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Author Topic: Why some "Christians" have commited a lot of evil ? I found the answer.  (Read 1543 times) Average Rating: 0
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2014, 10:41:43 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.
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« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2014, 10:45:05 PM »

He decriminalized Christianity and upheld Orthodox Christianity after the First Council of Nicea. Constantine was praised as a virtuous man by both Christian and pagans alike. He was baptized shortly before he died, but that does not mean that he did not take Christianity seriously.

If he took his Christianity seriously, he would actually have done what Jesus taught.  You know, when God said to "love your enemies", I think he really meant it.

So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.

Look, I know, blind faith keeps blinding.   Don't look at reality.  Get angry.  Get angry at reality.   Make excuses.  Dodge reality.   

Of course the EO/RC church kisses Constantine's hind quarters, after all, he re-instated the bishops who denied Christ back to power then killed/sent into exile those apposing these bishops.   These "heretics" known as Donatists had no theological difference - they just didn't deny Christ, nor would they allow bishops who denied Christ back to power.   The bishops who denied Christ and gave up their gospels are in lineage to the current EO bishops - and the Donatists who were murdered are just "unforgiving heretics".   The icons in the EO church go to - you guessed it - Constantine.  He even has hymns!

History is most often written by the victors.

It's hard to admit when a saint your church holds as good.

And just to settle it before it comes - sure I'm a sinner.  I have never killed or murdered anybody.  I love my wife, I wouldn't have her executed - I'd rather die.  I also love my sons, I'd die in their stead before I'd have them executed.   I also could not order troops to kill others for almost any reason, let alone imperialism.
I'm right there with ya, bro. That's why when the author of Hebrews started raisin' the roof on ol' Sampson, I sent him a real nasty letter detailing all the sluts he kicked it with, stealing people's doors, abusing animals by lighting them on fire and all the dudes he bashed in with a donkey's jawbone. Then, at the very end, instead of forgiving his enemies, he pushed their temple down and killed all of them. If he really would have been serious about his faith, he would have loved his enemies.  I'm circulating a petition to have the book of Hebrews removed from the canon.  Can I count on your vote?  Clearly, it is just in there to get the Jewish vote by giving props to their heroes.

If you want to mock the scriptures, it's on your own.   

The Old Testament was before we had Jesus.   A teaching of Jesus was to love your enemies.  This is something Constantine would have done if he was a follower of Jesus Christ.

The problem here is that I believe that some of you can't accept that Jesus actually meant what he said and Constantine did not do it... Rather he pretty much was the opposite of Christ.
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« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2014, 10:49:14 PM »

and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.

Of all things, why are you faulting a nominally pagan emperor for issuing nominally pagan coins? Despite his personal beliefs, he wasn’t yet a baptized Christian and, moreover, ruled an empire with an overwhelming pagan majority. What good would come out of changing the coinage?

Of course the EO/RC church kisses Constantine's hind quarters, after all, he re-instated the bishops who denied Christ back to power then killed/sent into exile those apposing these bishops.   These "heretics" known as Donatists had no theological difference - they just didn't deny Christ, nor would they allow bishops who denied Christ back to power.   The bishops who denied Christ and gave up their gospels are in lineage to the current EO bishops - and the Donatists who were murdered are just "unforgiving heretics".  

It wasn’t quite St. Constantine who re-instated the traditores but rather their fellow bishops and Christians, including many who themselves suffered in the persecutions and were crippled by it. St. Paul of Neocaesarea, with his arms ruined by red hot irons, was willing to forgive those who fell away but you seem to rather support those who wouldn’t.

You speak of murdered Donatists but remember, when they had the upper hand, they were the ones doing the murdering.

I also could not order troops to kill others for almost any reason, let alone imperialism.

For what it’s worth, Constantine doesn’t seem to have believed he could be both a baptized Christian as well as the Emperor. Before his baptism he promised, if he survived his illness, he would devote himself to the Church in whatever capacity he could, and after his baptism he refused to array himself in the purple, choosing to rather die as the “new man” rather than the old.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 10:58:46 PM by Hawkeye » Logged

Quote from: The Excess of Blessed Constantine's Pious Concern
For while the people of God, whose fellow servant I am, are thus divided amongst themselves by an unreasonable and pernicious spirit of contention, how is it possible that I shall be able to maintain tranquility of mind?
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« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2014, 10:55:44 PM »

He decriminalized Christianity and upheld Orthodox Christianity after the First Council of Nicea. Constantine was praised as a virtuous man by both Christian and pagans alike. He was baptized shortly before he died, but that does not mean that he did not take Christianity seriously.

If he took his Christianity seriously, he would actually have done what Jesus taught.  You know, when God said to "love your enemies", I think he really meant it.

So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.

Look, I know, blind faith keeps blinding.   Don't look at reality.  Get angry.  Get angry at reality.   Make excuses.  Dodge reality.   

Of course the EO/RC church kisses Constantine's hind quarters, after all, he re-instated the bishops who denied Christ back to power then killed/sent into exile those apposing these bishops.   These "heretics" known as Donatists had no theological difference - they just didn't deny Christ, nor would they allow bishops who denied Christ back to power.   The bishops who denied Christ and gave up their gospels are in lineage to the current EO bishops - and the Donatists who were murdered are just "unforgiving heretics".   The icons in the EO church go to - you guessed it - Constantine.  He even has hymns!

History is most often written by the victors.

It's hard to admit when a saint your church holds as good.

And just to settle it before it comes - sure I'm a sinner.  I have never killed or murdered anybody.  I love my wife, I wouldn't have her executed - I'd rather die.  I also love my sons, I'd die in their stead before I'd have them executed.   I also could not order troops to kill others for almost any reason, let alone imperialism.
I'm right there with ya, bro. That's why when the author of Hebrews started raisin' the roof on ol' Sampson, I sent him a real nasty letter detailing all the sluts he kicked it with, stealing people's doors, abusing animals by lighting them on fire and all the dudes he bashed in with a donkey's jawbone. Then, at the very end, instead of forgiving his enemies, he pushed their temple down and killed all of them. If he really would have been serious about his faith, he would have loved his enemies.  I'm circulating a petition to have the book of Hebrews removed from the canon.  Can I count on your vote?  Clearly, it is just in there to get the Jewish vote by giving props to their heroes.

If you want to mock the scriptures, it's on your own.   

The Old Testament was before we had Jesus.   A teaching of Jesus was to love your enemies.  This is something Constantine would have done if he was a follower of Jesus Christ.

The problem here is that I believe that some of you can't accept that Jesus actually meant what he said and Constantine did not do it... Rather he pretty much was the opposite of Christ.
I'm not mocking scripture, I'm mocking this odd fixation you have with St. Constantine's sins. You can't just discard the saints under the Old Testament as not valid and the people in it were too stupid to understand loving others. Why does Hebrews mention the "cloud of witnesses" as examples of great faith if they were inferior examples of man's relationship to God?
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« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2014, 11:06:04 PM »

He decriminalized Christianity and upheld Orthodox Christianity after the First Council of Nicea. Constantine was praised as a virtuous man by both Christian and pagans alike. He was baptized shortly before he died, but that does not mean that he did not take Christianity seriously.

If he took his Christianity seriously, he would actually have done what Jesus taught.  You know, when God said to "love your enemies", I think he really meant it.

So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.

Look, I know, blind faith keeps blinding.   Don't look at reality.  Get angry.  Get angry at reality.   Make excuses.  Dodge reality.   

Of course the EO/RC church kisses Constantine's hind quarters, after all, he re-instated the bishops who denied Christ back to power then killed/sent into exile those apposing these bishops.   These "heretics" known as Donatists had no theological difference - they just didn't deny Christ, nor would they allow bishops who denied Christ back to power.   The bishops who denied Christ and gave up their gospels are in lineage to the current EO bishops - and the Donatists who were murdered are just "unforgiving heretics".   The icons in the EO church go to - you guessed it - Constantine.  He even has hymns!

History is most often written by the victors.

It's hard to admit when a saint your church holds as good.

And just to settle it before it comes - sure I'm a sinner.  I have never killed or murdered anybody.  I love my wife, I wouldn't have her executed - I'd rather die.  I also love my sons, I'd die in their stead before I'd have them executed.   I also could not order troops to kill others for almost any reason, let alone imperialism.
I'm right there with ya, bro. That's why when the author of Hebrews started raisin' the roof on ol' Sampson, I sent him a real nasty letter detailing all the sluts he kicked it with, stealing people's doors, abusing animals by lighting them on fire and all the dudes he bashed in with a donkey's jawbone. Then, at the very end, instead of forgiving his enemies, he pushed their temple down and killed all of them. If he really would have been serious about his faith, he would have loved his enemies.  I'm circulating a petition to have the book of Hebrews removed from the canon.  Can I count on your vote?  Clearly, it is just in there to get the Jewish vote by giving props to their heroes.

If you want to mock the scriptures, it's on your own.   

The Old Testament was before we had Jesus.   A teaching of Jesus was to love your enemies.  This is something Constantine would have done if he was a follower of Jesus Christ.

The problem here is that I believe that some of you can't accept that Jesus actually meant what he said and Constantine did not do it... Rather he pretty much was the opposite of Christ.
I'm not mocking scripture, I'm mocking this odd fixation you have with St. Constantine's sins. You can't just discard the saints under the Old Testament as not valid and the people in it were too stupid to understand loving others. Why does Hebrews mention the "cloud of witnesses" as examples of great faith if they were inferior examples of man's relationship to God?

Sampson did not hear about loving his enemies.

Look, Constantine dictated much of the Christian church through Nicea.  He took part in banishments, re-instatements, executions, etc.

He executed his own wife and son 1 single year after Nicea.   Look, that's some freaky freaky stuff. 

I think the real cloud going on here is the "mind cloud" where people refuse to see the man they are revering.

It's not like Paul who later changed his ways.  His entire life was full of murder, executions, pagan sun worship, and sought wealth / riches / power.

On his death bed - "oh yeah Jesus/Baptism".

Give that man an icon & hymns.
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« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2014, 11:49:33 PM »

We see a man who had the courage to buck all past tradition of persecuting and killing Christians. He accepted and protected a religion that was widely reviled. He had the opportunity to proclaim himself a god, but instead he submitted himself to the authority of the Church. His original understanding of it was flawed, yet he desired unity. When the counsel ruled IN OPPOSITION to his belief of Arianism, he accepted the findings of the counsel. God blessed his rule as one of the greatest rulers of the Roman Empire. Did he do some things wrong? Of course he did. We don't know why he executed his wife and son, but before we condemn him perhaps there is the possibility that they committed some crime that warranted the death penalty. As head of state, difficult decisions must be made. I'm not justifying it, but when we don't know all the info, casting aspersions and condemnation ought not be our first reaction.
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« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2014, 11:51:31 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.
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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2014, 12:39:42 AM »

ITT we judge saints of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church to the benefit and illumination of all.
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« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2014, 09:54:58 AM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.
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« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2014, 07:19:22 AM »

It might be Vladimir.

As I said before, I'd far rather have a bath from Anna Porphyrogenita than from Grandma Olga.
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« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2014, 01:39:28 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 
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« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2014, 01:41:00 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;
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« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2014, 01:57:07 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 
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« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2014, 01:58:26 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Show me a copy of Webster's Dictionary in the first or second century and then we can talk.
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« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2014, 02:00:01 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Are you using Merriam-Webster? It's what I deduced based on your mention of "Websters" in your definition of Mediation. Anyhow, Merriam-Webster defines "Mediation" as,

" the act or process of mediating; especially :  intervention between conflicting parties to promote reconciliation, settlement, or compromise" Saints don't do this

": the act or process of mediating something (as a physical process)"(In the context of medicine)

"In law, a nonbinding intervention between parties to promote resolution of a grievance, reconciliation, settlement, or compromise. It is used especially in labour disputes. In many industrialized countries, the government provides mediation services in order to protect the public interest. In the U.S., the National Mediation Board functions in this capacity. Mediation is also commonly used in international conflicts. See also arbitration."

Merriam-Webster defines "Intercession" as,

1:  the act of interceding(This is in the context of the resolution of arguments and disagreements between two conflicting parties)

2:  prayer, petition, or entreaty in favor of another

1 does not entail the Orthodox viewpoint of Intercession of the Saints since Saints don't resolve disagreements between God and the Faithful on Earth.

2 in contrast entails the Orthodox use of "Intercession" regarding the Saints as it is praying or petitioning for the Faithful on Earth to God which means that the Saints are praying on behalf of the Faithful and since the Faithful also prays directly to Go, the Saints are interceding and praying together with the Faithful.

The example of the use of "intercession" you provided is faithful to its usage as in the 2nd definition provided by Merriam-Webster. However it raises problems as it can be said that a person praying for another is interceding on behalf of the other hereby being a mediator of that other person between him/her and God. Since you said earlier that Christ is the only mediator between man and God then by that same line of thinking to say that a Faithful praying on behalf of another is therefore against Scripture. All Christians do this so it means all Christians are going against Scripture as followed by your line of thinking.
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« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2014, 02:05:31 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.
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« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2014, 02:09:21 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Are you using Merriam-Webster? It's what I deduced based on your mention of "Websters" in your definition of Mediation. Anyhow, Merriam-Webster defines "Mediation" as,

" the act or process of mediating; especially :  intervention between conflicting parties to promote reconciliation, settlement, or compromise" Saints don't do this

": the act or process of mediating something (as a physical process)"(In the context of medicine)

"In law, a nonbinding intervention between parties to promote resolution of a grievance, reconciliation, settlement, or compromise. It is used especially in labour disputes. In many industrialized countries, the government provides mediation services in order to protect the public interest. In the U.S., the National Mediation Board functions in this capacity. Mediation is also commonly used in international conflicts. See also arbitration."

Merriam-Webster defines "Intercession" as,

1:  the act of interceding(This is in the context of the resolution of arguments and disagreements between two conflicting parties)

2:  prayer, petition, or entreaty in favor of another

1 does not entail the Orthodox viewpoint of Intercession of the Saints since Saints don't resolve disagreements between God and the Faithful on Earth.

2 in contrast entails the Orthodox use of "Intercession" regarding the Saints as it is praying or petitioning for the Faithful on Earth to God which means that the Saints are praying on behalf of the Faithful and since the Faithful also prays directly to Go, the Saints are interceding and praying together with the Faithful.

The example of the use of "intercession" you provided is faithful to its usage as in the 2nd definition provided by Merriam-Webster. However it raises problems as it can be said that a person praying for another is interceding on behalf of the other hereby being a mediator of that other person between him/her and God. Since you said earlier that Christ is the only mediator between man and God then by that same line of thinking to say that a Faithful praying on behalf of another is therefore against Scripture. All Christians do this so it means all Christians are going against Scripture as followed by your line of thinking.

It's the very reason men do not cover when praying, because there is nothing between them and God.

Twist definitions all you want - SHOW ME - one example in scriptures where man prayed to any saint or dead personage who was assumed to be in heaven the same way the EO church does.  Either in the Jewish or Christian church.
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« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2014, 02:12:07 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Show me a copy of Webster's Dictionary in the first or second century and then we can talk.

Show me scriptures of somebody praying to any dead person in the Old or New Testament that is assumed to be in heaven.  That's pre first-century.

See the problem is you have two choices, one you can follow what bishops have placed over the words of God, or you can follow what God told you through his word.   
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« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2014, 02:13:18 PM »

http://biblehub.com/luke/16-24.htm

Luke 16:24

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Maccabees+12%3A46&version=DRA

2 Maccabees 12:46Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
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« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2014, 02:26:22 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Show me a copy of Webster's Dictionary in the first or second century and then we can talk.

Show me scriptures of somebody praying to any dead person in the Old or New Testament that is assumed to be in heaven.  That's pre first-century.

So you don't like it when your own crappy tactics are used against you.  Good.  But then you use those crappy tactics when it suits you.  Bad.

Anyway,

Quote
Luke 9

28 Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. 30 And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli′jah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, and when they wakened they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. 33 And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli′jah”—not knowing what he said. 34 As he said this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!” 36 And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silence and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.

Quote
See the problem is you have two choices, one you can follow what bishops have placed over the words of God, or you can follow what God told you through his word.   

God never told me the Bible was his word.  The Church did.   
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« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2014, 02:42:44 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.
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« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2014, 02:47:41 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Are you using Merriam-Webster? It's what I deduced based on your mention of "Websters" in your definition of Mediation. Anyhow, Merriam-Webster defines "Mediation" as,

" the act or process of mediating; especially :  intervention between conflicting parties to promote reconciliation, settlement, or compromise" Saints don't do this

": the act or process of mediating something (as a physical process)"(In the context of medicine)

"In law, a nonbinding intervention between parties to promote resolution of a grievance, reconciliation, settlement, or compromise. It is used especially in labour disputes. In many industrialized countries, the government provides mediation services in order to protect the public interest. In the U.S., the National Mediation Board functions in this capacity. Mediation is also commonly used in international conflicts. See also arbitration."

Merriam-Webster defines "Intercession" as,

1:  the act of interceding(This is in the context of the resolution of arguments and disagreements between two conflicting parties)

2:  prayer, petition, or entreaty in favor of another

1 does not entail the Orthodox viewpoint of Intercession of the Saints since Saints don't resolve disagreements between God and the Faithful on Earth.

2 in contrast entails the Orthodox use of "Intercession" regarding the Saints as it is praying or petitioning for the Faithful on Earth to God which means that the Saints are praying on behalf of the Faithful and since the Faithful also prays directly to Go, the Saints are interceding and praying together with the Faithful.

The example of the use of "intercession" you provided is faithful to its usage as in the 2nd definition provided by Merriam-Webster. However it raises problems as it can be said that a person praying for another is interceding on behalf of the other hereby being a mediator of that other person between him/her and God. Since you said earlier that Christ is the only mediator between man and God then by that same line of thinking to say that a Faithful praying on behalf of another is therefore against Scripture. All Christians do this so it means all Christians are going against Scripture as followed by your line of thinking.

It's the very reason men do not cover when praying, because there is nothing between them and God.

Twist definitions all you want - SHOW ME - one example in scriptures where man prayed to any saint or dead personage who was assumed to be in heaven the same way the EO church does.  Either in the Jewish or Christian church.

Go ahead and view what I presented as "twisting definitions". Some Biblical implications of Intercession of the Saints had been provided by other users but there's explicit reference of this in Revelation 8, verses 3-4

Quote
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:49:20 PM by sakura95 » Logged

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« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2014, 04:24:54 PM »

http://biblehub.com/luke/16-24.htm

Luke 16:24

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Maccabees+12%3A46&version=DRA

2 Maccabees 12:46Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.


So your quote came from somebody who was burning in hell.   I guess that's a good example for you to follow.
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« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2014, 04:30:07 PM »

About that Relationship Chart, the Orthodox view would be more like this,
Wife, Husband, Constantine, All Saints -> God

Exactly.  It works against scripture.  There is NO mediator between God and man except for Jesus Christ.

Definitely but it doesn't mean that one cannot venerate or ask for intercession from the Saints.

Actually it does.

Definition (Websters)
Mediation
the action of intervening on behalf of another.
"through the intercession of friends, I was able to obtain her a sinecure"
synonyms:   mediation, intermediation, arbitration, conciliation, negotiation;

Show me a copy of Webster's Dictionary in the first or second century and then we can talk.

Show me scriptures of somebody praying to any dead person in the Old or New Testament that is assumed to be in heaven.  That's pre first-century.

So you don't like it when your own crappy tactics are used against you.  Good.  But then you use those crappy tactics when it suits you.  Bad.

Anyway,

Quote
Luke 9

28 Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. 30 And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli′jah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, and when they wakened they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. 33 And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli′jah”—not knowing what he said. 34 As he said this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!” 36 And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silence and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.

Quote
See the problem is you have two choices, one you can follow what bishops have placed over the words of God, or you can follow what God told you through his word.   

God never told me the Bible was his word.  The Church did.   

So the men talked to him that appeared to him.  This is the excuse to PRAY to people you assume is in heaven.

You have this example of Jesus TALKING with an vision of Moses & Elijah and another example where somebody (who was already dead and in hell) communicated with somebody in heaven (at least biro did).

This is absolutely ridiculous.

The word of God existed before the bible my friend.  God's spoken word too.
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« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2014, 04:41:06 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.

Sort of.  He rocked the church completely.  He murdered Christians.  He murdered his wife & son.  He murdered hundreds of thousands in combat.  He distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ (by not loving his enemies except by the sword).   Then at the end of his life, he recants & repents, and is sainted by the very people he gave tons of money to - in order to bring them back to power.

Now he's Saint Constantine.

If Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and me as a brother, I hope to see my face on an icon soon, because I should get my reward in full... Oh yeah, that won't happen.  The church doesn't seem to esteem family men that raise good moral children and are loyal to their families like they do to those who kill their families.... along with others.

Perhaps I should have pulled a Hitler (imperialism), murdered a bunch of people,  taken over some countries, donated a bunch of my loot back to EO bishops and expanded some churches, then I'd have some hymns and an icon.

It's a reality.  It's a tough reality.  This is the unfortunate side to the Eastern Orthodox church.  It's a complete package deal.  You take it or leave it.

Did Constantine love his enemies or kill them?  Did he show loyalty to his own family?   

I have a beef with this saint - certainly.  I will never venerate an icon to him for any reason, nor will I sing hymns to him.  - and do you know what - if I don't do this I can't get the Eucharist even if I fully believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, god in the flesh, the messiah, and king of Israel. 

Can you absolutely guarantee me that Constantine is in heaven?
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« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2014, 04:41:21 PM »

Since your all into the Jewish side of Christianity, why not hear what some Jews have to say about it?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/562222/jewish/Is-it-okay-to-ask-a-deceased-tzaddik-to-pray-on-my-behalf.htm

Quote
Question:
 
I was always under the impression that Judaism firmly believed that there are no intermediaries between man and G‑d, and to pray to the deceased is blasphemous and outlawed by the Bible. If so, why is it permissible to ask the Rebbe to intercede on one's behalf at the Ohel?
 
Answer:
 
Yes, Jewish customs can be perplexing. Judaism is all about having a direct connection to G-d. An intermediary is a form of idolatry (see "Unidolatry" for more explanation of why this is forbidden.). Yet for as long as there are records, Jews have been in the habit of asking righteous men and women to have a chat with G-d on their behalf.
 
We see that the Jewish people asked Moses to intercede many times and he accepted their request. If he hadn't, we wouldn't be here--so G-d obviously figured it was okay. The Talmud (Baba Batra 116a) tells us that "If there is someone ill in your house, go to the wise man of the city and ask that he should pray for him." Of course, this person also needs to pray for himself, as his family should as well--and any Jew who knows that another Jew is ill should pray for him. But you need to go to that wise man as well...

Praying at a gravesite does not mean you are beseeching this dead person to rise from the grave and appear before you. That is the abomination to which the above-cited verse refers. Neither are you, G‑d forbid, praying to the dead—a practice that is most certainly forbidden. But you are able to connect with these souls, since, when it comes to the soul, all of us are truly one.
 
You are simply expressing your faith that the righteous never really die, truth is never truly lost and even the grave cannot prevent you from connecting to this great teacher and righteous soul. Just as this tzaddik cared and took care of others during his lifetime--not as "others" but as he cared for his own soul--so too now, nothing has changed and he still can feel your pain and pray with you.

 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 04:44:03 PM by TheTrisagion » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: November 21, 2014, 04:45:32 PM »

St. Constantine has probably converted more people than all of the twelve apostles combined, albeit in his own special way.

Stop hating, bro.
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« Reply #72 on: November 21, 2014, 04:45:59 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.

Sort of.  He rocked the church completely.  He murdered Christians.  He murdered his wife & son.  He murdered hundreds of thousands in combat.  He distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ (by not loving his enemies except by the sword).   Then at the end of his life, he recants & repents, and is sainted by the very people he gave tons of money to - in order to bring them back to power.

Now he's Saint Constantine.

If Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and me as a brother, I hope to see my face on an icon soon, because I should get my reward in full... Oh yeah, that won't happen.  The church doesn't seem to esteem family men that raise good moral children and are loyal to their families like they do to those who kill their families.... along with others.

Perhaps I should have pulled a Hitler (imperialism), murdered a bunch of people,  taken over some countries, donated a bunch of my loot back to EO bishops and expanded some churches, then I'd have some hymns and an icon.

It's a reality.  It's a tough reality.  This is the unfortunate side to the Eastern Orthodox church.  It's a complete package deal.  You take it or leave it.

Did Constantine love his enemies or kill them?  Did he show loyalty to his own family?   

I have a beef with this saint - certainly.  I will never venerate an icon to him for any reason, nor will I sing hymns to him.  - and do you know what - if I don't do this I can't get the Eucharist even if I fully believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, god in the flesh, the messiah, and king of Israel. 

Can you absolutely guarantee me that Constantine is in heaven?
So, let me ask you this? Other than reading wikipedia, do you really have a clue about what St. Constantine did? Have you read any original sources commenting on his life? Of all the base accusations your place on him, can you find support in actual historical documents for any of it?
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« Reply #73 on: November 21, 2014, 04:47:35 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.

Sort of.  He rocked the church completely.  He murdered Christians.  He murdered his wife & son.  He murdered hundreds of thousands in combat.  He distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ (by not loving his enemies except by the sword).   Then at the end of his life, he recants & repents, and is sainted by the very people he gave tons of money to - in order to bring them back to power.

Now he's Saint Constantine.

If Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and me as a brother, I hope to see my face on an icon soon, because I should get my reward in full... Oh yeah, that won't happen.  The church doesn't seem to esteem family men that raise good moral children and are loyal to their families like they do to those who kill their families.... along with others.

Perhaps I should have pulled a Hitler (imperialism), murdered a bunch of people,  taken over some countries, donated a bunch of my loot back to EO bishops and expanded some churches, then I'd have some hymns and an icon.

It's a reality.  It's a tough reality.  This is the unfortunate side to the Eastern Orthodox church.  It's a complete package deal.  You take it or leave it.

Did Constantine love his enemies or kill them?  Did he show loyalty to his own family?   

I have a beef with this saint - certainly.  I will never venerate an icon to him for any reason, nor will I sing hymns to him.  - and do you know what - if I don't do this I can't get the Eucharist even if I fully believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, god in the flesh, the messiah, and king of Israel. 

Can you absolutely guarantee me that Constantine is in heaven?
So, let me ask you this? Other than reading wikipedia, do you really have a clue about what St. Constantine did? Have you read any original sources commenting on his life? Of all the base accusations your place on him, can you find support in actual historical documents for any of it?

Yes, and unbiased ones, outside of EO books.
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« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2014, 04:48:43 PM »

St. Constantine has probably converted more people than all of the twelve apostles combined, albeit in his own special way.

Stop hating, bro.

Converted to what, the religion that loves his enemies, or the Nicolaitan faith that dominates men?
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« Reply #75 on: November 21, 2014, 04:49:01 PM »

Yeshua's problem is that he doesn't believe God forgives.

St. Constantine has probably converted more people than all of the twelve apostles combined, albeit in his own special way.

Stop hating, bro.

Converted to what, the religion that loves his enemies, or the Nicolaitan faith that dominates men?

Probably the only reason you and I are Christian is because of St. Constantine. If not for him Christianity might have remained a small, mainly Greek cult.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 04:51:27 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2014, 04:50:17 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.

Sort of.  He rocked the church completely.  He murdered Christians.  He murdered his wife & son.  He murdered hundreds of thousands in combat.  He distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ (by not loving his enemies except by the sword).   Then at the end of his life, he recants & repents, and is sainted by the very people he gave tons of money to - in order to bring them back to power.

Now he's Saint Constantine.

If Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and me as a brother, I hope to see my face on an icon soon, because I should get my reward in full... Oh yeah, that won't happen.  The church doesn't seem to esteem family men that raise good moral children and are loyal to their families like they do to those who kill their families.... along with others.

Perhaps I should have pulled a Hitler (imperialism), murdered a bunch of people,  taken over some countries, donated a bunch of my loot back to EO bishops and expanded some churches, then I'd have some hymns and an icon.

It's a reality.  It's a tough reality.  This is the unfortunate side to the Eastern Orthodox church.  It's a complete package deal.  You take it or leave it.

Did Constantine love his enemies or kill them?  Did he show loyalty to his own family?   

I have a beef with this saint - certainly.  I will never venerate an icon to him for any reason, nor will I sing hymns to him.  - and do you know what - if I don't do this I can't get the Eucharist even if I fully believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, god in the flesh, the messiah, and king of Israel. 

Can you absolutely guarantee me that Constantine is in heaven?
So, let me ask you this? Other than reading wikipedia, do you really have a clue about what St. Constantine did? Have you read any original sources commenting on his life? Of all the base accusations your place on him, can you find support in actual historical documents for any of it?

Wikipedia's overall impression and assessment of Constantine is quite positive. I mean Constantine was concerned with keeping his Empire united, introduced reforms, introduced humane laws, promoted religious freedom, tried to stop inflation and ultimately tried to convert the Pagans to Christianity without the use of the Sword.
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« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2014, 04:52:44 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.

Sort of.  He rocked the church completely.  He murdered Christians.  He murdered his wife & son.  He murdered hundreds of thousands in combat.  He distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ (by not loving his enemies except by the sword).   Then at the end of his life, he recants & repents, and is sainted by the very people he gave tons of money to - in order to bring them back to power.

Now he's Saint Constantine.

If Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and me as a brother, I hope to see my face on an icon soon, because I should get my reward in full... Oh yeah, that won't happen.  The church doesn't seem to esteem family men that raise good moral children and are loyal to their families like they do to those who kill their families.... along with others.

Perhaps I should have pulled a Hitler (imperialism), murdered a bunch of people,  taken over some countries, donated a bunch of my loot back to EO bishops and expanded some churches, then I'd have some hymns and an icon.

It's a reality.  It's a tough reality.  This is the unfortunate side to the Eastern Orthodox church.  It's a complete package deal.  You take it or leave it.

Did Constantine love his enemies or kill them?  Did he show loyalty to his own family?   

I have a beef with this saint - certainly.  I will never venerate an icon to him for any reason, nor will I sing hymns to him.  - and do you know what - if I don't do this I can't get the Eucharist even if I fully believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, god in the flesh, the messiah, and king of Israel. 

Can you absolutely guarantee me that Constantine is in heaven?
So, let me ask you this? Other than reading wikipedia, do you really have a clue about what St. Constantine did? Have you read any original sources commenting on his life? Of all the base accusations your place on him, can you find support in actual historical documents for any of it?

Yes, and unbiased ones, outside of EO books.
A. There are no "unbiased" history books. Everyone has a motive for writing what the write.
B. Which books did you read? I'll give you a tip. Books that have "The Great Apostasy" in the title are not historical source documents or unbiased.
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« Reply #78 on: November 21, 2014, 05:11:01 PM »

So the men talked to him that appeared to him.  This is the excuse to PRAY to people you assume is in heaven.

You have this example of Jesus TALKING with an vision of Moses & Elijah and another example where somebody (who was already dead and in hell) communicated with somebody in heaven (at least biro did).

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Talking is a form of addressing someone.  So is prayer.  Just ask Webster. 

Quote
pray verb \ˈprā\
: to speak to God especially in order to give thanks or to ask for something

: to hope or wish very much for something to happen

: to seriously ask (someone) to do something
 
Full Definition of PRAY

transitive verb
1
entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea <pray be careful>
2
:  to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1
to make a request in a humble manner
2
:  to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pray

As for biro's example, which you are quick to dismiss by pointing to the fact that the speaker was dead and in hell, the point is that communication exists in some form between those in hades and those in paradise, and that communication between these and those on earth also exists.  Otherwise, why would Jesus craft such a story?  Every other parable is based on some real life example of something that exists or happens or is otherwise true, except this one? 

That's the point: communion, communication, fellowship.  If prayer to the saints is heretical, so is talking to you.  If communication between people in different places doesn't happen, then neither is this conversation.   

Quote
The word of God existed before the bible my friend.  God's spoken word too.

I know what I would mean by this, but I don't know what you mean by this. 
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« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2014, 05:21:06 PM »

St. Constantine repented before he died.

Either God forgives, or He does not. Period.

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly.   That's the point. 

Repentance does not make one's actions saintly, but repentance itself is saintly.  You are like the brother of the prodigal son, bitter over the Father's love for a deadbeat, totally ignorant of the Father's love and benevolence toward himself, "the good son", the entire time. 

Good then I am saintly, and so is everybody who repents.

The problem with this logic is Constantine wasn't a deadbeat.  He was fully aware of Christian teaching and the instructions of Jesus Christ.  1 year after Nicea, he murdered his own wife and child, 9 years after Nicea, he destroyed and killed people for imperialism.

"In this sign conquer".
"Love your enemies".

Yeah right.

Did St. Constantine run over your dog in a past life or something?  There are saints who I don't have particularly warm feelings for but it seems so personal for you.

Sort of.  He rocked the church completely.  He murdered Christians.  He murdered his wife & son.  He murdered hundreds of thousands in combat.  He distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ (by not loving his enemies except by the sword).   Then at the end of his life, he recants & repents, and is sainted by the very people he gave tons of money to - in order to bring them back to power.

Quote
Matthew 20

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the market place; 4 and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing; and he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder, 12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.”

Yes, YiM, you begrudge God's generosity.

Quote
Now he's Saint Constantine.

If Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and me as a brother, I hope to see my face on an icon soon, because I should get my reward in full... Oh yeah, that won't happen.  The church doesn't seem to esteem family men that raise good moral children and are loyal to their families like they do to those who kill their families.... along with others.

Perhaps I should have pulled a Hitler (imperialism), murdered a bunch of people,  taken over some countries, donated a bunch of my loot back to EO bishops and expanded some churches, then I'd have some hymns and an icon.

In other words, "Mor is correct about the prodigal son example and YiM as a brother".  You sound just as whiny as he was.  Since you're so big on "God's word", read it.  Don't just throw it at us. 

Quote
It's a reality.  It's a tough reality.  This is the unfortunate side to the Eastern Orthodox church.  It's a complete package deal.  You take it or leave it.

Did Constantine love his enemies or kill them?  Did he show loyalty to his own family?   

I have a beef with this saint - certainly.  I will never venerate an icon to him for any reason, nor will I sing hymns to him.  - and do you know what - if I don't do this I can't get the Eucharist even if I fully believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, god in the flesh, the messiah, and king of Israel. 

Can you absolutely guarantee me that Constantine is in heaven?

In other words, yeshuaisiam rejects repentance, baptism, the death and resurrection of Christ, and Christ's "rights" as Saviour and God to save whomever he wishes, the Holy Spirit, and just about every central tenet of anything remotely identifiable as "Christian faith", be it Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or Protestant.  Instead, he preaches yeshuaisiamism.  St Paul told us what to do with such.     
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« Reply #80 on: November 21, 2014, 05:28:47 PM »


So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.


To be quite honest, the family man sounds like some imasculated drone where as guy #2 sounds like someone who get's shizzle done.  If I had to chose someone to watch my non-existent children, I'd probably go with the one who'd string up hundreds of thousands of ChiMos rather than see something or someone under his protection to suffer at their hands.
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« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2014, 05:31:00 PM »


So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.


To be quite honest, the family man sounds like some imasculated drone where as guy #2 sounds like someone who get's shizzle done.  If I had to chose someone to watch my non-existent children, I'd probably go with the one who'd string up hundreds of thousands of ChiMos rather than see something or someone under his protection to suffer at their hands.
I would like to know where I can sign my children up for the St. Constantine Babysitting Service.
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« Reply #82 on: November 22, 2014, 01:51:23 AM »


So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.


To be quite honest, the family man sounds like some imasculated drone where as guy #2 sounds like someone who get's shizzle done.  If I had to chose someone to watch my non-existent children, I'd probably go with the one who'd string up hundreds of thousands of ChiMos rather than see something or someone under his protection to suffer at their hands.
I would like to know where I can sign my children up for the St. Constantine Babysitting Service.

Call 1-800-1NICAEA.  Operators are standing by.
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« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2014, 01:09:12 AM »


So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.


To be quite honest, the family man sounds like some imasculated drone where as guy #2 sounds like someone who get's shizzle done.  If I had to chose someone to watch my non-existent children, I'd probably go with the one who'd string up hundreds of thousands of ChiMos rather than see something or someone under his protection to suffer at their hands.
I would like to know where I can sign my children up for the St. Constantine Babysitting Service.

Call 1-800-1NICAEA.  Operators are standing by.

Don't forget the life insurance on them.
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« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2014, 01:15:09 AM »


So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.


To be quite honest, the family man sounds like some imasculated drone where as guy #2 sounds like someone who get's shizzle done.  If I had to chose someone to watch my non-existent children, I'd probably go with the one who'd string up hundreds of thousands of ChiMos rather than see something or someone under his protection to suffer at their hands.
I would like to know where I can sign my children up for the St. Constantine Babysitting Service.

Call 1-800-1NICAEA.  Operators are standing by.

Don't forget the life insurance on them.
I would trust St. Constantine with my children over the Anabaptists who would refuse baptism to them and thereby endangering their souls.
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« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2014, 06:13:31 PM »


So again, the question stands (I didn't bring up specifics until it was dealt out), would you rather a family man watch your children or a man that put his wife and son to death (after Nicea) in 326. Also murdered hundreds of thousands of people in battle well after Nicea and kept pagan sun God's on his coinage.


To be quite honest, the family man sounds like some imasculated drone where as guy #2 sounds like someone who get's shizzle done.  If I had to chose someone to watch my non-existent children, I'd probably go with the one who'd string up hundreds of thousands of ChiMos rather than see something or someone under his protection to suffer at their hands.
I would like to know where I can sign my children up for the St. Constantine Babysitting Service.

Call 1-800-1NICAEA.  Operators are standing by.

I called that number, a girl answered and asked what religious fetish I prefered Shocked Shocked
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"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
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