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Poll
Question: How often do you pray the Rosary in some form as an Orthodox devotion?
Regularly. - 2 (3.7%)
Sometimes. - 12 (22.2%)
Rarely. - 6 (11.1%)
I've tried it, but it's not for me. - 4 (7.4%)
Never. - 30 (55.6%)
Total Voters: 54

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« on: January 02, 2010, 01:29:59 PM »

This poll is strictly for practicing Orthodox, but everyone is welcome to comment. A while ago, I posted a poll concerning the Jesus Prayer. I thought I would conduct this for comparison. For those unfamiliar with the Orthodox version of the Rosary, this link provides an example of such:

http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary.html

Thanks for participating!  Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2010, 03:39:02 PM »

The rosary is a Roman Catholic practice, we, True Orthodox Christians don't have it.

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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2010, 03:47:57 PM »

The rosary is a Roman Catholic practice, we, True Orthodox Christians don't have it.



You mean St. Seraphim of Sarov wasn't a "true" Orthodox? Interesting.

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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 04:41:32 PM »

I do sometimes.  I truly love the Orthodox church and everything about it, that's why I'm converting.  But, sometimes I turn on EWTN at the vatican.  everything looks so beautiful that I question whether I want to join the western church instead Huh.  I prey the holy rosary, but then I glance at the golden icon I have sitting next to my bed.  It is the Theotokos of Vladimir, that the man I will ask to be my godfather got me for Christmas.  she, and her holy begotten son stare at me through the paint, and I get this feeling of "OK, I'm back Smiley". 

But, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with praying the rosary.  It's just for me, the rosary reminds me of my "everyone who's not a papist is going to hell!" grandmother.  oh my gosh, the color my protestant mother's face turned when my grandmother sent me home with a rosary...... Shocked
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2010, 08:10:00 PM »

I must admit, I wasn't aware of this prayer; or if I was I had forgotten it .... that's possible!  laugh

But what a lovely prayer!
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 10:59:37 PM »

The rosary is a Roman Catholic practice, we, True Orthodox Christians don't have it.
These are the prayers used in the rosary.  Guess what?  You, an Orthodox Christian, have said some form of all of them.

Apostles’ Creed   
Our Father   
Hail Marys      
Glory be to the Father   

Orthodox Christians believe in the 20 Mysteries included in the rosary.
 
There were Russian adaptations of the Rosary in the 1700s and 1800s. St Seraphim of Sarov is said to have had one. Please don't launch on St. Seraphim.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/RuleofMotherofGod.htm
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2010, 11:09:56 PM »

Orthodox Christians believe in the 20 Mysteries included in the rosary.
The Orthodox do not accept the "Coronation of the Virgin" as an even to be "believed in". It isn't Dogma.
  
There were Russian adaptations of the Rosary in the 1700s and 1800s. St Seraphim of Sarov is said to have had one. Please don't launch on St. Seraphim.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/RuleofMotherofGod.htm
Many Roman Catholic practices found their way into Russian prayer books (such as "The Tale Of The Five Prayers"- now removed from the Jordanville Prayer Book) and even Sacraments (such as the Absolution Prayer of Metropolitan Peter Moghila). The most that can be said is that these are practices of the Slavic Church, which doesn't automatically make them "Orthodox".
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2010, 11:18:52 PM »

I've never prayed the Rosary, but then my experience with Catholicism has largely been academic (ie. thinking about and arguing over this or that dogma), rather than hands-on. I have, of course, prayed some Orthodox prayers which are similar to, but probably lesser known than, their western counterparts, such as the Hail Mary.
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 11:39:38 PM »

Question ? To Meditate on rosary mysteries doen't one have to visulize in there mind or have mental images ,, Isn't that forbidden in Holy Orthodoxy ......So I don't say the rosary........
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 11:55:43 PM »

Orthodox Christians believe in the 20 Mysteries included in the rosary.
The Orthodox do not accept the "Coronation of the Virgin" as an even to be "believed in". It isn't Dogma.
You are correct that the Church does not support an actually coronation ceremony, but who is the King’s mother?   The title, Queen Mary, was even used by early Christians. 

This is the Catholic mystery- The Coronation of Our Lady
    1.   A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the  sun, with the moon under her feet and on her head a crown of twelve stars
   2.   Mary was crowned queen of heaven and earth. Our most beloved mother now reigns in the court of heaven!
   3.   Imagine her joy to hear the choirs of angelic voices! Imagine her joy to see the angels and saints praising God!
   4.   She--who carried the baby Jesus in her womb, who held Him in her arms, who walked by His side during the Passion, who stood under His cross, who held His lifeless body and watched Him locked in the tomb--was now crowned Queen of Heaven, forever to reign in the court of heaven with her beloved Son.
   5.   If we remain faithful to the Lord until death, we too will receive a crown of life. In heaven shall be found every good.
   6.   Such treasures for us in heaven! The eye has not seen, the ear has not heard the glories that await him who serves the Lord!
   7.   Heaven is the kingdom of God. We are His heirs.
   8.   There is no more thirsting for union with God, no more longing for Him. We will experience such intense union with Him forever.
   9.   We will never want for love again. We will know His love.
   10.   We will see the face of God and live.
 

 
 
There were Russian adaptations of the Rosary in the 1700s and 1800s. St Seraphim of Sarov is said to have had one. Please don't launch on St. Seraphim.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/RuleofMotherofGod.htm
Many Roman Catholic practices found their way into Russian prayer books (such as "The Tale Of The Five Prayers"- now removed from the Jordanville Prayer Book) and even Sacraments (such as the Absolution Prayer of Metropolitan Peter Moghila). The most that can be said is that these are practices of the Slavic Church, which doesn't automatically make them "Orthodox".
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2010, 12:03:57 AM »

Question ? To Meditate on rosary mysteries doen't one have to visulize in there mind or have mental images ,, Isn't that forbidden in Holy Orthodoxy ......So I don't say the rosary........
If you pray in front of your icons, you have visual images in front of you.
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2010, 12:23:46 AM »

I answered "sometimes", but I should qualify that by saying I use the Nicene Creed, the Our Father, the Jesus Prayer, one of the four Mysteries (depending on the day) and then the Hail Mary (EO version).
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2010, 01:04:10 AM »

I answered "sometimes", but I should qualify that by saying I use the Nicene Creed, the Our Father, the Jesus Prayer, one of the four Mysteries (depending on the day) and then the Hail Mary (EO version).

What are the words to this version?
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2010, 01:05:12 AM »

Question ? To Meditate on rosary mysteries doen't one have to visulize in there mind or have mental images ,, Isn't that forbidden in Holy Orthodoxy ......So I don't say the rosary........
If you pray in front of your icons, you have visual images in front of you.

I have heard before that when you pray the Jesus Prayer, you should not allow mental images to enter into your mind, even if they are pious ones.
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2010, 01:31:54 AM »

I answered "sometimes", but I should qualify that by saying I use the Nicene Creed, the Our Father, the Jesus Prayer, one of the four Mysteries (depending on the day) and then the Hail Mary (EO version).

What are the words to this version?

From the Old Orthodox Prayer Book:
"Virgin Mother of God, rejoice, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast born Christ the Saviour, the Deliverer of our souls."


Roman Catholic version:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2010, 01:34:52 AM »

I have heard before that when you pray the Jesus Prayer, you should not allow mental images to enter into your mind, even if they are pious ones.

This is true. When praying the Jesus Prayer one has to concetrate on the words and say them from the heart rather than conjuring up images in our minds. Our minds should be still though obviously, this is very hard to achieve. Mental images can be harmful during prayer since the demons can send us all sorts of images to our mind.
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2010, 01:46:25 AM »

I believe it, images in ones mind ,take a life of there own eventually......
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2010, 01:47:05 AM »

I have heard before that when you pray the Jesus Prayer, you should not allow mental images to enter into your mind, even if they are pious ones.

This is true. When praying the Jesus Prayer one has to concetrate on the words and say them from the heart rather than conjuring up images in our minds. Our minds should be still though obviously, this is very hard to achieve. Mental images can be harmful during prayer since the demons can send us all sorts of images to our mind.

This raises another question.  Typically we need not close our eyes when praying, correct? Personally, I find it difficult to conjure mental images when my eyes are open!
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2010, 01:48:51 AM »




From the Old Orthodox Prayer Book:
"Virgin Mother of God, rejoice, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast born Christ the Saviour, the Deliverer of our souls."


I like the EO one better, but I must admit the first couple phrases don't flow all too well...
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2010, 02:09:44 AM »

Question ? To Meditate on rosary mysteries doen't one have to visulize in there mind or have mental images ,, Isn't that forbidden in Holy Orthodoxy ......So I don't say the rosary........
If you pray in front of your icons, you have visual images in front of you.

There is a significant difference between having actual physical images in front of you and exercising your own imagination while praying. And stashko is right that Orthodox manuals on prayer, from the Philokalia on, emphasize that one should not indulge the imagination during prayer
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2010, 05:06:07 AM »

Dear Stashko,

Prayer is talking to God, the Virgin, Angels, Saints, etc.

Just as when you talk to someone and pay attention to your words, and who you talk to, in prayer you must do the same.

This is why the Holy Fathers recommend to first read the prayers, and then understanding what they mean, to pray with your whole heart, with attention on what you are praying.

When praying, you should not pay attention to any feeling, image, smell, thought, etc. Just as when you study, all your attention must be placed in what you're doing.

Even if its a very nice feeling, or a beautiful image, we must not let it distract us.


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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2010, 06:29:59 PM »




From the Old Orthodox Prayer Book:
"Virgin Mother of God, rejoice, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast born Christ the Saviour, the Deliverer of our souls."


I like the EO one better, but I must admit the first couple phrases don't flow all too well...

From the "Prayer Book in Accordance with the Tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church:"
Rejoice Virgin Theotokos, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with you. Bless are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, for you have born the Saviour of our souls!

You can hear it sung here in Znamenny Chant.
http://orthodoxtwopartmusic.org/files/Rejoice-Lesser-Znamenny.mp3
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2010, 06:59:27 PM »

Never. The Rosary has never been a part of my devotional life, so I have no inclination to add it now, not even an Orthodox version.
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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2010, 07:34:49 PM »

Very early on I practiced the Jesus Prayer... so I've never had  a practice of saying the Roman Catholic Rosary. I never felt 'un-Catholic' just because I don't say the Rosary though.
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« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2010, 09:23:24 PM »

Rosary is a word that refers to a specific set of prayers and contemplations (reflections, meditations) created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century, as method of indoctrination, and the set of prayer beads as a didactic aid to keep track.

The set of prayers consist on the following:

1.- The catholic distortion of the creed, in the article about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father only. Catholics say otherwise.

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

3.- The doxology "Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amim" is sometimes accompanied by by an Oh my Jesus.

The contemplations are founded on a summary of catholic interpretation of some acts in the in the life of the Most Holy Deipara and Christ, linked catholic theological interpretations on specific virtues, which are called Mysteries. The Mysteries have changed in the course of time.

Pope John Paul II introduced 5 new catholic dogmatic interpretations (Mysteries) in 2002, as optional.

Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed, we can see the traditional beads, and today's popular finger rosaries.

The Church can not accept dogmatical innovations nor distorted prayers, this is why as a true orthodox christian, I can't pray the rosary.






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« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2010, 10:46:46 PM »

Rosary is a word that refers to a specific set of prayers and contemplations (reflections, meditations) created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century, as method of indoctrination, and the set of prayer beads as a didactic aid to keep track.

The set of prayers consist on the following:

1.- The catholic distortion of the creed, in the article about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father only. Catholics say otherwise.

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

3.- The doxology "Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amim" is sometimes accompanied by by an Oh my Jesus.

The contemplations are founded on the catholic interpretation of some acts in the in the life of the Most Holy Deipara, and Christ our King and saviour,  connected with catholic theological interpretations on specific virtues, which are called Mysteries. The Mysteries have changed in the course of time.

Pope John Paul II introduced 5 new catholic dogmatic interpretations (Mysteries) in 2002, as optional, bringing the number of mysteries in the rosary to 20.

Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed,

The Church can not accept dogmatical innovations nor distorted prayers, this is why as a true orthodox christian, I am forbidden to pray the rosary.
You flatter yourself.

1. "Who proceeds..." He is a person, not a thing. But that's irrelevant because the Vatican and the WRO say the Apostles Creed, which doesn't say anything more than the Nicene Creed originally said "....in the Holy Spirit." Get your facts straight.
2. ἐπιούσιον is found in grocery lists of the time.  The Aramaic reads "bread-our of-needs-our today."  Ancient Orthodox translations so read. The Aramaic word for debt also means trespass. The difference between evil and evil one is linguistic, not dogmatic (since you made this statement, I'm assuming you only speak English). Get your facts straight.
3. "Ave," "Hail," "Shlama,"χαῖρε" are all greetings (since you like to nit pick, Luke doesn't say "Virgin").  You got another Savior besides Jesus? We Orthodox don't.  "Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls" isn't in the Angelic salutation either.  "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death." Do tell us, what it heterodox about that? Are you Nestorian?  Millitant Iconoclast? Get your facts straight, and your beliefs.
4. O my Jesus
Forgive us ours sins,
save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.

Terrible thoughts for an Orthodox to pray. Roll Eyes

The Trisagion, the Prayer of the Hours, etc. were once new prayers.  The rosary in and of itself had no dogmatic innovations, except the crowing of Mary in Heaven. Given the number of times I have seen crowns on the Theotokos in icons, I'm not so sure that's terribly heterodox if understood correctly.  You make false accusations of heterodoxy.  Like I said, get your facts straight.
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« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2010, 11:13:30 PM »

I have heard before that when you pray the Jesus Prayer, you should not allow mental images to enter into your mind, even if they are pious ones.

This is true. When praying the Jesus Prayer one has to concetrate on the words and say them from the heart rather than conjuring up images in our minds. Our minds should be still though obviously, this is very hard to achieve. Mental images can be harmful during prayer since the demons can send us all sorts of images to our mind.

This raises another question.  Typically we need not close our eyes when praying, correct? Personally, I find it difficult to conjure mental images when my eyes are open!

I believe it was either St. John Chrysostom or St. Basil the Great who wrote that one should pray in front of the holy icons with eyes tightly shut to avoid focusing on the icons and, instead, on cultivating prayer of the heart. 
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« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2010, 11:26:50 PM »

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

You do realize that this really only occurs in the English translation of the Lord's Prayer, a translation that most English-speaking Orthodox Christians use.  In fact, the New American Bible, the official bible of American Roman Catholics, translates the final words of the Lord's Prayer as "...from the evil one".

Quote
3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

Because, of course, the words of this prayer are magic and have to be said exactly the right way.  Latin speaking Christians have been using the word "Ave" as the first word the angelic salutation since at least Jerome.  I defy you to find one Church Father who ever complained about this particular translation of the Angelic Salutation.  As for the rest of the Latin version, no Catholic has ever intimated it was anything less than an addition beseeching the Theotokos to pray for one at the hour of one's death, much like many Orthodox prayers do.

Quote
Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed, we can see the traditional beads, and today's popular finger rosaries.

Prayer ropes/beads are just tools.  The chokti itself is an innovation, considering that the Desert Fathers used to carry around bags of stones to count their prayers. 

There are plenty of reasons for an Orthodox Christian to not pray the Rosary, but the above just exemplify a Pharisaical attitude towards prayer and show a chauvinism that is usually relegated to the most extreme Old Believers.
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2010, 12:10:11 AM »

Dear Schulz,

The distortions in the Lord's prayer do not only occur om the English translations, I've seen this also in translations in other languages, such as french, spanish, and romanian. Their use is also widely spread among orthodox jurisdictions because instead of translating the Orthodox Prayer books, they simply  take from Roman Catholic sources.

Despite what appears in the bible version you mentioned, most Roman Catholics use the form I mentioned above. "Daily bread, Forgive us our trespasses as we also forgive those ,,,, deliver us from evil."

The problem I see in the catholic "Hail mary" is not merely the wording, but its intention, which is rooted on the erred roman catholic mariology, which presents Her as a sort of co-redemptress, and the way to Christ. To refer to Her son as simply Jesus is disrespectful, we never call our Lord like that.

You are right, many of the the material tools are simple externals, however, the use of the chotki was an extra help given to us by an angel of God.

Long time ago, there was a dessert dweller praying in solitude using stones, but a demon came and mixed the stones, to make him loose track, and he had to start all over again, he asked God from help, and suddenly an angel appeared to him, and taught him how to make a chotki, so that he could continue praying with no distraction. The way to make a chotki is a monastic secret, I can't tell you how to make one, but I can tell you each knott is formed by 9 crosses, and demons can not even touch it because of the power of the cross.

There are canons that strictly forbid true orthodox christians to use such a heterodox set of prayers and meditations like the Rosary. Roman Catholicism is under several anathemas, and this means we true orthodox christians shun them, and reject every single thing from them.

Our Lord and God Jesus Christ gives us all in abundance, we have enough prayers, prayers that come directly from the Holy Spirit, and more, we have our Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit dwells in us, What could we possibly need when He is with us? Honestly, there is nothing the Roman Catholic Church can give us, we don't need its Rosary, we don't want it, we want nothing coming from them.



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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2010, 12:50:39 AM »

Rosary is a word that refers to a specific set of prayers and contemplations (reflections, meditations) created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century, as method of indoctrination, and the set of prayer beads as a didactic aid to keep track.

The set of prayers consist on the following:

1.- The catholic distortion of the creed, in the article about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father only. Catholics say otherwise.

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

3.- The doxology "Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amim" is sometimes accompanied by by an Oh my Jesus.

The contemplations are founded on the catholic interpretation of some acts in the in the life of the Most Holy Deipara, and Christ our King and saviour,  connected with catholic theological interpretations on specific virtues, which are called Mysteries. The Mysteries have changed in the course of time.

Pope John Paul II introduced 5 new catholic dogmatic interpretations (Mysteries) in 2002, as optional, bringing the number of mysteries in the rosary to 20.

Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed,

The Church can not accept dogmatical innovations nor distorted prayers, this is why as a true orthodox christian, I am forbidden to pray the rosary.
You flatter yourself.

1. "Who proceeds..." He is a person, not a thing. But that's irrelevant because the Vatican and the WRO say the Apostles Creed, which doesn't say anything more than the Nicene Creed originally said "....in the Holy Spirit." Get your facts straight.
2. ἐπιούσιον is found in grocery lists of the time.  The Aramaic reads "bread-our of-needs-our today."  Ancient Orthodox translations so read. The Aramaic word for debt also means trespass. The difference between evil and evil one is linguistic, not dogmatic (since you made this statement, I'm assuming you only speak English). Get your facts straight.
3. "Ave," "Hail," "Shlama,"χαῖρε" are all greetings (since you like to nit pick, Luke doesn't say "Virgin").  You got another Savior besides Jesus? We Orthodox don't.  "Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls" isn't in the Angelic salutation either.  "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death." Do tell us, what it heterodox about that? Are you Nestorian?  Millitant Iconoclast? Get your facts straight, and your beliefs.
4. O my Jesus
Forgive us ours sins,
save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.

Terrible thoughts for an Orthodox to pray. Roll Eyes

The Trisagion, the Prayer of the Hours, etc. were once new prayers.  The rosary in and of itself had no dogmatic innovations, except the crowing of Mary in Heaven. Given the number of times I have seen crowns on the Theotokos in icons, I'm not so sure that's terribly heterodox if understood correctly.  You make false accusations of heterodoxy.  Like I said, get your facts straight.

Isa this prayer . O my Jesus Forgive us ours sins,save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy isn't it from that mentally ill Polish Nun that came up with the divine mercy thing by a apparition of christ ,, thats celebrated the first saturday after Pascha as even a greater mercy than Pascha itself ....And Catholics fall for it lock stock and barrel....How can anything be more merciful than the feast of feasts,,, this the day the Lord Has Made Pascha...Than from some New Revalation from a Questionable Apparition that claims to be Jesus ...
God save us from these questionable  satanic Apparitions that are trying to infect Holy Orthodoxy Faith once delivered unto salvation....
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2010, 02:13:09 AM »

Dear Schulz,

The distortions in the Lord's prayer do not only occur om the English translations, I've seen this also in translations in other languages, such as french, spanish, and romanian. Their use is also widely spread among orthodox jurisdictions because instead of translating the Orthodox Prayer books, they simply  take from Roman Catholic sources.

As I pointed out, several ancient (i.e. pre-Nicea I) translation so translate, and the Latin translation comes when Rome was the paradigm of Orthodoxy.

Quote
Despite what appears in the bible version you mentioned, most Roman Catholics use the form I mentioned above. "Daily bread, Forgive us our trespasses as we also forgive those ,,,, deliver us from evil."


You mean English speaking ones, as Schultz pointed out.  The Latin translation, which would be official, dates from when Rome was the paradigm of Orthodoxy.

Quote
The problem I see in the catholic "Hail mary" is not merely the wording, but its intention, which is rooted on the erred roman catholic mariology, which presents Her as a sort of co-redemptress, and the way to Christ.

You are reading things into it. "Ave Maria," again, dates from when Rome was the paradigm of Orthdooxy.

Quote
To refer to Her son as simply Jesus is disrespectful, we never call our Lord like that.

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth" Phillippians 2:10

IIRC the rubrics in the Latin prayer books call for the head to bow at the mention of Jesus' name.

Quote
You are right, many of the the material tools are simple externals, however, the use of the chotki was an extra help given to us by an angel of God.

The Rosary is made up of material given us by God, i.e. scripture, the words of the angel sent from God's throne, etc.

Quote
Long time ago, there was a dessert dweller praying in solitude using stones, but a demon came and mixed the stones, to make him loose track, and he had to start all over again, he asked God from help, and suddenly an angel appeared to him, and taught him how to make a chotki, so that he could continue praying with no distraction. The way to make a chotki is a monastic secret, I can't tell you how to make one, but I can tell you each knott is formed by 9 crosses, and demons can not even touch it because of the power of the cross.

You make it sound like witchcraft.

Quote
There are canons that strictly forbid true orthodox christians to use such a heterodox set of prayers and meditations like the Rosary.

What canons would those be?  Many WRO pray the rosary.

Quote
Roman Catholicism is under several anathemas, and this means we true orthodox christians shun them, and reject every single thing from them.
Your Zarist Church took quite a lot from them pre-1917, ever since Zar Peter. Just look at the Churches your Zars built.

I'm curious: can you prove your "true Orthdoox Christianity" without damning someone else?  I'm trying to recall, but I don't seem to remember you ever saying anything positive.  You just chorttle on about how you are not like, well, everyone else.


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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2010, 02:33:01 AM »

Isa this prayer . O my Jesus Forgive us ours sins,save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy isn't it from that mentally ill Polish Nun that came up with the divine mercy thing by a apparition of christ

No, it from Fatima, my all time least favorite of their "apparitions."  As to Sr. Fautina, I can't comment on her mental state, as I have no interest to ferret fact from cult.

Quote
,, thats celebrated the first saturday after Pascha as even a greater mercy than Pascha itself

I don't know about that.  It just strikes me as one of their feast days, but I've never paid too much attention.

Quote
....And Catholics fall for it lock stock and barrel....How can anything be more merciful than the feast of feasts,,, this the day the Lord Has Made Pascha...Than from some New Revalation from a Questionable Apparition that claims to be Jesus ...
God save us from these questionable  satanic Apparitions that are trying to infect Holy Orthodoxy Faith once delivered unto salvation....
My issues about "apparitions" are well known.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,25108.45.html

We have plenty to criticize, we need not nit pick.
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2010, 03:47:26 AM »

Sometimes. I rather like it and learned to venerate the Mother of God by praying it. I've never meditated the mysteries in any specific way though.
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2010, 06:12:34 AM »

Rosary is a word that refers to a specific set of prayers and contemplations (reflections, meditations) created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century, as method of indoctrination, and the set of prayer beads as a didactic aid to keep track.

The set of prayers consist on the following:

1.- The catholic distortion of the creed, in the article about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father only. Catholics say otherwise.

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

3.- The doxology "Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amim" is sometimes accompanied by by an Oh my Jesus.

The contemplations are founded on the catholic interpretation of some acts in the in the life of the Most Holy Deipara, and Christ our King and saviour,  connected with catholic theological interpretations on specific virtues, which are called Mysteries. The Mysteries have changed in the course of time.

Pope John Paul II introduced 5 new catholic dogmatic interpretations (Mysteries) in 2002, as optional, bringing the number of mysteries in the rosary to 20.

Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed,

The Church can not accept dogmatical innovations nor distorted prayers, this is why as a true orthodox christian, I am forbidden to pray the rosary.
You flatter yourself.

1. "Who proceeds..." He is a person, not a thing. But that's irrelevant because the Vatican and the WRO say the Apostles Creed, which doesn't say anything more than the Nicene Creed originally said "....in the Holy Spirit." Get your facts straight.
2. ἐπιούσιον is found in grocery lists of the time.  The Aramaic reads "bread-our of-needs-our today."  Ancient Orthodox translations so read. The Aramaic word for debt also means trespass. The difference between evil and evil one is linguistic, not dogmatic (since you made this statement, I'm assuming you only speak English). Get your facts straight.
3. "Ave," "Hail," "Shlama,"χαῖρε" are all greetings (since you like to nit pick, Luke doesn't say "Virgin").  You got another Savior besides Jesus? We Orthodox don't.  "Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls" isn't in the Angelic salutation either.  "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death." Do tell us, what it heterodox about that? Are you Nestorian?  Millitant Iconoclast? Get your facts straight, and your beliefs.
4. O my Jesus
Forgive us ours sins,
save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.

Terrible thoughts for an Orthodox to pray. Roll Eyes

The Trisagion, the Prayer of the Hours, etc. were once new prayers.  The rosary in and of itself had no dogmatic innovations, except the crowing of Mary in Heaven. Given the number of times I have seen crowns on the Theotokos in icons, I'm not so sure that's terribly heterodox if understood correctly.  You make false accusations of heterodoxy.  Like I said, get your facts straight.

Isa this prayer . O my Jesus Forgive us ours sins,save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy isn't it from that mentally ill Polish Nun that came up with the divine mercy thing by a apparition of christ ,, thats celebrated the first saturday after Pascha as even a greater mercy than Pascha itself ....And Catholics fall for it lock stock and barrel....How can anything be more merciful than the feast of feasts,,, this the day the Lord Has Made Pascha...Than from some New Revalation from a Questionable Apparition that claims to be Jesus ...
God save us from these questionable  satanic Apparitions that are trying to infect Holy Orthodoxy Faith once delivered unto salvation....
Do you honestly have any idea what you're talking about? Huh  If not, you might want to make sure you do before you offer up such apparent rubbish as this.
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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2010, 09:34:06 AM »

Rosary is a word that refers to a specific set of prayers and contemplations (reflections, meditations) created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century, as method of indoctrination, and the set of prayer beads as a didactic aid to keep track.

The set of prayers consist on the following:

1.- The catholic distortion of the creed, in the article about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father only. Catholics say otherwise.

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

3.- The doxology "Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amim" is sometimes accompanied by by an Oh my Jesus.

The contemplations are founded on the catholic interpretation of some acts in the in the life of the Most Holy Deipara, and Christ our King and saviour,  connected with catholic theological interpretations on specific virtues, which are called Mysteries. The Mysteries have changed in the course of time.

Pope John Paul II introduced 5 new catholic dogmatic interpretations (Mysteries) in 2002, as optional, bringing the number of mysteries in the rosary to 20.

Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed,

The Church can not accept dogmatical innovations nor distorted prayers, this is why as a true orthodox christian, I am forbidden to pray the rosary.
You flatter yourself.

1. "Who proceeds..." He is a person, not a thing. But that's irrelevant because the Vatican and the WRO say the Apostles Creed, which doesn't say anything more than the Nicene Creed originally said "....in the Holy Spirit." Get your facts straight.
2. ἐπιούσιον is found in grocery lists of the time.  The Aramaic reads "bread-our of-needs-our today."  Ancient Orthodox translations so read. The Aramaic word for debt also means trespass. The difference between evil and evil one is linguistic, not dogmatic (since you made this statement, I'm assuming you only speak English). Get your facts straight.
3. "Ave," "Hail," "Shlama,"χαῖρε" are all greetings (since you like to nit pick, Luke doesn't say "Virgin").  You got another Savior besides Jesus? We Orthodox don't.  "Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls" isn't in the Angelic salutation either.  "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death." Do tell us, what it heterodox about that? Are you Nestorian?  Millitant Iconoclast? Get your facts straight, and your beliefs.
4. O my Jesus
Forgive us ours sins,
save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.

Terrible thoughts for an Orthodox to pray. Roll Eyes

The Trisagion, the Prayer of the Hours, etc. were once new prayers.  The rosary in and of itself had no dogmatic innovations, except the crowing of Mary in Heaven. Given the number of times I have seen crowns on the Theotokos in icons, I'm not so sure that's terribly heterodox if understood correctly.  You make false accusations of heterodoxy.  Like I said, get your facts straight.

Isa this prayer . O my Jesus Forgive us ours sins,save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy isn't it from that mentally ill Polish Nun that came up with the divine mercy thing by a apparition of christ ,, thats celebrated the first saturday after Pascha as even a greater mercy than Pascha itself ....And Catholics fall for it lock stock and barrel....How can anything be more merciful than the feast of feasts,,, this the day the Lord Has Made Pascha...Than from some New Revalation from a Questionable Apparition that claims to be Jesus ...
God save us from these questionable  satanic Apparitions that are trying to infect Holy Orthodoxy Faith once delivered unto salvation....
Do you honestly have any idea what you're talking about? Huh  If not, you might want to make sure you do before you offer up such apparent rubbish as this.
No, it has to be admitted that the rosary has had a lot of strange things attached to it, often in conection wtih "apparitions."  It has to be admitted that the devotees of Sister Faustina can be as cultish as Fatima.
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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2010, 10:31:31 AM »

The problem I see in the catholic "Hail mary" is not merely the wording, but its intention, which is rooted on the erred roman catholic mariology, which presents Her as a sort of co-redemptress, and the way to Christ. To refer to Her son as simply Jesus is disrespectful, we never call our Lord like that.


Perhaps you should tell that to the millions of Orthodox who pray the Canon to Our Sweetest Lord Jesus.  It is replete with the "mere" mention of the name of Jesus w/o qualifications such as "Lord" or "God".
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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2010, 10:35:19 AM »

Rosary is a word that refers to a specific set of prayers and contemplations (reflections, meditations) created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century, as method of indoctrination, and the set of prayer beads as a didactic aid to keep track.

The set of prayers consist on the following:

1.- The catholic distortion of the creed, in the article about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father only. Catholics say otherwise.

2.- The catholic distortion of the Lord's prayer, they ask for daily bread only instead of substantial bread i.e. everything we need both spiritually and in the material way, the forgiveness of trespasses, assuming they also forgive those who trespass against them, instead of the forgivenes of debts as we forgive our debtors, and the deliverance of evil, instead of deliverance from the evil one. This is done holding the larger bead.

3.- The catholic distortion of the angelic greeting to the Most Pure Deipara (Bogoroditche, Theotokos) in which they use the familiar "Hail Mary" instead of "Rejoice Virgin Mary", and "Blessed is the fruit of Thy Womb Jesus" instead of "Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, for Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls". And at the end, a prayer which is not found in the angelic salutaion is added as part of this prayer.

3.- The doxology "Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amim" is sometimes accompanied by by an Oh my Jesus.

The contemplations are founded on the catholic interpretation of some acts in the in the life of the Most Holy Deipara, and Christ our King and saviour,  connected with catholic theological interpretations on specific virtues, which are called Mysteries. The Mysteries have changed in the course of time.

Pope John Paul II introduced 5 new catholic dogmatic interpretations (Mysteries) in 2002, as optional, bringing the number of mysteries in the rosary to 20.

Just as the prayers and mysteries of the rosary have changed in the course of time, also the prayer beads have changed,

The Church can not accept dogmatical innovations nor distorted prayers, this is why as a true orthodox christian, I am forbidden to pray the rosary.
You flatter yourself.

1. "Who proceeds..." He is a person, not a thing. But that's irrelevant because the Vatican and the WRO say the Apostles Creed, which doesn't say anything more than the Nicene Creed originally said "....in the Holy Spirit." Get your facts straight.
2. ἐπιούσιον is found in grocery lists of the time.  The Aramaic reads "bread-our of-needs-our today."  Ancient Orthodox translations so read. The Aramaic word for debt also means trespass. The difference between evil and evil one is linguistic, not dogmatic (since you made this statement, I'm assuming you only speak English). Get your facts straight.
3. "Ave," "Hail," "Shlama,"χαῖρε" are all greetings (since you like to nit pick, Luke doesn't say "Virgin").  You got another Savior besides Jesus? We Orthodox don't.  "Thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our Souls" isn't in the Angelic salutation either.  "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death." Do tell us, what it heterodox about that? Are you Nestorian?  Millitant Iconoclast? Get your facts straight, and your beliefs.
4. O my Jesus
Forgive us ours sins,
save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.

Terrible thoughts for an Orthodox to pray. Roll Eyes

The Trisagion, the Prayer of the Hours, etc. were once new prayers.  The rosary in and of itself had no dogmatic innovations, except the crowing of Mary in Heaven. Given the number of times I have seen crowns on the Theotokos in icons, I'm not so sure that's terribly heterodox if understood correctly.  You make false accusations of heterodoxy.  Like I said, get your facts straight.

Isa this prayer . O my Jesus Forgive us ours sins,save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy isn't it from that mentally ill Polish Nun that came up with the divine mercy thing by a apparition of christ ,, thats celebrated the first saturday after Pascha as even a greater mercy than Pascha itself ....And Catholics fall for it lock stock and barrel....How can anything be more merciful than the feast of feasts,,, this the day the Lord Has Made Pascha...Than from some New Revalation from a Questionable Apparition that claims to be Jesus ...
God save us from these questionable  satanic Apparitions that are trying to infect Holy Orthodoxy Faith once delivered unto salvation....
Do you honestly have any idea what you're talking about? Huh  If not, you might want to make sure you do before you offer up such apparent rubbish as this.
No, it has to be admitted that the rosary has had a lot of strange things attached to it, often in conection wtih "apparitions."  It has to be admitted that the devotees of Sister Faustina can be as cultish as Fatima.

I think PtA may be referring to stashko's allegation that Divine Mercy Sunday is "celebrated as a greater mercy than Pascha itself".  As a Catholic who grew up Post Vatican II, I can say that I have certainly never experienced such a sentiment.

Granted, there are whackos who are, shall we say, over-devoted to certain saints and feasts, but they are the minority and are certainly in no authority to speak for Rome.

Once again, stashko has put the exception as the rule and created yet another Latin strawman for him to burn in effigy in the town square.
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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2010, 12:26:40 PM »

The problem I see in the catholic "Hail mary" is not merely the wording, but its intention, which is rooted on the erred roman catholic mariology, which presents Her as a sort of co-redemptress, and the way to Christ. To refer to Her son as simply Jesus is disrespectful, we never call our Lord like that.


Perhaps you should tell that to the millions of Orthodox who pray the Canon to Our Sweetest Lord Jesus.  It is replete with the "mere" mention of the name of Jesus w/o qualifications such as "Lord" or "God".
Yes, but are they TrueOrthdoox? LOL.
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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2010, 02:17:38 PM »

Heres the promises of the divine mercy...http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

This sounds to me like this is greater feast than Pascha it self....Like the True Christ Didn't do enough On Pascha for us ....
 

The Feast Of Mercy
  



  The New Plenary Indulgence      

During the course of Jesus' revelations to Saint Faustina on the Divine Mercy He asked on numerous occasions that a feast day be dedicated to the Divine Mercy and that this feast be celebrated on the Sunday after Easter. The liturgical texts of that day, the 2nd Sunday of Easter, concern the institution of the Sacrament of Penance, the Tribunal of the Divine Mercy, and are thus already suited to the request of Our Lord. This Feast, which had already been granted to the nation of Poland and been celebrated within Vatican City, was granted to the Universal Church by Pope John Paul II on the occasion of the canonization of Sr. Faustina on 30 April 2000. In a decree dated 23 May 2000, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments stated that "throughout the world the Second Sunday of Easter will receive the name Divine Mercy Sunday, a perennial invitation to the Christian world to face, with confidence in divine benevolence, the difficulties and trials that mankind will experience in the years to come." These papal acts represent the highest endorsement that the Church can give to a private revelation, an act of  papal infallibility proclaiming the certain sanctity of the mystic, and the granting of a universal feast, as requested by Our Lord to St. Faustina.

Concerning the Feast of Mercy Jesus said:

Whoever approaches the Fountain of Life on this day will be granted complete forgiveness of sins and punishment. (Diary 300)

I want the image solemnly blessed on the first Sunday after Easter, and I want it to be venerated publicly so that every soul may know about it. (Diary 341)

This Feast emerged from the very depths of My mercy, and it is confirmed in the vast depths of my tender mercies. (Diary 420)

On one occasion, I heard these words: My daughter, tell the whole world about My Inconceivable mercy. I desire that the Feast of Mercy be a refuge and shelter for all souls, and especially for poor sinners. On that day the very depths of My tender mercy are open. I pour out a whole ocean of graces upon those souls who approach the fount of My mercy. The soul that will go to Confession and receive Holy Communion shall obtain complete forgiveness of sins and punishment.* [our emphasis] On that day all the divine floodgates through which grace flow are opened. Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet. My mercy is so great that no mind, be it of man or of angel, will be able to fathom it throughout all eternity. Everything that exists has come forth from the very depths of My most tender mercy. Every soul in its relation to Me will I contemplate My love and mercy throughout eternity. The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness. It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter. Mankind will not have peace until it turns to the Fount of My Mercy. (Diary 699)

Yes, the first Sunday after Easter is the Feast of Mercy, but there must also be deeds of mercy, which are to arise out of love for Me. You are to show mercy to our neighbors always and everywhere. You must not shrink from this or try to absolve yourself from it. (Diary 742)

I want to grant complete pardon to the souls that will go to Confession and receive Holy Communion on the Feast of My mercy. (Diary 1109)

As you can see the Lord's desire for the Feast includes the solemn, public  veneration of the Image of Divine Mercy by the Church, as well as personal acts of veneration and mercy. The great promise for the individual soul is that a devotional act of sacramental penance and Communion will obtain for that soul the plenitude of the divine mercy on the Feast.

*The Cardinal of Krakow, Cardinal Macharski, whose diocese is the center of the spread of the devotion and the sponsor of the Cause of Sr. Faustina, has written that we should use Lent as preparation for the Feast and confess even before Holy Week! So, it is clear that the confessional requirement does not have to be met on the Feast itself. That would be an impossible burden for the clergy if it did. The Communion requirement is easily met that day, however, since it is a day of obligation, being Sunday. We would only need confession again, if received earlier in Lenten or Easter Season, if we were in the state of mortal sin on the Feast.
 
  
  1. Begin with the Sign of the Cross, 1 Our Father, 1 Hail Mary and The Apostles Creed.
2. Then on the Our Father Beads say the following:
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.

3. On the 10 Hail Mary Beads say the following:
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

(Repeat step 2 and 3 for all five decades).

4. Conclude with (three times):
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

 
 
 
  In 1933, God gave Sister Faustina a striking vision of His Mercy,
Sister tells us:
"I saw a great light, with God the Father in the midst of it.
Between this light and the earth I saw Jesus nailed to the Cross
and in such a way that God, wanting to look upon the earth, had to
look through Our Lord's wounds and I understood that God blessed
the earth for the sake of Jesus."

Of another vision on Sept. 13, 1935, she writes:

"I saw an Angel, the executor of God's wrath... about to strike
the earth...I began to beg God earnestly for the world with words
which I heard interiorly. As I prayed in this way, I saw the
Angel's helplessness, and he could not carry out the just
punishment...."

The following day an inner voice taught her to say this prayer on
ordinary rosary beads:

"First say one 'Our Father', 'Hail Mary', and 'I believe'. Then on
the large beads say the following words:

'Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity
of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement
for our sins and those of the whole world.'

On the smaller beads you are to say the following words:

'For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the
whole world.'

In conclusion you are to say these words three times:

'Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us
and on the whole world'.

Jesus said later to Sister Faustina:

"Say unceasingly this chaplet that I have taught you. Anyone who
says it will receive great Mercy at the hour of death. Priests
will recommend it to sinners as the last hope. Even the most
hardened sinner, if he recites this Chaplet even once, will
receive grace from My Infinite Mercy. I want the whole world to
know My Infinite Mercy. I want to give unimaginable graces to
those who trust in My Mercy...."

"....When they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I
will stand between My Father and the dying person not as the just
judge but as the Merciful Savior".
 

  
 
 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 02:25:02 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2010, 02:21:15 PM »

The rosary is a Roman Catholic practice, we, True Orthodox Christians don't have it.

You mean St. Seraphim of Sarov wasn't a "true" Orthodox? Interesting.
Typical.

No, we mean that he didn't participate in Roman Catholic practices; only Orthodox ones.
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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2010, 02:47:11 PM »

Older versions of the Lord's Prayer in English trace back to Cramner's version, which uses "trespasses", not "debts"; I don't know where the latter version comes from, but in any case the ICET version says "sins" and also says "save us from the time of trial" instead of "lead us not into temptation". I don't know whether the Orthodox had any participation in formulation of the ICET version, but in any case it is accepted (if not loved) by most everyone but the teeth-gritting radical Protestants.

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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2010, 04:18:25 PM »

Hs anybody posted the form of the Rosary as taught by Saint Seraphim of Sarov?



He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:

First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.

Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.

Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God—let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.

Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.

Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.

Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: «Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also» (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.

Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.

Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.

Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: «They have no wine» (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.

Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.

Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.

Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.

Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: «Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me» (Psalm 51).

Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.

Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.

http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary.html
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« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2010, 04:20:48 PM »

Yes, I did in my OP. Wink
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« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2010, 04:28:25 PM »

stashko,

I know the story of the Divine Mercy chaplet/feast.  I can certainly see the problems Orthodoxy can have with such a feast.

I, however, defy you to find one Catholic who says that that Sunday is more important than Easter Sunday. 

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« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2010, 09:40:58 PM »

I rarely prayed it when I was Roman Catholic, even though I knew I should have since it is basically the cornerstone of the Catholic prayer life. As an Orthodox Christian, I feel like I have other superior devotions available to me. (Not that the rosary is bad per se, but it never "clicked" with me.)
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