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Author Topic: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?  (Read 34072 times) Average Rating: 3
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« Reply #1125 on: September 04, 2014, 03:05:02 PM »



And how is that one iota different than what I said? They let their brother Bishop know they are going to visit. 

Let is not ask


I let you know that I am taking your car for a spin.

vs

I ask you if I can take your car for a spin



Again...what is being said is that while your 'let them know' may pass for permission because the parties are all on good terms, it -should- be a request not a notification.

Wow..... you must have lots of time on your hands  Smiley

I am certain there is not the level of hostility involved in the procedure that your concern implies. I am certain this is pro forma in the cases we are familiar with... 


We get it, Marc.  You think Metropolitan Jonah is your BFF and don't like it when people even appear to be criticising him.  But your feelings aside, Orthodox canonical tradition is not the way you describe it, and I'm sure Metropolitan Jonah knows that.  What you describe, if true, is an exception to the norm at best.  You can post pictures of famous cinematic Pharisees all you want, but the rest of us have the canons and the lived, consistently practiced tradition of most bishops on earth on our side.  All you've got is your descending spiral of spiteful, futile, and uninformed self-repetition. 



I actually have no dog in the Met Jonah fight. I see him regularly so I get to ask him stuff. I have far stronger opinions concerning Met Herman.

You are fishing around for an issue I think... You are harping on something inconsequential.

But if you like I can ask him about the process. I am sure he will serve at my Church again soon.

Here is how I will word the question. If you want to amend it please post suggestions

"Would you mind telling me about the process of a Bishop visiting a jurisdiction not his?. What is the usual communication between Bishops when planning a visit. It is it a Pro-Forma request or is there something more serious involved?"  


AHA.....

Is it a Pro-forma REQUEST.

REQUEST.



request = ask for permission


contrast this with what you kept arguing is the case

Quote
They let their brother Bishop know they are going to visit. 
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Marc1152
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« Reply #1126 on: September 04, 2014, 03:09:12 PM »


I actually have no dog in the Met Jonah fight. I see him regularly so I get to ask him stuff. I have far stronger opinions concerning Met Herman.

You are fishing around for an issue I think... You are harping on something inconsequential.

But if you like I can ask him about the process. I am sure he will serve at my Church again soon.

Here is how I will word the question. If you want to amend it please post suggestions

"Would you mind telling me about the process of a Bishop visiting a jurisdiction not his?. What is the usual communication between Bishops when planning a visit. It is it a Pro-Forma request or is there something more serious involved?"  

BUWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  I don't think you going to find anyone here that believes that, whether they are a Met Jonah supporter or no.

I am offended by many of the cheap shots leveled against him. But I have no strong attachment to him. I know several people who go out of their way to attend his weekly liturgy and I know a good six or seven people who have become his spiritual children. I also know very well two men who will become monks and live at his new Monastery.I have demonstrated no similar level of interest.

I have contact with him because of where I alter serve and because I have  training on how to serve a Bishop at a Hierarchical Liturgy, which is rather complicated.  

I wish him the best. I like serving with him. I think his sermons are excellent and he is a friendly guy. I have very little emotional investment in the controversy. I rallied to the defense of Met Herman when people were taking similar cheap shots even though I think he should be prosecuted.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 03:21:47 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #1127 on: September 04, 2014, 03:12:01 PM »

Tis hard to say you have little emotional investment when you have been arguing hard and being his unofficial spokesman on the forum for 26 pages.

I don't have anything against Met. Jonah, but lets at least be honest. You have a dog bishop in this fight, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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« Reply #1128 on: September 04, 2014, 03:12:34 PM »



And how is that one iota different than what I said? They let their brother Bishop know they are going to visit. 

Let is not ask


I let you know that I am taking your car for a spin.

vs

I ask you if I can take your car for a spin



Again...what is being said is that while your 'let them know' may pass for permission because the parties are all on good terms, it -should- be a request not a notification.

Wow..... you must have lots of time on your hands  Smiley

I am certain there is not the level of hostility involved in the procedure that your concern implies. I am certain this is pro forma in the cases we are familiar with... 


We get it, Marc.  You think Metropolitan Jonah is your BFF and don't like it when people even appear to be criticising him.  But your feelings aside, Orthodox canonical tradition is not the way you describe it, and I'm sure Metropolitan Jonah knows that.  What you describe, if true, is an exception to the norm at best.  You can post pictures of famous cinematic Pharisees all you want, but the rest of us have the canons and the lived, consistently practiced tradition of most bishops on earth on our side.  All you've got is your descending spiral of spiteful, futile, and uninformed self-repetition. 



I actually have no dog in the Met Jonah fight. I see him regularly so I get to ask him stuff. I have far stronger opinions concerning Met Herman.

You are fishing around for an issue I think... You are harping on something inconsequential.

But if you like I can ask him about the process. I am sure he will serve at my Church again soon.

Here is how I will word the question. If you want to amend it please post suggestions

"Would you mind telling me about the process of a Bishop visiting a jurisdiction not his?. What is the usual communication between Bishops when planning a visit. It is it a Pro-Forma request or is there something more serious involved?"  


AHA.....

Is it a Pro-forma REQUEST.

REQUEST.



request = ask for permission


contrast this with what you kept arguing is the case

Quote
They let their brother Bishop know they are going to visit. 

Wow............. ummmmm...Youre splitting hairs. I have no idea why.

Permission is Pro Forma... It's no big deal. They let them know they are visiting. They must have permission to visit.... Never denied...Pro Forma.

Get a life
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« Reply #1129 on: September 04, 2014, 03:20:07 PM »

Tis hard to say you have little emotional investment when you have been arguing hard and being his unofficial spokesman on the forum for 26 pages.

I don't have anything against Met. Jonah, but lets at least be honest. You have a dog bishop in this fight, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Then let me set the record straight.. I defend Bishops from cheap shots and rumor mongering and character assassination as a matter of course.I did the same when Met Herman was up to bat.

I dont go out of my way, like many people do, to see Met Jonah. I dont go to his weekly Liturgy or his bible study and would not become one of his spiritual children.. I like him. I serve with him and see him often so when there is a question I ask him. It is easily done. I sit with him at the lunch table ( Trapeeza) and can bring stuff up if I chose or I learn stuff when I listen to the conversation.

     
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« Reply #1130 on: November 25, 2014, 10:12:37 AM »

What is the story behind this new petition?

https://www.change.org/p/orthodox-church-in-america-please-canonically-release-metropolitan-jonah

As I understand it the OCA can only release a cleric (priest or hierarch) if another canonical jurisdiction makes a request.  So far there is no evidence that that any other church has made a request just rumours.
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« Reply #1131 on: November 25, 2014, 10:41:04 AM »

What is the story behind this new petition?

https://www.change.org/p/orthodox-church-in-america-please-canonically-release-metropolitan-jonah

As I understand it the OCA can only release a cleric (priest or hierarch) if another canonical jurisdiction makes a request.  So far there is no evidence that that any other church has made a request just rumours.

That is not the hold up. Met Jonah lives next door to the OCA Cathedral in DC. The OCA rightly does not want him living next door if he is in a different jurisdiction. As soon as they can rent or buy a place for the new Monastery all the requirements the OCA has wanted will be in place.
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« Reply #1132 on: November 25, 2014, 11:29:26 AM »

What is the story behind this new petition?

https://www.change.org/p/orthodox-church-in-america-please-canonically-release-metropolitan-jonah

As I understand it the OCA can only release a cleric (priest or hierarch) if another canonical jurisdiction makes a request.  So far there is no evidence that that any other church has made a request just rumours.

That is not the hold up. Met Jonah lives next door to the OCA Cathedral in DC. The OCA rightly does not want him living next door if he is in a different jurisdiction. As soon as they can rent or buy a place for the new Monastery all the requirements the OCA has wanted will be in place.

OK, I understand but who is the "they" in your sentence above buying a monastery?
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« Reply #1133 on: November 25, 2014, 12:05:14 PM »

Can this sad, never ending story get any more peculiar? Look, if you want to write the OCA a nice letter regarding this on your own by all means do so, but this method is absurd.

Can you imagine the outcry here or, better yet, on another to be unnamed Orthodox discussion group if a number of disaffected people used Change.org and other social media to petition the church  for something gay related or some other hot button cause?

If he is released, it will happen when the OCA Synod determines it is appropriate and in the mutual interest of both parties. Petitions, by themselves, will not advance the cause.

For that matter, if you feel so strongly that the Metropolitan has been, and continues to be treated poorly or has been "wronged" by the OCA,  vote with your feet. Let the OCA know politely, in writing why you are leaving and where you are going.  If enough do so, perhaps things might change. But be careful what you wish for. If you know the history of Orthodoxy in the USA, voting with one's feet is a time honored tradition and things do not always turn out as imagined or hoped for. Just look around any Pennsylvania town to verify that.

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« Reply #1134 on: November 25, 2014, 12:44:27 PM »

What is the story behind this new petition?

https://www.change.org/p/orthodox-church-in-america-please-canonically-release-metropolitan-jonah

As I understand it the OCA can only release a cleric (priest or hierarch) if another canonical jurisdiction makes a request.  So far there is no evidence that that any other church has made a request just rumours.

That is not the hold up. Met Jonah lives next door to the OCA Cathedral in DC. The OCA rightly does not want him living next door if he is in a different jurisdiction. As soon as they can rent or buy a place for the new Monastery all the requirements the OCA has wanted will be in place.

If it is true that the OCA Holy Synod and Metropolitan Jonah have reached an agreement that is contingent on that new monastery, then there is no earthly reason for the new petition. Correct?
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« Reply #1135 on: November 25, 2014, 12:47:50 PM »


... if you feel so strongly that the Metropolitan has been, and continues to be treated poorly or has been "wronged" by the OCA,  vote with your feet. Let the OCA know politely, in writing why you are leaving and where you are going." 

That has already happened. Unfortunately, many of these folks cannot keep from publicly assailing the OCA with all sorts of accusations, innuendo and gossip. I can only surmise that they are trying to justify voting with their feet, something which has been called a not-so-nice appellation of schism.
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« Reply #1136 on: November 25, 2014, 12:56:38 PM »

What is the story behind this new petition?

https://www.change.org/p/orthodox-church-in-america-please-canonically-release-metropolitan-jonah

As I understand it the OCA can only release a cleric (priest or hierarch) if another canonical jurisdiction makes a request.  So far there is no evidence that that any other church has made a request just rumours.

That is not the hold up. Met Jonah lives next door to the OCA Cathedral in DC. The OCA rightly does not want him living next door if he is in a different jurisdiction. As soon as they can rent or buy a place for the new Monastery all the requirements the OCA has wanted will be in place.

OK, I understand but who is the "they" in your sentence above buying a monastery?

Met Jonah and the group of monks and others who intend to become monks.

The money is in place but the place is not yet in place.
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« Reply #1137 on: November 25, 2014, 01:00:11 PM »

What is the story behind this new petition?

https://www.change.org/p/orthodox-church-in-america-please-canonically-release-metropolitan-jonah

As I understand it the OCA can only release a cleric (priest or hierarch) if another canonical jurisdiction makes a request.  So far there is no evidence that that any other church has made a request just rumours.

That is not the hold up. Met Jonah lives next door to the OCA Cathedral in DC. The OCA rightly does not want him living next door if he is in a different jurisdiction. As soon as they can rent or buy a place for the new Monastery all the requirements the OCA has wanted will be in place.

If it is true that the OCA Holy Synod and Metropolitan Jonah have reached an agreement that is contingent on that new monastery, then there is no earthly reason for the new petition. Correct?

I dont know anything about a petition.

One of the people who intends to move there told me the hold up is Met. Jonah living so close to the Cathedral and once he is gone from there the last obstacle will be over come. That is what he told me. He is selling his house to help pay for the new Monastery so I believe he is a credible source. That's all I know about it,
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« Reply #1138 on: November 25, 2014, 01:07:24 PM »


... if you feel so strongly that the Metropolitan has been, and continues to be treated poorly or has been "wronged" by the OCA,  vote with your feet. Let the OCA know politely, in writing why you are leaving and where you are going."  

That has already happened. Unfortunately, many of these folks cannot keep from publicly assailing the OCA with all sorts of accusations, innuendo and gossip. I can only surmise that they are trying to justify voting with their feet, something which has been called a not-so-nice appellation of schism.

So when people left while Met Herman was there because 7 million dollars suspiciously disappeared, would that also constitute a schism?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 01:07:36 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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