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Author Topic: In Defense of IPC Against Irish Hermit's Unwarranted Criticism  (Read 10291 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2010, 11:39:27 PM »

Are IPC's attacks on Patriarch Kirill and the late Patriarch Pavle warranted?
He thinks they are, and has given reasons why. If you disagree, correct him.


I cannot correct him in this thread
I know this may be a difficult concept for you to understand at first because it's such a radical idea, but stick with me on this one:
Why not correct him on the other thread?
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« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2010, 11:52:04 PM »


Try living in the same area with them, having them as work peers, try enjoying a ball with them causing all sort of problems. Have moslems and others done anything to you? Have you been forced to deal with them 24/7?


Yes, when a young monk I have been beaten up by Muslims in Prizren, and being spat upon was an almost everyday occurrence.

While I was a novice and then a monk at the holy monastery of Zica I have been beaten up and bloodied several times by Communists.

I think I have written about these things somewhere on the Forum...

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« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2010, 11:52:51 PM »

Are IPC's attacks on Patriarch Kirill and the late Patriarch Pavle warranted?
He thinks they are, and has given reasons why. If you disagree, correct him.


I cannot correct him in this thread
I know this may be a difficult concept for you to understand at first because it's such a radical idea, but stick with me on this one:
Why not correct him on the other thread?


Not understand.
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« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2010, 01:20:15 AM »

I remember that there was a brief thread in the middle of last year with the same theme  ~ to defend IPC against Irish Hermit.

"Building a case for IRISH HERMIT"

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21995.0.html


It centres on IPC's extraordinary accusation that Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Church Abroad is complict in murder and as a reward for that he was appointed to the head position of Metropolitan by the Church in Moscow.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21963.0.html

And I notice that even in this amazing accusation Peter the Aleut is supporting IPC and the evidence he provides from a certain Preobrazensky to convict Metropolitan Hilarion of being a murderer.

In defence of IPC, we can see that his scurrilous attacks on Orthodox hierarchs is not a new phenomenon but he has been consistent in attacking them since his appearance on the Forum.  I admire his consistency.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 01:38:41 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2010, 02:14:30 AM »

For instance, in 2001, the MP created in the USA its own ROCOR, formed by infiltrated individuals, like Met. Laurus, Met Hilarion and others, who with the unlimited resources provided by the russian government, left ROCOR taking with them Churches, relics, money, and everything they could.
To be fair, can you give us any evidence to support this new allegation?

Absolutely! From the book "The KGB in Russian Immigration" by Konstantin Preobrazhensky published in the USA by Liberty Publishing of NY the information about the unfiltered persons in provided.

In Chapter 2, entitled "Operation ROCOR" he describes how the Russian Government through the Moscow Patriarchate is achieving its goal to put church-going Russian immigrants all over the world under its control, and to make the church buildings of the ROCOR the state property of the Kremlin. Thus the Russian government will turn all ROCOR properties into outposts of Russian State interests in America and other Western nations.

Preobrazhensky writes the following: " Metropolitan Laurus Skurla has been quietly yielding the ROCOR to the MP for many years. It is very likely that Laurus was recruited back in the 1970's during his trips in the Cold War period to communist Czechoslovakia. Laurus made these trips to visit his brother, a known Communist Party leader. How did Laurus obtain a Visa to the Communist Russian satellite nation of Czechoslovakia so easily during the Cold War period? Only those with close ties with the KGB could have done so during this period.

In another public article, Preobrazhensky called "poisonings in ROCOR" posted in portalcredo,  describes the death of Metropolitan Philaret, i.e. Saint Philaret the Confessor of ROCOR, as related to poisoning and described how Met. Hilarion (Kapral) rushed into the room, and immediately cleaned the vomit coming from St Philaret's mouth. When Met. Hilarion was in charge of the Synodical Building, as Bishop of Manhattan, a sergianist seminarian stole the founding act of ROCOR, and handed it to the Moscow Patriarchate. The access to the Synodical Building in NYC is very restricted, no one can simply walk in, specially not into the offices where such important documents are kept.

Curiously is the order of the appointment of the leaders of the new ROCOR, first Metropolitan Laurus, now Metropolitan Hilarion. It wouldn't surprise me if the next in the bureaucratic escalator would be Mark Arnt.
 
Seeing those who get most of benefits, is an accurate way to see who had been working for the formation of that MP dependency.

On the other hand, the formation of the new ROCOR was followed by various meetings with President Putin, both in the Russian Embassy in the USA, who again and again offered them full support.

Representatives of the new ROCOR launched a series of legal actions, to take Churches, holy relics and money. To show how they work, I will bring to your attention the case of the Monastery of the Icon of the Mother of God of Vladimir. The new ROCOR wanted to take the Monastery, and all what's in there, expelling the elderly innocent nuns living there.

In the first stage of their tactic, they tried to send nuns to take control of the Monastery, they bullied the resident nuns, but they were always sent back home, so, the new ROCOR official hired lawyers, and sued the nuns. In of of the depositions, the elderly Igumenya Evgenia, suffered a heart attack. In an off court settlement, the nuns could keep the all the relics, their 5 miracle working icons, and some of their money, but they were forced to give the new ROCOR a lot of money, the monastery in which they now live, and other assets.

They don't care if they leave innocent elderly women on the street, all they care is to carry on the plans of giving everything to their new superiors.

I hope you are satisfied with some of the reasons of why I have such an opinion.

By the way, I am not defending myself, as I can not do this under any circumstance now Smiley

You're being warned (duration: 1 month) for not referring respectfully to the names of hierarchs of the Orthodox Church.  In the future, understand that all hierarchs of our Churches (ROCOR, MP, etc.) should at least be addressed with a level of respect (even if you don't support them) - this same respect is due your own hierarchs, even if others don't support them.

If you feel that this warning is in error, PM Fr. Chris to appeal.

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« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 06:07:22 PM by Fr. George » Logged

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« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2010, 02:21:11 AM »


By the way, I am not defending myself, as I can not do this under any circumstance now Smiley


There is no need to defend yourself on this thread whose only purpose is to defend you.  Sit back, relax, and allow others to write and defend you.
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« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2010, 02:41:33 AM »

Wow, this thread is disrespectful to a lot of people in a lot of ways.  Sad
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« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2010, 02:52:19 AM »

[quote author = IPC link = topic = 25235.msg393900 # msg393900 date = 1262844870]
[quote author = PeterTheAleut link = topic = 25235.msg393822 # msg393822 date = 1262833493]
[quote author = IPC link = topic = 25235.msg393819 # msg393819 date = 1262833289]
For instance, in 2001, the MP created in the USA its own Faith, formed by infiltrated individuals, like Met. Laurus, Met Hilarion and others, who with the unlimited resources provided by the Russian government, taking with them left Faith Churches, Relics, money, and everything they could.
[/ Quote]
To be fair, can you give us any evidence to support this new allegation?
[/ Quote]

Absolutely! From the book "The KGB in Russian Immigration" by Konstantin Preobrazhensky published in the USA by Liberty Publishing of NY the unfiltered information about the persons in provided.

In Chapter 2, entitled "Operation Faith" he describes how the Russian Government through the Moscow Patriarchate is achieving its goal to put church-going Russian immigrants all over the world under its control, and to make the church buildings of the Faith the State Property of the Kremlin. Thus the Russian government will turn all ROCOR properties into Russian outposts of State interests in America and other Western nations.

Preobrazhensky writes the following: "Metropolitan Laurus Skurla has been quietly yielding the ROCOR to the MP for many years. It is very l ikely [/ b] that Laurus was Recruited back in the 1970's during his trips in the Cold War period to communist Czechoslovakia. Laurus made these trips to visit his brother, a known Communist Party leader. How [/ b] Laurus did obtain a Visa to the Russian Communist satellite nation of Czechoslovakia so easily during the Cold War period ? Only those with close ties with the KGB could have done so during this period.[/quote]

Likely? How? "Known?" sounds like a lot of conjecture on the part of someone who should purportedly know the facts, as is being made out.

Quote
In another public article, Preobrazhensky called "poisonings in Faith 'posted on portalcredo, describes the death of Metropolitan Philaret, ie Saint Philaret Confessor of the Faith, as related to poisoning and described how Met. Hilarion (Kapra) rushed into the room, and immediately cleaned the vomit coming from St. .. .. Philaret's mouth. When Met. Hilarion was in charge of the Synodical Building, as Bishop of Manhattan, the sergianist seminarian stole the founding act of Faith, and handed it to the Moscow Patriarchate. The Access to the Synodical Building in NYC is very restricted, no one can simply walk in, specially not into the offices where such important documents are kept.
Important documents like assassination contracts?
and what, possession of the founding act of Faith acts like a voodoo doll to control the faithful?
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« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2010, 04:00:45 AM »

I remember that there was a brief thread in the middle of last year with the same theme  ~ to defend IPC against Irish Hermit.

"Building a case for IRISH HERMIT"

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21995.0.html


It centres on IPC's extraordinary accusation that Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Church Abroad is complict in murder and as a reward for that he was appointed to the head position of Metropolitan by the Church in Moscow.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21963.0.html

And I notice that even in this amazing accusation Peter the Aleut is supporting IPC and the evidence he provides from a certain Preobrazensky to convict Metropolitan Hilarion of being a murderer.
I asked only that evidence be provided, not that it be enough to prove a case.  So no, I did not defend the substance of the evidence itself.
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« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2010, 04:23:41 AM »

I remember that there was a brief thread in the middle of last year with the same theme  ~ to defend IPC against Irish Hermit.

"Building a case for IRISH HERMIT"

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21995.0.html


It centres on IPC's extraordinary accusation that Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Church Abroad is complict in murder and as a reward for that he was appointed to the head position of Metropolitan by the Church in Moscow.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21963.0.html

And I notice that even in this amazing accusation Peter the Aleut is supporting IPC and the evidence he provides from a certain Preobrazensky to convict Metropolitan Hilarion of being a murderer.
I asked only that evidence be provided, not that it be enough to prove a case.  So no, I did not defend the substance of the evidence itself.

I most certainly demanded that incontrovertible evidence be provided by IPC for the accusation that Metropolitan Hilarion is an accomplice to murder.

"If these are not lies then I want them substantiated.  I want them substantiated to at least the level that the Forum Staff (and the Forum membership) are convinced that there is sufficient evidence to believe it possible that Metropolitan Hilarion is an accessory to murder."

(Msg #20.  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21963.0.html )

At this point the thread was closed by Fr Anastasios, leaving IPC's accusation of murder hanging in the air.

I later learnt that IPC's accusation was brought to the attention of senior clergy in NY but I do not know what, if any, action was taken.
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« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2010, 04:35:33 AM »


The violence of the new ROCOR expanded like fire, to France, USA, Canada, Belgium, South America, Australia, and even inside the former USSR.

The attitude of Irish Hermit is typical of the new ROCOR under the Moscow Patriarchate, you can see how they try by all means to annihilate the True Russian Orthodox Christians, that bare witness of their unchristian deeds and teachings.


Please, IPC, this is utter balderdash (do Americans use that word?)   Seven months ago you were publically accusing Metropolitan Hilarion the head of the new ROCOR of being an accomplice to the murder of Metropolitan Philaret.

What happened next?  Was the violence of the new ROCOR unleashed on you?  Were you visited in the night by ROCOR agents?   Were shots fired through your windows?  Were legal writs and subpoenas issued against you?  Were you threatened or harrassed in any way?  What violence did ROCOR use against you?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:57:23 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2010, 05:53:57 AM »

I remember that there was a brief thread in the middle of last year with the same theme  ~ to defend IPC against Irish Hermit.

"Building a case for IRISH HERMIT"

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21995.0.html


It centres on IPC's extraordinary accusation that Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Church Abroad is complict in murder and as a reward for that he was appointed to the head position of Metropolitan by the Church in Moscow.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21963.0.html

And I notice that even in this amazing accusation Peter the Aleut is supporting IPC and the evidence he provides from a certain Preobrazensky to convict Metropolitan Hilarion of being a murderer.
I asked only that evidence be provided, not that it be enough to prove a case.  So no, I did not defend the substance of the evidence itself.

I most certainly demanded that incontrovertible evidence be provided by IPC for the accusation that Metropolitan Hilarion is an accomplice to murder.
And it's certainly your prerogative to ask for such evidence on this forum.  However, it cannot be said that I defended the evidence he provided if my only responsibility was to make sure he gave us at least enough evidence to suggest that he didn't just fabricate the charges himself.  I can't object to you holding him to a higher standard of proof by asking him to prove the charges to you, but such was beyond the scope of what I needed to request as a moderator.

"If these are not lies then I want them substantiated.  I want them substantiated to at least the level that the Forum Staff (and the Forum membership) are convinced that there is sufficient evidence to believe it possible that Metropolitan Hilarion is an accessory to murder."
And he provided the evidence at least to my satisfaction as a member of the Forum Staff.  Ultimately, it wasn't enough to convince me beyond any doubt that the charges were true, but he provided at least enough evidence to suggest that the charges were possible.

(Msg #20.  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21963.0.html )

At this point the thread was closed by Fr Anastasios, leaving IPC's accusation of murder hanging in the air.

I later learnt that IPC's accusation was brought to the attention of senior clergy in NY but I do not know what, if any, action was taken.
Considering that we are now discussing criminal allegations, possibly reviving a discussion on which Fr. Anastasios put the kibosh, I strongly recommend we stop this specific subthread and talk about other cases where IPC made accusations you would have liked him to substantiate to your satisfaction.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 06:40:56 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2010, 11:23:59 AM »

I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  

Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.

You said: "Perhaps the catacomb Church is in the catacombs for a reason.

Really, George, I don't think that my questioning of IPC and my defence of my Church and Patriarch against his accusations amount to such a persecutin that I can be credited with driving an entire Church into the catacombs.  At least, I don't myself believe I can be held responsible for the Zarist Church's catacomb existence.  Do any others think I am responsible?   Shocked

I think Peter and George are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from criticism, even if such criticism is extreme. There is no question that IPC tends to write inflammatory and extremely offensive (to me at least) posts. Father Ambrose had the right as another poster to condemn IPC's post. He did NOT call for the administrators to censor and expel IPC. I have no idea where Peter and George get their justification to jump on Father Ambrose (and Isa) at the earliest opportunity but they do. BTW, I am not talking about Peter and George as current and former administrators but fellow posters. It just completely blows my mind why Peter and George are so nit picky with everything that Father Ambrose and Isa (and Gebre, to think of it) say. It is not as if Peter and George, like many of us, do not have strong opinions. I just don't get it.

Peter and George are in a war with Fr. Ambrose and Isa. It doesn't matter what the subject is about.
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« Reply #103 on: January 07, 2010, 12:57:55 PM »


Regarding the title of this folder -

There is no defense of IPC's attack against Fr Ambrose.  IPC digs his own grave deeper with every post he makes.  How can one take such nonsense seriously?

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« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 01:04:25 PM by Orthodoc » Logged

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« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2010, 01:16:01 PM »

Thread locked pending moderatorial review

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