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Author Topic: The New Testament of The Beast  (Read 1771 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2015, 08:52:31 PM »

They were written by a couple of weirdos with too much time on their hands.  Those are a different kind of weirdos though.  In modern day, those weirdos go create ISIS and kill lots of people.
Why then the mainstream media claims that they are genuine?
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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2015, 09:24:28 PM »

Those were definitely wrong.
Why then mainstream media claims that they are genuine?

You missed the part of your post that offers links to those claims.
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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2015, 09:40:50 PM »

They were written by a couple of weirdos with too much time on their hands.  Those are a different kind of weirdos though.  In modern day, those weirdos go create ISIS and kill lots of people.
Why then the mainstream media claims that they are genuine?
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is historical fact, put together by two megalomaniacs, Hitler and Stalin. I have no idea what that has to do with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which is nothing but a poorly cobbled together fake document meant to stir up animosity against the Jews. They have nothing to do with each other.
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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2015, 09:55:36 PM »

I think they were written by a weirdo with too much time on his hands. In modern day, such people whittle away their time doing things like trolling 4chan or photo-shopping naked celebrity pics.
And Molotov-Ribbentrop protocols?

Someone's getting tetchy that his thread isn't being taken seriously.  Roll Eyes

Starved of attention, are you, Simkins?
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« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2015, 10:10:11 PM »

I'm happy to have my autographed copy of Protocols of the Elders of Zion.  
An interesting read, BTW.

I put it in the same category as The Satanic Rituals by Anton Szandor LaVey.
La Vey was just dressing up his hedonistic atheism in language designed to tweak the nose of the then-nascent Religious Right. The authors of the Protocols were genuinely out to foment hate against Jews (well, at least Krushevan was, I suppose Nilus could have been just a mentally ill patsy who actually believed what he was saying).

I have read neither one of these books. I am a curious fellow, but I am not curious enough to sully my soul and insult my intelligence.
Same here. I've mostly just read of them.
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« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2015, 11:23:22 PM »

I think they were written by a weirdo with too much time on his hands. In modern day, such people whittle away their time doing things like trolling 4chan or photo-shopping naked celebrity pics.
And Molotov-Ribbentrop protocols?

Someone's getting tetchy that his thread isn't being taken seriously.  Roll Eyes

Starved of attention, are you, Simkins?

No one paid attention to his skiing or eating lunch videos.
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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2015, 11:36:51 PM »

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is historical fact, put together by two megalomaniacs, Hitler and Stalin. I have no idea what that has to do with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which is nothing but a poorly cobbled together fake document meant to stir up animosity against the Jews. They have nothing to do with each other.
You never heard of the secret protocol of the pact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol

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« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2015, 12:16:49 AM »

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is historical fact, put together by two megalomaniacs, Hitler and Stalin. I have no idea what that has to do with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which is nothing but a poorly cobbled together fake document meant to stir up animosity against the Jews. They have nothing to do with each other.
You never heard of the secret protocol of the pact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol


What's your point? Nations make backdoor deals all the time.


What a shock! Hitler and Stalin were bad people!
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« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2015, 12:26:46 AM »

What's your point?
My point is that you have no more proof of the authenticity of that protocol than you have of the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2015, 12:27:31 AM »

For the real conspiracy theorist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_Transfer_Protocol
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« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2015, 12:51:45 AM »

What's your point?
My point is that you have no more proof of the authenticity of that protocol than you have of the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
We have the Secret Protocol signed in Molotov and Ribbentrop's own hands. The PoEZ is half plagiarized from Maurice Joly and half "accounts" from the known forger and liar, Hermann Goedsche.

There is no positive reason to think it's real and good reason to think it's fake.
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« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2015, 01:03:32 AM »

We have the Secret Protocol signed in Molotov and Ribbentrop's own hands.
Nobody has the original of the protocol.
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« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2015, 01:56:32 AM »

We have the Secret Protocol signed in Molotov and Ribbentrop's own hands.
Nobody has the original of the protocol.


Well if you're suggesting they signed a copy, they're still admitting to it. Wink
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« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2015, 02:04:08 AM »

We have the Secret Protocol signed in Molotov and Ribbentrop's own hands.
Nobody has the original of the protocol.

"And why did he only show us a photocopy of the short form his birth certificate?!"

Why would an Orthodox Christian buy into Soviet propaganda? Are you also a black Klansman?
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« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2015, 02:05:39 AM »

We have the Secret Protocol signed in Molotov and Ribbentrop's own hands.
Nobody has the original of the protocol.


Well if you're suggesting they signed a copy, they're still admitting to it. Wink
We have a photocopy of the signatures. The Moscow archives conveniently lost the originals at some point. Apparently Simkins wants to be a Birther.
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« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2015, 07:30:08 AM »

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is historical fact, put together by two megalomaniacs, Hitler and Stalin. I have no idea what that has to do with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which is nothing but a poorly cobbled together fake document meant to stir up animosity against the Jews. They have nothing to do with each other.
You never heard of the secret protocol of the pact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol



If it's secret, how do you know about it?
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« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2015, 08:31:19 AM »

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is historical fact, put together by two megalomaniacs, Hitler and Stalin. I have no idea what that has to do with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which is nothing but a poorly cobbled together fake document meant to stir up animosity against the Jews. They have nothing to do with each other.
You never heard of the secret protocol of the pact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol



If it's secret, how do you know about it?

Sssssh! He got it from Wikipedia!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2015, 03:17:35 PM »

Well if you're suggesting they signed a copy, they're still admitting to it. Wink
If something is signed - it is already an original document. No such document exist. And copies appeared many years after the pact.
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« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2015, 04:12:46 PM »

Well if you're suggesting they signed a copy, they're still admitting to it. Wink
If something is signed - it is already an original document. No such document exist. And copies appeared many years after the pact.

You need a crash course on the nature of a signature. Might as well make use of that Wikipedia.
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« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2015, 04:25:26 PM »

Why would an Orthodox Christian buy into Soviet propaganda?
Of course, an Orthodox Christian must  buy only into American propaganda.
Even the proponents of the authenticity of the protocols admit:

Quote
For his part, Valentin Falin, then head of TASS, reiterated at a Moscow press conference that no original of the secret protocol has ever been found.4

In a strictly technical sense, Mr. Falin was right.

http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm
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« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2015, 07:23:57 PM »

Why would an Orthodox Christian buy into Soviet propaganda?
Of course, an Orthodox Christian must  buy only into American propaganda.
Even the proponents of the authenticity of the protocols admit:

Quote
For his part, Valentin Falin, then head of TASS, reiterated at a Moscow press conference that no original of the secret protocol has ever been found.4

In a strictly technical sense, Mr. Falin was right.

http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

You forgot the part where the article goes on to note why this is not really a problem.

Quote
As medieval and early modern specialists know, few important historical documents have survived in the original. Often we deal with copies of copies made at a later date; sometimes, documents are excerpted in commentaries, that is, secondary works, and other texts written many years after the fact. In other words, we often learn about texts from references to them in other texts. Naturally, the situation is much better for the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Yet any overview of references to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact contained in captured German correspondence makes the theory of a forgery extremely unlikely if downright impossible.

Emphasis mine.

Why are we even talking about this? I thought you were trying to defend the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2015, 07:40:37 PM »

Why would an Orthodox Christian buy into Soviet propaganda?
Of course, an Orthodox Christian must  buy only into American propaganda.
Even the proponents of the authenticity of the protocols admit:

Quote
For his part, Valentin Falin, then head of TASS, reiterated at a Moscow press conference that no original of the secret protocol has ever been found.4

In a strictly technical sense, Mr. Falin was right.

http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

If you think it was "American propaganda" (wouldn't it be British or French propaganda?) that the Soviet Union was keen to annex Eastern Europe in 1940, then you must think events subsequent to WWII, and the Iron Curtain, must be fabrications too.
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« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2015, 08:29:07 PM »

Quote
As medieval and early modern specialists know, few important historical documents have survived in the original. Often we deal with copies of copies made at a later date; sometimes, documents are excerpted in commentaries, that is, secondary works, and other texts written many years after the fact. In other words, we often learn about texts from references to them in other texts. Naturally, the situation is much better for the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Yet any overview of references to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact contained in captured German correspondence makes the theory of a forgery extremely unlikely if downright impossible.

Yeah. If we claim that no document can be "real" unless it survived in the original, what would that imply about the Bible?

That's a common atheist argument (keep in mind that for most American "New Atheists", evangelical Protestantism is their primary "target", so their primary focus is on refuting the Bible rather than a Church tradition with which most of them probably aren't familiar). Atheists often compare the Bible to the "telephone game" because they assume the original must differ significantly from current versions.
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« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2015, 09:45:33 AM »

What's your point?
My point is that you have no more proof of the authenticity of that protocol than you have of the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Oh Simkins... I'm afraid you wouldn't know "proof" if it slapped you in the face.
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« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2015, 05:17:11 PM »

You forgot the part where the article goes on to note why this is not really a problem.
You can't tell facts from idle talking. The fact is that there is no original, no carbon copy.

The exact verbosity used by the proponent of Molotov-Ribbentrop protocol authenticity can be used to argue for  the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2015, 05:55:58 PM »

You forgot the part where the article goes on to note why this is not really a problem.
You can't tell facts from idle talking. The fact is that there is no original, no carbon copy.

The exact verbosity used by the proponent of Molotov-Ribbentrop protocol authenticity can be used to argue for  the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
I can't figure out if you are trying to argue if the M-R protocol is a fraud, if the PotEoZ is real, or both. Either way, both the Russian government and the German goverment have declassified the the documents. Here you go.



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« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2015, 06:19:04 PM »

Since a similar image was in the link Simkins posted earlier, something tells me he's not going to fall for the old "signature" ruse.
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« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2015, 07:37:57 PM »

Since a similar image was in the link Simkins posted earlier, something tells me he's not going to fall for the old "signature" ruse.

He could the kind of person who would argue the existence of air while he is breathing it.
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« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2015, 08:44:33 PM »

both the Russian government and the German goverment have declassified the the documents. Here you go.
“Thou shalt not bear false witness”
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« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2015, 08:58:31 PM »

both the Russian government and the German goverment have declassified the the documents. Here you go.
“Thou shalt not bear false witness”
Oh, I see. Unless I provide you with the hard copy in person with the ghost of Stalin accompanying me to verify it, then I'm lying.  Roll Eyes

Well, I suppose if that is the burden of proof, then I contend that Peter the Great never existed, the Russians never fought the Nazis and Napoleon's army was never in Russia.
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« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2015, 09:19:07 PM »

You forgot the part where the article goes on to note why this is not really a problem.
You can't tell facts from idle talking. The fact is that there is no original, no carbon copy.

The exact verbosity used by the proponent of Molotov-Ribbentrop protocol authenticity can be used to argue for  the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
The article does what historians do to verify the existence of a document we don't have, they check for references in other documents. We have communiques from Ribbentrop himself talking about it.

The PoEZ, on the other hand, contains passages that are outright plagiarism from a novel and the description of the alleged meeting of Rabbis that drafted the PoEZ is from the pen of a known forger. The two simply don't compare at all. No serious scholar questions the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's existence while you won't find a reputable historian claiming that the PoEZ is real.
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« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2015, 03:04:22 PM »

Those were definitely wrong.
Why then mainstream media claims that they are genuine?

You missed the part of your post that offers links to those claims.

People here  denying Ribbentrop-Molotov pact? Were you both by any chance homeschooled?
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« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2015, 04:06:46 PM »

Oh, I see. Unless I provide you with the hard copy in person with the ghost of Stalin accompanying me to verify it, then I'm lying.  Roll Eyes
Here is the origin of the purported photocopy of the protocols

Quote
In 1943, as the archives of the German Foreign Office were being evacuated from Berlin because of the Allied air attacks, Reich Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop ordered the filming of the most important papers. The work was carried out by Paul Otto Schmidt, the chief interpreter of the Reich Foreign Office. Karl von Loesch, Schmidt's assistant, placed the films into boxes and buried them. Thus, these films survived the destruction of many important Foreign Office records carried out by the Nazis themselves at the close of the war. In late May 1945 Loesch met Lt. Col. R.C. Thomson, chief of the British documents team, and the so-called Loesch films became part of the Captured German Records project. The German-Russian treaties of 23 August 1939 and 28 September 1939, together with their secret protocols, were found in the films of Ribbentrop's working files.

http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

Therefore your statement

both the Russian government and the German goverment have declassified the the documents.

Is a lie.
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« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2015, 04:26:12 PM »

Those were definitely wrong.
Why then mainstream media claims that they are genuine?

You missed the part of your post that offers links to those claims.

People here  denying Ribbentrop-Molotov pact? Were you both by any chance homeschooled?
Only Simkins, who is on his quixotic crusade to prove Holy Russia was holy even when Stalin was running the show.
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« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2015, 04:38:10 PM »

Oh, I see. Unless I provide you with the hard copy in person with the ghost of Stalin accompanying me to verify it, then I'm lying.  Roll Eyes
Here is the origin of the purported photocopy of the protocols

Quote
In 1943, as the archives of the German Foreign Office were being evacuated from Berlin because of the Allied air attacks, Reich Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop ordered the filming of the most important papers. The work was carried out by Paul Otto Schmidt, the chief interpreter of the Reich Foreign Office. Karl von Loesch, Schmidt's assistant, placed the films into boxes and buried them. Thus, these films survived the destruction of many important Foreign Office records carried out by the Nazis themselves at the close of the war. In late May 1945 Loesch met Lt. Col. R.C. Thomson, chief of the British documents team, and the so-called Loesch films became part of the Captured German Records project. The German-Russian treaties of 23 August 1939 and 28 September 1939, together with their secret protocols, were found in the films of Ribbentrop's working files.

http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

Therefore your statement

both the Russian government and the German goverment have declassified the the documents.

Is a lie.
LOL! Have you been in a bubble since that document was released in 1989?  Russia declassified the documents on August 17, 1992 and released a statement along with it stating that they felt it was the only means of self-defense that they had available.
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« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2015, 04:40:19 PM »

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« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2015, 01:11:09 AM »

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« Reply #82 on: Yesterday at 11:54:46 PM »

If you think it was "American propaganda" (wouldn't it be British or French propaganda?) that the Soviet Union was keen to annex Eastern Europe in 1940, then you must think events subsequent to WWII, and the Iron Curtain, must be fabrications too.
If you think that the protocols of the elders of Zion are not true you should think that the metropolitain corridors built in every major city are phantasies.
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« Reply #83 on: Today at 12:18:28 AM »

If you think it was "American propaganda" (wouldn't it be British or French propaganda?) that the Soviet Union was keen to annex Eastern Europe in 1940, then you must think events subsequent to WWII, and the Iron Curtain, must be fabrications too.
If you think that the protocols of the elders of Zion are not true you should think that the metropolitain corridors built in every major city are phantasies.

What?  Huh
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« Reply #84 on: Today at 12:34:26 AM »

If you think it was "American propaganda" (wouldn't it be British or French propaganda?) that the Soviet Union was keen to annex Eastern Europe in 1940, then you must think events subsequent to WWII, and the Iron Curtain, must be fabrications too.
If you think that the protocols of the elders of Zion are not true you should think that the metropolitain corridors built in every major city are phantasies.

What?  Huh

There's some sure int'restin' stuff goin' down on Planet Simkins ....
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« Reply #85 on: Today at 12:35:43 AM »

If you think it was "American propaganda" (wouldn't it be British or French propaganda?) that the Soviet Union was keen to annex Eastern Europe in 1940, then you must think events subsequent to WWII, and the Iron Curtain, must be fabrications too.
If you think that the protocols of the elders of Zion are not true you should think that the metropolitain corridors built in every major city are phantasies.

What?  Huh

There's some sure int'restin' stuff goin' down on Planet Simkins ....

Oh yeah. Smiley
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« Reply #86 on: Today at 12:42:59 AM »

What?  Huh
Check out the 9th protocol.
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« Reply #87 on: Today at 12:44:59 AM »

What?  Huh
Check out the 9th protocol.

Sorry, I'm not into neo-Nazi forgeries.

Check out naptime, or something.
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