepoli “Siano uno, affinché il mondo creda” (Gv 17,21). Il richiamo perseverante alla preghiera per la piena comunione tra i seguaci del Signore manifesta l’orientamento più autentico e più profondo dell’intera ricerca ecumenica, perché l’unità, prima di tutto, è dono di Dio. Infatti, come afferma il Concilio Vaticano Secondo: “il santo proposito di riconciliare tutti i cristiani nell’unica Chiesa di Cristo, una e unica, supera tutte le forze umane” (Unitatis Redintegratio, 24). Pertanto, oltre al nostro sforzo di sviluppare relazioni fraterne e promuovere il dialogo per chiarire e risolvere le divergenze che separano le Chiese e le Comunità ecclesiali, è necessaria la fiduciosa e concorde invocazione al Signore.

Il tema di quest’anno è preso dal Vangelo di san Luca, dalle ultime parole del Risorto ai suoi discepoli “Di questo voi siete testimoni” (Lc 24,48). La proposta del tema è stata chiesta dal Pontificio Consiglio per la Promozione dell’Unità dei Cristiani, in accordo con la Commissione Fede e Costituzione del Consiglio Ecumenico delle Chiese, ad un gruppo ecumenico della Scozia. Un secolo fa la Conferenza Mondiale per la considerazione dei problemi in riferimento al mondo non cristiano ebbe luogo proprio ad Edimburgo, in Scozia, dal 13 al 24 giugno 1910. Tra i problemi allora discussi vi fu quello della difficoltà oggettiva di proporre con credibilità l’annuncio evangelico al mondo non cristiano da parte dei cristiani divisi tra loro. Se ad un mondo che non conosce Cristo, che si è allontanato da Lui o che si mostra indifferente al Vangelo, i cristiani si presentano non uniti, anzi spesso contrapposti, sarà credibile l’annuncio di Cristo come unico Salvatore del mondo e nostra pace? Il rapporto fra unità e missione da quel momento ha rappresentato una dimensione essenziale dell’intera azione ecumenica e il suo punto di partenza. Ed è per questo specifico apporto che quella Conferenza di Edimburgo rimane come uno dei punti fermi dell’ecumenismo moderno. La Chiesa Cattolica, nel Concilio Vaticano II, riprese e ribadì con vigore questa prospettiva, affermando che la divisione tra i discepoli di Gesù “non solo contraddice apertamente alla volontà di Cristo, ma anche è di scandalo al mondo e danneggia la santissima causa della predicazione del Vangelo ad ogni creatura” (Unitatis Redintegratio, 1).

In tale contesto teologico e spirituale si situa il tema proposto in questa Settimana per la meditazione e la preghiera: l’esigenza di una testimonianza comune a Cristo. Il breve testo proposto come tema “Di questo voi siete testimoni” è da leggere nel contesto dell’intero capitolo 24 del Vangelo secondo Luca. Ricordiamo brevemente il contenuto di questo capitolo. Prima le donne si recano al sepolcro, vedono i segni della Risurrezione di Gesù e annunciano quanto hanno visto agli Apostoli e agli altri discepoli (v. 8); poi lo stesso Risorto appare ai discepoli di Emmaus lungo il cammino, appare a Simon Pietro e successivamente, agli “Undici e agli altri che erano con loro” (v. 33). Egli apre la mente alla comprensione delle Scritture circa la sua Morte redentrice e la sua Risurrezione, affermando che “nel suo nome saranno predicati a tutte le genti la conversione e il perdono dei peccati” (v. 47). Ai discepoli che si trovano “riuniti” insieme e che sono stati testimoni della sua missione, il Signore Risorto promette il dono dello Spirito Santo (cfr v. 49), affinché insieme lo testimonino a tutti i popoli. Da tale imperativo – “Di tutto ciò”, di questo voi siete testimoni (cfr Lc 24,48) -, che è il tema di questa Settimana per l’unità dei cristiani, nascono per noi due domande. La prima: cosa è “tutto ciò”? La seconda: come possiamo noi essere testimoni di “tutto ciò”?

Se vediamo il contesto del capitolo, “tutto ciò” vuole dire innanzitutto la Croce e la Risurrezione: i discepoli hanno visto la crocifissione del Signore, vedono il Risorto e così cominciano a capire tutte le Scritture che parlano del mistero della Passione e del dono della Risurrezione. “Tutto ciò” quindi è il mistero di Cristo, del Figlio di Dio fattosi uomo, morto per noi e risorto, vivo per sempre e così garanzia della nostra vita eterna.

Ma conoscendo Cristo – questo è il punto essenziale - conosciamo il volto di Dio. Cristo è soprattutto la rivelazione di Dio. In tutti i tempi, gli uomini percepiscono l’esistenza di Dio, un Dio unico, ma che è lontano e non si mostra. In Cristo questo Dio si mostra, il Dio lontano diventa vicino. “Tutto ciò” è quindi, soprattutto col mistero di Cristo, Dio che si è fatto vicino a noi. Ciò implica un’altra dimensione: Cristo non è mai solo; Egli è venuto in mezzo a noi, è morto solo, ma è risorto per attirare tutti sé. Cristo, come dice la Scrittura, si crea un corpo, riunisce tutta l’umanità nella sua realtà della vita immortale. E così, in Cristo che riunisce l’umanità, conosciamo il futuro dell’umanità: la vita eterna. Tutto ciò, quindi, è molto semplice, in ultima istanza: conosciamo Dio conoscendo Cristo, il suo corpo, il mistero della Chiesa e la promessa della vita eterna.

Veniamo ora alla seconda domanda. Come possiamo noi essere testimoni di “tutto ciò”? Possiamo essere testimoni solo conoscendo Cristo e, conoscendo Cristo, anche conoscendo Dio. Ma conoscere Cristo implica certamente una dimensione intellettuale - imparare quanto conosciamo da Cristo - ma è sempre molto più che un processo intellettuale: è un processo esistenziale, è un processo dell'apertura del mio io, della mia trasformazione dalla presenza e dalla forza di Cristo, e così è anche un processo di apertura a tutti gli altri che devono essere corpo di Cristo. In questo modo, è evidente che conoscere Cristo, come processo intellettuale e soprattutto esistenziale, è un processo che ci fa testimoni. In altre parole, possiamo essere testimoni solo se Cristo lo conosciamo di prima mano e non solo da altri, dalla nostra propria vita, dal nostro incontro personale con Cristo. Incontrandolo realmente nella nostra vita di fede diventiamo testimoni e possiamo così contribuire alla novità del mondo, alla vita eterna. Il Catechismo della Chiesa Cattolica ci dà un'indicazione anche per il contenuto di questo “tutto ciò”. La Chiesa ha riunito e riassunto l'essenziale di quanto il Signore ci ha donato nella Rivelazione, nel “Simbolo detto niceno-costantinopolitano, il quale trae la sua grande autorità dal fatto di essere frutto dei primi due Concili Ecumenici (325 e 381)” (CCC, n. 195). Il Catechismo precisa che questo Simbolo ”è tuttora comune a tutte le grandi Chiese dell’Oriente e dell’Occidente” (Ibid.). In questo Simbolo quindi si trovano le verità di fede che i cristiani possono professare e testimoniare insieme, affinché il mondo creda, manifestando, con il desiderio e l’impegno di superare le divergenze esistenti, la volontà di camminare verso la piena comunione, l’unità del Corpo di Cristo.

La celebrazione della Settimana di Preghiera per l’Unità dei Cristiani ci porta a considerare altri aspetti importanti per l’ecumenismo. Innanzitutto, il grande progresso realizzato nelle relazioni tra Chiese e Comunità ecclesiali dopo la Conferenza di Edimburgo di un secolo fa. Il movimento ecumenico moderno si è sviluppato in modo così significativo da diventare, nell’ultimo secolo, un elemento importante nella vita della Chiesa, ricordando il problema dell’unità tra tutti i cristiani e sostenendo anche la crescita della comunione tra loro. Esso non solo favorisce i rapporti fraterni tra le Chiese e le Comunità ecclesiali in risposta al comandamento dell’amore, ma stimola anche la ricerca teologica. Inoltre, esso coinvolge la vita concreta delle Chiese e delle Comunità ecclesiali con tematiche che toccano la pastorale e la vita sacramentale, come, ad esempio, il mutuo riconoscimento del Battesimo, le questioni relative ai matrimoni misti, i casi parziali di comunicatio in sacris in situazioni particolari ben definite. Nel solco di tale spirito ecumenico, i contatti sono andati allargandosi anche a movimenti pentecostali, evangelici e carismatici, per una maggiore conoscenza reciproca, benchè non manchino problemi gravi in questo settore.

La Chiesa cattolica, dal Concilio Vaticano II in poi, è entrata in relazioni fraterne con tutte le Chiese d’Oriente e le Comunità ecclesiali d’Occidente, organizzando, in particolare, con la maggior parte di esse, dialoghi teologici bilaterali, che hanno portato a trovare convergenze o anche consensi in vari punti, approfondendo così i vincoli di comunione. Nell’anno appena trascorso i vari dialoghi hanno registrato positivi passi. Con le Chiese Ortodosse la Commissione Mista Internazionale per il Dialogo Teologico ha iniziato, nell’XI Sessione plenaria svoltasi a Paphos di Cipro nell’ottobre 2009, lo studio di un tema cruciale nel dialogo fra cattolici e ortodossi: Il ruolo del vescovo di Roma nella comunione della Chiesa nel primo millennio, cioè nel tempo in cui i cristiani di Oriente e di Occidente vivevano nella piena comunione. Questo studio si estenderà in seguito al secondo millennio. Ho già più volte chiesto la preghiera dei cattolici per questo dialogo delicato ed essenziale per l’intero movimento ecumenico. Anche con le Antiche Chiese ortodosse d’Oriente (copta, etiopica, sira, armena) l’analoga Commissione Mista si è incontrata dal 26 al 30 gennaio dello scorso anno. Tali importanti iniziative attestano come sia in atto un dialogo profondo e ricco di speranze con tutte le Chiese d’Oriente non in piena comunione con Roma, nella loro propria specificità.

Nel corso dell’anno passato, con le Comunità ecclesiali di Occidente si sono esaminati i risultati raggiunti nei vari dialoghi in questi quarant’anni, soffermandosi, in particolare, su quelli con la Comunione Anglicana, con la Federazione Luterana Mondiale, con l’Alleanza Riformata Mondiale e con il Consiglio Mondiale Metodista. Al riguardo, il Pontificio Consiglio per la Promozione dell’Unità dei Cristiani ha realizzato uno studio per enucleare i punti di convergenza a cui si è giunti nei relativi dialoghi bilaterali, e segnalare, allo stesso tempo, i problemi aperti su cui occorrerà iniziare una nuova fase di confronto.

Tra gli eventi recenti, vorrei menzionare la commemorazione del decimo anniversario della Dichiarazione congiunta sulla dottrina della giustificazione, celebrato insieme da cattolici e luterani il 31 ottobre 2009, per stimolare il proseguimento del dialogo, come pure la visita a Roma dell’Arcivescovo di Canterbury, il Dottor Rowan Williams, il quale ha avuto anche colloqui sulla particolare situazione in cui si trova la Comunione Anglicana. Il comune impegno di continuare le relazioni e il dialogo sono un segno positivo, che manifesta quanto sia intenso il desiderio dell’unità, nonostante tutti i problemi che si oppongono. Così vediamo che c’è una dimensione della nostra responsabilità nel fare tutto ciò che è possibile per arrivare realmente all’unità, ma c’è l’altra dimensione, quella dell’azione divina, perché solo Dio può dare l’unità alla Chiesa. Una unità “autofatta” sarebbe umana, ma noi desideriamo la Chiesa di Dio, fatta da Dio, il quale quando vorrà e quando noi saremo pronti, creerà l’unità. Dobbiamo tenere presente anche quanti progressi reali si sono raggiunti nella collaborazione e nella fraternità in tutti questi anni, in questi ultimi cinquant’anni. Allo stesso tempo, dobbiamo sapere che il lavoro ecumenico non è un processo lineare. Infatti, problemi vecchi, nati nel contesto di un’altra epoca, perdono il loro peso, mentre nel contesto odierno nascono nuovi problemi e nuove difficoltà. Pertanto dobbiamo essere sempre disponibili per un processo di purificazione, nel quale il Signore ci renda capaci di essere uniti.

Cari fratelli e sorelle, per la complessa realtà ecumenica, per la promozione del dialogo, come pure affinché i cristiani nel nostro tempo possano dare una nuova testimonianza comune di fedeltà a Cristo davanti a questo nostro mondo, chiedo la preghiera di tutti. Il Signore ascolti l’invocazione nostra e di tutti i cristiani, che in questa settimana si eleva a Lui con particolare intensità

Week of Prayer for Christian Unity

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Today’s Audience takes place during the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, when the Lord’s followers are asked to reflect on the tragedy of their divisions and to pray with him “that they may all be one ... that the world may believe” (cf. Jn 17:21). The theme chosen for this year – “You are witnesses of these things” (Lk 24:48) – brings out this close bond between Christian unity and evangelization. This was a major concern of the Edinburgh Conference, which marked the beginning of the modern ecumenical movement one hundred years ago. Today’s increasingly secularized society urgently requires a united witness to Jesus Christ grounded in a common profession of faith, as well as fraternal cooperation between separated Christians, dialogue and deeper reflection on the points of continuing divergence. During this Week I ask all of you to join me in praying for these intentions, in thanking God for the ecumenical progress made in the past year, and in asking that Christians of our time, by growing in unity, may offer an ever more convincing witness to the Risen Lord.

* * *

I extend warm greetings to all the English-speaking pilgrims and visitors here today, especially to the groups from Sweden, South Korea and the United States of America. In this Week of Prayer for Christian Unity it is a particular joy to welcome the members of the Continuation Committee of Ecumenism in the Twenty-first Century. Upon all of you and your families I cordially invoke God’s abundant blessings.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 11:24:12 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
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frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #326 on: January 24, 2010, 12:01:09 AM »

All I can tell either one of you, is if and when I enter into Orthodoxy I will still think that you two are way too freaky for me to agree with. Sorry.

Well that's really more your fault than anyone else. You keep making extreme assumptions about my motivations, intentions, and thoughts and I try to correct you but you don't really listen.

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #327 on: January 24, 2010, 01:34:22 PM »
All I can tell either one of you, is if and when I enter into Orthodoxy I will still think that you two are way too freaky for me to agree with. Sorry.
:)
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #328 on: January 24, 2010, 09:30:52 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #329 on: January 24, 2010, 09:47:34 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

I think after seeing a series of very harsh polemical apologetics from Orthodox Converts I can't say I have any sympathy for you. You guys have asked for a fight... I don't think you'll see stuff coming out directly from the Vatican but I can only imagine there are Catholic Apologists out there that want to address some of these books and positions.

That said I'm largely in the Orthodox camp these days but that doesn't mean I'm going to wear the polemical team shirt and run around with Pom-Poms. I largely dislike the Orthodox tactic personally. That doesn't mean I don't think that they are correct or whatever... I just think they could be more Christian in there criticisms.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #330 on: January 24, 2010, 09:54:56 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

I think after seeing a series of very harsh polemical apologetics from Orthodox Converts I can't say I have any sympathy for you. You guys have asked for a fight... I don't think you'll see stuff coming out directly from the Vatican but I can only imagine there are Catholic Apologists out there that want to address some of these books and positions.

That said I'm largely in the Orthodox camp these days but that doesn't mean I'm going to wear the polemical team shirt and run around with Pom-Poms. I largely dislike the Orthodox tactic personally. That doesn't mean I don't think that they are correct or whatever... I just think they could be more Christian in there criticisms.

I think the persistent misunderstanding you demonstrate on this forum, is that you confuse doctrinal disagreement with personal enmity.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 09:55:15 PM by Iconodule »
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #331 on: January 24, 2010, 09:56:23 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.
Likoudis seems the only one they got, which is really sad.  I've never seen him on EWTN (but then I haven't been watching regularly for a year or so), and I've never heard EWTN's radio (I listen to Relevant Radio).
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #332 on: January 24, 2010, 10:04:30 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

I think after seeing a series of very harsh polemical apologetics from Orthodox Converts I can't say I have any sympathy for you. You guys have asked for a fight... I don't think you'll see stuff coming out directly from the Vatican but I can only imagine there are Catholic Apologists out there that want to address some of these books and positions.

That said I'm largely in the Orthodox camp these days but that doesn't mean I'm going to wear the polemical team shirt and run around with Pom-Poms. I largely dislike the Orthodox tactic personally. That doesn't mean I don't think that they are correct or whatever... I just think they could be more Christian in there criticisms.

I think the persistent misunderstanding you demonstrate on this forum, is that you confuse doctrinal disagreement with personal enmity.

No. I've been hear for years and I've read just about all the modern English Orthodox Apologetics and they are pretty full of vitriol. Michael Whelton... Carlton... both mix personal anger in their criticisms of the Catholic Church. Perhaps with Carlton that appears to have softened, at least on his podcasts but there books are awfully polemical and angry and use traditionalist arguments to tap into Catholic discontent with Catholicism in an attempt to create doubt.

Can you imagine if the Western Church would have done something like that during the Iconclasm? Personally that is the way I see it. Knowing what I know about Orthodox Theology and the strength of their Tradition, Orthodox Apologetists don't need to stoop to that level to 'win converts' or even make their point. That is what I mean.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #333 on: January 24, 2010, 10:47:09 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

I think after seeing a series of very harsh polemical apologetics from Orthodox Converts I can't say I have any sympathy for you. You guys have asked for a fight... I don't think you'll see stuff coming out directly from the Vatican but I can only imagine there are Catholic Apologists out there that want to address some of these books and positions.

That said I'm largely in the Orthodox camp these days but that doesn't mean I'm going to wear the polemical team shirt and run around with Pom-Poms. I largely dislike the Orthodox tactic personally. That doesn't mean I don't think that they are correct or whatever... I just think they could be more Christian in there criticisms.

I think the persistent misunderstanding you demonstrate on this forum, is that you confuse doctrinal disagreement with personal enmity.

No. I've been hear for years and I've read just about all the modern English Orthodox Apologetics and they are pretty full of vitriol. Michael Whelton... Carlton... both mix personal anger in their criticisms of the Catholic Church. Perhaps with Carlton that appears to have softened, at least on his podcasts but there books are awfully polemical and angry and use traditionalist arguments to tap into Catholic discontent with Catholicism in an attempt to create doubt.

Can you imagine if the Western Church would have done something like that during the Iconclasm? Personally that is the way I see it. Knowing what I know about Orthodox Theology and the strength of their Tradition, Orthodox Apologetists don't need to stoop to that level to 'win converts' or even make their point. That is what I mean.

Yet you keep making ridiculous accusations as to my emotions and intentions involved in this without any real rationale behind it.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 10:47:24 PM by deusveritasest »

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #334 on: January 25, 2010, 12:04:51 AM »
Yet you keep making ridiculous accusations as to my emotions and intentions involved in this without any real rationale behind it.

I'm not really following your reply from what I wrote?
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #335 on: January 25, 2010, 12:37:10 AM »
I was thinking about this this morning, as I was professing our Faith in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church: Christ has only one Bride, not a harem.

There are those who conclude therefore, that any who claim Christ must be part of that Bride.  But, given the disarray of confessions, that is one schiezophrenic wife.

Then there is the idea that only one of them is the true spouse to the Bridegroom, the rest can only be her handmaidens.

There are those who confess "I believe in one baptism for remission of sins," and conclude that any baptism is valid.

And then there are those who point out that it makes a great deal of difference which Church you seek baptism from.

The answer to which interprets the Creed correctly doesn't rest on which one we think is nicer, more pleasant, or "fairer."  It rests how how the Fathers implemented it.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #336 on: January 25, 2010, 12:43:23 AM »
Yet you keep making ridiculous accusations as to my emotions and intentions involved in this without any real rationale behind it.

I'm not really following your reply from what I wrote?

Iconodule accused you of confuting condemnation of a doctrinal tradition with enmity towards the persons who adhere to said tradition on this forum. You brought up off-board examples of where you perceive certain EO theologians of actually confuting the two. But that seemed to avoid the point about you doing it on this forum. So I again brought up what I perceived as unjust projections of anger and condemnation on my person.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #337 on: January 25, 2010, 12:52:12 AM »
All I can tell either one of you, is if and when I enter into Orthodoxy I will still think that you two are way too freaky for me to agree with. Sorry.
I agree with you. It's best to ignore instigators.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #338 on: January 25, 2010, 01:29:54 PM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #339 on: January 25, 2010, 01:48:49 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

Thanks for the information, now I know whom should I read.
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in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
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Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #340 on: January 25, 2010, 01:56:02 PM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D

I would still contend that extremism isn't zeal, and zeal isn't simply passions aroused for display. I doubt Get_Behind_Me_Satan would speak to anyone face to face as he has spoken toward people on this forum.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #341 on: January 25, 2010, 01:56:38 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.
Wasn't he Eastern Orthodox at one time?
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #342 on: January 25, 2010, 01:58:23 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.
Wasn't he Eastern Orthodox at one time?

Greek Orthodox back in the day.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline stashko

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #343 on: January 25, 2010, 02:29:11 PM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D

I would still contend that extremism isn't zeal, and zeal isn't simply passions aroused for display. I doubt Get_Behind_Me_Satan would speak to anyone face to face as he has spoken toward people on this forum.

God Bless ! Doesn't Holy Scripture tell us to be on fire for the faith ,and not to be luke warn in our walk, better to be cold instead .... 8)
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #344 on: January 25, 2010, 03:33:30 PM »
God Bless ! Doesn't Holy Scripture tell us to be on fire for the faith ,and not to be luke warn in our walk, better to be cold instead .... 8)

2Ti 4:2  Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.

You may be 'half' right but the patience part is lacking. Zeal is your desire to please the Lord in obedience not in one's anger toward others.

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely, is not puffed up,
(1Co 13:1-4)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 03:38:24 PM by ignatius »
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Mickey

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #345 on: January 25, 2010, 03:42:46 PM »
You may be 'half' right but the patience part is lacking. Zeal is your desire to please the Lord in obedience not in one's anger toward others.

The only problem lies in the fact that it is impossible to get a true reading of a person's intentions over an internet forum.  :-\

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #346 on: January 25, 2010, 04:09:55 PM »
You may be 'half' right but the patience part is lacking. Zeal is your desire to please the Lord in obedience not in one's anger toward others.

The only problem lies in the fact that it is impossible to get a true reading of a person's intentions over an internet forum.  :-\

That is true Mickey... so true. Without body language and inflection... our posts can come off as really alienating.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #347 on: January 25, 2010, 04:27:39 PM »
Yet you keep making ridiculous accusations as to my emotions and intentions involved in this without any real rationale behind it.

I'm not really following your reply from what I wrote?

Iconodule accused you of confuting condemnation of a doctrinal tradition with enmity towards the persons who adhere to said tradition on this forum. You brought up off-board examples of where you perceive certain EO theologians of actually confuting the two. But that seemed to avoid the point about you doing it on this forum. So I again brought up what I perceived as unjust projections of anger and condemnation on my person.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #348 on: January 25, 2010, 04:57:18 PM »
Iconodule accused you of confuting condemnation of a doctrinal tradition with enmity towards the persons who adhere to said tradition on this forum. You brought up off-board examples of where you perceive certain EO theologians of actually confuting the two. But that seemed to avoid the point about you doing it on this forum. So I again brought up what I perceived as unjust projections of anger and condemnation on my person.

If you feel that I am attacking 'you', I'm very sorry. I know that you and I have been sparring back and forth a lot but I don't want you to feel that I dislike 'you' personally. My criticism is largely aimed at what I perceive to be a smugness among Orthodox toward individuals who are very seriously walking their faith. Maybe I'm just too much of an individualist but I really chaff at the idea that just because someone is "Orthodox" that they are some kind of authority or more in God's Favor than someone, like my wife for example, who is a Baptist but is one of gentlest God Fearing individuals I know. She doesn't know a lick about the Doctrine of the Trinity nor any of the kind of stuff we read on this forum but she is a real 'gem' if I say so myself. My Orthodox Parish Priest just loves her and he isn't saying she lacks grace or is a heretic or any of the things that fly out of the mouths of some you. With regards to me, my Grandfather was Catholic and took me to Mass as well as my Mother. My affection toward the Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI doesn't stem from some slavish desire to serve the dark lord but because they have acts in many ways with virtue in their office of Servant of the Servants of God. Some of the historic fact you guys and gals bring up are things over 1000 years ago. By and large, for the Catholic on the ground that means nothing to us because we 'judge' the Popes as they have acted during 'our' lifetimes.

My problem with Catholicism isn't the modern Papacy... it's the Priests.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #349 on: January 25, 2010, 05:23:46 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

Thanks for the information, now I know whom should I read.
LOL.  Enjoy reading the preacher's hymnal in the choir.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #350 on: January 25, 2010, 05:25:32 PM »
I was listening to EWTN, the Catholic radio station on my way to vigil last night. They had on James Likoudis  who seems to be their main anti-Orthodox apologist. Apparently he has just written another book about us.

His talk was full of offensive half truths and spin. If this is how the Catholics want to present us, then they shouldn't be too surprised when we are cool towards their overtures.

Thanks for the information, now I know whom should I read.
LOL.  Enjoy reading the preacher's hymnal in the choir.
Oh, like you guys never read anti-Catholic stuff.    ::)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 05:25:43 PM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #351 on: January 26, 2010, 12:44:23 AM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D
Eccentrics always get your vote.
There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #352 on: January 26, 2010, 01:05:50 AM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D

I would still contend that extremism isn't zeal, and zeal isn't simply passions aroused for display. I doubt Get_Behind_Me_Satan would speak to anyone face to face as he has spoken toward people on this forum.
That's why I just say I am a baptized Catholic and not reveal which church I really attend. I don't want that to influence how others treat me. Catholicism has been my life but If I am not mistaken, I search deeper spirituality just like you do.

These two Jesters (I think a third one has joined the bandwagon) will not inluence my final decision. They are small stumbling blocks.
There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga

Offline stashko

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #353 on: January 26, 2010, 01:30:50 AM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D

I would still contend that extremism isn't zeal, and zeal isn't simply passions aroused for display. I doubt Get_Behind_Me_Satan would speak to anyone face to face as he has spoken toward people on this forum.
That's why I just say I am a baptized Catholic and not reveal which church I really attend. I don't want that to influence how others treat me. Catholicism has been my life but If I am not mistaken, I search deeper spirituality just like you do.

These two Jesters (I think a third one has joined the bandwagon) will not inluence my final decision. They are small stumbling blocks.


Are you calling us the Three Stooges ...OH ! Ok which one am i.....Larry ,Curley or Moe....Theres another one too shemp......
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #354 on: January 26, 2010, 02:29:42 AM »
Masons in orthodoxy, the church is on fire!
http://mymartyrdom.com/orthomason.htm
Quoting our own Hopeful Faithful?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Get_Behind_Me_Satan

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #355 on: January 26, 2010, 02:37:45 AM »
Pagan Rome + Christian persecution + Roman Catholicism  +  Papal inquisitions (more Christian murders) + Ecumenism = NEW WORLD ORDER AND THE KINGDOM OF THE ANTI-CHRIST  

You have a brain, use it.




Psa. 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
Psa. 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Psa. 9:5 Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever.
Psa. 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
Psa. 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psa. 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
Psa. 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
Psa. 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
Psa. 10:13 Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it.
Psa. 10:15 Break thou the arm of the wicked and the evil man: seek out his wickedness till thou find none.
Psa. 11:2 For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
Psa. 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psa. 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
Psa. 12:8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.
Psa. 17:9 From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about.
Psa. 17:13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
Psa. 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Psa. 26:5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.
Psa. 27:2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.
Psa. 28:3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
Psa. 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.
Psa. 32:10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.
Psa. 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.
Psa. 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.
Psa. 36:11 Let not the foot of pride come against me, and let not the hand of the wicked remove me.
Psa. 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Psa. 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psa. 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
Psa. 37:14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
Psa. 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
Psa. 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
Psa. 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psa. 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
Psa. 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psa. 37:32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
Psa. 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
Psa. 37:35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
Psa. 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psa. 37:40 And the LORD shall help them and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.
Psa. 39:1 I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me.
Psa. 50:16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
Psa. 55:3 Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.
Psa. 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psa. 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
Psa. 59:5 Thou therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.
Psa. 64:2 Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity:
Psa. 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
Psa. 71:4 Deliver me, O my God, out of the hand of the wicked, out of the hand of the unrighteous and cruel man.
Psa. 73:3 For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
Psa. 74:19 O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.
Psa. 75:4 I said unto the fools, Deal not foolishly: and to the wicked, Lift not up the horn:
Psa. 75:8 For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.
Psa. 75:10 All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; but the horns of the righteous shall be exalted.
Psa. 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa. 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa. 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa. 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
Psa. 92:11 Mine eye also shall see my desire on mine enemies, and mine ears shall hear my desire of the wicked that rise up against me.
Psa. 94:3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph?
Psa. 94:13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.
Psa. 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa. 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
Psa. 101:4 A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.
Psa. 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.
Psa. 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
Psa. 106:18 And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked.
Psa. 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psa. 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa. 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Psa. 119:53 Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.
Psa. 119:61 The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have not forgotten thy law.
Psa. 119:95 The wicked have waited for me to destroy me: but I will consider thy testimonies.
Psa. 119:110 The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts.
Psa. 119:119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.
Psa. 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
Psa. 125:3 For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity.
Psa. 129:4 The LORD is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked.
Psa. 139:19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
Psa. 139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
Psa. 140:4 Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.
Psa. 140:8 Grant not, O LORD, the desires of the wicked: further not his wicked device; lest they exalt themselves. Selah.
Psa. 141:4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.
Psa. 141:10 Let the wicked fall into their own nets, whilst that I withal escape.
Psa. 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Psa. 146:9 The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.
Psa. 147:6 The LORD lifteth up the meek: he casteth the wicked down to the ground.
Prov. 2:14 Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;
Prov. 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
Prov. 3:25 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.
Prov. 3:33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.
Prov. 4:14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.
Prov. 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
Prov. 5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.
Prov. 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
Prov. 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Prov. 9:7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.
Prov. 10:3 The LORD will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish: but he casteth away the substance of the wicked.
Prov. 10:6 Blessings are upon the head of the just: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
Prov. 10:7 The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.
Prov. 10:11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
Prov. 10:16 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.
Prov. 10:20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.
Prov. 10:24 The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted.
Prov. 10:25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.
Prov. 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.
Prov. 10:28 The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.
Prov. 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
Prov. 10:32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness.
Prov. 11:5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.
Prov. 11:7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.
Prov. 11:8 The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
Prov. 11:10 When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth: and when the wicked perish, there is shouting.
Prov. 11:11 By the blessing of the upright the city is exalted: but it is overthrown by the mouth of the wicked.
Prov. 11:18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.
Prov. 11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.
Prov. 11:23 The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath.
Prov. 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.
Prov. 12:2 A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn.
Prov. 12:5 The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit.
Prov. 12:6 The words of the wicked are to lie in wait for blood: but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.
Prov. 12:7 The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand.
Prov. 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
Prov. 12:12 The wicked desireth the net of evil men: but the root of the righteous yieldeth fruit.
Prov. 12:13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble.
Prov. 12:21 There shall no evil happen to the just: but the wicked shall be filled with mischief.
Prov. 12:26 The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour: but the way of the wicked seduceth them.
Prov. 13:5 A righteous man hateth lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and cometh to shame.
Prov. 13:9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Prov. 13:17 A wicked messenger falleth into mischief: but a faithful ambassador is health.
Prov. 13:25 The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want.
Prov. 14:11 The house of the wicked shall be overthrown: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish.
Prov. 14:17 He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated.
Prov. 14:19 The evil bow before the good; and the wicked at the gates of the righteous.
Prov. 14:32 The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death.
Prov. 15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.
Prov. 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
Prov. 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
Prov. 15:26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.
Prov. 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
Prov. 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
Prov. 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Prov. 17:4 A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.
Prov. 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Prov. 17:23 A wicked man taketh a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.
Prov. 18:3 When the wicked cometh, then cometh also contempt, and with ignominy reproach.
Prov. 18:5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.
Prov. 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the wicked devoureth iniquity.
Prov. 20:26 A wise king scattereth the wicked, and bringeth the wheel over them.
Prov. 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
Prov. 21:7 The robbery of the wicked shall destroy them; because they refuse to do judgment.
Prov. 21:10 The soul of the wicked desireth evil: his neighbour findeth no favour in his eyes.
Prov. 21:12 The righteous man wisely considereth the house of the wicked: but God overthroweth the wicked for their wickedness.
Prov. 21:18 The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.
Prov. 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?
Prov. 21:29 A wicked man hardeneth his face: but as for the upright, he directeth his way.
Prov. 24:15 Lay not wait, O wicked man, against the dwelling of the righteous; spoil not his resting place:
Prov. 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Prov. 24:19 Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;
Prov. 24:20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.
Prov. 24:24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
Prov. 25:5 Take away the wicked from before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness.
Prov. 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.
Prov. 26:23 Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross.
Prov. 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.
Prov. 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.
Prov. 28:12 When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden.
Prov. 28:15 As a roaring lion, and a ranging bear; so is a wicked ruler over the poor people.
Prov. 28:28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase.
Prov. 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
Prov. 29:7 The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.
Prov. 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
Prov. 29:16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.
Prov. 29:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.
Eccl. 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
Eccl. 7:15 All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
Eccl. 7:17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?
Eccl. 8:10 And so I saw the wicked buried, who had come and gone from the place of the holy, and they were forgotten in the city where they had so done: this is also vanity.
Eccl. 8:13 But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.
Eccl. 8:14 There is a vanity which is done upon the earth; that there be just men, unto whom it happeneth according to the work of the wicked; again, there be wicked men, to whom it happeneth according to the work of the righteous: I said that this also is vanity.
Eccl. 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
Is. 3:11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
Is. 5:23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Is. 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Is. 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Is. 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
Is. 26:10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.
Is. 32:7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
Is. 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
Is. 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Is. 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Is. 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
Is. 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
Jer. 2:33 Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways.
Jer. 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
Jer. 5:28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
Jer. 6:29 The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
Jer. 12:1 Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
Jer. 15:21 And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.
Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer. 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
Jer. 25:31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
Jer. 30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
Ezek. 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Ezek. 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezek. 7:21 And I will give it into the hands of the strangers for a prey, and to the wicked of the earth for a spoil; and they shall pollute it.
Ezek. 8:9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
Ezek. 11:2 Then said he unto me, Son of man, these are the men that devise mischief, and give wicked counsel in this city:
Ezek. 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezek. 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezek. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezek. 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezek. 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Ezek. 20:44 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name’s sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezek. 21:3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
Ezek. 21:4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
Ezek. 21:25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
Ezek. 21:29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.
Ezek. 30:12 And I will make the rivers dry, and sell the land into the hand of the wicked: and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein, by the hand of strangers: I the LORD have spoken it.
Ezek. 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Ezek. 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezek. 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Ezek. 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezek. 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Ezek. 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezek. 33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Dan. 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Mic. 6:10 Are there yet the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked, and the scant measure that is abominable?
Mic. 6:11 Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights?
Nah. 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Nah. 1:11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counseller.
Nah. 1:15 Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.
Hab. 1:4 Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
Hab. 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
Hab. 3:13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
Zeph. 1:3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.

“The testimonies of the western teachers I neither recognize or accept. I surmise that they are corrupted.
There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.”

St Mark Of Ephesus, Doctor of the church. (True Church)

Down with ecumenism!

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #356 on: January 26, 2010, 02:41:43 AM »
Pagan Rome + Christian persecution + Roman Catholicism  +  Papal inquisitions (more Christian murders) + Ecumenism = NEW WORLD ORDER AND THE KINGDOM OF THE ANTI-CHRIST  

You have a brain, use it.
You think using our brains will automatically lead us to agree with you?  I've used my brain many times, and my reasoning has led me to be very wary of any argument that reads like a Jack Chick tract.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 02:41:54 AM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #357 on: January 26, 2010, 02:58:19 AM »
Pagan Rome + Christian persecution + Roman Catholicism  +  Papal inquisitions (more Christian murders) + Ecumenism = NEW WORLD ORDER AND THE KINGDOM OF THE ANTI-CHRIST  Nothing New Under the Sun
There. I have fixed it. :)
We must not operate either out of fear nor panic, as I see most people with "apocalyptic" ideas do. Why should the Christians in the days of the Antichrist do anything different to the Christians of the first, second, third.......21st centuries? Our duty is is to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and body and to love our neighbour as ourself. Nothing in this duty of ours changes even if we are standing in the throne-room of the Antichrist himself. Our duty as Christians is still the same no matter what, so why the panic? And if we are weak and experience panic in difficult situations, we should at least try not to communicate our panic to others.

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #358 on: January 26, 2010, 02:59:16 AM »
I see Nothing wrong with these two individuals, Deusveritasest or  Get_Behind_Me_Satan ,
their only preaching in what they believe and know....
I agree with them in many things.....
Someone has to take a stand and defend the truth and Orthodox way.....

They Have My Vote... ;D

I would still contend that extremism isn't zeal, and zeal isn't simply passions aroused for display. I doubt Get_Behind_Me_Satan would speak to anyone face to face as he has spoken toward people on this forum.
That's why I just say I am a baptized Catholic and not reveal which church I really attend. I don't want that to influence how others treat me. Catholicism has been my life but If I am not mistaken, I search deeper spirituality just like you do.

These two Jesters (I think a third one has joined the bandwagon) will not inluence my final decision. They are small stumbling blocks.


Are you calling us the Three Stooges ...OH ! Ok which one am i.....Larry ,Curley or Moe....Theres another one too shemp......
Me, myself and I :)
There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga

Offline Mickey

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #359 on: January 26, 2010, 09:51:44 AM »
like my wife for example, who is a Baptist but is one of gentlest God Fearing individuals I know.

I have baptist in-laws who are like that.  :)