OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 26, 2014, 07:40:11 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Ladder of Divine Ascent... Ascetic Discipline  (Read 2574 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« on: January 12, 2010, 04:31:19 PM »

For Great Lent my Orthodox Priest is giving a series of teachings on John Climacus' Ladder of Divine Ascent for the Laity. My guess is it's modeled on Fr. John Mack's book entitled Ascent of the Heights...

What if any critique of this work do those of you who Orthodox have with this work. Is John Climacus a Saint in Orthodoxy? Any feed back is welcome.

Thanks.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 05:16:36 PM »

I just noticed that John Climacus is a Saint.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Faith: refuse
Posts: 29,283


Mzack.


« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 12:52:47 AM »

St. John is indeed a saint, and highly respected (though perhaps that's redundant... what saints aren't highly respected? But I think you know what I mean). I read The Ladder years ago, but I don't recall much from it  Undecided 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 12:54:08 AM by Asteriktos » Logged
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 01:02:04 AM »

St. John is indeed a saint, and highly respected (though perhaps that's redundant... what saints aren't highly respected? But I think you know what I mean). I read The Ladder years ago, but I don't recall much from it  Undecided 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Asteriktos,

So So sorry for your recent loss, friend. We all spend so much time on these forums and all too often we forget that those we are talking to are flesh and blood 'real' people, with 'real' lives. I'm so pleased to have known you and shared even a little bit of your life with us. Peace Brother and Hope.

I have The Ladder and Fr. Mack's Book as well. I'm planning on attending this series of lectures by the Father. I hope that they will be fruitful for me as I engage in the rigor of Great Lent.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 01:03:50 AM »

The Ladder of Divine Ascent is arguably one of the most important books in Orthodox spirituality. During Great Lent, it is read daily as part of the divine services, and it is often referred to as the Gospel of Monasticism.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA (Old Calendar)
Posts: 6,789



« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 04:03:57 AM »

Is John Climacus a Saint in Orthodoxy? Any feed back is welcome.

He is one of the most important saints in Orthodoxy.  Get this version of the book; it is perfection:

http://www.thehtm.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_105&products_id=569&osCsid=a6052f5f7386b89e408e81ab23805544

The artwork and presentation throughout are stunning.  No other edition of this classic in English even compares.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 04:04:25 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,084


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 04:49:44 AM »

Forgive my ignorance, but is St. John Climacus considered a Saint by the OO Churches? Not that it would preclude me from reading this work. I have been reading bits of the Philokalia, which I understand to be more of an EO work than an OO work. (My EOTC Priest was not familiar with it.) But anyway, just curious. The Ladder looks so very interesting.

Thanks.

Selam
Logged

"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 10:04:54 AM »

Is John Climacus a Saint in Orthodoxy? Any feed back is welcome.

He is one of the most important saints in Orthodoxy.  Get this version of the book; it is perfection:

http://www.thehtm.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_105&products_id=569&osCsid=a6052f5f7386b89e408e81ab23805544

The artwork and presentation throughout are stunning.  No other edition of this classic in English even compares.

Yes I have the 'older' green one from them and yes they have wonderful products. I love their icons.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 10:06:06 AM by ignatius » Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA (Old Calendar)
Posts: 6,789



« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 02:06:02 PM »

Yes I have the 'older' green one from them and yes they have wonderful products. I love their icons.

It seems odd that you would have asked if he is a saint in Orthodoxy if you already owned a version of this work published by an Orthodox monastery that's full on icons and such.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 02:19:25 PM »

Forgive my ignorance, but is St. John Climacus considered a Saint by the OO Churches? Not that it would preclude me from reading this work. I have been reading bits of the Philokalia, which I understand to be more of an EO work than an OO work. (My EOTC Priest was not familiar with it.) But anyway, just curious. The Ladder looks so very interesting.

He lived after the schism of 451, and was therefore a Chalcedonian. However, he is venerated as a Saint by the Armenian Church (although I'm not sure he's officially in their Synaxarion), and there are ancient translations of the Ladder into Armenian which show that it has been a work of great importance also among OO believers.
Logged
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 02:21:45 PM »

Yes I have the 'older' green one from them and yes they have wonderful products. I love their icons.

It seems odd that you would have asked if he is a saint in Orthodoxy if you already owned a version of this work published by an Orthodox monastery that's full on icons and such.

Well, I would only ask that you please note, it was only a lapse of memory and I quickly posted that I had remembered that he was a Saint. Also, I wasn't saying that I like 'an' icon of Saint John Climacus... I was pointing out that I like the icons at www.thehtm.org.

I have a very nice library of religious books and I don't have the opportunity to pour over them as I would like so my mind slips now and again.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA (Old Calendar)
Posts: 6,789



« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2010, 03:26:25 PM »

Well, I would only ask that you please note, it was only a lapse of memory and I quickly posted that I had remembered that he was a Saint. Also, I wasn't saying that I like 'an' icon of Saint John Climacus... I was pointing out that I like the icons at www.thehtm.org.

I have a very nice library of religious books and I don't have the opportunity to pour over them as I would like so my mind slips now and again.

I wasn't concerned; just confused.  Thanks for clarifying.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 03:26:48 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,084


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2010, 07:51:10 PM »

Forgive my ignorance, but is St. John Climacus considered a Saint by the OO Churches? Not that it would preclude me from reading this work. I have been reading bits of the Philokalia, which I understand to be more of an EO work than an OO work. (My EOTC Priest was not familiar with it.) But anyway, just curious. The Ladder looks so very interesting.

He lived after the schism of 451, and was therefore a Chalcedonian. However, he is venerated as a Saint by the Armenian Church (although I'm not sure he's officially in their Synaxarion), and there are ancient translations of the Ladder into Armenian which show that it has been a work of great importance also among OO believers.

Thanks. I will try to get this book for my Lent reading.

Selam
Logged

"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2010, 08:22:20 PM »

I would recommend that, if any new Orthodox choose to read The Ladder, that they do so under their spiritual father's supervision. My spiritual father said he will not allow me to read it for at least a few more years, because it's very difficult and has been known to drive people to despair, or into an unhealthy semi-monastic state (remember that it was written for monastics, not lay people).

Especially for those who are new to Orthodoxy and have not developed their spiritual muscles (or are still dealing with convertitis), the book can be too much to handle.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 08:29:01 PM by bogdan » Logged
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 6,861


"My god is greater."


« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2010, 08:23:24 PM »

I was reading through a copy of this while staying at St. Tikhon's monastery last week, and I couldn't put it down, so I got a copy before I left. I also think St. Nicodemos Handbook of Spiritual Counsel is a good companion.
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Quote from: Byron
Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,084


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2010, 08:46:10 PM »

I would recommend that, if any new Orthodox choose to read The Ladder, that they do so under their spiritual father's supervision. My spiritual father said he will not allow me to read it for at least a few more years, because it's very difficult and has been known to drive people to despair, or into an unhealthy semi-monastic state (remember that it was written for monastics, not lay people).

Especially for those who are new to Orthodoxy and have not developed their spiritual muscles (or are still dealing with convertitis), the book can be too much to handle.

OK. Thanks. Sounds like I need to hold off on it then.

Selam
Logged

"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2010, 08:51:41 PM »

OK. Thanks. Sounds like I need to hold off on it then.

Consulting your spiritual father is probably a good idea when it comes to any spiritual reading. But this is the first time I've heard of anyone being discouraged from reading the Ladder. All the clergy I've ever come across heartily recommend it to everyone.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA (Old Calendar)
Posts: 6,789



« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2010, 01:14:06 AM »

All the clergy I've ever come across heartily recommend it to everyone.

Our local Serbian priests are just so thrilled whenever a parishioner might be interested in reading anything church-related, it's impossible for me to imagine them discouraging a reading of any Orthodox materials outside of services.
Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,378


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2010, 02:19:48 AM »

OK. Thanks. Sounds like I need to hold off on it then.

Consulting your spiritual father is probably a good idea when it comes to any spiritual reading. But this is the first time I've heard of anyone being discouraged from reading the Ladder. All the clergy I've ever come across heartily recommend it to everyone.

It can be a bit much for a newbie to Orthodoxy, so consulting one's SF is definitely a good idea.

On the whole though, it's an excellent book and well respected in the Church.
Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox. With some feta, please.
Posts: 6,499



« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2010, 04:54:03 AM »

I would recommend that, if any new Orthodox choose to read The Ladder, that they do so under their spiritual father's supervision. My spiritual father said he will not allow me to read it for at least a few more years, because it's very difficult and has been known to drive people to despair, or into an unhealthy semi-monastic state (remember that it was written for monastics, not lay people).

Especially for those who are new to Orthodoxy and have not developed their spiritual muscles (or are still dealing with convertitis), the book can be too much to handle.

Ha! And I'm just reading it. Does this mean that I can't become a Fool-for-Christ-Gregorian Calendarist-Gaycult-WR Hermit?! This is so wrong!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 04:55:17 AM by Alpo » Logged
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2010, 07:43:08 PM »

I would recommend that, if any new Orthodox choose to read The Ladder, that they do so under their spiritual father's supervision. My spiritual father said he will not allow me to read it for at least a few more years, because it's very difficult and has been known to drive people to despair, or into an unhealthy semi-monastic state (remember that it was written for monastics, not lay people).

Especially for those who are new to Orthodoxy and have not developed their spiritual muscles (or are still dealing with convertitis), the book can be too much to handle.

I'm laying off of similar ascetic spirituality books for this very reason. Too much, too soon.
Logged
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 09:10:00 PM »

OK. Thanks. Sounds like I need to hold off on it then.

Consulting your spiritual father is probably a good idea when it comes to any spiritual reading. But this is the first time I've heard of anyone being discouraged from reading the Ladder. All the clergy I've ever come across heartily recommend it to everyone.

Oh definitely, it is an Orthodox staple. He just wants to ensure that I can handle milk (i.e., saying my prayers consistently) before I fill my mind with epic ascetical struggles. But everyone is different, that is why we have SF's. Smiley
Logged
CBGardner
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 618


Ask w/ tears, seek w/ obedience, knock w/ patience


« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2011, 08:06:21 PM »

I would recommend that, if any new Orthodox choose to read The Ladder, that they do so under their spiritual father's supervision. My spiritual father said he will not allow me to read it for at least a few more years, because it's very difficult and has been known to drive people to despair, or into an unhealthy semi-monastic state (remember that it was written for monastics, not lay people).

Especially for those who are new to Orthodoxy and have not developed their spiritual muscles (or are still dealing with convertitis), the book can be too much to handle.

Ha! And I'm just reading it. Does this mean that I can't become a Fool-for-Christ-Gregorian Calendarist-Gaycult-WR Hermit?! This is so wrong!
This is old but made me fall off my chair laughing.
Logged

Authentic zeal is not directed towards anything but union in Christ, or against anything but our own fallenness.

"Beardliness is next to Godliness."- Asteriktos
Hinterlander
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 516


« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 02:31:02 PM »

Holy Transfiguration Monastery's edition is back in print.

http://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569
Logged
Tags: Ladder of Divine Ascent St. John Climacus 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.094 seconds with 50 queries.