Author Topic: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia  (Read 9446 times)

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Offline Myrrh23

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Lord be with this country! :(

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KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia - Three Malaysian Christian churches were attacked with firebombs Friday, causing extensive damage to one and sharply escalating religious tensions in the country over the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslim minorities.

Prime Minister Najib Razak condemned the attacks by unidentified assailants, who struck before dawn in different suburbs of Kuala Lumpur. He said the government "will take whatever steps it can to prevent such acts."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34762332/ns/world_news-asiapacific/
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 10:35:38 PM »
Lord, have mercy.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 10:58:12 PM »
Lord, have mercy!

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 11:03:40 PM »
Islam is still the religion of peace though.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 11:24:35 PM »
What different word would they suggest Malay-speaking Christians use?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 11:26:17 PM by Iconodule »
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When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 11:29:44 PM »
What different word would they suggest Malay-speaking Christians use?

Uh, how about GOD? Duh! ::)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 11:30:16 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2010, 12:11:54 AM »
What different word would they suggest Malay-speaking Christians use?

Uh, how about GOD? Duh! ::)

But if they don't speak English as a first language why would they wish to use the word God? (Apparently the Malay word for God/Allah is Tuhan.)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 12:15:49 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2010, 12:13:30 AM »
KUALA LUMPUR: A Malaysian court ruled that Christians have the constitutional right to use the word Allah to refer to God, striking down a  
government ban as illegal.

The landmark ruling is a victory for freedom of religion in the Muslim-majority country, where the ban had become a symbol of what minorities say is institutionalized religious discrimination.

Authorities have insisted Allah is an Islamic word that should be used only by Muslims, and its use by other religions would be misleading.

Dated 1/1/10.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Malay-Catholics-can-use-Allah/articleshow/5401162.cms
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 12:14:11 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 12:23:03 AM »
Lord have Mercy!

I just saw pictures of Christian girls beheaded a few years ago in the region, coming home from Christian schools.  Memory eternal!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 12:24:13 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline observer

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 12:26:18 AM »
Allah is not our God.
Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 12:31:21 AM »
Allah is not our God.

The Arabic-speaking Christians would beg to differ.
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When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2010, 12:34:22 AM »
Allah is not our God.

He has been since long before Islam came along.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline _Seraphim_

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 12:47:37 AM »
+Lord have mercy!
"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike."
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Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 12:56:08 AM »
Allah is not our God.

He has been since long before Islam came along.

From the article, bold wording mine:
Quote
The tribes people speak only Malay, and have always referred to God as Allah, an Arabic word that predates Islam.

Look up "Allah before Islam" on the Web, Observer. For Christians, he is vastly different than the Allah that violent Muslims worship.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 01:04:52 AM by Myrrh23 »
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 12:58:59 AM »
Allah is not our God.

I have sung the Trisagion Hymn in Arabic and know that you are quite incorrect. Quddouson Allah! Quddouson ul-qawee! Quddouson ulladhee la yamout! Irhamna
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2010, 01:00:05 AM »
Allah is not our God.

He has been since long before Islam came along.

Quote
From the article, bold wording mine:
Quote
The tribes people speak only Malay, and have always referred to God as Allah, an Arabic word that predates Islam.

Indeed, Myrrh. (Grrrrrr. I can't get the quoting thingies to work right!)

Just make sure you type after all the close quote markups and you should not have any problems - Arimethea
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 01:52:00 AM by arimethea »
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2010, 03:02:47 AM »
But if they don't speak English as a first language why would they wish to use the word God? (Apparently the Malay word for God/Allah is Tuhan.)

Sarcasm really doesn't come across online.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2010, 05:10:41 AM »
But if they don't speak English as a first language why would they wish to use the word God? (Apparently the Malay word for God/Allah is Tuhan.)

Sarcasm really doesn't come across online.

LOl - Sorry, I'm just dense at the moment. Got the flu!
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2010, 10:12:19 PM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2010, 01:25:29 AM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

Why are English-speakers using the Greek word Theotokos:angel:
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2010, 01:30:17 AM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

Why are English-speakers using the Greek word Theotokos:angel:

Heh. That one should be an obvious enough answer, no?

Offline LBK

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2010, 01:48:56 AM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

Why are English-speakers using the Greek word Theotokos:angel:

Heh. That one should be an obvious enough answer, no?

Exactly. So why should there be a stink about Christians living in a Moslem country using the Arabic name for God? Just sayin'.  :)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2010, 02:01:12 AM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

Why are English-speakers using the Greek word Theotokos:angel:

Heh. That one should be an obvious enough answer, no?

Exactly. So why should there be a stink about Christians living in a Moslem country using the Arabic name for God? Just sayin'.  :)

We use Theotokos because it was part of the dogmatic definition of the First Council of Ephesus.

Muslims outside of the Middle East use "Allah" because they understand a connection between their religion and Arabic.

What reason do Malay Christians have to use "Allah" even if the Muslims around them do so?

I do not think the outrage is justified, but the usage also doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2010, 02:05:29 AM »
We use Theotokos because it was part of the dogmatic definition of the First Council of Ephesus.

No way. There are many reasons above that one for using the term, including:

- Birthgiver of God is wordy, and sounds silly at times.
- Theotokos sounds exotic and cool.
- Phrases like "Theotokos save us" doesn't frighten away potential converts too quickly, because they probably assume that Theotokos means God.
- Using the term theotokos makes Orthodox converts who don't know a lick of Greek feel special.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 02:06:19 AM by Asteriktos »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2010, 07:14:06 PM »
- Birthgiver of God is wordy, and sounds silly at times.

The funny thing is, the Romanians basically did this with "Nascatoare de Dumnezeu." Now that's a mouthful!
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When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2010, 08:49:05 PM »

- Birthgiver of God is wordy, and sounds silly at times.

I like it. It's complicated enough that it makes you think of the theological implications, unlike something simplistic like "bearer of God".

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 09:23:01 PM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

 FWIW, back when I was a practicing Muslim and married to an Indonesian (Indonesians speak Malay), everyone used the word Allah whether or not they were Christian, Muslim or even atheist.  I don't remember how many years Indonesia and Malaysia have been predominantly Islamic (several hundred I believe), but the word Allah is simply a part of the vernacular now.  Just like Theotokos and Christ are vernacular for English speaking Orthodox.  Hope this helps.  :)
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 09:32:46 PM »
Why are they using "Allah" if they are not Muslims with some inherent religious attachment to Arabic nor regionally Arabic with a local attachment?

 FWIW, back when I was a practicing Muslim and married to an Indonesian (Indonesians speak Malay), everyone used the word Allah whether or not they were Christian, Muslim or even atheist.  I don't remember how many years Indonesia and Malaysia have been predominantly Islamic (several hundred I believe), but the word Allah is simply a part of the vernacular now.  Just like Theotokos and Christ are vernacular for English speaking Orthodox.  Hope this helps.  :)

Oh, ok! Thanks! I think that explains things.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Controversy over use of "Allah" by non-Muslims turns violent in Malaysia
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2010, 10:09:03 PM »
- Birthgiver of God is wordy, and sounds silly at times.

The funny thing is, the Romanians basically did this with "Nascatoare de Dumnezeu." Now that's a mouthful!

Actually, given the structure of Romanian, not really.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth