Author Topic: Ecumenism (opinion on news)  (Read 103789 times)

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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2010, 12:06:39 AM »
"The Christian world today has many bishops, a few theologians and even less ecclesiological knowledge"

So... basically... it's the same now as it's always been. Thanks for the news. :)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #136 on: January 20, 2010, 12:31:44 AM »
I was a young child when I converted and I didn’t care either way when I was that age but when I got older, I did some studying and saw clearly that Orthodoxy is the way. You also make an accusation that those who leave Rome left since they were attracted to ritual but that is a ridicules accusation. The Papacy, Papal infallibility, the filioque, Imaculate Conception, Purgatory, Mary being the Co-redemtrix and mediator of all graces, and the like are hardly small matters. They are not ritual reasons for leaving but are heresy. Should I ignore these heresies and submit to the Pope anyway?

Luther is your baby. We had nothing to do with him. And I say that as a former Lutheran.

Good, good, good, finally we can see it, the masks had fallen,

What mask? My former church has never been a secret.


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it was necessary to induce people to show them selves as they really are with strong words and now we can see the truth.

By one side Andrew21091 shows how bad a catholic he was, bad enough to point his own parents as responsible of his lack of faith, he blames his parents not remembering that God calls to us to honor them. 

Exodus 20:12
12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Were he a catholic, a real catholic, he would before look inside the Church of his parents, to honor them, but he denied to do that and went speedy feet to other confession, now he has been brain washed and has been tough to hate catholicism.

Many issues of doctrine you have quoted, and all of them have been clarified, and some of them are not official teachings as co-redemtrix, ¿Can you show us the articles teaching it in Catechism?

You arrogance drove you to condemn your parents rather than honor them, no humbleness, no submission, no selfdenying.

I the other hand we have “ialmisry”, the one we can see in its full image, the real one, he was a hater of Catholicism as Lutheran, and now he is a hater of Catholicism as new comer Orthodox.  As Lutheran he rejected Images, the Theotokos, the Saints, the Eucharist as the real presence of our lord in body and blood, the confession of sins to a priest, the baptism of child, etc.

you got me on the first three (except images of Christ), but I always believed in the Real Presence (and took communion in the Latin church, btw) went to confession once and was baptized as a child.

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Better later than never he saw the mistake of Protestantism, but yet he enjoyed and keep subject to protestant interpretation of apocalypse,

never was too concerned about the Book.

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he enjoy and keep subject to the idea of a mystical body of Jesus, not subjected to an order. He remains subject to anarchy as if every member of the only body acted as if there were no head, or in the better of cases, many heads, many autocephalies.


Actually, I was active in getting our parish into promoting the union of all the Lutherans in North America.

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We pray to God , for driving him to the truth more ahead, allowing him to realize that the body of Christ doesn’t have many heads in conflict ( as Constantinople with Moscow),

How about Cardinals Martini and Ratzinger?


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but one Head, the Lord Jesus Himself, who has chosen one to take care of the church, St Peter, consoling it, purifying it and driving it to him with the Holy Spirit who acts in us until he comes back.

St. Peter's Catholic successor at present is our Patriarch Ignatius IV.

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Whomever states that Catholics have been baptized in the name of Peter, is far from truth, he knows it, and his heart fully tells us about its corruption.


Well, you act it.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #137 on: January 20, 2010, 01:03:09 AM »

Quote
but one Head, the Lord Jesus Himself, who has chosen one to take care of the church, St Peter, consoling it, purifying it and driving it to him with the Holy Spirit who acts in us until he comes back.

St. Peter's Catholic successor at present is our Patriarch Ignatius IV.


Yes I guess I know whom do you speak of, though I got confused ¿Who is the succesor?




Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #138 on: January 20, 2010, 01:07:51 AM »
Listen, I rather would like to speak about his excelency Zizoulas.

"The Ravenna text" - continues Zizoulas - "is very important, but unfortunately it has not received due attention and disclosure. It was agreed that the primacy at any level it is exercised, should be understood in its synodal character. This is what the Orthodox Church maintains and applies and it has its roots in the 34th Apostolic Canon ... The Orthodox Church also has its primus, but they can not decide without the synod, nor the synod without them. This focal point was accepted at the Ravenna meeting, although it does not agree with [the concept of] the primate, as monarch. The second point of the Ravenna document is that the primate is linked to the concept of the pentarchy of the patriarchates [1]. This was true during the first millennium, and this should apply even if the remaining assumptions of the first millennium will retain their validity.

______________________________________________________________________

¿What do you think? ¿is there any doctrinal issue with this?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 01:09:07 AM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #139 on: January 20, 2010, 02:41:49 AM »
Listen, I rather would like to speak about his excelency Zizoulas.

"The Ravenna text" - continues Zizoulas - "is very important, but unfortunately it has not received due attention and disclosure. It was agreed that the primacy at any level it is exercised, should be understood in its synodal character. This is what the Orthodox Church maintains and applies and it has its roots in the 34th Apostolic Canon ... The Orthodox Church also has its primus, but they can not decide without the synod, nor the synod without them. This focal point was accepted at the Ravenna meeting, although it does not agree with [the concept of] the primate, as monarch. The second point of the Ravenna document is that the primate is linked to the concept of the pentarchy of the patriarchates [1]. This was true during the first millennium, and this should apply even if the remaining assumptions of the first millennium will retain their validity.

______________________________________________________________________

¿What do you think? ¿is there any doctrinal issue with this?

As far as I know no Orthodox Church has ratified this ecumenical document.   Five have decisively rejected it - Jerusalem, Russia, Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria.

The Vatican also declined to ratify it because it contains ideas on ecclesiology which are alien to Roman Catholic teaching.

You may find the whole document on the vatican.va site with a discreeet caution in the introduction that it is only the work of theologians and not the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #140 on: January 20, 2010, 02:50:12 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #141 on: January 20, 2010, 03:47:54 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

These words of Metropolitan Anthony (Bloom) of London provide a perspective on the bipolar approach of the Church of Rome to the bilateral dialogue.  It's not a pleasant opinion from the Metropolitan but he is deadly honest about how he assesses matters.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,25368.msg397335.html#msg397335

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #142 on: January 20, 2010, 05:07:00 AM »
Listen, I rather would like to speak about his excelency Zizoulas.

"The Ravenna text" - continues Zizoulas - "is very important, but unfortunately it has not received due attention and disclosure. It was agreed that the primacy at any level it is exercised, should be understood in its synodal character. This is what the Orthodox Church maintains and applies and it has its roots in the 34th Apostolic Canon ... The Orthodox Church also has its primus, but they can not decide without the synod, nor the synod without them. This focal point was accepted at the Ravenna meeting, although it does not agree with [the concept of] the primate, as monarch. The second point of the Ravenna document is that the primate is linked to the concept of the pentarchy of the patriarchates [1]. This was true during the first millennium, and this should apply even if the remaining assumptions of the first millennium will retain their validity.

______________________________________________________________________

¿What do you think? ¿is there any doctrinal issue with this?

Dear Alfonso,

Prior to the commencement of the Cyprus Meeting, the bishops of the various Orthodox bishops moved into a more pro-active and hands-on mode with regard to the Catholic-Orthodox Dialogue.

You can read about this, with statements from the Church of Greece and various bishops in this thread

"Disagreement on the October meeting of the Catholic-Orthodox Dialogue "
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23726.html


The star of Metropolitan Zizioulas is probably waning now, especially after his threats to bishops who do not agree with his approach to the ecumenical dialogue.



Today (19 January) is the commemoration of St. Fillan of Strathfilan
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints


Offline Iconodule

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2010, 08:02:06 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

Because he sees the talks as inevitably leading to our submission to Rome. Which kind of confirms the suspicions of the anti-ecumenists.
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #144 on: January 20, 2010, 10:11:40 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

I speak to those catholics whose faith has weakened, I have said that I do respect born orthodox, but those who converted are my concern due to the fact that they were baptized as catholic, and they will be always catholic, though they are not asisting to church. If they have been rebaptized, they have comited sin, because St Paul clearly states "... One Baptism...", and no matter they believe they have been rebaptized, their baptism is Catholic, and they will be requested to answer about their acts.

not until we reach full communion we can say that it doesn't matter to asist to orthodox or catholic church, and that is why I keep tracking ecumenical movement, for i want that the desire of our Lord to be done.

Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
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Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2010, 10:30:41 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

I speak to those catholics whose faith has weakened, I have said that I do respect born orthodox, but those who converted are my concern due to the fact that they were baptized as catholic, and they will be always catholic, though they are not asisting to church. If they have been rebaptized, they have comited sin, because St Paul clearly states "... One Baptism...", and no matter they believe they have been rebaptized, their baptism is Catholic, and they will be requested to answer about their acts.

not until we reach full communion we can say that it doesn't matter to asist to orthodox or catholic church, and that is why I keep tracking ecumenical movement, for i want that the desire of our Lord to be done.

My loyalty and obedience has been with the Western Church since my early days with my Grandfather attending Mass in Latin but far has the Church fallen and I have a family that should be raise with the support of those whom I believe will best aid me to teach them the Fear of God and to pursue a life of Virtue which is the Catholic Faith.

If the Priests are not loyal nor obedient to Holy Tradition which is the Canon of Christ, who then are we loyal to by bowing to their whim? I'm just asking?
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #146 on: January 20, 2010, 10:42:19 AM »
This paragrph speaks of something that most catholics don´t know.

"The Orthodox Church found itself subject to the Turkish system of corruption. The patriarchal throne was frequently sold to the highest bidder, while new patriarchal investiture was accompanied by heavy payment to the government. In order to recoup their losses, patriarchs and bishops taxed the local parishes and their clergy. Nor was the patriarchal throne ever secure. Few patriarchs between the fifteenth and the nineteenth centuries died a natural death while in office. The forced abdications, exiles, hangings, drownings, and poisonings of patriarchs are well documented. But if the patriarch's position was precarious so was the hierarchy's. The hanging of patriarch Gregory V from the gate of the patriarchate on Easter Sunday 1821 was accompanied by the execution of two metropolitans and twelve bishops."

Now, to me this sounds like many of the acusations that some orthodox do to catholicism.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #147 on: January 20, 2010, 11:02:56 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?
He's never "Romanist"; but he is always Catholic.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #148 on: January 20, 2010, 11:04:38 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

I speak to those catholics whose faith has weakened, I have said that I do respect born orthodox, but those who converted are my concern due to the fact that they were baptized as catholic, and they will be always catholic, though they are not asisting to church. If they have been rebaptized, they have comited sin, because St Paul clearly states "... One Baptism...", and no matter they believe they have been rebaptized, their baptism is Catholic, and they will be requested to answer about their acts.

not until we reach full communion we can say that it doesn't matter to asist to orthodox or catholic church, and that is why I keep tracking ecumenical movement, for i want that the desire of our Lord to be done.

My loyalty and obedience has been with the Western Church since my early days with my Grandfather attending Mass in Latin but far has the Church fallen and I have a family that should be raise with the support of those whom I believe will best aid me to teach them the Fear of God and to pursue a life of Virtue which is the Catholic Faith.

If the Priests are not loyal nor obedient to Holy Tradition which is the Canon of Christ, who then are we loyal to by bowing to their whim? I'm just asking?
Its so funny that you feel this way because this most certainly not my experience of the Priests i know. The priets I know are solidly orthodox (little 'o') and pratice the faith in a beautiful way.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #149 on: January 20, 2010, 11:08:49 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

I speak to those catholics whose faith has weakened, I have said that I do respect born orthodox, but those who converted are my concern due to the fact that they were baptized as catholic, and they will be always catholic, though they are not asisting to church. If they have been rebaptized, they have comited sin, because St Paul clearly states "... One Baptism...", and no matter they believe they have been rebaptized, their baptism is Catholic, and they will be requested to answer about their acts.

not until we reach full communion we can say that it doesn't matter to asist to orthodox or catholic church, and that is why I keep tracking ecumenical movement, for i want that the desire of our Lord to be done.

My loyalty and obedience has been with the Western Church since my early days with my Grandfather attending Mass in Latin but far has the Church fallen and I have a family that should be raise with the support of those whom I believe will best aid me to teach them the Fear of God and to pursue a life of Virtue which is the Catholic Faith.

If the Priests are not loyal nor obedient to Holy Tradition which is the Canon of Christ, who then are we loyal to by bowing to their whim? I'm just asking?

Tell me, have you ever gone to do spiritual exercises, those of St Ignatius of Loyola?, if your answer is negative,  there you have your answer, your faith is a faith founded on ritualistic, if your answer is yes, then what have you done to fight for Jeruslem, The establishment of the kingdom of our Lord in earth as it is in heaven?

Faith is not only about going to mass, and feeling nice, and also faith is not only about feeling peace inside, we can see it in the Sacred Scripture,  St Paul was in constant conflict, doing what he didn’t want to do. He never retired to a monastery, and never spoke of that as a way of salvation, neither did St Peter. None of them felt rest until they give their souls to our Lord. For it is only in the Lord that we may find rest. But in life, we have to persevere in faith; such is Our Lord’s command. 

Monastery is a way to live completely advocated to our Lord, but there are other ways to sanctify the life of each one. Have you ever met Opus Dei, St José María Escrivá de Valaguer? Though I don’t belong to Opus Dei, I recognize that father José María has thought to live in sanctity in each one occupation, in each one routine,  you don´t have to be a priest, neither you have to be a monk, you can sanctify your life through your personal life. Doing everything  to glorify our Lord.

I finally want to remember you the word of the Greates Lady  Saint Afte the most holy Virgin Mary, I am speaking of Teresa de Ávila:

I live without living in myself,
and in such a way do I hope,
that I die because I do not die.
 
I live now outside of myself
for I die of love;
because I live in the Lord
who claimed me for himself;
when I gave him my heart
I put in it this sign:
I die because I do not die.
 
This divine prison of love
with which I live
has made God my captive,
and my heart free;
and to see God as my prisoner
causes in me such a passion
that I die because I do not die.
 
Oh, how long is this life!
How hard these exiles,
this jail, these iron bars
in which the soul is put!
Just awaiting my departure
causes in me such a pain,
that I die because I do not die.
 
Oh, how bitter this life
where one does not enjoy the Lord!
For if love is sweet,
long waiting is not.
God, take this burden from me,
more heavy than steel,
for I die because I do not die.
 
I live only with the confidence
that I have to die,
because upon dying, my hope
assures me of life.
Death, where living extends itself,
do not delay, for I await you,
for I die because I do not die.
 
See that love is strong,
life, be not bothersome to me;
see that the only thing that is left for you
to gain yourself is to loose yourself.
Let sweet death come now,
death come swiftly,
for I die because I do not die.
 
That life above
is the true life;
until this life dies,
one doesn’t savor being alive.
Death, don’t evade me;
live dying first,
for I die because I do not die.
 
Life, what can I give
my God, who lives in me,
if not the loosing of you,
to enjoy him more?
I want to attain him dying,
for so much do I love my Lover,
that I die because I do not die.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #150 on: January 20, 2010, 11:13:15 AM »
Papist...seriously?  You are going to try and tell me the Catholic Church teaches the same thing it did 50 years ago?
Yup. So I suggest you stop lying about my Church.

 OK..well then I suppose all those bad Catholics eating meat on Friday (except Lent) are going to burn in a fiery Hell, unless they go underneath a Church steeple a couple times so God can magically take hard time away from Purgatory..or does Purgatory not exist anymore, like Limbo doesn't?  
You know you are being silly.
1. Eating Meat on Fridays. It has never been an issue of divine law that Catholics were forbidden to eat meat on Friday. Thus it was obviously could be changed because it was not a matter of revelation/divine law.
However, the only actual Church teaching that is related to this matter is Church authority. Does the Catholic Church have the authority to bind its faithful to certain penances and fasts? Of course she does and the Church has not changed its teaching that she has such authority. So you fail on this point.
2. Magical steeple? Please, my ninth grade students could come up with better arguements. That being said, yes the Church provides induglences and this is seen as nothing more than the exercise of the authority given by Christ when he told the Apostles "Whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven." Thus a person can recieve an indulgence from the Church based on this authority. However, an indulgence doesn't keep a person out of hell. It only aides a soul in purgatory. Indulgences require repentance and penance.
3. Yes Purgatory exists.
4. Limbo. Now you are showing how incredibly uninformed you are about Catholic Dogma. The concept of Limbo has NEVER been a dogma of the Church. It is an acceptable theological opinion, and Catholics are still free to believe in the idea if they like, but they are not required to just as it has always been in Church history. No Change here.
What about Extra Nullum Sullus? (sp?)  I understand there is a new interpretation to that document.  Pretty hard to "re-interpret" an obvious statement of "I am Supreme, and you must be under the Pope of Rome unless thoust will suffer an eternity in Hell"...something along those lines anyway.   ::)
We have always believed in some form of the concept of salvation still being possible for those who are in a state of invincible ignorance. Is the concept applied more liberally today by many Catholic theologians? Definitely, and that may not be the best thing but the Magesterium has not changed Catholic teaching on the matter.
Instead of taking up the entire page of the list of changes in Catholicism since 1964, I'll simply not waste my time, as any ex-Catholic knows, what I said is the obvious truth.
First, I doubt you ever were Catholic or you would actual understand these concepts. But if you were a Catholic you must have had a pretty poor understanding of your faith if you can actually put such nonsensical arguements in print. Second, because not one of your arguements holds water, you have failed to defend your position.
BTW, my 'slander' is pretty awesome.    8)
I suppose if you think the sin of slander is awesome. Some how I doubt your communion approves of lying though.

1.Canon 1249 “All Christ’s faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.”

Canon 1250 “All Fridays throughout the year and the time of Lent are penitential days and times throughout the universal Church.”

Canon 1251 “Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Canon 1252 “The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year.”

2. Actually, I doubt a 9th grader would be aware of the silly superstition that was rampant in Catholicism prior to the 1960s, and a little bit before then.  

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

Dispositions necessary to gain an indulgence

The mere fact that the Church proclaims an indulgence does not imply that it can be gained without effort on the part of the faithful. From what has been said above, it is clear that the recipient must be free from the guilt of mortal sin. Furthermore, for plenary indulgences, confession and Communion are usually required, while for partial indulgences, though confession is not obligatory, the formula corde saltem contrito, i.e. "at least with a contrite heart", is the customary prescription. Regarding the question discussed by theologians whether a person in mortal sin can gain an indulgence for the dead, see PURGATORY. It is also necessary to have the intention, at least habitual, of gaining the indulgence. Finally, from the nature of the case, it is obvious that one must perform the good works — prayers, alms deeds, visits to a church , etc. — which are prescribed in the granting of an indulgence. For details see "Raccolta".


3. OK.

4. http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__theological.htm

Where will unbaptized children (and aborted babies) go on the day of the Last Judgment?

It is not a doctrine of Faith that children dying with original sin only on their soul go to a special place or state called the children’s Limbo. However, it is the common opinion of the theologians. This is based upon the teaching of Pope Innocent III (and the Fathers of the Church) on the effects of baptism, in which he has this to say:

    The punishment of original sin is deprivation of the vision of God, but the punishment of actual sin is the torments of everlasting hell. (Maiores Ecclesiae causas, Dz 780).

The state of Limbo is consequently a suffering from the pain of loss, or separation from God, but not of the pain of the senses. As St. Thomas Aquinas teaches (De malo 5, 3), such a pain of loss is compatible with a certain natural happiness. At the last judgment, when the bodies will rise to share in the punishment or reward of heaven or hell, the bodies of those who are in Limbo will also rise. Although separated from God, in which way they share the punishment of the damned in hell, they will not be tormented by remorse nor will they suffer the pain of the sense which the damned suffer forever in hell.

The denial of this common teaching by the heretical council of Pistoia was condemned by Pope Pius VI as "false, rash, injurious to Catholic schools." Here is his description of the erroneous doctrine:

    The doctrine which rejects as a Pelagian fable that place of the lower regions (which the faithful generally designate by the name of the limbo of children) in which the souls of those departing with the sole guilt of original sin, are punished with the punishment of the condemned, exclusive of the punishment of fire... (Auctorem Fidei, Dz 1526).  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]


First, I doubt you ever were Catholic or you would actual understand these concepts. But if you were a Catholic you must have had a pretty poor understanding of your faith if you can actually put such nonsensical arguements in print. Second, because not one of your arguements holds water, you have failed to defend your position.

Actually, I was a seminarian at the Pontifical College Josephinum and much to Msgr. Paul Langsfeld's dismay, left following my freshmen year as I continued to fall in love with Orthodox Christianity.  In reality, I was on my to the Gregorian University.  What major seminary did you attend?  

Yup. So I suggest you stop lying about my Church.

THANK YOU!!  Wasn't I just talking about it being YOUR Church?  

I suppose if you think the sin of slander is awesome. Some how I doubt your communion approves of lying though.

Thanks for doing your job and proving my point (again, you can't seem to help yourself) that you are the one in judgment over me.

Matthew. 7:5
If you can't understand the difference between Divine and Positive Law then I guess I can't help you. This only demonstrates your lack of understanding and knowledge. Sorry buddy.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #151 on: January 20, 2010, 11:14:55 AM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

I speak to those catholics whose faith has weakened, I have said that I do respect born orthodox, but those who converted are my concern due to the fact that they were baptized as catholic, and they will be always catholic, though they are not asisting to church. If they have been rebaptized, they have comited sin, because St Paul clearly states "... One Baptism...", and no matter they believe they have been rebaptized, their baptism is Catholic, and they will be requested to answer about their acts.

not until we reach full communion we can say that it doesn't matter to asist to orthodox or catholic church, and that is why I keep tracking ecumenical movement, for i want that the desire of our Lord to be done.

My loyalty and obedience has been with the Western Church since my early days with my Grandfather attending Mass in Latin but far has the Church fallen and I have a family that should be raise with the support of those whom I believe will best aid me to teach them the Fear of God and to pursue a life of Virtue which is the Catholic Faith.

If the Priests are not loyal nor obedient to Holy Tradition which is the Canon of Christ, who then are we loyal to by bowing to their whim? I'm just asking?

Tell me, have you ever gone to do spiritual exercises, those of St Ignatius of Loyola?, if your answer is negative,  there you have your answer, your faith is a faith founded on ritualistic, if your answer is yes, then what have you done to fight for Jeruslem, The establishment of the kingdom of our Lord in earth as it is in heaven?

Faith is not only about going to mass, and feeling nice, and also faith is not only about feeling peace inside, we can see it in the Sacred Scripture,  St Paul was in constant conflict, doing what he didn’t want to do. He never retired to a monastery, and never spoke of that as a way of salvation, neither did St Peter. None of them felt rest until they give their souls to our Lord. For it is only in the Lord that we may find rest. But in life, we have to persevere in faith; such is Our Lord’s command. 

Monastery is a way to live completely advocated to our Lord, but there are other ways to sanctify the life of each one. Have you ever met Opus Dei, St José María Escrivá de Valaguer? Though I don’t belong to Opus Dei, I recognize that father José María has thought to live in sanctity in each one occupation, in each one routine,  you don´t have to be a priest, neither you have to be a monk, you can sanctify your life through your personal life. Doing everything  to glorify our Lord.

I finally want to remember you the word of the Greates Lady  Saint Afte the most holy Virgin Mary, I am speaking of Teresa de Ávila:

I live without living in myself,
and in such a way do I hope,
that I die because I do not die.
 
I live now outside of myself
for I die of love;
because I live in the Lord
who claimed me for himself;
when I gave him my heart
I put in it this sign:
I die because I do not die.
 
This divine prison of love
with which I live
has made God my captive,
and my heart free;
and to see God as my prisoner
causes in me such a passion
that I die because I do not die.
 
Oh, how long is this life!
How hard these exiles,
this jail, these iron bars
in which the soul is put!
Just awaiting my departure
causes in me such a pain,
that I die because I do not die.
 
Oh, how bitter this life
where one does not enjoy the Lord!
For if love is sweet,
long waiting is not.
God, take this burden from me,
more heavy than steel,
for I die because I do not die.
 
I live only with the confidence
that I have to die,
because upon dying, my hope
assures me of life.
Death, where living extends itself,
do not delay, for I await you,
for I die because I do not die.
 
See that love is strong,
life, be not bothersome to me;
see that the only thing that is left for you
to gain yourself is to loose yourself.
Let sweet death come now,
death come swiftly,
for I die because I do not die.
 
That life above
is the true life;
until this life dies,
one doesn’t savor being alive.
Death, don’t evade me;
live dying first,
for I die because I do not die.
 
Life, what can I give
my God, who lives in me,
if not the loosing of you,
to enjoy him more?
I want to attain him dying,
for so much do I love my Lover,
that I die because I do not die.

I find the Love that Sts. Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross have for Jesus to be beautiful.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #152 on: January 20, 2010, 11:21:05 AM »
If you can't understand the difference between Divine and Positive Law then I guess I can't help you. This only demonstrates your lack of understanding and knowledge. Sorry buddy.

Positive law
is a legal term that is sometimes understood to have more than one meaning. In the strictest sense, it is law made by human beings, that is, "Law actually and specifically enacted or adopted by proper authority for the government of an organized jural society." This term is also sometimes used to refer to the legal philosophy, legal positivism, as distinct from the schools of natural law and legal realism.

Various philosophers have put forward theories contrasting the value of positive law relative to natural law. The normative theory of law put forth by the Brno school gave pre-eminence to positive law because of its rational nature. Classical liberal and libertarian philosophers usually favor natural law over legal positivism.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #153 on: January 20, 2010, 11:23:48 AM »
If you can't understand the difference between Divine and Positive Law then I guess I can't help you. This only demonstrates your lack of understanding and knowledge. Sorry buddy.

Positive law
is a legal term that is sometimes understood to have more than one meaning. In the strictest sense, it is law made by human beings, that is, "Law actually and specifically enacted or adopted by proper authority for the government of an organized jural society." This term is also sometimes used to refer to the legal philosophy, legal positivism, as distinct from the schools of natural law and legal realism.

Various philosophers have put forward theories contrasting the value of positive law relative to natural law. The normative theory of law put forth by the Brno school gave pre-eminence to positive law because of its rational nature. Classical liberal and libertarian philosophers usually favor natural law over legal positivism.
And there is such a thing as positive Church Law. Certain fasts, prayers in the Liturgy, feast days on the Liturgical Calander. etc. are not matters of divine revelation but are put in place by the Church to aide in our spiritual growth.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Hamartolos

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #154 on: January 20, 2010, 11:26:20 AM »
You've been proven wrong.  You contradict yourself continually, and you do not demonstrate any real knowledge, just arrogance with a side of ignorance.  

Can't say I've ever heard a priest or theologian speak of Positive Law.  I have heard lawyers and judges speak of it, when I interned at the United States District Court for the District of Columbia.  Anyway, who cares?  Some psychological defect in you goes rampant whenever you go about on internet forums insulting a religion different than yours.  

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #155 on: January 20, 2010, 11:30:13 AM »
You've been proven wrong.  You contradict yourself continually, and you do not demonstrate any real knowledge, just arrogance with a side of ignorance.  

Can't say I've ever heard a priest or theologian speak of Positive Law.  I have heard lawyers and judges speak of it, when I interned at the United States District Court for the District of Columbia.  Anyway, who cares?  Some psychological defect in you goes rampant whenever you go about on internet forums insulting a religion different than yours.  
Quite frankly I think you are immature and uneducated. I will not discuss this with you further until you decide to grow up. BTW, I would like you to point out one post in this thread in which I have insulted the Eastern Orthodox Church. If you cannot do so, then  you have moved from slandering my Church to slandering me.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 11:30:39 AM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Hamartolos

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #156 on: January 20, 2010, 11:37:42 AM »
You have no reason to come to those conclusions and, like a little child, are trying to get me fired up.  Frankly, from the look at all of your posts, perhaps you do not instruct 9th graders, you simply just are one. 

Have a nice day Papist.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #157 on: January 20, 2010, 12:50:03 PM »
ah, so much for 'Ecumenism'...  ;)

I think somewhere we have become uncharitable.  :police:

Church discipline developed... the Liturgy developed... our Creeds developed. I understand the idea of the Deposit of Faith but we also must recognize that our practices have developed through the life of the Church. I think that is Papists point with Positive Law. I believe that he is saying that just because we have development doesn't make it illegitimate or a novelty.

Many Orthodox think that the Divine Liturgy of 1460AD in Constantinople was how the Apostles worshiped and dressed. Many think that Jesus literally dressed in Roman Imperial grab because that is how he is depicted in Iconography. Some even see Jesus as more of a Socrates than as the Jewish Rabbi that he was.

I know Orthodox Priests and I dialogue with them weekly and I don't know 'any' who deny the kinds of things some Orthodox virulently deny here on this forum to win an argument or to demean Catholic views on a subject. To a certain extent I understand Papists criticisms.

History is challenging and we can't simply claim authority because we attended a seminary or have a degree... it must be proven through rational discourse and evidence.

Let us be patient and peaceable with one another and reason together. Let us ask questions of one another and not simply couch everything as we wish it to be to support our own claims. I think that is fair.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #158 on: January 20, 2010, 01:28:13 PM »
This paragrph speaks of something that most catholics don´t know.

"The Orthodox Church found itself subject to the Turkish system of corruption. The patriarchal throne was frequently sold to the highest bidder, while new patriarchal investiture was accompanied by heavy payment to the government. In order to recoup their losses, patriarchs and bishops taxed the local parishes and their clergy. Nor was the patriarchal throne ever secure. Few patriarchs between the fifteenth and the nineteenth centuries died a natural death while in office. The forced abdications, exiles, hangings, drownings, and poisonings of patriarchs are well documented. But if the patriarch's position was precarious so was the hierarchy's. The hanging of patriarch Gregory V from the gate of the patriarchate on Easter Sunday 1821 was accompanied by the execution of two metropolitans and twelve bishops."

Now, to me this sounds like many of the acusations that some orthodox do to catholicism.
Bad as the Turcocratia was, it was imposed from without, and no matter its corrupting influence, never came from within, and never got to these depths:
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #159 on: January 20, 2010, 01:30:44 PM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?

Because he sees the talks as inevitably leading to our submission to Rome. Which kind of confirms the suspicions of the anti-ecumenists.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #160 on: January 20, 2010, 01:34:45 PM »

Quote
but one Head, the Lord Jesus Himself, who has chosen one to take care of the church, St Peter, consoling it, purifying it and driving it to him with the Holy Spirit who acts in us until he comes back.

St. Peter's Catholic successor at present is our Patriarch Ignatius IV.


Yes I guess I know whom do you speak of, though I got confused ¿Who is the succesor?


The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic One:


« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 01:35:22 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #161 on: January 20, 2010, 01:43:27 PM »
This paragrph speaks of something that most catholics don´t know.

"The Orthodox Church found itself subject to the Turkish system of corruption. The patriarchal throne was frequently sold to the highest bidder, while new patriarchal investiture was accompanied by heavy payment to the government. In order to recoup their losses, patriarchs and bishops taxed the local parishes and their clergy. Nor was the patriarchal throne ever secure. Few patriarchs between the fifteenth and the nineteenth centuries died a natural death while in office. The forced abdications, exiles, hangings, drownings, and poisonings of patriarchs are well documented. But if the patriarch's position was precarious so was the hierarchy's. The hanging of patriarch Gregory V from the gate of the patriarchate on Easter Sunday 1821 was accompanied by the execution of two metropolitans and twelve bishops."

Now, to me this sounds like many of the acusations that some orthodox do to catholicism.
Bad as the Turcocratia was, it was imposed from without, and no matter its corrupting influence, never came from within, and never got to these depths:

You gave me the reason.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #162 on: January 20, 2010, 01:44:50 PM »

Quote
but one Head, the Lord Jesus Himself, who has chosen one to take care of the church, St Peter, consoling it, purifying it and driving it to him with the Holy Spirit who acts in us until he comes back.

St. Peter's Catholic successor at present is our Patriarch Ignatius IV.


Yes I guess I know whom do you speak of, though I got confused ¿Who is the succesor?


The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic One:



Yes, he is sited at left of the Pope, ¿Wouldn´t he deserve to sit in the center? my lutheran friend
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 01:46:53 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Hamartolos

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #163 on: January 20, 2010, 01:51:57 PM »
I could be wrong, but it looks like this event is being held in a Catholic Church.  If so, the Pope sitting in the middle would be the correct decorum. 

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #164 on: January 20, 2010, 05:00:05 PM »

but those who converted are my concern due to the fact that they were baptized as catholic,

Huh? I converted to EOy on Holy Saturday of '08 and had never been a Romanist.


If they have been rebaptized, they have comited sin, because St Paul clearly states "... One Baptism...",

It's not that common for converts from Romanism to be baptized. They are usually chrismated.

But even if they were, as some are, it is not necessarily rebaptism, because they regard the baptism in your ecclesia as being Sacramentally illegitimate.

But none of this really answers my question. Why does it seem you keep changing your attitude towards the EO

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #165 on: January 20, 2010, 05:01:32 PM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?
He's never "Romanist"; but he is always Catholic.

Romanism is a legitimate categorization of your religion regardless of whether Catholicism also is or not.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 05:01:57 PM by deusveritasest »

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #166 on: January 20, 2010, 05:06:33 PM »
It's actually this one:


Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #167 on: January 20, 2010, 06:16:27 PM »
It's actually this one:


Though he is sited at right of the Pope in the mirror position to Eastern Orthodox.

Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #168 on: January 20, 2010, 06:27:30 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?

Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #169 on: January 20, 2010, 07:08:20 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?


One of your Churches, ther Chaldean Catholic Church, claims they are somewhere in Baghdad.   This seems to be a minority opinion.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #170 on: January 20, 2010, 07:09:07 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?


One of your Churches, ther Chaldean Catholic Church, claims they are somewhere in Baghdad.   This seems to be a minority opinion.
Sad how wrong they are.  ;D
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #171 on: January 20, 2010, 07:09:43 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?


I am not worried. I know the successor of St. Peter is in Rome.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #172 on: January 20, 2010, 07:15:00 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?


I am not worried. I know the successor of St. Peter is in Rome.

I fully agree
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #173 on: January 20, 2010, 07:19:06 PM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?
He's never "Romanist"; but he is always Catholic.

Romanism is a legitimate categorization of your religion regardless of whether Catholicism also is or not.
No really, since I don't worship Rome.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #174 on: January 20, 2010, 07:29:02 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?

I am not worried. I know the successor of St. Peter is in Rome.

Well, the Pope says himself that the successors of Saint Peter are found in three cities: Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch.


Pope Gregory the Great  teaches that the three Patriarchates which existed in his time -Rome, Alexandria and Antioch-  founded by Peter, were equal in power and authority.   This Triptarchy existed prior to the now familiar Pentarchy, and is connected with a belief in a Petrine foundation for each of these three major Sees.

Note well:

1. The parts where the Pope speaks of Alexandria and Antioch sharing the keys with Rome

2. The parts where the Pope speaks of the equality of Rome and Alexandria and Antioch

3. The parts where the Pope says that all three of these Sees form one See of Peter over which the three bishops preside.


For more context and the papal teaching:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24191.msg380287.html#msg380287
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 07:29:40 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Papist

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #175 on: January 20, 2010, 07:30:35 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?

I am not worried. I know the successor of St. Peter is in Rome.

Well, the Pope says himself that the successors of Saint Peter are found in three cities: Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch.


Pope Gregory the Great  teaches that the three Patriarchates which existed in his time -Rome, Alexandria and Antioch-  founded by Peter, were equal in power and authority.   This Triptarchy existed prior to the now familiar Pentarchy, and is connected with a belief in a Petrine foundation for each of these three major Sees.

Note well:

1. The parts where the Pope speaks of Alexandria and Antioch sharing the keys with Rome

2. The parts where the Pope speaks of the equality of Rome and Alexandria and Antioch

3. The parts where the Pope says that all three of these Sees form one See of Peter over which the three bishops preside.


For more context and the papal teaching:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24191.msg380287.html#msg380287
Father, do you really think that I don't know about this? That's why its such a big deal that Constantinople pushed its way to second place.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #176 on: January 20, 2010, 07:42:11 PM »
An Orthodox article on the danger of the Orthodox contemplating union with Rome in light of Rome's perilous state with its liturgy..

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Orthodox/2000/10/Lets-Keep-Our-Distance.aspx

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #177 on: January 20, 2010, 07:43:26 PM »
Now, Where are St Peter's bones?

I am not worried. I know the successor of St. Peter is in Rome.

Well, the Pope says himself that the successors of Saint Peter are found in three cities: Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch.


Pope Gregory the Great  teaches that the three Patriarchates which existed in his time -Rome, Alexandria and Antioch-  founded by Peter, were equal in power and authority.   This Triptarchy existed prior to the now familiar Pentarchy, and is connected with a belief in a Petrine foundation for each of these three major Sees.

Note well:

1. The parts where the Pope speaks of Alexandria and Antioch sharing the keys with Rome

2. The parts where the Pope speaks of the equality of Rome and Alexandria and Antioch

3. The parts where the Pope says that all three of these Sees form one See of Peter over which the three bishops preside.


For more context and the papal teaching:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24191.msg380287.html#msg380287
Father, do you really think that I don't know about this? 

Yes, I know that you know.  The reference was for Alfonso who seems unaware of the papal teaching.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #178 on: January 20, 2010, 08:11:04 PM »
It's actually this one:


Though he is sited at right of the Pope in the mirror position to Eastern Orthodox.



I was well aware that he was also in the original picture. What is your point?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Ecumenism (opinion on news)
« Reply #179 on: January 20, 2010, 08:15:26 PM »
Alonso, why do you keep waffling from being ecumenical to being Romanist supremacist to being ecumenical again?
He's never "Romanist"; but he is always Catholic.

Romanism is a legitimate categorization of your religion regardless of whether Catholicism also is or not.
No really, since I don't worship Rome.

Never said you did. Isms are not inherently indicated of what someone worships. "Romanism" refers to certain systematic relations to the Church of Rome, such as holding to its dogmatic tradition, submitting to its supposed supreme authority, etc.