Poll

Is it proper for an Orthodox Christian to get a tattoo?

It's fine, nothing wrong with it.
42 (22.6%)
They can if they want, but I wouldn't.
27 (14.5%)
Only in some circumstances.
23 (12.4%)
I don't think it's proper, no.
38 (20.4%)
It is absolutely, positively sinful!
15 (8.1%)
I'm not sure.
37 (19.9%)
None of the above.
4 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 186

Author Topic: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos  (Read 130250 times)

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #315 on: April 15, 2014, 02:07:24 AM »
Please do. I need all the help I can get to tolerate much of what passes for wisdom around here. :laugh:

Then would you be kind enough to enlighten us poor ignorants as to what is wise and foolish on this thread?
For one, foolishness is your attempt to speak for the nebulous "us".

You are presuming to be the arbiter of wisdom and foolishness here.

Do you honestly think that the mentos Jesus tattoo is not something Christians, not just Orthodox Christians, should be offended by?
Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus, and why must we be so easily offended?

please see above...

even if its not actually Jesus....

its Charlie Manson with Mentos.

we -must- all be offended by that....

transcends age, race, religion, everything...

I shall repeat.

It is Charlie.....Manson.....with ....Mentos.


more clear now?
But why must we be offended?

oh let me count the ways.......

granted..you are just being difficult to be difficult....but i shall play along.


1. Bad Art offends..
Marc Chagall-    “When I am finishing a picture I hold some God-made object up to it / a rock, a flower, the branch of a tree or my hand / as a kind of final test. If the painting stands up beside a thing man cannot make, the painting is authentic. If there's a clash between the two, it is bad art.”

This tattoo is so poorly executed that we cannot hold it up against either Charles Manson or Jesus and be sure which was meant.  

2. If it is Charles Manson, really? I need to explain why a tattoo of him is offensive in general?

3. Abuse of Mentos.  I am sure that many of us love Mentos, and having them associated with 1. a serial killer, and 2. hideous artwork, makes them less palatable.   Charlie Manson wouldn't even like that he is abusing Mentos like this, and he is an egotistical so and so.....



1. "Bad art offends." - Only if you let it offend you. But why should you be offended? No, I'm not asking this just to be difficult?

2. So what if it is Charles Manson? Why should we let an image of him offend us? Merely complaining that you have to actually explain why this offends you isn't a good answer.

3. Who really cares about Mentos, anyway?
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Offline Rhinosaur

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #316 on: April 15, 2014, 02:10:02 AM »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #317 on: April 15, 2014, 02:10:41 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #318 on: April 15, 2014, 02:12:08 AM »
Please do. I need all the help I can get to tolerate much of what passes for wisdom around here. :laugh:

Then would you be kind enough to enlighten us poor ignorants as to what is wise and foolish on this thread?
For one, foolishness is your attempt to speak for the nebulous "us".

You are presuming to be the arbiter of wisdom and foolishness here.

Do you honestly think that the mentos Jesus tattoo is not something Christians, not just Orthodox Christians, should be offended by?
Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus, and why must we be so easily offended?

please see above...

even if its not actually Jesus....

its Charlie Manson with Mentos.

we -must- all be offended by that....

transcends age, race, religion, everything...

I shall repeat.

It is Charlie.....Manson.....with ....Mentos.


more clear now?
But why must we be offended?

oh let me count the ways.......

granted..you are just being difficult to be difficult....but i shall play along.


1. Bad Art offends..
Marc Chagall-    “When I am finishing a picture I hold some God-made object up to it / a rock, a flower, the branch of a tree or my hand / as a kind of final test. If the painting stands up beside a thing man cannot make, the painting is authentic. If there's a clash between the two, it is bad art.”

This tattoo is so poorly executed that we cannot hold it up against either Charles Manson or Jesus and be sure which was meant.  

2. If it is Charles Manson, really? I need to explain why a tattoo of him is offensive in general?

3. Abuse of Mentos.  I am sure that many of us love Mentos, and having them associated with 1. a serial killer, and 2. hideous artwork, makes them less palatable.   Charlie Manson wouldn't even like that he is abusing Mentos like this, and he is an egotistical so and so.....



1. "Bad art offends." - Only if you let it offend you. But why should you be offended? No, I'm not asking this just to be difficult?

2. So what if it is Charles Manson? Why should we let an image of him offend us? Merely complaining that you have to actually explain why this offends you isn't a good answer.

3. Who really cares about Mentos, anyway?

1.  Having no standards leaves one open to falling for all sorts of rubbish.....this applies to both 'belief systems' (which i am sure you would agree with) and other things....like art, music...etc.  Have no standards and you are listening to atonal rubbish.....

2.  Tattoo of Jeffrey Dahmer? Hitler? Gacey?  These things should be offensive to humanity.  It glorifies something so utterly devoid of good.

3. I care...mentos are nice...and to have a serial killer as their spokestatoo....ugh.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #319 on: April 15, 2014, 02:18:24 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.

Putting words in my mouth again, PtA, with your presumption, of which you have ample supply. I simply asked a straight question.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 02:18:42 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #320 on: April 15, 2014, 02:22:29 AM »
Please do. I need all the help I can get to tolerate much of what passes for wisdom around here. :laugh:

Then would you be kind enough to enlighten us poor ignorants as to what is wise and foolish on this thread?
For one, foolishness is your attempt to speak for the nebulous "us".

You are presuming to be the arbiter of wisdom and foolishness here.

Do you honestly think that the mentos Jesus tattoo is not something Christians, not just Orthodox Christians, should be offended by?
Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus, and why must we be so easily offended?

please see above...

even if its not actually Jesus....

its Charlie Manson with Mentos.

we -must- all be offended by that....

transcends age, race, religion, everything...

I shall repeat.

It is Charlie.....Manson.....with ....Mentos.


more clear now?
But why must we be offended?

oh let me count the ways.......

granted..you are just being difficult to be difficult....but i shall play along.


1. Bad Art offends..
Marc Chagall-    “When I am finishing a picture I hold some God-made object up to it / a rock, a flower, the branch of a tree or my hand / as a kind of final test. If the painting stands up beside a thing man cannot make, the painting is authentic. If there's a clash between the two, it is bad art.”

This tattoo is so poorly executed that we cannot hold it up against either Charles Manson or Jesus and be sure which was meant.  

2. If it is Charles Manson, really? I need to explain why a tattoo of him is offensive in general?

3. Abuse of Mentos.  I am sure that many of us love Mentos, and having them associated with 1. a serial killer, and 2. hideous artwork, makes them less palatable.   Charlie Manson wouldn't even like that he is abusing Mentos like this, and he is an egotistical so and so.....



1. "Bad art offends." - Only if you let it offend you. But why should you be offended? No, I'm not asking this just to be difficult?

2. So what if it is Charles Manson? Why should we let an image of him offend us? Merely complaining that you have to actually explain why this offends you isn't a good answer.

3. Who really cares about Mentos, anyway?

1.  Having no standards leaves one open to falling for all sorts of rubbish.....this applies to both 'belief systems' (which i am sure you would agree with) and other things....like art, music...etc.  Have no standards and you are listening to atonal rubbish.....

2.  Tattoo of Jeffrey Dahmer? Hitler? Gacey?  These things should be offensive to humanity.  It glorifies something so utterly devoid of good.

3. I care...mentos are nice...and to have a serial killer as their spokestatoo....ugh.
1. I agree that some art is indeed rubbish, but that doesn't mean I'm required to be offended by it.

2. You're still arguing that images of mass murderers should cause offense as if this is some kind of given. That doesn't answer my fundamental question: Why?

3. Feel however you want about Mentos. I really don't care about them, for I never eat them.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #321 on: April 15, 2014, 02:26:00 AM »
The phrase Crimes against Humanity comes to mind......things so bad, so dire, so devoid of any of the goodness left in humans after the fall, that they in essense  affect -everyone-, not just a few.


If you are not offended and cannot see why we should all be offended by the glorification of mass murderers and serial killers.....then I am afraid that I will be praying for you for a long time.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #322 on: April 15, 2014, 02:26:17 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.

Putting words in my mouth again, PtA, with your presumption, of which you have ample supply. I simply asked a straight question.
Putting words into other peoples' mouths is your game, LBK. As much as you may like to think that was a straight question, it is loaded with presumptions to which I will not submit myself.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #323 on: April 15, 2014, 02:27:56 AM »


I'd be so let down if Jesus busted out a bass and then played with a pick, so in that way I'm pleased. I feel bad about whatever injury or disease left his leg like that though!
Facts unloading, please to wait

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #324 on: April 15, 2014, 02:28:55 AM »
The phrase Crimes against Humanity comes to mind......things so bad, so dire, so devoid of any of the goodness left in humans after the fall, that they in essense  affect -everyone-, not just a few.


If you are not offended and cannot see why we should all be offended by the glorification of mass murderers and serial killers.....then I am afraid that I will be praying for you for a long time.


If that's how you're going to judge me, then please don't pray for me. These things are not as obvious as you think they are.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #325 on: April 15, 2014, 02:35:10 AM »
The phrase Crimes against Humanity comes to mind......things so bad, so dire, so devoid of any of the goodness left in humans after the fall, that they in essense  affect -everyone-, not just a few.


If you are not offended and cannot see why we should all be offended by the glorification of mass murderers and serial killers.....then I am afraid that I will be praying for you for a long time.


If that's how you're going to judge me, then please don't pray for me. These things are not as obvious as you think they are.

Then, please, enlighten us on how we should see such things.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #326 on: April 15, 2014, 02:35:40 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.

I put no words in your mouth, I asked a question, which you've, at last, sort of answered.

Really, it does get rather tiresome to see you turn so much of what people say into an intellectual game for your own amusement.
LBK, you should know by now that I am an opponent of unwarranted and excessive dogmatism. This isn't an intellectual game for me.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #327 on: April 15, 2014, 02:36:25 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.

Putting words in my mouth again, PtA, with your presumption, of which you have ample supply. I simply asked a straight question.
Putting words into other peoples' mouths is your game, LBK. As much as you may like to think that was a straight question, it is loaded with presumptions to which I will not submit myself.

More presumption. It's clear you've lost the case.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #328 on: April 15, 2014, 02:38:38 AM »
dogmatism like

Murder, cannibalism and  genocide are wrong, and thus glorying them in artwork is at the least distasteful and at the most offensive?


or is that excessive and unwarranted?
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #329 on: April 15, 2014, 02:40:28 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.

I put no words in your mouth, I asked a question, which you've, at last, sort of answered.

Really, it does get rather tiresome to see you turn so much of what people say into an intellectual game for your own amusement.
LBK, you should know by now that I am an opponent of unwarranted and excessive dogmatism. This isn't an intellectual game for me.

"Unwarranted and excessive dogmatism" is what you call my expression of disapproval of an image of a cheesy Jesus holding a packet of Mentos, and my expression that Christians should be offended by it? Oh, my.

The fact that this image happens to be a tattoo is almost beside the point. If it were a painting or drawing, this would not change the nature of the image.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 02:41:02 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #330 on: April 15, 2014, 02:42:06 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.

Putting words in my mouth again, PtA, with your presumption, of which you have ample supply. I simply asked a straight question.
Putting words into other peoples' mouths is your game, LBK. As much as you may like to think that was a straight question, it is loaded with presumptions to which I will not submit myself.

More presumption. It's clear you've lost the case.
I'm not trying to win any "case". I think I have succeeded at accomplishing what I intended to accomplish, though. 8)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 02:46:20 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #331 on: April 15, 2014, 02:45:25 AM »
The phrase Crimes against Humanity comes to mind......things so bad, so dire, so devoid of any of the goodness left in humans after the fall, that they in essense  affect -everyone-, not just a few.


If you are not offended and cannot see why we should all be offended by the glorification of mass murderers and serial killers.....then I am afraid that I will be praying for you for a long time.


If that's how you're going to judge me, then please don't pray for me. These things are not as obvious as you think they are.


Then, please, enlighten us on how we should see such things.


*bump*
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #332 on: April 15, 2014, 02:51:23 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.

Putting words in my mouth again, PtA, with your presumption, of which you have ample supply. I simply asked a straight question.
Putting words into other peoples' mouths is your game, LBK. As much as you may like to think that was a straight question, it is loaded with presumptions to which I will not submit myself.

More presumption. It's clear you've lost the case.
I'm not trying to win any "case". I think I have succeeded at accomplishing what I intended to accomplish, though. 8)

The only thing you've accomplished is to scurry away from legitimate questions raised in response to your pseudo-rhetoric.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #333 on: April 15, 2014, 03:02:31 AM »

Why must it be seen as a Mentos Jesus,

1. The bearded fellow in the tattoo is intended to be Jesus, according to the sources of the picture.

2. He is holding a packet of Mentos.

Simple.

But why must we be offended?

You think it's OK for the Son of God to be portrayed in such a crass and flippant manner?

I didn't say it's okay, so please don't put words into my mouth. It's bad form. ;) I'm asking what good it does to get so offended by it.


That little squiggly line...at the end of the sentence......you know, this one ?

It means a question is being asked, not a statement inserted into your mouth.

A question you did not answer.
And I'm not going to answer it, for it's loaded with the assumption that I said something I didn't say.

Putting words in my mouth again, PtA, with your presumption, of which you have ample supply. I simply asked a straight question.
Putting words into other peoples' mouths is your game, LBK. As much as you may like to think that was a straight question, it is loaded with presumptions to which I will not submit myself.

More presumption. It's clear you've lost the case.
I'm not trying to win any "case". I think I have succeeded at accomplishing what I intended to accomplish, though. 8)

The only thing you've accomplished is to scurry away from legitimate questions raised in response to your pseudo-rhetoric.
LBK, until you first answer my questions or engage my criticism of your point of view, I'm not going to answer your questions.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #334 on: April 15, 2014, 03:10:54 AM »
I've already answered your questions. Go back and read my posts, which you seem to have missed in your eagerness to score rhetorical points.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #335 on: April 15, 2014, 03:15:07 AM »
dogmatism like

Murder, cannibalism and  genocide are wrong, and thus glorying them in artwork is at the least distasteful and at the most offensive?


or is that excessive and unwarranted?
When you won't explain why we should find such artwork offensive except by repeating your same old assertion, then yes it is excessive and unwarranted dogmatism.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 03:18:05 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #336 on: April 15, 2014, 03:16:19 AM »
I've already answered your questions. Go back and read my posts, which you seem to have missed in your eagerness to score rhetorical points.
No, you have not.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #337 on: April 15, 2014, 03:21:51 AM »
I've already answered your questions. Go back and read my posts, which you seem to have missed in your eagerness to score rhetorical points.
No, you have not.

Allow me to remind you: Reply #308.

So, now, how about answering some of my questions?

EDIT: and the questions asked of you by DeniseDenise, out of common courtesy?

« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 03:32:17 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #338 on: April 15, 2014, 03:48:54 AM »
I've already answered your questions. Go back and read my posts, which you seem to have missed in your eagerness to score rhetorical points.
No, you have not.

Allow me to remind you: Reply #308.

So, now, how about answering some of my questions?

EDIT: and the questions asked of you by DeniseDenise, out of common courtesy?


1. You only answered the question about why we should see the image as a Mentos Jesus. You did not answer my question about why we should find this offensive except with a loaded question of your own. That's not an answer.
2. I don't find Denise's answers to my questions satisfactory, so I'm not answering her questions. If that bothers her, let her take that up with me.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #339 on: April 15, 2014, 03:58:10 AM »
Quote
You did not answer my question about why we should find this offensive except with a loaded question of your own. That's not an answer.

If you cannot fathom why reducing the Son of God to a cheesy, kitschy cartoon character with a tube of mints in his hand should be offensive and disrespectful to those who call themselves Christian, then your problem is much bigger than I thought.

Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #340 on: April 15, 2014, 04:15:06 AM »
Well, can we at least all agree on one thing?: Tattoos of pigs and pigs with tattoos are anathema!


Selam
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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #341 on: April 15, 2014, 04:45:03 AM »
Well, can we at least all agree on one thing?: Tattoos of pigs and pigs with tattoos are anathema!


Selam

It's all in the declaration of intent:





And the steadiness of hand:

'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #342 on: April 15, 2014, 08:48:38 AM »
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #343 on: April 15, 2014, 08:56:43 AM »

2. I don't find Denise's answers to my questions satisfactory, so I'm not answering her questions. If that bothers her, let her take that up with me.

Dear Sir,

I have answered each and every question posed of me during this discussion. However I was not given the courtesy of being able to see your position at all.

I cannot find your answers satisfactory or unsatisfactory, due to their simply being absent. It does not bother me per se, since that clearly indicates you don't have an actual answer to give.

However, please do note that discussion or debate where one party decides they do not like the answers given by the other party, and thus refuses to give a proper rebuttal or any sort of rebuttal proper or not other than 'I don't like that, so i am taking myself off home now'
generally would mean that person in essence 'loses' the debate or discussion.

Which is not surprising, considering you were discussing merely to amuse yourself, and when it ceased to be the triumphal amusement you assumed....you left.

Have a lovely day.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Deep Roots

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #344 on: April 15, 2014, 09:38:52 AM »
Still waiting on that NT evidence against tattoos.
Peace.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #345 on: April 15, 2014, 10:00:56 AM »
Leviticus 19 (also where the no marking or tattooing verse is):
Quote
And the Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to all the congregation of the people of Israel, You shall be holy; for I the Lord your God am holy

Matthew 5:
Quote
17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

But then, Acts 15:
Quote
28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

So, IDK.  I'm not saying I won't ever get one, but I'm beyond the high school/college age of wanting moronic tattoos.  Also, I don't think God will say, "Sweet tats, bro," when he comes to judge the living and the dead.  What I can interpret from this is if you're a Jew who comes to believe in Christ, keep upholding the Law.  If you're a Gentile, the Law has been relaxed for you so that you can keep to a few major points.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 10:09:13 AM by hecma925 »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #346 on: April 15, 2014, 10:56:20 AM »

2. I don't find Denise's answers to my questions satisfactory, so I'm not answering her questions. If that bothers her, let her take that up with me.

Dear Sir,

I have answered each and every question posed of me during this discussion.
Yes, you have given answers to my questions, but I don't think you really understand what I'm trying to elicit from you. You keep giving basically the same unsatisfactory answer but in different ways. You've made the assertion that it's essentially self-evident that the glorification of a mass murderer in a tattoo should cause Christians offense, and all you've done in engaging my questions is repeat this assertion. But you keep missing the point. Why should we be offended by anything a person decides to have tattooed on his body? What good do we accomplish by being offended by such petty matters? Is it really that important?

However I was not given the courtesy of being able to see your position at all.
Why is it important that you know that? Do you think that my participation in this debate necessarily requires that I have a position of my own that I can assert and prove?

I cannot find your answers satisfactory or unsatisfactory, due to their simply being absent. It does not bother me per se, since that clearly indicates you don't have an actual answer to give.
You can believe whatever you want about me, but your belief doesn't make it truth.

However, please do note that discussion or debate where one party decides they do not like the answers given by the other party, and thus refuses to give a proper rebuttal or any sort of rebuttal proper or not other than 'I don't like that, so i am taking myself off home now'
generally would mean that person in essence 'loses' the debate or discussion.
No, it doesn't mean that, for this is not about winning or losing.

Which is not surprising, considering you were discussing merely to amuse yourself, and when it ceased to be the triumphal amusement you assumed....you left.
Misunderstanding me is one thing, but making up stories about me is another thing entirely--I advise you, then, to stop doing that. I was not posting here merely for my amusement. You see, Denise, the battle against unwarranted dogmatism is not a game for me, as many on this forum will tell you. As such, I engage debates frequently not to assert dogmas of my own but to hold up a mirror to the other participants. You said things on this thread that communicated the message that you cannot see how any true Christian can possibly NOT be offended by a tattoo "glorifying" a mass murderer like Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer. You judged me as being somehow deficient in my Christian faith and in need of prayer because I questioned you. Unless I have posted things to this thread that can actually be considered heresy, such as Arianism or a denial of the resurrection, what authority do you have to judge me as some kind of heretic for disagreeing with you? How does such a veiled ad hominem further clarify your reasoning?

Have a lovely day.
Another mistake you and so many other people on this forum have made about me is that my questioning of your point of view automatically means that I hold a contrary point of view. No it doesn't. I merely don't like BS assertions and unnecessary dogmatism. Can I be a bit pedantic about how I confront it? Absolutely! But it doesn't mean that I don't have a position of my own or that I do have one that's opposite yours. It just means that whatever point of view I do have I see as irrelevant to my goals for a debate.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 11:00:14 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #347 on: April 15, 2014, 11:02:04 AM »

2. I don't find Denise's answers to my questions satisfactory, so I'm not answering her questions. If that bothers her, let her take that up with me.

Dear Sir,

I have answered each and every question posed of me during this discussion.
Yes, you have given answers to my questions, but I don't think you really understand what I'm trying to elicit from you. You keep giving basically the same unsatisfactory answer but in different ways. You've made the assertion that it's essentially self-evident that the glorification of a mass murderer in a tattoo should cause Christians offense, and all you've done in engaging my questions is repeat this assertion. But you keep missing the point. Why should we be offended by anything a person decides to have tattooed on his body? What good do we accomplish by being offended by such petty matters? Is it really that important?

However I was not given the courtesy of being able to see your position at all.
Why is it important that you know that? Do you think that my participation in this debate necessarily requires that I have a position of my own that I can assert and prove?

I cannot find your answers satisfactory or unsatisfactory, due to their simply being absent. It does not bother me per se, since that clearly indicates you don't have an actual answer to give.
You can believe whatever you want about me, but your belief doesn't make it truth.

However, please do note that discussion or debate where one party decides they do not like the answers given by the other party, and thus refuses to give a proper rebuttal or any sort of rebuttal proper or not other than 'I don't like that, so i am taking myself off home now'
generally would mean that person in essence 'loses' the debate or discussion.
No, it doesn't mean that, for this is not about winning or losing.

Which is not surprising, considering you were discussing merely to amuse yourself, and when it ceased to be the triumphal amusement you assumed....you left.
Misunderstanding me is one thing, but making up stories about me is another thing entirely--I advise you, then, to stop doing that. I was not posting here merely for my amusement. You see, Denise, the battle against unwarranted dogmatism is not a game for me, as many on this forum will tell you. As such, I engage debates frequently not to assert dogmas of my own but to hold up a mirror to the other participants. You said things on this thread that communicated the message that you cannot see how any true Christian can possibly NOT be offended by a tattoo "glorifying" a mass murderer like Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer. You judged me as being somehow deficient in my Christian faith and in need of prayer because I questioned you. Unless I have posted things to this thread that can actually be considered heresy, such as Arianism or a denial of the resurrection, what authority do you have to judge me as some kind of heretic for disagreeing with you?

Have a lovely day.
Another mistake you and so many other people on this forum have made about me is that my questioning of your point of view automatically means that I hold a contrary point of view. No it doesn't. I merely don't like BS assertions and unnecessary dogmatism. Can I be a bit pedantic about how I confront it? Absolutely! But it doesn't mean that I don't have a position of my own or that I do have one that's opposite yours. It just means that whatever point of view I do have I see as irrelevant to my goals for a debate.


In other words...you debate...just to stir trouble.....fun hobby there. If you are not stating YOUR position...you are being argumentative to be argumentative.  Period.


And I did not question or Judge your Christianity at all.....go back and read my actual words.

If anything....I judged your -humanity-, since even the Godless and the non-Judeo Christians also abhor mass murders, cannibals and those who commit genocide.

Absolutely -zero- to do with Christianity at all, since I would call an athiest on glorifying those things just as much as I have called you on -accepting- the idea.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #348 on: April 15, 2014, 12:27:16 PM »
Quote
It just means that whatever point of view I do have I see as irrelevant to my goals for a debate.

Hoist by your own petard.

This is a forum dedicated to the discussion of Orthodoxy, PtA. It is neither your personal plaything, nor is it a Toastmasters event.

Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #349 on: April 15, 2014, 12:34:06 PM »
to participate in a 'discussion board, without ever showing your own personal self...some glimpse, but to exist there merely to refute any and every point made by others......without ever proposing your point....has got to be a lonely place'

The main joy most here get is -the interaction- with others....revealing parts of who we are...what brought us both to Orthodoxy and to the board...etc...

Even if it is a controlled release of info....its still 'getting to know people'.....as opposed to existing here to tell people they are wrong.

If that's all one does....why bother.


 :(
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #350 on: April 15, 2014, 12:49:17 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #351 on: April 15, 2014, 12:50:44 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.


Those drugs.....gives you flashbacks... :laugh:
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #352 on: April 15, 2014, 12:56:42 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.


Those drugs.....gives you flashbacks... :laugh:

The LSD thread hasn't been created....yet.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Alpo

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #353 on: April 15, 2014, 01:05:07 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.


Those drugs.....gives you flashbacks... :laugh:

The LSD thread hasn't been created....yet.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds! We need a thread about Progressive Rock
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline hecma925

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #354 on: April 15, 2014, 01:08:53 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.


Those drugs.....gives you flashbacks... :laugh:

The LSD thread hasn't been created....yet.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds! We need a thread about Progressive Rock

I hate that song.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Alpo

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #355 on: April 15, 2014, 01:12:57 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.


Those drugs.....gives you flashbacks... :laugh:

The LSD thread hasn't been created....yet.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds! We need a thread about Progressive Rock

I hate that song.

You prefer the drug?
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline hecma925

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #356 on: April 15, 2014, 01:14:00 PM »
Memories of the "Smoking Weed" thread assault me.


Those drugs.....gives you flashbacks... :laugh:

The LSD thread hasn't been created....yet.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds! We need a thread about Progressive Rock

I hate that song.

You prefer the drug?

I haven't tried it, but if it's anything like the song, I suppose I would hate it, too.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #357 on: April 15, 2014, 02:58:36 PM »

2. I don't find Denise's answers to my questions satisfactory, so I'm not answering her questions. If that bothers her, let her take that up with me.

Dear Sir,

I have answered each and every question posed of me during this discussion.
Yes, you have given answers to my questions, but I don't think you really understand what I'm trying to elicit from you. You keep giving basically the same unsatisfactory answer but in different ways. You've made the assertion that it's essentially self-evident that the glorification of a mass murderer in a tattoo should cause Christians offense, and all you've done in engaging my questions is repeat this assertion. But you keep missing the point. Why should we be offended by anything a person decides to have tattooed on his body? What good do we accomplish by being offended by such petty matters? Is it really that important?

However I was not given the courtesy of being able to see your position at all.
Why is it important that you know that? Do you think that my participation in this debate necessarily requires that I have a position of my own that I can assert and prove?

I cannot find your answers satisfactory or unsatisfactory, due to their simply being absent. It does not bother me per se, since that clearly indicates you don't have an actual answer to give.
You can believe whatever you want about me, but your belief doesn't make it truth.

However, please do note that discussion or debate where one party decides they do not like the answers given by the other party, and thus refuses to give a proper rebuttal or any sort of rebuttal proper or not other than 'I don't like that, so i am taking myself off home now'
generally would mean that person in essence 'loses' the debate or discussion.
No, it doesn't mean that, for this is not about winning or losing.

Which is not surprising, considering you were discussing merely to amuse yourself, and when it ceased to be the triumphal amusement you assumed....you left.
Misunderstanding me is one thing, but making up stories about me is another thing entirely--I advise you, then, to stop doing that. I was not posting here merely for my amusement. You see, Denise, the battle against unwarranted dogmatism is not a game for me, as many on this forum will tell you. As such, I engage debates frequently not to assert dogmas of my own but to hold up a mirror to the other participants. You said things on this thread that communicated the message that you cannot see how any true Christian can possibly NOT be offended by a tattoo "glorifying" a mass murderer like Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer. You judged me as being somehow deficient in my Christian faith and in need of prayer because I questioned you. Unless I have posted things to this thread that can actually be considered heresy, such as Arianism or a denial of the resurrection, what authority do you have to judge me as some kind of heretic for disagreeing with you?

Have a lovely day.
Another mistake you and so many other people on this forum have made about me is that my questioning of your point of view automatically means that I hold a contrary point of view. No it doesn't. I merely don't like BS assertions and unnecessary dogmatism. Can I be a bit pedantic about how I confront it? Absolutely! But it doesn't mean that I don't have a position of my own or that I do have one that's opposite yours. It just means that whatever point of view I do have I see as irrelevant to my goals for a debate.


In other words...you debate...just to stir trouble.....fun hobby there. If you are not stating YOUR position...you are being argumentative to be argumentative.  Period.


And I did not question or Judge your Christianity at all.....go back and read my actual words.

If anything....I judged your -humanity-, since even the Godless and the non-Judeo Christians also abhor mass murders, cannibals and those who commit genocide.

Absolutely -zero- to do with Christianity at all, since I would call an athiest on glorifying those things just as much as I have called you on -accepting- the idea.


1. The mirror I hold up shows a lot, such as how you will believe the fictions you create about me rather than the truth I tell about myself. Please don't do that.
2. Whether you judged my Christianity or my humanity doesn't matter. You judged me against standards you created. You have no authority to do that.
3. You evidently didn't read a single thing I said about about my point of view, for nowhere did I ever glorify any mass murderers. That is something you continue to read into my questions even though I have repeated to you that my questions are not to be read as advocating a point of view contrary to yours.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #358 on: April 15, 2014, 03:04:35 PM »
Quote
It just means that whatever point of view I do have I see as irrelevant to my goals for a debate.

Hoist by your own petard.

This is a forum dedicated to the discussion of Orthodoxy, PtA. It is neither your personal plaything, nor is it a Toastmasters event.


I know what this forum is about. It is a forum devoted to the discussion of Orthodox Christianity, not of LBKianity. You are free to post the truth as you understand it, and I am free to challenge you on your assertions. That's how this forum works.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #359 on: April 15, 2014, 03:07:25 PM »
It's a -discussion- board...not a refution board..

but -failing- to express your actual personal opinion....you are failing to discuss.

You appear to believe somehow that this is an effective way of participating here...quite likely in the vein of 'I shall show them their errors of logic'

What you fail to realise, is that by not expressing a choice...you don't -fail- to choose...you still choose...




'"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert Einstein
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.