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Author Topic: Gaining weight during the fasts...  (Read 3757 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 24, 2009, 03:58:59 AM »

A bit counter-intuitive... but anyone else have this problem?

Lots of carbs, I guess.
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 04:03:11 AM »

When I was in college that happened to me.  Now that I can cook for myself all the time, I try to mix up my diet a bit and I lose a little weight each time it's a fast.
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 07:31:11 AM »

Most of the time it doesn't happen to me, but there was definitely one Great Lent when I gained a good amount of weight.
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 08:05:59 AM »

Have to stay away from those Mcdonald's french fries... Wink
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 10:31:42 AM »

A bit counter-intuitive... but anyone else have this problem?

Lots of carbs, I guess.
That's the problem. Many people who are accustomed to meat and carb diets cut out the meat and try to supplement with more carbs. If you supplement with vegetables instead, you'll lose about ten pounds during each of the long fasts. We eat quasi-vegetarian most of the time anyway, so I don't really notice a big change in my weight.
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 03:34:21 PM »

There are other things which may affect your weight beyond what foods you may or may not eat.  I remember, a few years back during Great Lent, despite my excessive fasting from meats and from dairy, I still gained weight.  Why?  Because I was seriously depressed and all that stress just kept the pounds on and added.  So, if there are other things in your life that are affecting you negatively, if you could remove those as well, then I think your fasting may have the added gift of making you a little trimmer.
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 05:49:22 PM »

I would think maintaining discipline after the fast would be difficult.  That is, not eating everything in sight all at once. I guess this is why it is said that feasting is as much of a discipline as fasting.
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 07:04:13 PM »

A bit counter-intuitive... but anyone else have this problem?

Lots of carbs, I guess.

We have a thread called Diet and Nutrition.. Perhaps you can join us there.

IMHO, a diet of bread, pasta and oatmeal will pack on the pounds.  High carbs may be the culprit.

When you cant eat meat, eat lots of vegetables and fruit. You can add all important fat with Coconut, especially Coconut Oil which you can mix with hot water and make a tea. That will satiate you and cut your carb cravings. There are still fish days too. Eat that  and the allowable shell fish like crab and shrimp until you are sick of em.  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 05:18:16 AM »

Eat that and the allowable shell fish like crab and shrimp until you are sick of em.

I simply cannot understand why shellfish are seen as permissible when they are called an abomination in Leviticus.  Yes, yes, I know, we're not under the law unless it is convenient for justifying certain practices.

It's just that most traditionalist Orthodox Christians seem to cite Leviticus in condemning homosexuality, which is called an abomination.  But so is shellfish.  It just seems like a very strong word for something that's not a big deal.  I know, I know, St. Peter's vision in the Acts of the Apostles.  Still though.  Abomination.
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 08:37:46 AM »

Apostolic authority supersedes OT decrees. Apostle Paul spoke out against homosexuality, Apostle Peter's vision speaks for itself.
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2010, 09:32:28 AM »

I simply cannot understand why shellfish are seen as permissible when they are called an abomination in Leviticus.  Yes, yes, I know, we're not under the law unless it is convenient for justifying certain practices.

It's just that most traditionalist Orthodox Christians seem to cite Leviticus in condemning homosexuality, which is called an abomination.  But so is shellfish.  It just seems like a very strong word for something that's not a big deal.  I know, I know, St. Peter's vision in the Acts of the Apostles.  Still though.  Abomination.

It actually has to do with blood. The Apostles forbade the eating of anything with blood still in it (Acts 15:20, Acts 15:29, Acts 21:25), so naturally, fasting from meat meant fasting from anything which had blood, that is, a closed circulatory system with a heart. Shellfish do not have a closed circulatory system nor hearts. Shellfish and insects have "open circulatory systems"- that is, they either use the movement of an external fluid or muscle contractions to move the fluid through their bodies without veins or arteries. Since shellfish were not considered to contain blood, their flesh was not considered to be meat.
This is also why we can eat honey during a fast, since it is not considered to be an "animal product" (since bees don't have blood).
Now, why we abstain from olive oil is beyond me, but I'm sure there is a logical reason!
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2010, 09:47:08 AM »

It's the carbs - although I did lose weight during lent 2 years ago because I was stressed. When stressed I do not eat much.  I eat more Oriental and Indian food during lent. The olive oil thing is beyond me considering that Orthodoxy's formative years was in a Mediterranean culture. Oil is a symbol of gladness, i guess. Those of us from Slavic traditions did not use olive oil. Hello - canola!
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2010, 09:59:24 AM »

If you eat a balanced diet with vegetables, fruit, and lentils, you won't gain weight. If you're gaining weight, you're doing something wrong.

You might want to pick up some Vegan cookbooks to help you out.
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2010, 10:46:46 AM »

In addition to the additional carbs people usually eat, if you're usually eating a 2000 calorie/day diet and then suddenly drop to a 1000 calorie/day diet (or even less), your body goes into "starvation mode" and rapidly starts to hoard any and all calories you intake, turning it into fat so it can be stored and used at its leisure.  I've found it beneficial to me to actually start lowering my caloric intake a couple weeks before any fast, much like how we go through Meatfare and then Cheesefare week before Great Lent.  Your body needs time to adjust, especially in this day and age of cheap calories.  We really are spoiled (generally speaking) when it comes to having the ability to at least be able to intake 1500 calories a day on very little money.  Of course, that caloric intake may be a nutritional nightmare, but in terms of raw calories, we are blessed indeed.
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 10:53:25 AM »

Now, why we abstain from olive oil is beyond me, but I'm sure there is a logical reason!

I've heard it suggested by certain priests that oil and wine were considered non-fasting because they were traditionally kept in animal skins. Then again, I have heard many other priests dismiss this as total nonsense.
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2010, 12:02:47 PM »

In addition to the additional carbs people usually eat, if you're usually eating a 2000 calorie/day diet and then suddenly drop to a 1000 calorie/day diet (or even less), your body goes into "starvation mode" and rapidly starts to hoard any and all calories you intake, turning it into fat so it can be stored and used at its leisure.  I've found it beneficial to me to actually start lowering my caloric intake a couple weeks before any fast, much like how we go through Meatfare and then Cheesefare week before Great Lent.  Your body needs time to adjust, especially in this day and age of cheap calories.  We really are spoiled (generally speaking) when it comes to having the ability to at least be able to intake 1500 calories a day on very little money.  Of course, that caloric intake may be a nutritional nightmare, but in terms of raw calories, we are blessed indeed.

This is what happened to a friend of mine during Great Lent last year. He cut quickly to the Lenten Fast and he suffered a rise in blood pressure and a bit of an imbalance in his nutrition levels. His Doctor told him to ease up. His Spiritual Father also instructed him to ease up on Fasting. So he is observing a modified Fast discipline.
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2010, 12:10:39 PM »

Now, why we abstain from olive oil is beyond me, but I'm sure there is a logical reason!

I've heard it suggested by certain priests that oil and wine were considered non-fasting because they were traditionally kept in animal skins. Then again, I have heard many other priests dismiss this as total nonsense.

We had a thread about this before.

I still stand by the idea that we fast from olive oil because it represents abundance and richness.  Food, especially cooked food, is pretty bland w/o olive oil.  If the spirit of the fast is to eat simply and using minimal processing in our choice of food, anything more complicated than sourdough bread is probably stretching the spirit, so to speak.

That being said, I find abstaining from oil the worst part and usually fail in my attempts.  Lord, have mercy!
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 12:40:18 PM »

Do Orthdox avoid all meat for all of Lent?
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2010, 12:42:35 PM »

Yes, with the exception of an occasional fish dish on feasts like the Annunication.  We also to avoid all dairy, as well.
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 01:26:28 PM »

Yes, with the exception of an occasional fish dish on feasts like the Annunication.  We also to avoid all dairy, as well.
OMG. I have such a fast metabolism. If I were Orthodox I would weigh 125 by the end of the fast. lol
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 01:32:57 PM »

Do Orthdox avoid all meat for all of Lent?

There are five levels of fasting within the Orthodox Church.

Level One: Eat whatever you like!

Level Two: Abstain from all forms of meat, and meat by-products. This is practiced one week before Great Lent. Dairy, Fish (with a backbone), Shellfish, Oil, and Wine are permitted.

Level Three: Abstain from all forms of meat, dairy, and meat/dairy by-products. This includes all milk, cheese, and eggs. This is practiced on the Feast of the Annunciation of the Theotokos on March 25th and other Feasts that occur during Fasting periods on the Church calander. Fish (with a backbone), Shellfish, oil, and wine are permitted.

Level Four: Abstain from all forms of dairy, meat, dairy/meat by-products, and fish with backbones. This is practiced on the Saturday's during Lent. Shellfish, Oil, and Wine are permitted.

Level Five: Strict Fast! Abstain from all forms of dairy, meat, dairy/meat by-products, fish with backbones, oil, and wine. This is practiced Sun-Fri during Lent. Shellfish are permitted.
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 02:23:10 PM »

In addition to the additional carbs people usually eat, if you're usually eating a 2000 calorie/day diet and then suddenly drop to a 1000 calorie/day diet (or even less), your body goes into "starvation mode" and rapidly starts to hoard any and all calories you intake, turning it into fat so it can be stored and used at its leisure.  I've found it beneficial to me to actually start lowering my caloric intake a couple weeks before any fast, much like how we go through Meatfare and then Cheesefare week before Great Lent.  Your body needs time to adjust, especially in this day and age of cheap calories.  We really are spoiled (generally speaking) when it comes to having the ability to at least be able to intake 1500 calories a day on very little money.  Of course, that caloric intake may be a nutritional nightmare, but in terms of raw calories, we are blessed indeed.

I think that is absolutely correct. One way to fool your body is to drink hot water and coconut oil as a tea. Do this about a half hour before each meal and your body will get a good infusion of fat ( medium chain, so don't worry about taking it). Then just don't go more than four hours without eating a little something. Your body will not switch into famine mode.
o
If you cant choke back plain coconut oil and hot water, then buy coconut milk at the store and drink that. Add sweetner if you need to. Just watch the calories.
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 11:43:14 AM »

"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 01:54:55 PM »

"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.

Actually, the old saw of Calories in > Calories Out = weight gain, has been debunked pretty thoroughly.

It's not only the calories that you eat, but the nutritional value of what you eat and what you can digest well and utilize. But I agree, carbs and insulin response are very key.

There is fine book recently published called: "A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting ON With My Life" by Richard Morris

Mr. Morris was very overwight for much of his life until he stopped listening to the conventional wisdom and began eating a highly nutritious Traditional Diet. Here is a link to a review:

http://www.westonaprice.org/A-Life-Unburdened-by-Richard-Morris.html
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2010, 06:31:55 PM »

Trust me- I know all about Weston Price. I eat paleo, but the laws of thermodynamics have not been debunked, and my point, in this context, is that people who "gain weight" during Lent are doing so essentially because of caloric amount being in excess of what they are burning. Simply "fasting" by removing certain foods doesn't mean there will be weight loss.

People on mod protein/high fat diets lose weight, but they are also usually in a caloric deficit even though they are heating high calorie foods (they are satisfied longer and, overall, eat less).

Assuming I'm lifting weights, I can actually be in caloric excess on a low carb diet and lose fat and improve body composition (look leaner) but my actual body mass doesn't change much. Just lose fat and gain some muscle... I just become better looking  Wink


"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.

Actually, the old saw of Calories in > Calories Out = weight gain, has been debunked pretty thoroughly.

It's not only the calories that you eat, but the nutritional value of what you eat and what you can digest well and utilize. But I agree, carbs and insulin response are very key.

There is fine book recently published called: "A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting ON With My Life" by Richard Morris

Mr. Morris was very overwight for much of his life until he stopped listening to the conventional wisdom and began eating a highly nutritious Traditional Diet. Here is a link to a review:

http://www.westonaprice.org/A-Life-Unburdened-by-Richard-Morris.html
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2010, 10:54:17 PM »

Trust me- I know all about Weston Price. I eat paleo, but the laws of thermodynamics have not been debunked, and my point, in this context, is that people who "gain weight" during Lent are doing so essentially because of caloric amount being in excess of what they are burning. Simply "fasting" by removing certain foods doesn't mean there will be weight loss.

People on mod protein/high fat diets lose weight, but they are also usually in a caloric deficit even though they are heating high calorie foods (they are satisfied longer and, overall, eat less).

Assuming I'm lifting weights, I can actually be in caloric excess on a low carb diet and lose fat and improve body composition (look leaner) but my actual body mass doesn't change much. Just lose fat and gain some muscle... I just become better looking  Wink


"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.

Actually, the old saw of Calories in > Calories Out = weight gain, has been debunked pretty thoroughly.

It's not only the calories that you eat, but the nutritional value of what you eat and what you can digest well and utilize. But I agree, carbs and insulin response are very key.

There is fine book recently published called: "A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting ON With My Life" by Richard Morris

Mr. Morris was very overwight for much of his life until he stopped listening to the conventional wisdom and began eating a highly nutritious Traditional Diet. Here is a link to a review:

http://www.westonaprice.org/A-Life-Unburdened-by-Richard-Morris.html

Ah the old Law of Thermodynamics ploy Smiley

Here is a good article about that:

 http://migraineur.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/calories-in-calories-out/

Glad to hear you're eating Paleo. Another similar book is "NeanderThin: Eat Like a Caveman to Achieve a Lean, Strong, Healthy Body" by Ray Audette, Troy Gilchrist,  and Michael R. Eades
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2010, 10:21:31 AM »

I've read all of that stuff, and then some. It is true, however, that calories in > calories out = weight gain. I enjoy the books/research and apply some of the basic principles to my eating, but those guys are selling something and tend towards hyperbole and shock value (i.e. stating that settled principles/laws of science aren't true) and take great license with the "history" of agriculture, our evolution, nutritional habits, etc.

They exploit the fact that the reader doesn't know biology, history, chemistry, botany, anthropology, etc. and hold themselves out as experts in all of these areas.  They, generally, are not. They have a few areas right, and then extrapolate it out to justify a whole book/website/system.

Without proper context, people start avoiding fruit because it has sugar, avoiding tomato because it "is a nightshade", consuming WAY too much salt because bacon and salami are low carb and high fat, think the health effects of fiber are a myth and gov't conspiracy, stop listening to their doctors completely, chugging butter/cod liver oil cocktails, etc.



Trust me- I know all about Weston Price. I eat paleo, but the laws of thermodynamics have not been debunked, and my point, in this context, is that people who "gain weight" during Lent are doing so essentially because of caloric amount being in excess of what they are burning. Simply "fasting" by removing certain foods doesn't mean there will be weight loss.

People on mod protein/high fat diets lose weight, but they are also usually in a caloric deficit even though they are heating high calorie foods (they are satisfied longer and, overall, eat less).

Assuming I'm lifting weights, I can actually be in caloric excess on a low carb diet and lose fat and improve body composition (look leaner) but my actual body mass doesn't change much. Just lose fat and gain some muscle... I just become better looking  Wink


"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.

Actually, the old saw of Calories in > Calories Out = weight gain, has been debunked pretty thoroughly.

It's not only the calories that you eat, but the nutritional value of what you eat and what you can digest well and utilize. But I agree, carbs and insulin response are very key.

There is fine book recently published called: "A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting ON With My Life" by Richard Morris

Mr. Morris was very overwight for much of his life until he stopped listening to the conventional wisdom and began eating a highly nutritious Traditional Diet. Here is a link to a review:

http://www.westonaprice.org/A-Life-Unburdened-by-Richard-Morris.html

Ah the old Law of Thermodynamics ploy Smiley

Here is a good article about that:

 http://migraineur.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/calories-in-calories-out/

Glad to hear you're eating Paleo. Another similar book is "NeanderThin: Eat Like a Caveman to Achieve a Lean, Strong, Healthy Body" by Ray Audette, Troy Gilchrist,  and Michael R. Eades
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2010, 11:54:15 AM »

I've read all of that stuff, and then some. It is true, however, that calories in > calories out = weight gain. I enjoy the books/research and apply some of the basic principles to my eating, but those guys are selling something and tend towards hyperbole and shock value (i.e. stating that settled principles/laws of science aren't true) and take great license with the "history" of agriculture, our evolution, nutritional habits, etc.

They exploit the fact that the reader doesn't know biology, history, chemistry, botany, anthropology, etc. and hold themselves out as experts in all of these areas.  They, generally, are not. They have a few areas right, and then extrapolate it out to justify a whole book/website/system.

Without proper context, people start avoiding fruit because it has sugar, avoiding tomato because it "is a nightshade", consuming WAY too much salt because bacon and salami are low carb and high fat, think the health effects of fiber are a myth and gov't conspiracy, stop listening to their doctors completely, chugging butter/cod liver oil cocktails, etc.



Trust me- I know all about Weston Price. I eat paleo, but the laws of thermodynamics have not been debunked, and my point, in this context, is that people who "gain weight" during Lent are doing so essentially because of caloric amount being in excess of what they are burning. Simply "fasting" by removing certain foods doesn't mean there will be weight loss.

People on mod protein/high fat diets lose weight, but they are also usually in a caloric deficit even though they are heating high calorie foods (they are satisfied longer and, overall, eat less).

Assuming I'm lifting weights, I can actually be in caloric excess on a low carb diet and lose fat and improve body composition (look leaner) but my actual body mass doesn't change much. Just lose fat and gain some muscle... I just become better looking  Wink


"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.

Actually, the old saw of Calories in > Calories Out = weight gain, has been debunked pretty thoroughly.

It's not only the calories that you eat, but the nutritional value of what you eat and what you can digest well and utilize. But I agree, carbs and insulin response are very key.

There is fine book recently published called: "A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting ON With My Life" by Richard Morris

Mr. Morris was very overwight for much of his life until he stopped listening to the conventional wisdom and began eating a highly nutritious Traditional Diet. Here is a link to a review:

http://www.westonaprice.org/A-Life-Unburdened-by-Richard-Morris.html

Ah the old Law of Thermodynamics ploy Smiley

Here is a good article about that:

 http://migraineur.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/calories-in-calories-out/

Glad to hear you're eating Paleo. Another similar book is "NeanderThin: Eat Like a Caveman to Achieve a Lean, Strong, Healthy Body" by Ray Audette, Troy Gilchrist,  and Michael R. Eades

Butter is good for you. Margarine isn't Smiley

I don't think people are disregarding settled  science, I think the criticism is as you just mentioned, a little knowledge can be more dangerous than none at all.

I do see tremendous problems with Industrial Farming and near monopolies by a handful of Food and Agriculture Corps. Have you seen the documentary "Food Inc."? Sometimes it isn't paranoia, you really are being manipulated.
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2010, 02:29:23 PM »

I haven't seen Food Inc. but I did just finish The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan.  A real eye opener. Highly recommended if you're into this sort of thing.



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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2010, 02:48:30 PM »

Also, I'm skeptical of butter since it is dairy. For leaning out, relieving bloating, etc. I'm becoming more and more a fan of minimizing dairy. I hate it because I love greek yoghurt, cheeze, butter, etc., but based on my experimentation with it it seems to make a huge difference.

Also, butter, along with coffee, is probably the #1 food item to make sure is organic though- since it is a concentrated byproduct of milk, whatever impurities and hormones are in the milk are multiplied in butter.
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 03:12:04 PM »

Trust me- I know all about Weston Price. I eat paleo, but the laws of thermodynamics have not been debunked, and my point, in this context, is that people who "gain weight" during Lent are doing so essentially because of caloric amount being in excess of what they are burning. Simply "fasting" by removing certain foods doesn't mean there will be weight loss.

People on mod protein/high fat diets lose weight, but they are also usually in a caloric deficit even though they are heating high calorie foods (they are satisfied longer and, overall, eat less).

Assuming I'm lifting weights, I can actually be in caloric excess on a low carb diet and lose fat and improve body composition (look leaner) but my actual body mass doesn't change much. Just lose fat and gain some muscle... I just become better looking  Wink


"Starvation Mode" is bunk (generally- it does exist, but 99% of people would never get to that point), and 1 kcals per day will not get you there.

It's all about the carbs and insulin response.

Calories in > Calories out= weight gain... esp. if calories in consists of any significant amout of carbs.

Actually, the old saw of Calories in > Calories Out = weight gain, has been debunked pretty thoroughly.

It's not only the calories that you eat, but the nutritional value of what you eat and what you can digest well and utilize. But I agree, carbs and insulin response are very key.

There is fine book recently published called: "A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting ON With My Life" by Richard Morris

Mr. Morris was very overwight for much of his life until he stopped listening to the conventional wisdom and began eating a highly nutritious Traditional Diet. Here is a link to a review:

http://www.westonaprice.org/A-Life-Unburdened-by-Richard-Morris.html
How does a person who is lifting weights maintain muslce mass during a fast?
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2010, 03:29:11 PM »

How does a person who is lifting weights maintain muscle mass during a fast?

How many Orthodox bodybuilders do you know? Wink
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« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2010, 04:11:19 PM »

Always the best excuse for me to drop 10 pounds - I NEVER gain.  I also reduce my overall intake.
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2010, 04:25:59 PM »

How does a person who is lifting weights maintain muscle mass during a fast?

How many Orthodox bodybuilders do you know? Wink
LOL. I not quite talking about the Arnold Swartzeneger types. In fact, I am not really talking about body builders. I am talking more about people like myself. I am five ten and weigh 155 lbs. only because I lift weights and eat lots of protein. However, I were to drop the large protien intake, I would quickly drop back down to 135 lbs which is far to thin for a person of my height. How would a person like myself maintain his body weight during such a fast?
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« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2010, 04:55:33 PM »

A bit counter-intuitive... but anyone else have this problem?

Lots of carbs, I guess.
Yes, I have exactly the same problem. My only hope is to eliminate all flour (no bread, no pasta, etc.) from my diet at the same time.
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« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2010, 05:02:07 PM »

How does a person who is lifting weights maintain muslce mass during a fast?
There are vegan athletes and body builders so I have to figure that it can be done.
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« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2010, 02:54:23 PM »

Also, I'm skeptical of butter since it is dairy. For leaning out, relieving bloating, etc. I'm becoming more and more a fan of minimizing dairy. I hate it because I love greek yoghurt, cheeze, butter, etc., but based on my experimentation with it it seems to make a huge difference.

Also, butter, along with coffee, is probably the #1 food item to make sure is organic though- since it is a concentrated byproduct of milk, whatever impurities and hormones are in the milk are multiplied in butter.

That's a tricky issue. Processed Dairy ( Homogenized and Pasteurized) from cows kept in confinement and fed an unnatural diet of grains and meat is very bad for you. However, cows given a diet of grass and hay and allowed to go outdoors is one of the most healthful things you can eat.

www.realmilk.com  
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 02:56:35 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
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« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2010, 02:57:45 PM »

Well that's really normal. I know it from muslims who fast at Ramadan. They complain about that all the time...But if you'd ask me how to prevent it..I've no idea I'm sorry. I suck at biology Wink
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