Author Topic: Glossolalia vs. Xenoglossy - Pentecostals and "Speaking in Tongues"  (Read 7347 times)

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Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: Glossolalia vs. Xenoglossy - Pentecostals and "Speaking in Tongues"
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2010, 07:05:20 PM »
Someone asked me if I speak in tounges, and I said "Sure. I'm speaking one now".
"For I am With thee, withersoever thou goest"

Joshua 1:9

Offline Azul

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Re: Glossolalia vs. Xenoglossy - Pentecostals and "Speaking in Tongues"
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2010, 06:52:43 AM »
What about this verse in particular?

This highlighted verse seems to imply that (at least) some of those who spoke in tongues spoke in a language that only God could interpret. Couldn't the pentecostals use this verse to make a valid case for their "gibberish"?

The mysteries of God are "another language"... Look at the parables of Christ, the prophecies, etc.. They are not to be taken literally.. This are the "tongues of the angels" : The doctrine of God.

Hello there,

If you examine 1 Cor 13:1-3 you will see that Paul is using exaggerated language to bring home his point that love is greater than the gifts. For example in 1 Cor. 13:3 he speaks about having all knowledge while at the same time he knew that he could not have all knowledge as knowledge was 'in part' (1 Cor. 13:9). What he is saying in these verses is, in effect, "Even if I could jump over the moon and had not love then I have nothing". So, he is not saying he could speak in tongues of angels but that 'even if' he could and didn't have love then he had nothing. There is no such thing as tongues of angels.

Also, the reason tongues sounded like mysteries at times was simply because foreign languages do sound like mysteries to us ... that is why Paul said that without an interpreter the speaker was to keep it between himself and God as no one is edified unless there is understanding.

God bless,
Mick

Paul makes reference in verse one to the "tongues of angels" ..This is the thing to which he refered as "the tongues of angels" , the knowledge of God, the knowledge of the spiritual world , and the knowledge of this world  "the tongues of men".. I was not refering to the tongues of angels as a non-human language..
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline aureo.ferreira

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Re: Glossolalia vs. Xenoglossy - Pentecostals and "Speaking in Tongues"
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2010, 07:43:12 AM »
Hello to all brothers in Christ.

Within the Orthodox tradition the Church Fathers used two approaches to deal with it "Gift of Tongues", namely:

1) A focused approach people who did not achieve sufficient levels of illumination to understand spiritual things, here they approached the subject so that people could absorb the "truths of faith";

And when it comes to the term "speaking in tongues" they always boiled down the issue to two hypotheses:

a - The Apostles spoke several languages and Diaspora Jews understood the apostolic message;

b - The Apostles spoke Hebrew (or Aramaic) and the Holy Spirit translated the message in the heart of every gift to his native dialect.

That is, either they [the Fathers] did work a miracle on the side of the Apostles (to emphasize the role of apostolic] or the side of the Jews who received the message delivered by the Apostles (thus emphasizing the unity of people with God through the Holy Spirit) .

However Tradition shows us that the language included in the day of Pentecost was only a miracle that happened in that place! So what is the gift of tongues or "speak with one language," according to the Holy Orthodox Church of Christ?

Before we enter the heart of the matter is to say that western translations of the scriptures facilitate the misinterpretation of terms related to the gift of tongues, for example:

1) The text of Acts 2:4 in the KJV is not perfectly translated, and needs an alternate translation is found in the YLT (the Apostolic Bible also translated correctly):

"and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare."

2) In the text of 1 Corinthians 14:2 and an accurate translation is orthodox:

"for he who is speaking in an [unknown] tongue -- to men he does not speak, but to God, for no one does listen [hear], and in spirit he does speak secrets [mysteries];"

These translations reflect the scriptures as the Fathers read and embody our traditions about the events related to Varieties of languages.

With this information it is easy to understand the tongues of the Church of Christ, let us see the text of Acts 2:4 and interpret according to the Enlightened Church Fathers:

"and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare."

The sentences underlined in the short mention:

# to speak with other tongues - is noetic prayer that occurs within [heart] the son of God who is baptized with the Holy Spirit (chrism), which is inaudible outside.

# to declare - This sentence is a reference to the gift of prophecy, the Greek word (αποφθέγγεσθαι) translated as "to declare" is synonymous of "prophesy", as reference to check the lexical BDAG, LEH, Liddel Scott and Moulton & Milligan.

So that the Jews called them crazy! They were prophesying (and the Prophets to the Jews ceased after the death of Malachi), and this attitude is natural in the Jewish perspective.

And according to 1 Corinthians 14:2 nobody listens to one who "speaks in tongues".

Basically it.

Big hug.

Cordially.

In Christ, our Savior.

“The Spirit prays truly spiritual prayers in the heart of the Saints, prayers that when recorded are full of ineffable and wonderful teachings.” (Origen of Alexandria)

Offline aureo.ferreira

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Re: Glossolalia vs. Xenoglossy - Pentecostals and "Speaking in Tongues"
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2010, 08:36:03 AM »
Hello to all brothers in Christ.

Within the Orthodox tradition the Church Fathers used two approaches to deal with it "Gift of Tongues", namely:

A focused approach people who did not achieve sufficient levels of illumination to understand spiritual things, here they approached the subject so that people could absorb the "truths of faith";

And when it comes to the term "speaking in tongues" they always boiled down the issue to two hypotheses:

a - The Apostles spoke several languages and Diaspora Jews understood the apostolic message;

b - The Apostles spoke Hebrew (or Aramaic) and the Holy Spirit translated the message in the heart of every gift to his native dialect.

That is, either they [the Fathers] did work a miracle on the side of the Apostles (to emphasize the role of apostolic] or the side of the Jews who received the message delivered by the Apostles (thus emphasizing the unity of people with God through the Holy Spirit) .

However Tradition shows us that the language included in the day of Pentecost was only a miracle that happened in that place! So what is the gift of tongues or "speak with one language," according to the Holy Orthodox Church of Christ?

Before we enter the heart of the matter is to say that western translations of the scriptures facilitate the misinterpretation of terms related to the gift of tongues, for example:

1) The text of Acts 2:4 in the KJV is not perfectly translated, and needs an alternate translation is found in the YLT (the Apostolic Bible also translated correctly):

"and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare."

2) In the text of 1 Corinthians 14:2 and an accurate translation is orthodox:

"for he who is speaking in an [unknown] tongue -- to men he does not speak, but to God, for no one does listen [hear], and in spirit he does speak secrets [mysteries];"

These translations reflect the scriptures as the Fathers read and embody our traditions about the events related to Varieties of languages.

With this information it is easy to understand the tongues of the Church of Christ, let us see the text of Acts 2:4 and interpret according to the Enlightened Church Fathers:

"and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare."

The sentences underlined in the short mention:

# to speak with other tongues - is noetic prayer that occurs within [heart] the son of God who is baptized with the Holy Spirit (chrism), which is inaudible outside.

# to declare - This sentence is a reference to the gift of prophecy, the Greek word (αποφθέγγεσθαι) translated as "to declare" is synonymous of "prophesy", as reference to check the lexical BDAG, LEH, Liddel Scott and Moulton & Milligan.

So that the Jews called them crazy! They were prophesying (and the Prophets to the Jews ceased after the death of Malachi), and this attitude is natural in the Jewish perspective.

And according to 1 Corinthians 14:2 nobody listens to one who "speaks in tongues".

A good reference on this subject is the work of Priest and Bishop John Romanides Hierotheus of Nafpakos.

Basically it.

Big hug.

Cordially.

In Christ, our Savior.
“The Spirit prays truly spiritual prayers in the heart of the Saints, prayers that when recorded are full of ineffable and wonderful teachings.” (Origen of Alexandria)

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Glossolalia vs. Xenoglossy - Pentecostals and "Speaking in Tongues"
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2010, 02:31:07 AM »
^ Duplicate posts?
Not all who wander are lost.