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Author Topic: What translation of the Holy Bible do/did you use?  (Read 7300 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: January 01, 2010, 05:44:23 AM »

what translation was most commen among Eastern Orthodox Christians before the Eastern Orthodox Study bible came out?
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 11:03:06 AM »

what translation was most commen among Eastern Orthodox Christians before the Eastern Orthodox Study bible came out?

KJV & NKJV, and to a lesser extent the RSV.
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 01:21:18 PM »

I still don't own a copy of the OSB Wink For me it's usually the KJV--my trusty Thompson chain-reference Bible--though I will consult other versions from time to time just to get a different perspective (NIV, NAB for deuterocanonicals, etc.)  If I think that a passage might differ in the Septuagint version, I just Google for it.
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 01:36:53 PM »

I have a question for you all.  Has anyone come across this translation of the NT? Also, if anyone owns it, one commentor said that it was heavily annoted, although I can't find anything about that in the description. Is this true?

http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 01:50:17 PM »

I have a question for you all.  Has anyone come across this translation of the NT? Also, if anyone owns it, one commentor said that it was heavily annoted, although I can't find anything about that in the description. Is this true?

http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Yes I've heard of this one. I've heard complaints that the translation is too literal and eccentric so it makes for rather cringeworthy reading. Though this doesn't bother everyone and it is very accurate. It's great for indepth study but not great for hearing it read in Church.

Deciding on a Bible transaltion largely depends on what you're going to use it for.
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 08:16:10 PM »

I have a question for you all.  Has anyone come across this translation of the NT? Also, if anyone owns it, one commentor said that it was heavily annoted, although I can't find anything about that in the description. Is this true?

http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Yes I've heard of this one. I've heard complaints that the translation is too literal and eccentric so it makes for rather cringeworthy reading. Though this doesn't bother everyone and it is very accurate. It's great for indepth study but not great for hearing it read in Church.


Personally, I think it's a horrible translation to read, light on natural language flow and heavy on eccentric literalness; though perhaps the notes are worthwhile.

As an aside, is it true that the group that published it is schismatic?
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 08:28:29 PM »

I have a question for you all.  Has anyone come across this translation of the NT? Also, if anyone owns it, one commentor said that it was heavily annoted, although I can't find anything about that in the description. Is this true?

http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Yes I've heard of this one. I've heard complaints that the translation is too literal and eccentric so it makes for rather cringeworthy reading. Though this doesn't bother everyone and it is very accurate. It's great for indepth study but not great for hearing it read in Church.


Personally, I think it's a horrible translation to read, light on natural language flow and heavy on eccentric literalness; though perhaps the notes are worthwhile.

As an aside, is it true that the group that published it is schismatic?

Greek Old Calendarist.
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 08:36:32 PM »

I have a question for you all.  Has anyone come across this translation of the NT? Also, if anyone owns it, one commentor said that it was heavily annoted, although I can't find anything about that in the description. Is this true?

http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Yes I've heard of this one. I've heard complaints that the translation is too literal and eccentric so it makes for rather cringeworthy reading. Though this doesn't bother everyone and it is very accurate. It's great for indepth study but not great for hearing it read in Church.


Personally, I think it's a horrible translation to read, light on natural language flow and heavy on eccentric literalness; though perhaps the notes are worthwhile.

As an aside, is it true that the group that published it is schismatic?

Greek Old Calendarist.

That's a schismatic group?
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 08:42:59 PM »

I own several bibles. I have the OSB but I am reluctant to use it much; I don't like the KJV and the footnotes and commentaries seem heavily underpinned with Biblical-literalist Protestant theological undertones. I prefer the New Jerusalem Bible, which has some excellent historical-critical/analytical commentary. I also read the New Translation of the English Septuagint.
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 08:45:50 PM »

That's a schismatic group?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Old_Calendarists
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2010, 08:52:01 PM »

I own several bibles. I have the OSB but I am reluctant to use it much; I don't like the KJV and the footnotes and commentaries seem heavily underpinned with Biblical-literalist Protestant theological undertones. I prefer the New Jerusalem Bible, which has some excellent historical-critical/analytical commentary. I also read the New Translation of the English Septuagint.

I have copies of the KJV (Cambridge), the NASB (with commentary) the NLT (with commentary) the ESV (NT), the RSV (Apocrypha), TLB (The Living Bible), the NIV, and the ALT (Analytical-literal Translation of the New Testament). I'm probably missing one. Most are left over from my protestant days.
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2010, 09:20:55 PM »

That's a schismatic group?

Depends on who you ask.
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2010, 09:25:19 PM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2010, 09:55:38 PM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

The OSB is only missing one Maccabbees, the Fourth. A big objection on my part (I'd rather fond of the book), but can't complain too much, as many Orthodox Bibles in Orthodox countries (e.g. Romania) lack it too.
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2010, 10:00:33 PM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

Ditto on all points, except that I like the NKJV.  I do, however, wish for an Orthodox Bible with all the books and without the commentary.
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2010, 10:06:03 PM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

Ditto on all points, except that I like the NKJV.  I do, however, wish for an Orthodox Bible with all the books and without the commentary.

I much prefer the NKJV to the KJV with all the thees and thous and archaic terminology. Elizabethan/Jacobean English is great when enjoying Shakespeare, but I think more easily understood English is better, especially when encouraging young people to read the Bible. However, don't the comments in the OSB help to understand an Orthodox pov, especially for converts?
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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2010, 10:07:11 PM »

Greek Old Calendarist.

It's probably be more accurate just to call them old calendarist. I mean, the leader of the group was Antiochian, then Greek, then Russian, and now I'm not sure what he is (except for being the Archbishop of a handful of parishes in America, and quite a few more people he is duping in other countries).

As for the Bible in question, we used to own it, and I would agree with Riddikulus about the translation... the saving grace of it is that they include patristic quotes for the passages, but that's not enough to justify buying it IMO.
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2010, 11:48:18 PM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

The OSB is only missing one Maccabbees, the Fourth. A big objection on my part (I'd rather fond of the book), but can't complain too much, as many Orthodox Bibles in Orthodox countries (e.g. Romania) lack it too.

Ah, yes your right.
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010, 12:18:32 AM »

Greek Old Calendarist.

It's probably be more accurate just to call them old calendarist. I mean, the leader of the group was Antiochian, then Greek, then Russian, and now I'm not sure what he is (except for being the Archbishop of a handful of parishes in America, and quite a few more people he is duping in other countries).



I didn't know they had a monastery in the states. Interesting. Hey, maybe they have a legitimate claim.  I don't have an option, so I stick with the "new calendarists" Cheesy
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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2010, 01:00:57 AM »


I much prefer the NKJV to the KJV with all the thees and thous and archaic terminology. Elizabethan/Jacobean English is great when enjoying Shakespeare, but I think more easily understood English is better, especially when encouraging young people to read the Bible. However, don't the comments in the OSB help to understand an Orthodox pov, especially for converts?

Very good question.  For me, it is a matter of preference.  I am quite used to Commentaries, and prefer a more in depth discussion over the snippets in the bottom of a "Study Bible".  I am not sure that one could really call the snippets an "Orthodox" point of view, since two thousand years of history have left several points of view on many subjects.  The OSB is representative of the SCOBA point of view, and seems to me to have more in common with modern Protestant textual criticism (the subject of a former thread) than the strictly traditional view of what I normally read.  This is simply my opinion and a comment as to why I do not feel the need for the commentary contained in the OSB and would like a copy of just the Biblical text.  However, your last statement finds me very much in agreement.  The same things that I do not like about the commentary of the OSB would, however, make it VERY useful for a person seeking a bridge between Protestantism and Orthodoxy.  Probably as much use for a seeker as a convert.  I believe that there is also some use for the OSB since the average convert (or Orthodox Christian for that matter) probably does not have a history of extensive comparative reading of Protestant, Latin, and Patristic commentaries of the Scriptures.  When I run into a question regarding the meaning of a passage in the Scriptures, I usually look at as many patristic writings as I can to get an idea of the consensus of the Church on the matter (if, indeed, there is one).  Not everyone may have the luxury of having a library of these at home, or the desire to search the writings out for themselves (I was shocked to find that many Orthodox Churches do not have much of a library, and the Priest may or may not have a collection himself.  Quite the opposite of my experience in the Lutheran Church).  This could make a "Study Bible" useful, so I am not against the OSB.  Again, it is a matter of preference on my part.
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2010, 02:28:24 AM »

I started with the New International Version as a teenager, which I still find to be a wonderful translation by faithful Christians, even if it is based on the Eclectic Text.  

For a while I was all about the New Revised Standard Version, but then I figured out that it comes from the hands of cancerous, spiritually dead critics of Christ.  Also, all of the poetry and beauty is lost for the sake of a literal rendition that points away from an "imposed" Trinitarianism.

These days I am using the Orthodox Study Bible, so basically the New King James Version.  

It's nice.

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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2010, 12:53:49 AM »

I started with the New International Version as a teenager, which I still find to be a wonderful translation by faithful Christians, even if it is based on the Eclectic Text.  

For a while I was all about the New Revised Standard Version, but then I figured out that it comes from the hands of cancerous, spiritually dead critics of Christ.  Also, all of the poetry and beauty is lost for the sake of a literal rendition that points away from an "imposed" Trinitarianism.

These days I am using the Orthodox Study Bible, so basically the New King James Version.  

It's nice.



this has nothing to do with the topic but where did you get that wondeful picture?  or, rather, where is it from?   Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 08:10:25 PM »

what translation was most commen among Eastern Orthodox Christians before the Eastern Orthodox Study bible came out?

KJV & NKJV, and to a lesser extent the RSV.
I know this is slightly off topic, but was the KJV ever published with the complete deuterocanon?
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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2010, 08:35:45 PM »

what translation was most commen among Eastern Orthodox Christians before the Eastern Orthodox Study bible came out?

KJV & NKJV, and to a lesser extent the RSV.
I know this is slightly off topic, but was the KJV ever published with the complete deuterocanon?

To my the best of knowledge it was published in it's present form with a third section between the OT and the NT for the OT books that Protestants didn't recognize as inspired. This middle section labeled "apocrypha" was excluded by most publishers later on but was originally in a section seperate from the rest of the OT. If you do a search, you can find publishers that still sell the "1611 KJV with Apocrypha". You can also find an online version at www.htmlbible.com.
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« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2010, 09:04:49 PM »

what translation was most commen among Eastern Orthodox Christians before the Eastern Orthodox Study bible came out?

KJV & NKJV, and to a lesser extent the RSV.
I know this is slightly off topic, but was the KJV ever published with the complete deuterocanon?

To my the best of knowledge it was published in it's present form with a third section between the OT and the NT for the OT books that Protestants didn't recognize as inspired. This middle section labeled "apocrypha" was excluded by most publishers later on but was originally in a section seperate from the rest of the OT. If you do a search, you can find publishers that still sell the "1611 KJV with Apocrypha". You can also find an online version at www.htmlbible.com.
As far as I can tell, it doesn't contain the 151st Psalm or the later books of Maccabees.
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2010, 09:44:19 PM »

what translation was most commen among Eastern Orthodox Christians before the Eastern Orthodox Study bible came out?

KJV & NKJV, and to a lesser extent the RSV.
I know this is slightly off topic, but was the KJV ever published with the complete deuterocanon?

To my the best of knowledge it was published in it's present form with a third section between the OT and the NT for the OT books that Protestants didn't recognize as inspired. This middle section labeled "apocrypha" was excluded by most publishers later on but was originally in a section seperate from the rest of the OT. If you do a search, you can find publishers that still sell the "1611 KJV with Apocrypha". You can also find an online version at www.htmlbible.com.
As far as I can tell, it doesn't contain the 151st Psalm or the later books of Maccabees.

I think that might have something to do with the Vulgate translation which did not include Psalm 151, 3rd or 4th Maccabees, had Jeremiah in the same order as the Masoretic Text and not the LXX order. The Vulgate was the official and most widely used translation in western Europe at that time so the translators were probably most familiar with that canon. They were probably trying to conform the OT to the Masoretic Text while setting aside the "extras" that everyone was familiar with. In Luther's quest to "restore the Scriptures corrupted by Rome" to what the Jews had "preserved", I don't think he was conerned about what had actually been faithfully preserved within Christianity. It was more about "getting rid of extra stuff" than it was about building a complete collection of what Christians had always recognized as Scripture and preserved.
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2010, 07:11:15 PM »



A reasonably understandable bible is the 'Third Millenium Bible' its also a complete Bible.
Its a bible that is for true believing Orthodox Christians, because it includes the Apocrypha.
http://www.tmbible.com/
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 04:26:47 AM »

I enjoy my old Douay-Rheims Bible, despite Bishop Challoner's occasional footnote promoting purgatory or papal infallibility, and its over-reliance on the Vulgate as opposed to other ancient sources. When I'm confused on a phrase's meaning, I usually go for the OSB.
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 06:45:28 AM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

Ditto on all points, except that I like the NKJV.  I do, however, wish for an Orthodox Bible with all the books and without the commentary.

I much prefer the NKJV to the KJV with all the thees and thous and archaic terminology. Elizabethan/Jacobean English is great when enjoying Shakespeare, but I think more easily understood English is better, especially when encouraging young people to read the Bible. However, don't the comments in the OSB help to understand an Orthodox pov, especially for converts?

Don't you Greeks use the original Septuagint? (wish, I was born Greek) BTW.. I like NKJV -- old-style but not too old-style.  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 06:46:22 AM »

I enjoy my old Douay-Rheims Bible, despite Bishop Challoner's occasional footnote promoting purgatory or papal infallibility, and its over-reliance on the Vulgate as opposed to other ancient sources. When I'm confused on a phrase's meaning, I usually go for the OSB.

Douay-Rheims is a Catholic Bible? I thought it was Protestant!
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2010, 09:48:51 AM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

Ditto on all points, except that I like the NKJV.  I do, however, wish for an Orthodox Bible with all the books and without the commentary.

I much prefer the NKJV to the KJV with all the thees and thous and archaic terminology. Elizabethan/Jacobean English is great when enjoying Shakespeare, but I think more easily understood English is better, especially when encouraging young people to read the Bible. However, don't the comments in the OSB help to understand an Orthodox pov, especially for converts?

Don't you Greeks use the original Septuagint? (wish, I was born Greek) BTW.. I like NKJV -- old-style but not too old-style.  Grin

The Greek of the LXX and NT is quite different from modern Greek, so even modern Greek speakers need translations in their own vernacular.
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2010, 10:08:40 AM »

Douay-Rheims is a Catholic Bible? I thought it was Protestant!

I still find myself using the Confraternity update of the Challoner-Rheims NT. Trivial note: the Douay-Rheims Psalms is based on the Gallican Psalter, St. Jerome's translation of the LXX Psalms. It is, in effect, the oldest known English translation of the Septuagint Psalms (by way of Latin).
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2010, 10:33:28 AM »

Regarding the question about a complete KJV, I don't know about that, but there is an RSV Common Bible that includes the entire OT Cannon, including the appendix texts found solely in the Russian Canon. I believe it is used in the Oxford Annotated RSV, which is still available.

Personally, I am using the Orthodox New Testament in conjunction with the RSV Catholic edition and the New English Translation of the Septuagint while awaiting the Fathers of Holy Transfiguration to complete their work on the Old Testament.
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2010, 05:09:56 PM »

I enjoy my old Douay-Rheims Bible, despite Bishop Challoner's occasional footnote promoting purgatory or papal infallibility, and its over-reliance on the Vulgate as opposed to other ancient sources. When I'm confused on a phrase's meaning, I usually go for the OSB.

Douay-Rheims is a Catholic Bible? I thought it was Protestant!

Nope! Its the first Roman Catholic English bible, which was originally a direct (and rather poor) translation of Bl. Jerome's Vulgate. Bishop Richard Challoner heavily revised it in 1742 and basically copied a good chunk of the 1611 KJV in doing so (subsequent revisions of the KJV, in turn, borrowed heavily from the DRV).
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« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2010, 08:21:45 PM »


As for the Bible in question, (http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) we used to own it, and I would agree with Riddikulus about the translation... the saving grace of it is that they include patristic quotes for the passages, but that's not enough to justify buying it IMO.

 I own both volumes, 1 & 2, and tend to agree with you and Riddikulus regarding the translation in that it doesn't have 'flow'.  The saving grace, as you put it, the patristic quotes for the passages, IMO is a good reason to own it.  Often times I won't understand a certain text and I want additional notes than the OSB provides.  What to do?  Well, I now have a wonderful Patristic reference bible.
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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2010, 03:13:47 AM »

I actually like the Orthodox New Testament since it is a more literal translation. I do like the Douay Rheims Bible and I also have the Brenton translation of the Septuagint. I'm not the biggest fan of the OSB since its NKJV and I don't really like the whole "study Bible" thing. I wish someone would just release a full Bible with all the books in it (including the other two Maccabees that were left out of the OSB) and with a more KJV like translation and without the footnotes and all that.

Ditto on all points, except that I like the NKJV.  I do, however, wish for an Orthodox Bible with all the books and without the commentary.

I much prefer the NKJV to the KJV with all the thees and thous and archaic terminology. Elizabethan/Jacobean English is great when enjoying Shakespeare, but I think more easily understood English is better, especially when encouraging young people to read the Bible. However, don't the comments in the OSB help to understand an Orthodox pov, especially for converts?

Don't you Greeks use the original Septuagint? (wish, I was born Greek) BTW.. I like NKJV -- old-style but not too old-style.  Grin

The Greek of the LXX and NT is quite different from modern Greek, so even modern Greek speakers need translations in their own vernacular.


That's interesting. Our Filipino dialect also has an 'old style' and we can't understand most of it.
Is Koine Greek is substantially different to Modern Greek?
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« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2010, 03:15:18 AM »

I enjoy my old Douay-Rheims Bible, despite Bishop Challoner's occasional footnote promoting purgatory or papal infallibility, and its over-reliance on the Vulgate as opposed to other ancient sources. When I'm confused on a phrase's meaning, I usually go for the OSB.

Douay-Rheims is a Catholic Bible? I thought it was Protestant!

Nope! Its the first Roman Catholic English bible, which was originally a direct (and rather poor) translation of Bl. Jerome's Vulgate. Bishop Richard Challoner heavily revised it in 1742 and basically copied a good chunk of the 1611 KJV in doing so (subsequent revisions of the KJV, in turn, borrowed heavily from the DRV).

Wow! That's amazing. I thought Douay and Rheims were Protestants (LOL). When was this Bible made?
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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2010, 03:50:21 AM »

The Douay was crafted in exile in France. At the time Catholicism was still outlawed in England. The translators of the KJV never saw the Old Testament version, but it is generally acknowledged (after the fact) that it was one of the older versions consulted (along with Tyndale, the Bishop's Bible, etc...) when they were translating the New Testament and an influence on the text. (The Tyndale influence appears the strongest). The English of the original Douay (which you can find online) was very "Latin" and formal-equivalent to the Vulgate. Bishop Challoner came along and made many changes to the text, largely grammatical in the direction of the KJV.

As a translation, it has its closest parallels to the KJV, although the names in the OT conform to the LXX used in the Vulgate - Nabuchodonosor and Noe for example. The textual base of the Vulgate (the Gallican Psalter aside) is similar to what the KJV translators used, which are Hebrew, not Greek, in the OT "proto" canonicals, and a Western-Text/Majority-Text hybrid in the NT. The Challoner version of the text is unique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douay-Rheims_Bible
http://bible-researcher.com/romcath.html

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« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2010, 08:08:36 AM »

Don't you Greeks use the original Septuagint?
Riddikulus is not Greek.
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« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 11:06:48 AM »

RSV, ESV, Douay-Rheims, OSB.
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 03:20:43 PM »

That's interesting. Our Filipino dialect also has an 'old style' and we can't understand most of it.
Is Koine Greek is substantially different to Modern Greek?

Yes, which is why most of them don't understand most of their liturgy, as it is in an archaic form of Greek which is unintelligible to the masses.
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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 06:15:30 PM »

That's interesting. Our Filipino dialect also has an 'old style' and we can't understand most of it.
Is Koine Greek is substantially different to Modern Greek?

Yes, which is why most of them don't understand most of their liturgy, as it is in an archaic form of Greek which is unintelligible to the masses.

I've heard different opinions from different Greeks. Some say, yes, it is hard to understand, but others say that only lazy Greeks complain about Koine and it can be understood by the average Greek-speaker with a little effort.

As for early modern English, I think it's ridiculous to treat it as an archaic tongue- it really isn't that different from what we speak today. People who can't get past "thou" and "thee" must have been sleeping through the grade school lessons on subjective/objective pronouns.
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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 07:08:10 PM »

As for early modern English, I think it's ridiculous to treat it as an archaic tongue- it really isn't that different from what we speak today. People who can't get past "thou" and "thee" must have been sleeping through the grade school lessons on subjective/objective pronouns.

There are people at my parish who can barely write a full sentence, let alone deal with archaic or even advanced language. I'm not arguing for a "street-slang liturgy" or anything, but just letting you know that many people at my parish honestly are unfamiliar with plenty of the words in the services.  Of course the English service books in the Serbian diocese might be a bit more abstruse than whatever the OCA uses.

As an aside, I don't like how the OCA uses the informal "you" in reference to the Mother of God. It seems almost like a Protestant denigration of sorts.
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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2010, 07:11:03 PM »


As an aside, I don't like how the OCA uses the informal "you" in reference to the Mother of God. It seems almost like a Protestant denigration of sorts.

That makes two of us, brother.  Smiley 

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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2010, 07:16:26 PM »

Quote
s an aside, I don't like how the OCA uses the informal "you" in reference to the Mother of God. It seems almost like a Protestant denigration of sorts.

But "thou" would be the informal, since it's the second person singular pronoun; all european languages reserve the plural second person as the polite form of addressing somebody . That, in English would be "you", or no? It's just that the polite plural form became general and displaced the familiar, singular "thou", "thee".
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