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SolEX01
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« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2011, 01:12:19 AM » |
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I'm honestly surprised by the number of negative votes  19 negative votes out of 58 isn't exactly a resounding majority. |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2011, 01:15:32 AM » |
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I'm honestly surprised by the number of negative votes 19 negative votes out of 58 isn't exactly a resounding majority. True. I suppose I just was focusing on a negative answer having the most votes of all the options. |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 01:15:46 AM by Asteriktos »
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Seafra
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It's in the shelter of each other that people live
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« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2011, 01:05:34 PM » |
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hahaha well from the responses i read about self mutilation i will probably be shunned but i grew up an Army brat and was around many pacific islanders from 4-8 yr old. I saw a lot of scarification and decided i wanted to get a cross when i was older. Not for fashion or vanity partially for self mutilation but as a reminder, though nothing in the slightest bit comparable, of the pain Christ endured for me. but as for tattoos i never was interested in them...
However i have been considering the coptic tradition of getting two small cross tattoos on my wrists...
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BoredMeeting
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« Reply #93 on: June 16, 2011, 05:05:03 PM » |
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hahaha well from the responses i read about self mutilation i will probably be shunned...
I've seen quite a few tattooed people in Orthodox Church and never saw any of them being "shunned." |
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Seafra
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« Reply #94 on: June 16, 2011, 05:22:18 PM » |
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hahaha well from the responses i read about self mutilation i will probably be shunned...
I've seen quite a few tattooed people in Orthodox Church and never saw any of them being "shunned." well thats not a "tattoo" its a cutting... through the process of skin removal a design is cut into the skin |
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Monk Cyprian
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« Reply #95 on: June 16, 2011, 06:32:02 PM » |
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IIRC, there is a canon prohibiting self-mutilation. My apologies for not being able to reference it off the top of my head (contrary to popular opinion, most monks don't sleep with copies of The Rudder under their pillows). The trick is: figuring out what exactly that is. Is a tattoo mutilation, or enhancement? That's the entire crux. If a tattoo is mutilation, then it's out. If it's not, then it's not prohibited.
Considering how many matushka's have pierced ears, and I wouldn't dare accuse them of mutilating their bodies (especially if you've ever had to deal with a fiesty matushka!), there seems to be some room for interpretation on what is mutilation and what isn't. And it is a common, historical and (IMO) venerable practice amongst the Coptics and Ethiopians.
That being said, amongst Russians there seems to be an assumption that a tattoo marks one as a member of organized crime (the vor v zakone), or at least seriously anti-social like some sort of skin-head gang, so they tend to be less sympathetic towards it.
There was also some scant evidence that the early Celtic Christians continued the practice of tattooing themselves, just with Christian symbols rather than pagan ones, IIRC. But, I don't think the scholarship is entirely conclusive about that one. But that's why they were called "Picts"; because they were the "pictured" men, or men with "pictures" on them.
I'm pleasantly surprised that no one has brought up the Old Testament prohibitions against tattoos. I always cringe when people do that, to be frank. It betrays a serious lack of understanding of how the Old Testament laws are fulfilled in Christ and frankly don't apply to Christians. You can't just "cherry pick" OT laws that you like (usually for other people to follow!). You either follow all of the Law (and be Jewish BTW), or none of it. If you want to prohibit tattoos based on Leviticus 19:28, then you also have to have fringes on your clothing, a parapet around your roof, keep kosher, keep the Saturday Sabbath and can't shave the sides of your head, amongst other things. The Law is an all or nothing kind of thing. It's either all 613 laws, or none.
Now, I personally think one should probably get the blessing of one's spiritual father before getting a tattoo. If one already has them, well what's done is done, and unless one is rather wealthy, can't be removed. But, I wouldn't get anymore (I have two) without my spiritual father's blessing, and they would also have to be deeply symbolic and meaningful, rather than just a "pretty picture".
Just my thoughts though. Your mileage may vary.
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Was it Divine Liturgy in English in XIXth Century Russia? No, it was not I am the telling you! Is OUTRAGE! Now is to be Slavonic music and Byzantine vestment in same church. This is what when KGB run the seminary.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2011, 12:18:27 PM » |
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Riyadh forbids tattoos of Christ Last year, the Romanian player Mirel Radoi, from the club Al-Hilal (the crescent) kissed the cross tattoo on his arm after scoring a goal. The episode scandalised Muslims.
Go Romania! http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/blog-san-pietro-e-dintorni-en/detail/articolo/8909/ |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #97 on: October 12, 2012, 02:57:54 AM » |
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Idea for Western Rite tattoo: St. Guinefort   |
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 02:59:03 AM by NicholasMyra »
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #98 on: October 12, 2012, 02:25:57 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! When I first started attending Ethiopian services, one of my favorite and most delightful experiences was meeting wonderful elderly ladies who were in LA speak "tatted up"  Face tattoos, sleeves, hand tattoos, neck tattoos, the works. In LA unfortunately a lot of folks are getting out of hand, and even in perfectly legitimate careers you find teachers, doctors, civil servants, secretaries, and all kinds of public figures who are tatted up. Who have sleeves, or neck tattoos, still no face tats outside of jailbirds. I don't have any ink (I had congo dreads for eight years, that was eclectic enough even for Los Angeles  ) but I have literally grown up hanging out with folks in tattoo parlors and getting inked up in people's living rooms. Tattoos are perfectly normal to me, most of my family have them, and almost all of my friends, and several of my co-workers, and what I lament, many of my underage students (  ) The Ethiopian tattoos evolved from several different cultural and political circumstances. Some folks get them out of purely spiritual and religious motivations, others evolved in the history of slavery and civil wars (the "lip disc" evolved among the Omo people for the same reasons to ward of slave raiders).. Today it is perfectly acceptable in the Church setting for folks to have a variety of tattoos, for both cultural and spiritual reasons. I'm not sure if we have any canons specifically forbidding one tattoo design over another, perhaps sister Hiwot can better clarify on this for us. I would advise for folks who get "Icon" tattoos to think responsibly. Icons are rightfully kept in revered places, for specific times and settings. When we put them on our skin, we just might be making our burden too much to carry sometimes, even priests would feel unworthy I imagine of these images on their skin. On the flip side, for some folks icons on the skin might just keep them out of trouble, but then again, we all sin daily so its a toss up one way or the other.. stay blessed, habte selassie |
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 02:28:35 PM by HabteSelassie »
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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Orthodox11
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« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2012, 02:36:15 PM » |
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I would advise for folks who get "Icon" tattoos to think responsibly. Icons are rightfully kept in revered places, for specific times and settings. When we put them on our skin, we just might be making our burden too much to carry sometimes, even priests would feel unworthy I imagine of these images on their skin. On the flip side, for some folks icons on the skin might just keep them out of trouble, but then again, we all sin daily so its a toss up one way or the other.
It's not merely a question of reverence. Icons are devotional objects, and their purpose cannot be served on someone's arms, back, chest, etc. |
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2012, 02:40:43 PM » |
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Icons should not be made into tattoos or put on shirts. We wear crosses, it might be okay to have writing or a cross or symbol of some sort, but icons are not appropriate.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #101 on: October 12, 2012, 02:43:37 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! I would advise for folks who get "Icon" tattoos to think responsibly. Icons are rightfully kept in revered places, for specific times and settings. When we put them on our skin, we just might be making our burden too much to carry sometimes, even priests would feel unworthy I imagine of these images on their skin. On the flip side, for some folks icons on the skin might just keep them out of trouble, but then again, we all sin daily so its a toss up one way or the other.
It's not merely a question of reverence. Icons are devotional objects, and their purpose cannot be served on someone's arms, back, chest, etc. I agree completely, but on the same token, I can understand the appeal. In reality is the Cross any different and yet it is a common thing in our lives, and is a common tattoo as well. I personally do not feel folks should get tattoos of Iconography, and again, I can understand the Byzantine canons/Fathers prohibitions on these. Further, I don't know a lot of Orthodox who have such, but I have met and know plenty of Catholics and unaffiliated folks who have tats of Jesus or Our Lady (sometimes you see more tattoos of Our Lady of Guadelupe in LA than you do murals and that is saying something!!), and lightening bolts haven't exactly struck them down yet stay blessed, habte selassie |
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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choy
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« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2012, 02:47:39 PM » |
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Can I get a tatoo of ICXC?
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WeldeMikael
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Lord have mercy !
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« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2012, 02:49:11 PM » |
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Can I get a tatoo of ICXC?
As a non - Coptic, is it okay to have a small cross on the wrist ? |
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peacenprayer
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« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2012, 04:24:24 PM » |
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I've got three. One on each arm, one on my chest. All from before I was Orthodox so I don't really want them anymore. Removal is as painful as it is expensive, and getting them covered would be considerably cheaper, but likely to be frowned upon. Sucky conundrum, that.
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Orthodox11
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« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2012, 04:55:16 PM » |
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Can I get a tatoo of ICXC?
Based on the assumption that tattoos are okay, which is questionable, I don't see why ICXC would be inappropriate. As a non - Coptic, is it okay to have a small cross on the wrist ?
The Coptic practice is a direct result of their experience of persecution. I really wanted one for a long time, but I think those of us who do not come from that social context should ask ourselves if there really is any reason to get such a tattoo other than needless vanity. I've yet to find a good reason, so I've yet to get one. The late Pope Shenouda III did not have one, and I know many Coptic bishops discourage those living outside the Islamic world from getting them. |
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 04:57:00 PM by Orthodox11 »
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WeldeMikael
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« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2012, 04:59:28 PM » |
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That's what I thought too.
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2013, 04:51:45 PM » |
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mabsoota
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Kyrie eleison
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« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2013, 07:05:59 PM » |
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personally, i am a big fan of cross tattoos. i am also a fan of sterilisation of equipment! i have only once seen a coptic priest who did not have a tattoo, so the prohibition must have been somewhere else. and i think it's fine for others to copy coptic tattoos, but i suggest u get it done by a Christian so it doesn't look weird. i once asked for a cross henna 'tattoo' when i was having the henna from my friend's wedding. i didn't realise the henna specialist was muslim (she wasn't hijabi or anything), i only found out after i asked when her cross looked wobbly. i am glad it wasn't a permanent one! so check sterility, check you tattooist and be sure you never want to go into a japanese spa (they don't allow tattoos and you have to go in 100% naked, so u can't hide anything!) i don't know of any orthodox churches that forbid them. |
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Ersaia
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« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2013, 08:00:41 PM » |
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I have seen small crosses in the face in photos of old women from some greek areas  http://www.vlahoi.net/multimedia/gallery.htmlas they wrote there they make this tattoo in young girls because muslims took the girls for harems and wanted to abjuring this or wanted when the girls become older in harems to remember that they were christians btw I just realize how problematic was the "nazi number tattoo" in the Jews |
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Android_Rewster
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« Reply #110 on: March 04, 2013, 03:33:05 PM » |
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This is super old. I just found this on google while searching for the church's opinion on tattoos! haha
I've been considering gettin the Petrine Cross. Do any of you think people would find this offensive, given the current context of what it's used for in modern death metal bands? :/
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mabsoota
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« Reply #111 on: March 04, 2013, 03:35:35 PM » |
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what is the petrine cross? sorry, have missed a few of the latest death metal bands due to prior commitments.  |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #112 on: March 04, 2013, 03:40:28 PM » |
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what is the petrine cross?
Upside down cross I would assume (they say Peter was crucified upside down)... As for me, I plan on getting an upside down cross, but it will be more a mirror image of the Russian Orthodox Cross* I already have, not a design by itself. I wouldn't get an upside down cross as a centerpiece or by itself, any more than I would get a swastika in celebration of some noble/peaceful religious use. The symbols have just been too far corrupted IMO, and would cause too much confusion. * For those who want to argue this-- that's right, there is such a thing as a Russian Orthodox cross. Sorry if you can't wrap your mind around that. Come at me bro. |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 03:42:36 PM by Asteriktos »
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mabsoota
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« Reply #113 on: March 04, 2013, 03:47:33 PM » |
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why would you want an upside down cross?
(sorry, i am ignorant, naive and almost middle aged...)
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sheenj
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« Reply #114 on: March 04, 2013, 03:52:05 PM » |
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why would you want an upside down cross?
(sorry, i am ignorant, naive and almost middle aged...)
I guess if St. Peter is your Patron Saint, seeing as how he was crucified upside down. |
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Android_Rewster
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« Reply #115 on: March 04, 2013, 04:45:28 PM » |
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The Petrine Cross is symbolically used to represent humility and inadequacy in comparison to Jesus Christ, the perfect sacrifice. Peter was hung upside down because he didn't believe he was worthy to die like Christ. I have some particular emotional ties to the story and I'd love a reminder that Christ, though sinless, died in my sinful place. |
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Arachne
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« Reply #116 on: March 04, 2013, 04:54:54 PM » |
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I've reached middle age without any ink on me, so it's highly unlikely that I'd decide to get something now... but if I did, a Brigid's cross would be the most suitable. Only I'd have to find an actual, physical cross to take to the artist to copy, because the flash designs I've seen are just tacky.
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The reason why clichés are so satisfying is because the truth never loses its residual force. Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox |
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mabsoota
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« Reply #117 on: March 04, 2013, 06:04:14 PM » |
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arachne, you have 5 years to go in my flawless, well researched international definition of 'middle age' (it used to be '40' but the definition got older as i did!) also i agree it's important not to end up with a tacky design (see my 'reply 108' on this page) android rewster (can i call u android for short?!), maybe you could get a normal cross, plus a symbol of peter next to it. then no one would confuse you with a death metal musician! i wish u all the best in your tattoo hunt. |
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2013, 09:01:55 PM » |
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Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am Jehovah.
I'd take it up with God before you got a tattoo. It's his temple.
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JamesR
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« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2013, 09:31:31 PM » |
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The Church very clearly condemns it, however, I think an exception could be made for the Copts who have to tattoo their children so that they'll remember their faith if the heathen Muslims kidnap them. I'd personally like to get the two Crosses tattooed on my wrists sort of as a way of paying respect to them.
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2013, 09:43:47 PM » |
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The Church very clearly condemns it, Evidence...? |
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JamesR
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« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2013, 09:46:22 PM » |
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The Church very clearly condemns it, Evidence...? My spiritual father told me that the Church does not look too kindly to it and STRONGLY recommended that I don't get any about a year ago. |
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #122 on: March 05, 2013, 01:46:04 PM » |
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Among others, I have this on the inside of my arm/bicep. Looks like Morals and dogma cover...  |
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alanscott
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« Reply #123 on: March 06, 2013, 09:22:34 AM » |
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Forgive my butting in... |
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There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
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