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Author Topic: Anyone ever heard of the ESV Bible Translation?  (Read 5122 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 12, 2003, 02:03:41 AM »

Found this while shopping for a Bible online today...looked interesting

Quote
The ESV has been carefully weighed against the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, to ensure the fullest accuracy and clarity and to avoid under-translating or overlooking any nuance of the original text. The words and phrases themselves grow out of the Tyndale-King James legacy, and most recently out of the RSV, with the 1971 RSV text providing the starting point for the translation. Archaic language has been brought to current usage and significant corrections have been made in the translation of key texts. But throughout, the goal has been to retain the depth of meaning and enduring language that have made their indelible mark on the English-speaking world and have defined the life and doctrine of the church over the last four centuries. (Adapted from Crossway Books.)

What's the word on this translation?
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2003, 08:11:07 AM »

I haven't seen one, but I looked at some of the materials about it.

What this looks like is a touch-up of the RSV to try and do what the NRSV was supposed to, except "right" this time. The translation committee is evangelicals, in the broader sense (e.g. there one guy from Trinity Episcopal School For Ministry, which is the Episcopal evangelical seminary); there are no Catholics and no Orthodox. And I'm guessing that they didn't address the Apocrypha.

My guess is that most people here would be happier with the RSV.
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2003, 08:29:35 PM »

Dear David,

Funny you should mention this, I bought one of these at B&N yesterday.  Did Bobby tell you I asked him about it yesterday?  

I haven't had too much time to look through it, read it, etc., but from what I did see, I liked it enough to buy it.  It doesn't have the Deuterocanonicals, but I suppose if you have those in another Bible you should be alright.  The ESV looks good.  I'll see how good it is once I get to use it more.
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2003, 11:49:01 PM »

My alloted yearly allowance for bibles has been overdrawn, bankrupt, zro.

james
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2003, 11:56:56 AM »

I think mine at home is one of these (with Apocrypha).  After a link (maybe Linus) posted of how to get an Oxford-Annotated with Apocrypha from walmart.com, I told my dad to get me, he got me this instead (ESV).  The word "Oxford" was somehow in the title, so my dad bought it (becuase it was cheap  Roll Eyes).  I don't think it is that great, but it's probably better than the "Living Bible" (sans Apoc) my ELCA foster parents got me several years ago.
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2003, 12:10:34 PM »

Dear David,

Funny you should mention this, I bought one of these at B&N yesterday.  Did Bobby tell you I asked him about it yesterday?  

I haven't had too much time to look through it, read it, etc., but from what I did see, I liked it enough to buy it.  It doesn't have the Deuterocanonicals, but I suppose if you have those in another Bible you should be alright.  The ESV looks good.  I'll see how good it is once I get to use it more.  

Actually, Bobby didn't mention it.  I saw one at Books-A-Million and it looked interesting, but was shrinkwrapped so I couldn't check out the text.

Let me know what you think after you get into it more.
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2003, 12:11:14 PM »

My alloted yearly allowance for bibles has been overdrawn, bankrupt, zro.

james

How many have you bought this year already?   Shocked
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2003, 12:24:23 PM »

David,

6 bibles, 2-RSV, 1 KJV, 2 Douay/Confraternity, 1 NAB first edition, 1 Orthodox Study Bible.

One RSV is first edition, went to Korea with military in 1961, the other is the Ecumenical RSV expanded edition.

1 Douay/Confraternity sent to a friend, the other just aquired and unmarked 1958 memorial edition in cedar box.

I am very happy to own the OSB, being a RC I like the notes of the Fathers and love the Icons. I use it for all NT readings.

james

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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2003, 02:18:08 AM »

Found an interesting page that had more ESV information.  It certainly has piqued my curiosity, I will probably have to order one now.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/esv.html

This is an evangelical revision of the Revised Standard Version that corrects the non-Christian interpretations of the RSV in the Old Testament and improves the accuracy throughout with more literal renderings. It also updates the language somewhat. The makers of this version undertook the work with the idea that there was a need for an evangelical version that was more literal than the New International Version but more idiomatic than the New American Standard Bible. The Revised Standard Version seemed close enough to this middle ground that it might be suitably revised in a short period of time.

Some Corrected Prophecies
More significant than any of the changes listed in the sample above are the following three examples from the Old Testament. The passages of the RSV given below are examples of the many which were found to be highly objectionable by evangelicals, and prevented the RSV from ever gaining acceptance outside of liberal circles.




Genesis 22:15-18
RSV
And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven, and said, "By myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. And your decendants shall possess the gate of their enemies, and by your decendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.

ESV
And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven, and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.

This passage is in the RSV a good example of that version's tendency to interpret the Old Testament without reference to the New Testament. The true Christological meaning of the blessing and the prophecy given here is simply ruled out by the RSV, though it is practically required by a New Testament passage (see Galatians 3:16) which interprets the blessing of Abraham as a prophecy of Christ. The ESV restores this interpretation, on the authority of the Apostle Paul. A similar revision is made in the related passages, Genesis 12:3, 22:18, 26:4, and 28:14. See also "offspring" in Psalm 89:4, 29, and 36 in relation to John 12:34 (to which the ESV points in a cross-reference note at Psalm 89:4).




Psalm 2:11-12
RSV
Serve the Lord with fear, with trembling kiss his feet, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

ESV
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

The meaning of this verse in the ESV (which gives a literal rendering of the Hebrew text) ought to be clear to any Christian. The RSV translators gave instead a conjectural emendation of the text, with the footnote, "Cn [correction]: The Hebrew of 11b and 12a is uncertain."




Isaiah 7:14
RSV
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

ESV
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

This verse gives a prophecy of Christ, as explained in Matthew 1:23. The RSV translators chose to ignore the New Testament, as usual, and it was their belief that the immediate context made "young woman" a more likely interpretation (though "virgin" is undoubtedly a correct translation of the Hebrew word almah). The ESV follows the inspired interpretation of Matthew, and includes no footnote giving an alternate rendering. Many similar examples could be given where the ESV has restored traditional Christian interpretations in the Old Testament.


The ESV revisers have normally left unchanged the RSV's generic use of "man" and "men" (see the translation of anthropos in 1.18, 1.23, 2.1, 2.3, 2.16, 2.29) and also "his" (see 2.6, 2.29), and so it is hard to see on what principle they have changed or qualified "men," "man," "brothers," and "he" in these places. But apart from these few places, the changes of the ESV are a distinct improvement upon the RSV.

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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2003, 02:34:09 AM »

This passage is in the RSV a good example of that version's tendency to interpret the Old Testament without reference to the New Testament. The true Christological meaning of the blessing and the prophecy given here is simply ruled out by the RSV, though it is practically required by a New Testament passage (see Galatians 3:16) which interprets the blessing of Abraham as a prophecy of Christ. The ESV restores this interpretation, on the authority of the Apostle Paul. A similar revision is made in the related passages, Genesis 12:3, 22:18, 26:4, and 28:14. See also "offspring" in Psalm 89:4, 29, and 36 in relation to John 12:34 (to which the ESV points in a cross-reference note at Psalm 89:4).

But does the actual original text itself justify such translations, or did the translators simply feel justified in translating theology into their work?  I'm not sure how I feel about this, although I like this translation so far.
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2003, 09:09:58 AM »

I don't see what the big deal is about the Genesis passage, and we all know every step of the way about Isaiah, but their explanation of the Psalm verses sets off alarms.

I've looked at a bucket load of different versions, and what I've seen is a near total lack of consensus about how to translate this passage. I've found at least three different patterns:

Modern translations that reference the MT almost without exception go for some variation of the "Feet" reading. Versions of the KJV tend to go for the "Son" version. The Vulgate has a totally different reading from either of these, and then there are other idiosyncratic readings. Unfortunately I can't get the LXX to come up properly.

The real problem is (naturally) hidden in a footnote. The RSV says "Cn: The Hebrew of 11b and 12a is uncertain". In other words, everyone is winging it to a greater or lesser degree. And this leads directly to a fundamental dispute about the intent of translation.

The impression I get from what I read in these different versions is that there indeed isn't a pure, undamaged, easily understood Hebrew original that anyone can trace a line back to. It should be remembered that the KJV translators didn't have any versions available that we don't have; hence, an idiosyncratic reading from them is immediately suspect. And this is where the modern theory that one doesn't insert interpretation into the text comes through most strongly. It's one thing to go back and forth about "almah", and frankly the centrist conclusion is that debate about the Isaiah passage has more meaning in itself than does the actual translation. But in this case what we have is a bit of Hebrew that nobody really understands. The RSV translators at least have the honesty to admit this, with the implied conclusion of "look, don't bet your life on our translation of this verse." I haven't got an ESV (and I'm increasingly unlikely to get one), so I can't see what notes it might have, but if it isn't saying "Hebrew uncertain" in this passage, I wouldn't trust it.
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2003, 09:37:52 AM »

Psalm 2:11-12 from the Greek and with Brenton's translation

+¦++-à +++¦ß++-â+¦-ä+¦ -äß++ +¦-à -üß++ß+¦ ß+É++ -åß+¦+¦ß+¦ +¦+¦ß+¦ ß+Ç+¦+¦+++++¦ß+¦-â+++¦ +¦ß+É-äß++ ß+É++ -ä-üß+¦++ß+¦
+¦-üß+¦+++¦-â+++¦ -Ç+¦+¦+¦+¦ß+++¦-é ++ß+¦-Ç++-ä+¦ ß+Ç-ü+¦+¦-â++ß+ç +¦ß++-ü+¦++-é +¦+¦ß+¦ ß+Ç-Ç+++++¦ß+û-â+++¦ ß+É++ ß+ü+¦++ß+ª +¦+¦+¦+¦ß+++¦-é
ß+à -ä+¦++ ß+É+¦+¦+¦-à ++ ß+É++ -äß+¦-ç+¦+¦ ß+ü ++-à ++ß++-é +¦ß+É-ä++ß+ª +++¦+¦ß+¦-ü+¦+++¦ -Çß+¦++-ä+¦-é ++ß+¦ -Ç+¦-Ç+++¦++ß+¦-ä+¦-é ß+É-Ç' +¦ß+É-äß++

Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice in him with trembling.
Accept correction, lest at any time the Lord be angry, and ye should perish from the righteous way: whensoever his wrath shall be suddenly kindled, blessed are all they that trust in him.


Don't know if this is any help to anyone.

John.
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2003, 09:46:53 AM »

The Vulgate and the D-R take the same reading as this.
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2010, 05:58:28 AM »

a most interesting webstire on the ESV study bible:  http://www.esvstudybible.org/

in my opinion, the bible, in modern times, has become far to much like the magazine industry.  "If I don't have the newest one, I am not up to date on God's word" a friend of mine told me.   laugh   in my opinion, if you are looking for a bible, I reccomend the Orthodox study bible.  I recieved a copy from my mother for Christmas and I LOVE IT.  but, there is nothing wrong with going to an antique shop and getting a delicate bible, that has a history.   

(not that you asked for my opinion, of course Grin)
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2010, 08:36:08 AM »

I haven't seen one, but I looked at some of the materials about it.

What this looks like is a touch-up of the RSV to try and do what the NRSV was supposed to, except "right" this time. The translation committee is evangelicals, in the broader sense (e.g. there one guy from Trinity Episcopal School For Ministry, which is the Episcopal evangelical seminary); there are no Catholics and no Orthodox. And I'm guessing that they didn't address the Apocrypha.

My guess is that most people here would be happier with the RSV.


Another issue is that when they say "The ESV has been carefully weighed against the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek," they don't mean that they checked the OT against the LXX. A problem.

a most interesting webstire on the ESV study bible:  http://www.esvstudybible.org/

in my opinion, the bible, in modern times, has become far to much like the magazine industry.  "If I don't have the newest one, I am not up to date on God's word" a friend of mine told me.   laugh   in my opinion, if you are looking for a bible, I reccomend the Orthodox study bible.  I recieved a copy from my mother for Christmas and I LOVE IT.  but, there is nothing wrong with going to an antique shop and getting a delicate bible, that has a history.   

(not that you asked for my opinion, of course Grin)

The OSB is not without its problems (it could have more fidelity to the LXX text), but I like when I have my sons read Daniel for the first time, that it is what we know as Daniel, and not a truncated version with parts (Susanna, Song of the Three Youths, Bel and the Dragon) stuck in an appendix if included at all (no thank you, St. Jerome).
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2010, 11:38:33 AM »

Found this while shopping for a Bible online today...looked interesting

Quote
The ESV has been carefully weighed against the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, to ensure the fullest accuracy and clarity and to avoid under-translating or overlooking any nuance of the original text. The words and phrases themselves grow out of the Tyndale-King James legacy, and most recently out of the RSV, with the 1971 RSV text providing the starting point for the translation. Archaic language has been brought to current usage and significant corrections have been made in the translation of key texts. But throughout, the goal has been to retain the depth of meaning and enduring language that have made their indelible mark on the English-speaking world and have defined the life and doctrine of the church over the last four centuries. (Adapted from Crossway Books.)

What's the word on this translation?


I heard of it, and most of my protestant Calvinistic and Reformed friends love it.........it is pretty much becoming the modern version of the old Geneva Bible.








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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2010, 12:08:06 PM »

The ESV is quite a good Evangelical translation, it's more literal than the NRSV but not as literal as the NASB and not as theologicially biased as the NIV. But I would suggest getting the WEB (World English Bible) instead as the NT has been conformed to the Byzantine text (the ESV is based on the Alexandrian text). IMO the WEB (revised from the ASV) is better than both the KJV & NKJV.
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2010, 03:56:34 PM »

Here is a review of the ESV (hopefully this hasn't already been posted):

http://www.bible-researcher.com/esv.html

One translation that has piqued my interest as of late is the ISV (international standard version):

http://isv.org/index.htm
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« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2010, 04:53:47 PM »

One translation that has piqued my interest as of late is the ISV (international standard version):

http://isv.org/index.htm

I quite like what I've seen so far about this one.
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« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2010, 07:11:38 PM »

The ESV is quite a good Evangelical translation, it's more literal than the NRSV but not as literal as the NASB and not as theologicially biased as the NIV. But I would suggest getting the WEB (World English Bible) instead as the NT has been conformed to the Byzantine text (the ESV is based on the Alexandrian text). IMO the WEB (revised from the ASV) is better than both the KJV & NKJV.

It's theologically biased,.......all translations are.








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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2010, 07:30:37 PM »

It's my favourite translation, especially now that the Deuterocanon has been translated.
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