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Author Topic: Old Orthodox prayer book vs. The Jordanville Orthodox Prayer book  (Read 6037 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: December 31, 2009, 09:18:27 PM »

I am new to Orthodoxy and want to invest in a prayer book that will help me start a daily prayer rule and follow along during liturgy on sundays.  What would be the best prayer book?  first of all, I worry about the translation.  I go to a Russian/Serbian Orthodox church, not an Antiochan (hope I spelled that right!) Orthodox church.  my priest said the liturgies differ slightly.  Which has the liturgy I want? 
Which is the best overall for me?
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 10:01:57 PM »

I am new to Orthodoxy and want to invest in a prayer book that will help me start a daily prayer rule and follow along during liturgy on sundays.  What would be the best prayer book?  first of all, I worry about the translation.  I go to a Russian/Serbian Orthodox church, not an Antiochan (hope I spelled that right!) Orthodox church.  my priest said the liturgies differ slightly.  Which has the liturgy I want? 
Which is the best overall for me?

Both the Jordanville and Old Rite prayer books are from the Russian tradition, so you won't find Greek-Arab usage in either one. I'm quite fond of the Old Rite prayer book, but it follows the rite of the Old Believers, and it therefore differs from modern Slavic practice here and there. Nothing major though.
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 12:52:12 AM »

The Jordanville Prayerbook enjoys universal use among both native Russians in the States and in Russia and, in its English translation, converts to the Russian tradition.

The Jordanville Prayerbook it dates from Russian practice before the Revolution and it is "standard issue" for all Russian parishioners both in Russia and in the West.   After the fall of Communism, the Church of Russia simply uplifted the Russian Jordanville Prayerbook and started printing millions of copies for the faithful in Russia.  It has become the standard Prayerbook in Russia.

So, I would recommend it.  It places you in spiritual contact with millions of Orthodox who are using the exact same prayers.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 12:52:35 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 03:09:40 AM »

I prefer the Old Orthodox Prayer Book, and it is the one that I use.  However, Irish Hermit is correct in his discussion of the Jordanville Prayer Book.  It matches the Liturgy used in the ROCOR, and the prayers are the standard for ROCOR.

If you are attending a Serbian Church, they also have a prayer book, of which I have a copy.  It is somewhat different than either the Old Orthodox Prayer book or the Jordanville, but it is also quite usable and well laid out.  Personally, I would speak to the Priest for the Church you are attending and ask his opinion.  It can be useful if the words of you private worship correspond to the words of your corporate worship.  But that is just my opinion and suggestion (which I don't follow myself).
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 03:19:56 AM »

well, acually a few hours ago I bought the old Orthodox prayer book on Amazon.  there is a sample on http://marketplaceadvisor.channeladvisor.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.aspx?sfid=78319&i=242420238&mpid=2031&dfid=1 of the font layout and text.  it will help me further my research on the Slavonic language.  I am confident that this will be what I need.  I have seen my godfather carrying this and reading it at liturgy.
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 03:24:35 AM »

Trevor,

Another point to bring out is that you are not obliged to read ALL of the prayers set out for mornings and evenings.  Some people cannot manage the morning ones very well because of the rush of getting off to work, etc. 

If you go to work by car or train one nifty way is to buy the CD with "Morning and Evening Prayers according to the Jordanville Prayerbook" read by the ROCA priest Fr Victor Potapov in English.  www.stjohndc.org   Don't feel this is cheating because in monasteries it is not uncommon for the Elders have these prayers read to them in their cells by their cell attendants.

Another point is that when it comes to reading the Prayers before Holy Communion, while it is best if you read them all, it is allowable to reduce them to 3 prayers if you have a reason for not being able to read through the whole lot.
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 03:27:23 AM »

I have a question about that.  are prayers before communion sung by the choir or does each christian say them before going up?
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 03:30:17 AM »

The first three messages in this thread are worth a read...

Getting started with a daily prayer rule

Helpful Information for
Keeping a Prayer Rule

By St. Theophan the Recluse

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19499.0.html
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 03:32:46 AM »

I have a question about that.  are prayers before communion sung by the choir or does each christian say them before going up?

They are read, in part, in some parishes and in many parishes the Prayers After Communion are read right after Liturgy finishes.

Personally, I recommend reading them at home.  It is so much more peaceful and you can concentrate on the prayers, enfolding your soul in their words.
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 03:33:22 AM »

this is very interesting and helpful, thanks much!
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 03:11:37 AM »

The Jordanville Prayerbook enjoys universal use among both native Russians in the States and in Russia and, in its English translation, converts to the Russian tradition.

What about the "Mother-of-God" version you mentioned in another thread?  Can you provide a link for purchase of this version?
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2010, 07:15:50 AM »

The Jordanville Prayerbook enjoys universal use among both native Russians in the States and in Russia and, in its English translation, converts to the Russian tradition.

What about the "Mother-of-God" version you mentioned in another thread?  Can you provide a link for purchase of this version?

Dear Alveus,

Information is in this thread

Original Jordanville Prayer Book back in Print

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5531.0.html

« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 07:17:10 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2010, 10:36:26 AM »

The "Old Jordanville" Prayer Book can also be purchased at:

St. John of Kronstadt Press
www.sjkp.org
Item# 3216. (DC: R) Hard-bound. $27.50
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2010, 03:26:33 PM »

i have the old rite prayerbook but actually i prefer the jordanville or the ukrainian orthodox usa molitobnik/prayerbook from south boundbrook.
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2010, 11:05:52 PM »

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum.

I generally use the Jordanville book, but one of the things I liked about the Old Orthodox Prayer Book was its inclusion of some different prayers. For instance, the beautiful Akathist Canon which is said before the Akathist Hymn itself.
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2010, 11:40:54 PM »

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum.

Welcome!
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 12:59:48 AM »

I prefer the Old Orthodox Prayer Book, and it is the one that I use.  However, Irish Hermit is correct in his discussion of the Jordanville Prayer Book.  It matches the Liturgy used in the ROCOR, and the prayers are the standard for ROCOR.

If you are attending a Serbian Church, they also have a prayer book, of which I have a copy.  It is somewhat different than either the Old Orthodox Prayer book or the Jordanville, but it is also quite usable and well laid out.  Personally, I would speak to the Priest for the Church you are attending and ask his opinion.  It can be useful if the words of you private worship correspond to the words of your corporate worship.  But that is just my opinion and suggestion (which I don't follow myself).

I agree with Punch. The Old Orthodox Prayer Book is my main prayer book, with some supplemental stuff from Jordanville (both English and Slavonic). I'd like to put in a little plug for the Jordanville Slavonic prayer book. It's very easy on the pocketbook and very well made--better than the English-language version. I think it costs about $15., and it is definitely worth the price. Even if your Slavonic is pretty rudimentary, like mine is.
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 01:10:01 AM »

It's very easy on the pocketbook and very well made--better than the English-language version.

What makes you say that the quality is better? In what ways is it different?
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 04:49:16 AM »

It's very easy on the pocketbook and very well made--better than the English-language version.

What makes you say that the quality is better? In what ways is it different?

The English version doesn't have icons. The Slavonic edition is two-color, as well. It's a nice book-- a very nice book for the price.
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 10:11:14 AM »


The English version doesn't have icons. The Slavonic edition is two-color, as well.


I have the 1960 version of the English Prayerbook and decades ago I glued in coloured icons.  They have been there for 45 years and have caused no damage to the book.

I also went through and filled in the line decorations with green and orange pens - hey I'm Irish, of course it's going to be green and orange.   The colours are still bright and have not run nor gone through the page.

Well, I guess that is a useless piece of information -- except for the homecrafters.   laugh laugh
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 12:07:14 PM »


The English version doesn't have icons. The Slavonic edition is two-color, as well.


I have the 1960 version of the English Prayerbook and decades ago I glued in coloured icons.  They have been there for 45 years and have caused no damage to the book.

I also went through and filled in the line decorations with green and orange pens - hey I'm Irish, of course it's going to be green and orange.   The colours are still bright and have not run nor gone through the page.

Well, I guess that is a useless piece of information -- except for the homecrafters.   laugh laugh

Not useless at all!  It is interesting how you made this prayer book uniquely your own.  Excellent idea.
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2010, 01:33:49 PM »

I've been thinking about this a little more. I think Jordanville (or something similar, like the HTM prayer book) might be more useful for someone new to Orthodoxy. One book that is truly useful, although not as portable, is the Liturgikon published by the Antiochian Archdiocese. If I were only going to get one book for all my liturgical needs, as it were, that would probably be it. It's also very reasonably priced, considering the amount of content.
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2010, 10:29:20 AM »

I've been thinking about this a little more. I think Jordanville (or something similar, like the HTM prayer book) might be more useful for someone new to Orthodoxy. One book that is truly useful, although not as portable, is the Liturgikon published by the Antiochian Archdiocese. If I were only going to get one book for all my liturgical needs, as it were, that would probably be it. It's also very reasonably priced, considering the amount of content.

I thought the liturgikon was primarily for clergy? Does it include prayers for laymen?
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2010, 03:51:06 PM »

I've been thinking about this a little more. I think Jordanville (or something similar, like the HTM prayer book) might be more useful for someone new to Orthodoxy. One book that is truly useful, although not as portable, is the Liturgikon published by the Antiochian Archdiocese. If I were only going to get one book for all my liturgical needs, as it were, that would probably be it. It's also very reasonably priced, considering the amount of content.

I thought the liturgikon was primarily for clergy? Does it include prayers for laymen?

I expect anyone wanting to become more familiar with liturgy might find it useful. It has all the stuff you'd expect to find in a Horologion, plus the Liturgy of St. John, the Presanctified Gifts, some of the services for Holy Week, the Kneeling Vespers, etc. A lot of very, very useful content, plus the rubrics. (I always find it frustrating when a prayer book only has half or three-quarters of the services.) As I said, if I were going to buy one book for all my needs, that would probably be it. That's not to say other books wouldn't be very useful, or that the Liturgikon has everything. For example, it doesn't contain any of the Akathists or Canons we'd be used to in the prayer books from the Slavic tradition (I am not that familiar with the ones from the Greek tradition, apart from the huge HTM Horologion).

For anyone with the Internet, though, I have to say the vast majority of this content is available somewhere online. A number of Web sites have daily prayers posted, as well as the Troparia and Kontakia for the saints of feasts of the day. In a pinch, one could always make a prayer book of one's own!
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2010, 08:32:57 PM »

this is very interesting and helpful, thanks much!

I like to do the Canon the night before and the prayers in the morning, after my regular morning prayers.

You know, I hate to sound like a prig, because I have as much trouble getting myself together in the morning as anyone. But I've never understood the excuse of not having enough time for prayers in the morning. We're not taking about a whole Matins service followed by the hours. The morning prayers in the Old Orthodox Prayer Book don't even take 20 minutes to say (Jordanville about the same; HTM and Manual of Eastern Orthodox Prayer maybe 10 minutes tops), and while it's more effective to say them in front of the icons, you could say them while getting ready if you had to. When I can't find even 20 minutes for prayer my day definitely suffers. Leaving the house without spending time with God seems like a really bad way of establishing my priorities for myself. And as I say, I always pay for it in increased irritability and decreased effectiveness. Compassion seems further out of reach--I just don't have as good a day. And if I let it go for a couple of days, I start to feel really far out of balance. If I'm responsible for children, it sets a terrible example for them about what's important and what's optional. Children need to see their parents praying and reading scriptures, not just hear them talk about it. (Or nag them.) It's just not worth it for another few minutes of lying in bed or standing under the hot water tap. Or checking my e-mail or watching the weather channel--whatever it is I convince myself is more important than starting out right with God.
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