Poll

Is it proper for an Orthodox Christian to get a tattoo?

It's fine, nothing wrong with it.
42 (22.6%)
They can if they want, but I wouldn't.
27 (14.5%)
Only in some circumstances.
23 (12.4%)
I don't think it's proper, no.
38 (20.4%)
It is absolutely, positively sinful!
15 (8.1%)
I'm not sure.
37 (19.9%)
None of the above.
4 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 186

Author Topic: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos  (Read 137270 times)

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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #180 on: March 27, 2014, 09:05:26 PM »
1,300-year-old Egyptian mummy had tattoo of Archangel Michael


http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/03/26/scientists-unearth-new-secrets-from-ancient-mummy/


Selam

Interesting, but the article doesn't say why any of them think it was the Archangel and not any other Michael, or why they even were sure it was a Christian usage.


From the article:

There was a sizable Christian population in Egypt in the 700s, perhaps close to a majority of the population,” said Maureen Tilley, professor of theology at Fordham University in New York. 

“Like Greeks and Romans across the Mediterranean, the portion of the population that was literate was fascinated by the shapes of letters and delighted in making designs with letters in names. Hence, we have the odd shape of the tattoo composed of the letters.”

Placing the name of a powerful heavenly protector on one's body by a tattoo or amulet was very common in antiquity, Tilley told Foxnews.com. “Christian women who were pregnant often placed amulets with divine or angelic names on bands on their abdomens to insure a safe delivery of their child,” she said.

“Placing the name on the inner thigh, as with this mummy, may have had some meaning for the hopes of childbirth or protection against sexual violation, as in ‘This body is claimed and protected.’ Michael is an obvious identity for a tattoo, as this is the most powerful of angels.”

Christian Gnostics, religious cultists in that era, were especially interested in the names and functions of intermediary beings between humans and the divine, Tilley noted.

The Gospel of Truth and the Book of Enoch were both popular among them and have much about an angel whose story sounds very much like that of Archangel Michael in many Christian stories, the angel who led the heavenly army against Satan and the Fallen Angels.”


Selam
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #181 on: March 27, 2014, 09:17:00 PM »
That still says 'they think it is...'

and not 'we believe it is, because there is this evidence of other tattooing, or other name talisman-ing, in this form.....'


Simply because gnostics in particular believed in the power of the name, and wore amulets....does not necessarily equate to 'tattooed onto them'

now it also doesn't not equate that....it's just not overwhelming 'evidence' in my opinion.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #182 on: March 27, 2014, 10:13:56 PM »
There isn't a single Canon, Church Father, or Bible verse that prohibits tattoos and until evidence from the aforementioned sources can be provided, I don't care what a bunch of anti-tattoo "genuine" or whatever Orthodox people say.

It's a matter of personal discernment. Tattoos shouldn't become a vanity, but at the same time, I see nothing wrong with them in moderation and done reasonably. Until you're willing to stop wearing all makeup, possess only one pair of clothing, and get rid of all your jewelry and non-essential adornment, you have no right to talk.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #183 on: March 27, 2014, 10:13:56 PM »
What's wrong with being content with wearing a baptismal cross?

Well for one it often gets in the way or becomes a liability at certain times.

I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks. You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

With a tattoo you can really never lose it, and it's lower maintenance.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #184 on: March 27, 2014, 10:19:07 PM »
There isn't a single Canon, Church Father, or Bible verse that prohibits tattoos and until evidence from the aforementioned sources can be provided, I don't care what a bunch of anti-tattoo "genuine" or whatever Orthodox people say.

It's a matter of personal discernment. Tattoos shouldn't become a vanity, but at the same time, I see nothing wrong with them in moderation and done reasonably. Until you're willing to stop wearing all makeup, possess only one pair of clothing, and get rid of all your jewelry and non-essential adornment, you have no right to talk.
To whom are you talking, James? Since this thread was resurrected a few days ago, no one has argued against the wearing of tattoos. So why the need to battle the windmills?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #185 on: March 27, 2014, 10:27:47 PM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 10:28:06 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #186 on: March 27, 2014, 10:33:26 PM »
That still says 'they think it is...'

and not 'we believe it is, because there is this evidence of other tattooing, or other name talisman-ing, in this form.....'


Simply because gnostics in particular believed in the power of the name, and wore amulets....does not necessarily equate to 'tattooed onto them'

now it also doesn't not equate that....it's just not overwhelming 'evidence' in my opinion.

I just found it interesting and thought it was appropriate for this thread. It doesn't verify or nullify my own personal opinion about tattoos.


Selam
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #187 on: March 27, 2014, 11:26:55 PM »
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.



What..your baptismal cross is iron?
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #188 on: March 28, 2014, 12:10:01 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #189 on: March 28, 2014, 12:14:16 AM »
What's wrong with being content with wearing a baptismal cross?

Well for one it often gets in the way or becomes a liability at certain times.

I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks. You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

With a tattoo you can really never lose it, and it's lower maintenance.

Didn't you just get an Orthodox Cross tatooed on your wrist with pictures to prove it?
Or was that someone else?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #190 on: March 28, 2014, 12:17:30 AM »
Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

My Cross doesn't have a pin.

Quote
Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative.

My Baptismal Cross is a $40, low-quality St. Olga Cross from the Joy of All Who Sorrow which carries more sentimental value and durability than physical. I'm not going to risk ruining it.

Quote
And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem.

I actually know several people whose chains have busted due to sleeping in them.

Quote
A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Again, tell that to my $40 Cross.

Quote
Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.

I never brought insults into this, nor did I bring up my own tattoo. But since you insist on bringing it up, then why don't you respond to my previous post? Cite me a single Bible verse, Canon, or Patristic source that prohibits tattoos. I've asked you this several times in the past and you've never responded to it. I believe even Peter once asked you, in Green text, to provide proof for your assertions. Until I see evidence that otherwise prohibits tattoos, I find no reason to deem it "unnecessary" nor to lament over it in guilt. It means much to me, helps me grow in my faith, and it's not vain because it was a gift given to me. Being socially taboo does not necessarily equate being religiously prohibited or evil.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #191 on: March 28, 2014, 12:17:30 AM »
There isn't a single Canon, Church Father, or Bible verse that prohibits tattoos and until evidence from the aforementioned sources can be provided, I don't care what a bunch of anti-tattoo "genuine" or whatever Orthodox people say.

It's a matter of personal discernment. Tattoos shouldn't become a vanity, but at the same time, I see nothing wrong with them in moderation and done reasonably. Until you're willing to stop wearing all makeup, possess only one pair of clothing, and get rid of all your jewelry and non-essential adornment, you have no right to talk.
To whom are you talking, James? Since this thread was resurrected a few days ago, no one has argued against the wearing of tattoos. So why the need to battle the windmills?

To whomever it may concern. I was just stirring the pot. I saw the topic had been resurrected and felt like making a statement.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #192 on: March 28, 2014, 12:22:18 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #193 on: March 28, 2014, 12:26:12 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:26:53 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #194 on: March 28, 2014, 12:29:28 AM »
Quote
My Cross doesn't have a pin.

No cross does. You've heard of safety pins, haven't you? They do come in suitably small sizes, and should be available at your local supermarket.

Quote
My Baptismal Cross is a $40, low-quality St. Olga Cross from the Joy of All Who Sorrow which carries more sentimental value and durability than physical. I'm not going to risk ruining it.

I've seen stainless steel crosses and even sterling silver crosses going for less than $40. Your excuses are pathetic.

Quote
I actually know several people whose chains have busted due to sleeping in them.

Nine times out of ten, it is not the chain that breaks, but the loop of the clasp which joins onto the chain if it is left unsoldered. A box-chain or snake chain is almost impossible to break.

Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #195 on: March 28, 2014, 12:31:09 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #196 on: March 28, 2014, 12:34:07 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
And you don't like anyone who challenges your self-proclaimed right to tell others how to live their lives. That much should be obvious from your posting history.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:35:15 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #197 on: March 28, 2014, 12:42:32 AM »
Your excuses are pathetic.
Read what you wrote. You are acting out of line.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #198 on: March 28, 2014, 12:42:53 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
And you don't like anyone who challenges your self-proclaimed right to tell others how to live their lives. That much should be obvious from your posting history.

Spare me your indignation.

James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #199 on: March 28, 2014, 12:46:04 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
And you don't like anyone who challenges your self-proclaimed right to tell others how to live their lives. That much should be obvious from your posting history.

Spare me your indignation.
Just matching your indignation with mine.

James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:47:21 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #200 on: March 28, 2014, 12:49:01 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
And you don't like anyone who challenges your self-proclaimed right to tell others how to live their lives. That much should be obvious from your posting history.

Spare me your indignation.
Just matching your indignation with mine.

James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

This is a public section of the forum, where all members are allowed to post.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #201 on: March 28, 2014, 12:50:06 AM »


James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

All other things aside....I was not aware we could post something here and then dictate the opinions given on that post.  Seems a bit difficult to stop folks from opining.

One can of course not accept that opinion, and not take it to heart, but to say 'i do not want that opinion', that is basically only possible by -not- opening one's self up to it by not posting.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #202 on: March 28, 2014, 12:51:43 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
And you don't like anyone who challenges your self-proclaimed right to tell others how to live their lives. That much should be obvious from your posting history.

Spare me your indignation.
Just matching your indignation with mine.

James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

This is a public section of the forum, where all members are allowed to post.
Yes, this is a public section of the forum, where all members are allowed to post. You are allowed to dictate to others how they are to live their lives, and I'm allowed to tell you to mind your own business. It works both ways, LBK.
Not all who wander are lost.

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #203 on: March 28, 2014, 12:53:26 AM »
What's wrong with being content with wearing a baptismal cross?

Well for one it often gets in the way or becomes a liability at certain times.

I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks. You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

With a tattoo you can really never lose it, and it's lower maintenance.

Or you can buy a simpler cross to wear regularly.  They make them out of wood, leather, prayer rope knots, etc.  It's been a long time since I wore a cross made of some sort of metal.  These days I wear a leather cross most often, but I have at least one of the other two types I mentioned.    
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #204 on: March 28, 2014, 12:54:21 AM »


James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

All other things aside....I was not aware we could post something here and then dictate the opinions given on that post.  Seems a bit difficult to stop folks from opining.

One can of course not accept that opinion, and not take it to heart, but to say 'i do not want that opinion', that is basically only possible by -not- opening one's self up to it by not posting.



Precisely, Denise. Precisely.

For someone to wish to dictate who can and cannot opine on a matter on a public forum is tantamount to censorship and an obstacle to free speech.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #205 on: March 28, 2014, 12:56:08 AM »


James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

All other things aside....I was not aware we could post something here and then dictate the opinions given on that post.  Seems a bit difficult to stop folks from opining.

One can of course not accept that opinion, and not take it to heart, but to say 'i do not want that opinion', that is basically only possible by -not- opening one's self up to it by not posting.



Precisely, Denise. Precisely.

For someone to wish to dictate who can and cannot opine on a matter on a public forum is tantamount to censorship and an obstacle to free speech.

You're being "stirred" by JamesRIt's the Lenten season, do not allow others to stir your passions.  Let JamesR be.   :)

To whomever it may concern. I was just stirring the pot. I saw the topic had been resurrected and felt like making a statement.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:57:41 AM by SolEX01 »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #206 on: March 28, 2014, 12:56:23 AM »


James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

All other things aside....I was not aware we could post something here and then dictate the opinions given on that post.  Seems a bit difficult to stop folks from opining.

One can of course not accept that opinion, and not take it to heart, but to say 'i do not want that opinion', that is basically only possible by -not- opening one's self up to it by not posting.



Precisely, Denise. Precisely.

For someone to wish to dictate who can and cannot opine on a matter on a public forum is tantamount to censorship and an obstacle to free speech.
No one's forbidding you to opine on the matter, LBK, so please don't raise this cry of censorship.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #207 on: March 28, 2014, 12:56:40 AM »
Quote
I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks.

Complete nonsense. If you're so concerned about your cross being damaged in such circumstances, then take it off its chain and pin it to the inside of your clothes.

Quote
You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

Gold alloys don't rust. Sterling silver doesn't rust. Neither does stainless steel, a material used at times for baptismal crosses as a less costly alternative. And millions upon millions of people wear their crosses to bed, without any problem. A good-quality box-chain or snake chain with soldered clasp joints will not break as a result of movement in sleep.

Admit it, James. You're clinging to flimsy excuses to "justify" your getting an unnecessary tattoo. You're fooling no-one.
And you, LBK, are devising flimsy excuses to justify intruding into business that is not yours to address. If James wants to get a tattoo, then let him get a tattoo. You aren't his mother, so stop acting like you are.

Flimsy excuse? Apart from the clear historical practice of Copts and OO getting small cross tattoos (to prevent them from being mistaken for Moslems, as well as a courageous proclamation of their faith in oppressive societies), Orthodoxy has unequivocally frowned upon this form of "decoration".
But if James wants to get a tattoo, how is that any of your damn business? He clearly doesn't want your opinion on the matter.

He doesn't want anyone's opinion on any matter, if it contradicts his views. That much should be obvious from his posting history.
And you don't like anyone who challenges your self-proclaimed right to tell others how to live their lives. That much should be obvious from your posting history.

Spare me your indignation.
Just matching your indignation with mine.

James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

This is a public section of the forum, where all members are allowed to post.
Yes, this is a public section of the forum, where all members are allowed to post. You are allowed to dictate to others how they are to live their lives, and I'm allowed to tell you to mind your own business. It works both ways, LBK.

When someone of his own free will posts on matters of a personal nature, then he has no right to dictate who can and cannot respond to him.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #208 on: March 28, 2014, 12:57:44 AM »


James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

All other things aside....I was not aware we could post something here and then dictate the opinions given on that post.  Seems a bit difficult to stop folks from opining.

One can of course not accept that opinion, and not take it to heart, but to say 'i do not want that opinion', that is basically only possible by -not- opening one's self up to it by not posting.



Precisely, Denise. Precisely.

For someone to wish to dictate who can and cannot opine on a matter on a public forum is tantamount to censorship and an obstacle to free speech.
No one's forbidding you to opine on the matter, LBK, so please don't raise this cry of censorship.

Ahem.

he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.


Your words, PtA.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #209 on: March 28, 2014, 01:06:00 AM »


James' acquisition of a tattoo is hardly private knowledge. It was he who posted about it, he who stated the reason behind getting it (which would be a matter most people would want to keep to themselves), and he posted a picture of it for all the world to see.
That fact doesn't matter. What does matter is that he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.

All other things aside....I was not aware we could post something here and then dictate the opinions given on that post.  Seems a bit difficult to stop folks from opining.

One can of course not accept that opinion, and not take it to heart, but to say 'i do not want that opinion', that is basically only possible by -not- opening one's self up to it by not posting.



Precisely, Denise. Precisely.

For someone to wish to dictate who can and cannot opine on a matter on a public forum is tantamount to censorship and an obstacle to free speech.
No one's forbidding you to opine on the matter, LBK, so please don't raise this cry of censorship.

Ahem.

he also stated very explicitly that he doesn't want your opinion on his choice.


Your words, PtA.

Yes, my words exactly. I didn't speak as a moderator--I spoke merely as another poster--so those words don't bear the authority of a moderator. I also did not forbid you from doing anything--I could not, since everything you did was within the rules of the forum. I was just telling you that James didn't want your opinion, so for you to give it to him and berate him for rejecting it, even though you had every license within the rules of this forum to do so, was most uncalled for and an improper intrusion into his personal life. Again, I'm speaking this only as another poster. I don't mean for any of this to have the authority of a moderator, so you have no reason whatsoever to cry "CENSORSHIP!" Your rights are not being impinged upon.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 01:08:04 AM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #210 on: March 28, 2014, 01:09:10 AM »
Quote
Yes, my words exactly. I didn't speak as a moderator--I spoke merely as another poster--so those words don't bear the authority of a moderator. I also did not forbid you from doing anything--I could not, since everything you did was within the rules of the forum. I was just telling you that James didn't want your opinion, so for you to give it to him and berate him for rejecting it, even though you had every license within the rules of this forum to do so, was most uncalled for and an improper intrusion into his personal life. Again, I'm speaking this only as another poster. I don't mean for any of this to have the authority of a moderator, so you have no reason whatsoever to cry "CENSORSHIP!" Your rights are not being impinged upon.

If James doesn't want personal matters aired in public, and doesn't want to hear opinions which might go against what he wants to hear, then he only needs to refrain from posting about them. Simple.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #211 on: March 28, 2014, 01:11:34 AM »
Quote
Yes, my words exactly. I didn't speak as a moderator--I spoke merely as another poster--so those words don't bear the authority of a moderator. I also did not forbid you from doing anything--I could not, since everything you did was within the rules of the forum. I was just telling you that James didn't want your opinion, so for you to give it to him and berate him for rejecting it, even though you had every license within the rules of this forum to do so, was most uncalled for and an improper intrusion into his personal life. Again, I'm speaking this only as another poster. I don't mean for any of this to have the authority of a moderator, so you have no reason whatsoever to cry "CENSORSHIP!" Your rights are not being impinged upon.

If James doesn't want personal matters aired in public, and doesn't want to hear opinions which might go against what he wants to hear, then he only needs to refrain from posting about them. Simple.

What does one do with posters who lack tact, yet abide by the rules of this forum?   ???  Best thing is just ignore them.

Offline Maria

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #212 on: March 28, 2014, 01:12:30 AM »
What's wrong with being content with wearing a baptismal cross?

Well for one it often gets in the way or becomes a liability at certain times.

I cannot wear it while doing manual labour due to the risk of it getting broken; same goes for sports and amusement parks. You also cannot wear it in the shower or wear it to bed due to the risk of it breaking or getting rust.

With a tattoo you can really never lose it, and it's lower maintenance.

Or you can buy a simpler cross to wear regularly.  They make them out of wood, leather, prayer rope knots, etc.  It's been a long time since I wore a cross made of some sort of metal.  These days I wear a leather cross most often, but I have at least one of the other two types I mentioned.    

Tell me more. I am open to ideas. My gold cross makes me itch, so I wear it OVER my clothes when I attend Holy Services, but I was told that it should be worn UNDER the clothes.

I used to pin it to my shirt, but then once it went through the washing machine by accident. Not a good idea. Well, I guess everything got blessed in that washing cycle.  :angel:
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 01:15:03 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #213 on: March 28, 2014, 01:12:41 AM »
Quote
Yes, my words exactly. I didn't speak as a moderator--I spoke merely as another poster--so those words don't bear the authority of a moderator. I also did not forbid you from doing anything--I could not, since everything you did was within the rules of the forum. I was just telling you that James didn't want your opinion, so for you to give it to him and berate him for rejecting it, even though you had every license within the rules of this forum to do so, was most uncalled for and an improper intrusion into his personal life. Again, I'm speaking this only as another poster. I don't mean for any of this to have the authority of a moderator, so you have no reason whatsoever to cry "CENSORSHIP!" Your rights are not being impinged upon.

If James doesn't want personal matters aired in public, and doesn't want to hear opinions which might go against what he wants to hear, then he only needs to refrain from posting about them. Simple.

Yes, very simple indeed. And you can refrain from sharing your meddlesome opinions with him, and I can refrain from telling you to mind your own business.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Maria

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #214 on: March 28, 2014, 01:15:47 AM »
Quote
Yes, my words exactly. I didn't speak as a moderator--I spoke merely as another poster--so those words don't bear the authority of a moderator. I also did not forbid you from doing anything--I could not, since everything you did was within the rules of the forum. I was just telling you that James didn't want your opinion, so for you to give it to him and berate him for rejecting it, even though you had every license within the rules of this forum to do so, was most uncalled for and an improper intrusion into his personal life. Again, I'm speaking this only as another poster. I don't mean for any of this to have the authority of a moderator, so you have no reason whatsoever to cry "CENSORSHIP!" Your rights are not being impinged upon.

If James doesn't want personal matters aired in public, and doesn't want to hear opinions which might go against what he wants to hear, then he only needs to refrain from posting about them. Simple.

Yes, very simple indeed. And you can refrain from sharing your meddlesome opinions with him, and I can refrain from telling you to mind your own business.

You two argue like brother and sister.

Glasses of water all around.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 01:19:49 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #215 on: March 28, 2014, 01:19:32 AM »
This exchange is an embarrassment and should not be on the public fora.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 01:19:46 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Maria

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #216 on: March 28, 2014, 01:21:21 AM »
This exchange is an embarrassment and should not be on the public fora.

Definitely not Lenten reading material.

Now I was just reading my 5 pounder, the Homilies of St. Gregory Palamas on the Sunday of the Holy Cross. This is a huge sermon. It must have taken about an hour to deliver.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Theophania

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #217 on: March 28, 2014, 01:21:32 AM »
Operation: Stir Pot was a success.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #218 on: March 28, 2014, 01:29:05 AM »
Tell me more. I am open to ideas.

I have a couple of leather crosses on a cord.  They look like this:



I also have a wooden crucifix, hand-carved, from the Holy Mountain, and a knotted cross similar to, but smaller than, this:

Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #219 on: March 28, 2014, 01:30:21 AM »
Operation: Stir Pot was a success.

If only the pot came with food...I'm hungry!
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline nicodemus144

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #220 on: March 28, 2014, 01:31:58 AM »
those are very nice, mor. thank you for sharing.
“Does our law judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing?” -John 7:51 (NKJV)

I was investigating Orthodox Christianity.

Offline LBK

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #221 on: March 28, 2014, 01:35:51 AM »
This exchange is an embarrassment and should not be on the public fora.

Definitely not Lenten reading material.

Now I was just reading my 5 pounder, the Homilies of St. Gregory Palamas on the Sunday of the Holy Cross. This is a huge sermon. It must have taken about an hour to deliver.

But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. (Matt. 6: 17-18)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #222 on: March 28, 2014, 01:37:54 AM »
those are very nice, mor. thank you for sharing.

Anytime!  I forgot to mention that these sorts of crosses are usually inexpensive and, in my experience, quite durable. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #223 on: March 28, 2014, 01:38:58 AM »
Operation: Stir Pot was a success.

If only the pot came with food...I'm hungry!


Pot Noodle     :laugh:


(google if you are not from the UK)
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Maria

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Re: Orthodox Christians and Tattoos
« Reply #224 on: March 28, 2014, 01:40:46 AM »
those are very nice, mor. thank you for sharing.

Anytime!  I forgot to mention that these sorts of crosses are usually inexpensive and, in my experience, quite durable. 

Thank you very much.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.