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Author Topic: Rastafari and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church  (Read 16285 times) Average Rating: 4
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« on: December 26, 2009, 09:44:01 PM »

For my Rastafarian brethren who are truly seeking to follow His Majesty's words, life, and example:

Greetings, Peace and Love to one and all:
    
With deepest respect I offer these humble thoughts:
    
The shepherd has simply said, “Come into the fold.” If the
sheep are scattered, they are prey for the wolves. Shall the sheep seek
security in a snake pit? Shall they seek organization in the hyenas’
den? Shall they progress and grow by swimming with the crocodiles? Shall
they find unity by following their own individualistic ideas and
philosophies? Shall they gain true understanding from their own arrogant and
subjective interpretations of Holy teachings? Shall the sheep find peace
and love amongst one another when they continually focus on their
differences rather than on that which they have in common?
    
My brethren and sistren, Rastafari people are a diverse
massive with a collective desire for righteousness, unity, justice,
truth, peace, love, and livity. In short, we all love Almighty JAH (God; Psalm 68:4 in KJV) and seek His will. And the Light of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile
Selassie I is the divine Light that was sent to guide Rastafari people
into the fullness of Truth.
    
So, Rastafari people are sheep with a shepherd. But many are
stubborn sheep, obstinately ignoring the commands and correction of our
shining example. What would His Majesty say about the struggles and difficulties that Rastafari have in organizing and centralizing? Would he not say what H.I.M. has always said:

“Come into the fold. Come into the Eternal, Mystical, Ancient and Holy
Apostolic Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. Come and drink freely of
the waters of life and salvation. Come and receive the Lord Eyesus
Kristos through the Sacraments of Holy Baptism and the Holy Eucharist.
My little sheep, I am the shepherd who JAH has sent to lead you to the
Good Shepherd, Who is King Kristos the Lord and God.”
   
 
It is time for us to recognize that JAH’s people have been
organizing and centralizing for 2,000 years. Unity, Truth, order,
progress, security, peace, love, livity, and justice have been taught
and practiced for 2,000 years by the Saints, martyrs, and prophets of
the Orthodox Faith. So why do some of us seek to trod a different path than the
path to which His Majesty called us to follow?
    
I do not mean to cause offense, but we must tell the
truth without apology, reluctance, or fear. So this is the fact:
Rastafari will never find peace, progress, and unity if Rastafari
remains separated form JAH’s Church. We cannot resist JAH’s Truth and
JAH’s teaching and expect to succeed. We cannot fend of Babyon’s wolves if we live according our own arrogance instead of humbly submitting to what JAH says.
    
To be sure, the Church is not a perfect institution. Satan
has been attacking the Church for 2,000 years, and he wins some battles
now and then. But JAH (God) has promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. [St. Matthew 16:18] It is vital to understand that satan can prevail over individuals, organizations, nations, and even families; but we have a divine promise that the devil shall never conquer The Church! And The Church is not the ism/schism of Protestantism, Catholicism, or sectarianism; it is the unmoved, divinely established rock of the Holy Orthodox Tewahedo Faith.
        
Shall we dare to call His Majesty a liar, a fraud, a deceiver, a charlatan? But this is what some do when they reject the Church and the Faith which Haile Selassie boldly defended for the duration of his life. Rastafari: it is time for all of His Majesty's sheep to come into the fold. If ones forsake the True Fold of the Orthodox Faith, then ones become pawns in the Babylon system and prey for the Babylon wolves.
    
What we seek is already here. The well of Life is abundant and deep, and His Imperial Majesty was sent to guide Rastafari people to its healing and redemptive waters. This well of livity and Truth is the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. So why do our souls remain parched when nothing prevents us from drinking freely? As Bob Marley (our Orthodox Christian Rasta brother) said, “In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty.”

That is the reality. That is the Truth. And I say it with a heart full of love.
    
Peace and Love I-tinually.
        
Selam,

Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2009, 12:41:31 AM »

Very beautiful and well said. Glory to God!
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 11:15:07 AM »

The Rastafari and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church are actually one church?
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 11:34:00 AM »

The Rastafari and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church are actually one church?

No. The Rastafari movement believe that that Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia (whose name means "Power of the Trinity") was the divine second coming of Christ. Since Haile Selassie was titular head of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church (a non-Chalcedonian Church) they see themselves as connected to it, despite the fact that Haile Selassie reportedly denied his divinity and tried to bring them into the Tewahedo Church.
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 11:42:15 AM »

Ah...! Hope they realize that Jesus has not come back yet.  Smiley
By the way nice message to the Rastafaris.
God bless the Tewahedo Church.
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 11:45:57 AM »

. . .Halie Selassie was titular head of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. . .

Not exactly. One of his titles was "the Defender of the Faith."


Post modified to correct spelling.
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 04:14:43 PM »


Source: http://monasterujkowice.pl/photo.php?id=2096
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 04:58:27 PM »


Great picture! Do you know what Church this is?

Selam
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 05:05:20 PM »

Great picture! Do you know what Church this is?

Holy Tinity Cathedral in Addis Ababa. Here you can see where exactly the mural is placed.
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 05:06:54 PM »

Great picture! Do you know what Church this is?

Holy Tinity Cathedral in Addis Ababa. Here you can see where exactly the mural is placed.

Fantastic! Thank you.

Selam
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 12:04:23 PM »

Tenayestellign ena Selamta

Greetings Brothers and Sisters, in Christ

This is no controversial post, but I hope it will be truly effective in detailing and explaining the True Rastafarian Doctrine and Faith, and I will pray anyone to forward any doubt whatever on our Orthodox Belief in H.I.M. Qadamawi Haile Selassie.

We Rastafarians believe in the Creed of the Apostles and in the Creed of Nicea; in the Teachings of the Fathers of the Oriental Orthodox Churches, as  handed down to us by the Holy Tradition of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church; in the Trinitarian, Christological, Traditional and Hermeneutical Teachings of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
We do consider ourselves fully Ethiopian Orthodox Christians, and we will always follow the Doctrine of the Original Apostolic Church, as declared in oath by His Imperial Majesty Qadamawi  Haile Selassie at the Time of His Coronation,  in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia; we shall always seek, until the day of our departure, to get all the Seven Sacraments, and teach our children to do as such.

Accordingly with Ethiopian Orthodox Tradition, we do believe that the risen Christ must come again in the same Immortal Resurrected Flesh, to reign for one thousand years on earth, sitting on the Throne of King David; that in His Second Coming, as Revelation 12 goes, He must be born of a woman in travail, even though not taking new flesh from her, being eternally the son of Virgin Mary.
During this time the first resurrection must take place.
Then, at the end of the Millennium, the Dragon He had imprisoned (Revelation 20) must be freed for a time; after this, the Book of Life will be opened and the dead judged, and thus He will give unto His Father the eternal Kingdom, to rule on the Heavenly Jerusalem, according to 1 Cor 15, 22- 28.

Our faith is that H.I.M. Qadamawi Haile Selassie, meaning "The First - Power of the Trinity" is the returned Christ, to Whom was given "honour, and glory (Majesty), and power ("Haile"), and Who has come as it is written: " they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power (Haile) and great glory (Majesty)".
He has officially received the Christic Titles of King of kings, Lord of lords (Revelation 17, 5), Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Revelation 5,5), Elect of God 8Daniel 9, 25), Light of the Word (John 1, 9).
He has a New Name, as prophesied in Revelation 3, 12: “and I will right My New Name”, which is Terrible and Dreadful among the heathen.
He is the only descendent of the Davidic Lineage on earth to sit on His father’s Throne, and the Only Reigning Monarch to receive such Titles in the XX Century; to Him all kings of the west and east bowed, the Only Sovereign Ruler on the African Continent.
For us,  He is unblemished and immaculate, and He does not know sin; the world media as well as Ethiopians denied His works and tried to darken His worthy and miraculous Deeds, in Academic Institution and within the public opinion. But we all have proves of His sanctity, and documentations to show the world.
He never declared His Divinity nor His Righteousness, as He did in the First coming; otherwise, mankind should have rejected Him, as Christ Jesus warned against false self appointed christs.

Q.H.S. is not dead, according to us; He disappeared in mysterious circumstances in 1975, and His Body was not not found until 1992, when the Federal and self appointed government of Ethiopia unearthed  several bones out of a common cave, claiming they belonged to HIM; even though requested, DNA test was officially denied and it has been confirmed that the size of the bones was in no case corresponding to that of the King of kings’ Body. Still much confusion reigns on this issue, and many and discordant are the justifications given.

Although the Ethiopian Orthodox Church once accepted our view and celebrated His Majesty as we do, sometime they try to rebuke HIM and throw shadows  upon Rastafari Faith.
Notwithstanding this, as said before, there is no reason why should a theologically well educated Ethiopian deny the Divinity of Q.H.S., which has nothing contrary to Ethiopian Traditional belief and expectations.

All our practices are consistent with Ethiopian Orthodox Traditional customs –both of lay as monastic life-, and within our Faith nothing is based on fashion, moral disorder, or delinquency.

We consider those who call themselves Rastafarians and do not worship Qadamawi Haile Selassie, we do consider them unduly exploiting and bearing the Holy Name of Our Emperor and God, and many amongst them are embracing arian theories in denying the Divinity of Qadamawi Haile Selassie.

I consider Rastafarian presence in an Orthodox forums a rightful presence, since we do make part of the family of the Oriental Orthodox Churches, according to the Words delivered by Q.H.S. on the occasion of the Oriental Orthodox Churches Addis Ababa Conference of 1965, organized by H.I.M., Who is the Only King for the Five Churches, in the XX Century.

Thank you for reading , and blessed be your effort in understanding our faith


Qadamawi Egziabeher  ymasgan hullu ghizie
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 12:10:36 PM »

The Orthodox Church denies the idea of a second Incarnation, that God will be born as a man a second time. Such a belief makes a mockery of Orthodox Christology. The idea that Haile Selassie is the second coming of Christ is absolutely incompatible with Orthodox Christianity and rightly condemned by the Holy Orthodox Church. Furthermore, the idea of Christ reigning for 1000 years over an earthly kingdom is known as chiliasm and was condemned by the Second Ecumenical Council.
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2010, 05:26:02 PM »

I said:

"He must be born of a woman in travail, even though not taking new flesh from her, being eternally the son of Virgin Mary".

There is no "second incarnation".  He just gets into the womb of a woman, and His Flesh is the Eternal Flesh inherited from Virgin Mary.

The Council of Constantinople banned chiliaism?
It condemned the idea of Apollinarius, who used the fact that the Kingdom of the Son must last one hundred years to argue that the Son was inferior to the Father, Who's Kingdom would have lasted "for ever"; in truth, the Scriptures clearly state that the Everlasting Kingdom will be of the Father, and of course, of the Trinity.
Thus, the Fathers of Constantinople banned the use Apollinarius made of chiliaism, not chiliaism itself.

I Cor 15, 22 - 25 says: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (-FIRST COMING-); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (-SECOND COMING, THE MILLENNIUM).
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father (-ETERNAL KINGDOM-); when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet (-IN HIS KINGDOM, BEFORE THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER-).


Amlakachin Yetbarek Amin
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2010, 05:36:10 PM »

I said:

"He must be born of a woman in travail, even though not taking new flesh from her, being eternally the son of Virgin Mary".

There is no "second incarnation".  He just gets into the womb of a woman, and His Flesh is the Eternal Flesh inherited from Virgin Mary.


Quote
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
Acts 1, 10-11
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 05:39:13 PM »

The Orthodox Church denies the idea of a second Incarnation, that God will be born as a man a second time. Such a belief makes a mockery of Orthodox Christology. The idea that Haile Selassie is the second coming of Christ is absolutely incompatible with Orthodox Christianity and rightly condemned by the Holy Orthodox Church. Furthermore, the idea of Christ reigning for 1000 years over an earthly kingdom is known as chiliasm and was condemned by the Second Ecumenical Council.

Yes. You are correct.

The Rastafari movement embraces Ethiopian culture, but its biblical hermeneutic is much more Evangelical than Orthodox. Rastafari was deeply shaped by the Revivalist movements in the Carribean islands.

I love my Rastafari brethren, but Wolde Negus is patently wrong to assert that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church once accepted the Rastafarian view of the divinity of His Majesty. This is false, and such a claim must not be allowed to go without immediate correction.

Many Rastas have entered into the Church through the waters of baptism, and in so doing they have left their idolatry behind. But some Rastas - such as our friend Wolde Negus - continue to try to syncretize Orthodoxy with Selassie worship. This cannot be done, as Orthodoxy is the pure and undiluted apostolic Christian Faith.

I shall always love His Imperial Majesty, and in fact I see H.I.M. as an icon of Christ. But he is NOT Eyesus Kristos, and he was deeply grieved when he learned of those who viewed him as such. His Majesty was the Defender of the Faith, and his greatest desire was that the Orthodox Faith be embraced by all men everywhere.

Thank you for your opinions Wolde Negus, but please know that they ARE NOT compatible with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.


Selam
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2010, 04:35:08 PM »

Egziabeher Amlakacchin Ytbarek

Concerning the Council of Constantinople, I have alredy answered above, and I humbly ask to read my words.

Gebre Menfes Qedus, you said:

"The Rastafari movement embraces Ethiopian culture, but its biblical hermeneutic is much more Evangelical than Orthodox. Rastafari was deeply shaped by the Revivalist movements in the Carribean islands."

Haile Selassie I appealed to all men, and particulary to the afro-american slave descendants, as Eyesus did it first with the twelve Tribes in Israel; among the afro-american slave descendants, many were practicing, or were offsprings of believers of, revivalist afro centred cults within the Black African Diaspora. Such cults were trying to shape the imposed european false religion mixing it with west african animistic elements,  in order to recall the old african origins amongst the generations.
Rastafari called all those who were subject to colonial joke and legacy, and those who felt more deeply the need of Repatriation and Reparation suddenly understood that the King of kings had come to free them and bring them back to the promised home land, Ethiopia. But these first Rastafari believers, notwithstanding their family background that allowed them to be more aware of Afica, brought nothing Revivalist within Rastafari, being authentic orthodox.
And in Rastafari you have no Evangelical element; should I also say, calling Ethiopian Orthodox people "Evangelical", would be like an insult, since Rastafarians are among the very few people who are trying to keep Ethiopian spiritual heritage unpolluted and untouched by western religions.

"I love my Rastafari brethren, but Wolde Negus is patently wrong to assert that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church once accepted the Rastafarian view of the divinity of His Majesty. This is false, and such a claim must not be allowed to go without immediate correction."

I can give many prooves of what I've stated and will state again; so to start with one, I might recall the Rastafarian presence in the clergy of the Ethiopian Orthodox Western Emisphere Churches headed by Abune Yesehaq.


"Many Rastas have entered into the Church through the waters of baptism, and in so doing they have left their idolatry behind. But some Rastas - such as our friend Wolde Negus - continue to try to syncretize Orthodoxy with Selassie worship. This cannot be done, as Orthodoxy is the pure and undiluted apostolic Christian Faith. "

I think this is the main point of Confrontation. In my first message I have given detailed motivations of our believe and knowledge, based on the Biblical and Apostolic Doctrine. It would be good for you to do the same, otherwise we will find no object of discussion.

"I shall always love His Imperial Majesty, and in fact I see H.I.M. as an icon of Christ".


Let me ask: what's the different between a representation of Christ, and Christ's true Image?

"But he is NOT Eyesus Kristos, and he was deeply grieved when he learned of those who viewed him as such"

In truth this never happened. There is no way  to proove such statement by H.I.M.


"But please know that they ARE NOT compatible with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church."

I invite you again to talk in Tewahedo theological terms.


Qadamawi the First of Creation be praised
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 06:53:18 PM »

Let me ask: what's the different between a representation of Christ, and Christ's true Image?

The Bishop is an icon of Christ in the Divine Liturgy, but we do not worship our Bishops or believe that they are God.
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 10:48:27 PM »

Egziabeher Amlakacchin Ytbarek

Concerning the Council of Constantinople, I have alredy answered above, and I humbly ask to read my words.

Gebre Menfes Qedus, you said:

"The Rastafari movement embraces Ethiopian culture, but its biblical hermeneutic is much more Evangelical than Orthodox. Rastafari was deeply shaped by the Revivalist movements in the Carribean islands."

Haile Selassie I appealed to all men, and particulary to the afro-american slave descendants, as Eyesus did it first with the twelve Tribes in Israel; among the afro-american slave descendants, many were practicing, or were offsprings of believers of, revivalist afro centred cults within the Black African Diaspora. Such cults were trying to shape the imposed european false religion mixing it with west african animistic elements,  in order to recall the old african origins amongst the generations.
Rastafari called all those who were subject to colonial joke and legacy, and those who felt more deeply the need of Repatriation and Reparation suddenly understood that the King of kings had come to free them and bring them back to the promised home land, Ethiopia. But these first Rastafari believers, notwithstanding their family background that allowed them to be more aware of Afica, brought nothing Revivalist within Rastafari, being authentic orthodox.
And in Rastafari you have no Evangelical element; should I also say, calling Ethiopian Orthodox people "Evangelical", would be like an insult, since Rastafarians are among the very few people who are trying to keep Ethiopian spiritual heritage unpolluted and untouched by western religions.

"I love my Rastafari brethren, but Wolde Negus is patently wrong to assert that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church once accepted the Rastafarian view of the divinity of His Majesty. This is false, and such a claim must not be allowed to go without immediate correction."

I can give many prooves of what I've stated and will state again; so to start with one, I might recall the Rastafarian presence in the clergy of the Ethiopian Orthodox Western Emisphere Churches headed by Abune Yesehaq.


"Many Rastas have entered into the Church through the waters of baptism, and in so doing they have left their idolatry behind. But some Rastas - such as our friend Wolde Negus - continue to try to syncretize Orthodoxy with Selassie worship. This cannot be done, as Orthodoxy is the pure and undiluted apostolic Christian Faith. "

I think this is the main point of Confrontation. In my first message I have given detailed motivations of our believe and knowledge, based on the Biblical and Apostolic Doctrine. It would be good for you to do the same, otherwise we will find no object of discussion.

"I shall always love His Imperial Majesty, and in fact I see H.I.M. as an icon of Christ".


Let me ask: what's the different between a representation of Christ, and Christ's true Image?

"But he is NOT Eyesus Kristos, and he was deeply grieved when he learned of those who viewed him as such"

In truth this never happened. There is no way  to proove such statement by H.I.M.


"But please know that they ARE NOT compatible with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church."

I invite you again to talk in Tewahedo theological terms.


Qadamawi the First of Creation be praised


Dear Wolde Negus,

It is not my desire to denigrate Rastafari, for to do so would be to denigrate myself. Nor am I interested in proving or disproving your assertions or mine. I simply mean to promote the doctrine and Faith of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, and to make sure others understand that we Ethiopian Orthodox Christians worship Jesus Christ and not Emperor Haile Selassie I.

It is true that some Rastas have entered the Church through baptism while privately maintaining their belief that H.I.M. is Christ. I pass no judgment on these Rastas, other than to say that their personal beliefs are not in accordance with the Teachings and Traditions of the Orthodox Faith.

Many Rastas demanded that Abbatachin (Archbishop Yesehaq) baptize them in Ras Tafari's name, but Abuna Yesehaq was adamant that he would do no such thing. He clearly explained that those entering the Church must do so in complete acceptance of the doctrinal purity of the Orthodox Church. Abbatachin did not demand that Rastas cut off their locks or stop using Ganja, but he was emphatic in insisting that those entering the Church must only worship Jesus Christ, not Haile Selassie.

As a baptized member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, I must labor to preserve our Faith from the assaults of false doctrines and subversive cultural influences- whether they be the cultish influences of Western Evangelicalism, or the idolatrous influences of Selassie worship.

As His Majesty said, every man is free to worship what, who, and how they choose. But those who desire to truly worship Christ and to be part of His Church must worship according the Teachings and Traditions of His Church, not according to their own subjective opinions and desires.

Let those who want to follow His Majesty fully embrace the doctrines of the Church; but let those who want to worship Haile Selassie leave the Church alone.


Peace and love to you my brother. Smiley


Selam
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2010, 06:30:14 AM »

Gebre Menfes Qedus,

dear Brother, it would be good to have a theological basis wereupon to star a constructive discussion. For the second time, even after my reply, you are saying Rastafari is not Orthodox in doctrine only asserting it cannot be; but you have not explained in clear theological Tewahedo terms why should it not be. Which are the Ethiopian Fathers who, in their theological works, condemn Rastafari creed? Which Scriptural passage? Which Holy Synod resolution?

Rastafari is not only admiring H.I.M.; it is rather believing in HIM as the True Wolde Egziabeher, Son of God, came back in clouds. There is no other way to describe Rastafari, and those who bear such a terrible (Tefer) Name, should consider this fact seriously. Preaching new aryan doctrines of Haile Selassie I as a man in whom God revealed Himself, or upholding formulas as "Jesus Christ, revealed in the personality of Qadamawi Haile Selassie", belongs only to schismatics movement within our faith, that embraced a new doctrine of a kind of deluted Christianity, not well clear in its belief.
In Ethiopia ther has never been a Movement which bore the Name of a man, and, even of a King; it's different from western standard of thinking basing one's own doctrine and living upon a man's teaching, as the Benedectines, of Francescans and so on and so forth.
If we bear the name of a Man, it is because it is written: they shall bear My Name, Terrible and Dreadful among the heathen.


Of course Abatachin Abune Yesehaq could not accept to baptise in the Name of Rastafari, because it is only right and just that the Ethiopian Baptismal Tradition be kept; when we Cross our Selves we do not chang the formula "Be sem-e Ab we Wold we Menfes Qedus Ahadu Amlak Amin", and why should we change the baptismal formula, or other Tewahedo holy Traditions? If some Rastafari brethren asked Abune to to that, it was because they were lacking theological fundamentals, gaps that had to be filled for the faith in HIM to be strenghtened: this was the aim of sending Abuna Mandefro to Jamaica.
Further more, if Abuna Yesehaq ever denied the divinity of HIM, it was after much time he left Ethiopia for the West; in the beginning he thaught Rastafarians a true Rastafarian conscience and doctrine according to the faith in HIM; Abba's work witness such things.
And , the fact that Rastafarians were among the clergy is of great importance, since according to Canon Law, no heretic may enter to Gos' presence in the Temple. If you are aware of Ethiopian traditional and historic struggle against heretical doctrines, you would sight this fact.

If you are so good following the Ways of Janhoy (His Majesty), then why don't you look at the fact that, even being the greatest and most famous world leader of His Time, He never declared pubicly, or even when He went to Jamaica, that He is not God? Was not in His power to do so?
He never claimed to be Christ (according to Matthew 24), and still He never announced Rastafari were wrong in their belief; not a letter, not a telegram, not a booklet: nothing.

All Honour (Majesty) and Power (Haile) to the Might of the Trinity, God Almighty, Defender of the poor and afflicted.

Let Egziabeher be praised in Holy Mt. Zion I.

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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2010, 08:39:53 AM »

Wolde Negus-

You are right that there will be many false Christs, but the Lord, when he returns, will not only claim to be Christ, it will be obvious and undeniable to all: "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Mat. 24:27) This is why we confess in the Creed, "He shall come again with glory..." Many people in Ethiopia and around the world admired and loved this Emperor, but they did not recognize his divinity- is that because they rejected Christ?

The supposed millenial reign, in the Chiliast model, is supposed to bring peace... why was Emperor Haile Selassie unable to bring peace even to Ethiopia? How could this supposed "King of Kings" be overthrown by Marxists in his own country?

Finally, if you are really convinced that Haile Selassie was/ is God, are you preaching this forcefully at your own Ethiopian parish? Are you vociferously petitioning your bishop to recognize this? Are you agitating for this great truth to be synodically proclaimed? Because that's what you should be doing with such an important revelation. Belief in the first coming isn't optional for Christians, why should belief in the second coming be?
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2010, 04:04:45 PM »

Wolde Negus,

I'm trying to understand you:  Are you saying that His Imperial Majesty was Jesus Christ come a second time, and that this is the teaching of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church?

If this is the case, then this would be a significant development, significant enough that the EOTC would have produced writings affirming this.  Can you link to anything printed by a hierarch of the EOTC stating that His Imperial Majesty is Jesus Christ?
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2010, 08:28:28 PM »

"To live in this healthy life, a Christian life, is what makes me follow Jesus Christ." - Haile Selassie

H.I.M. was a follower of the True God and Savior Jesus Christ. He sent missionaries of the Ethiopian Church to Jamaica to bring those who falsely worshiped him to the true worship of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church does not teach that Haile Selassie is the second coming.
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2010, 12:33:57 AM »

In June 24th 1968, the Coptic Orthodox Church received the relics of the great evangelist, martyr and Apostle, St. Mark, who started the Church of Alexandria, and whose Apostolic succession continues into the Ethiopian and Eritrean churches.  HIM Haile Selassie attended the event of the reception of the relics of St. Mark recorded in this video here (which you need to extract and then use real player to play it):

http://www.zeitun-eg.net/stcyril6/stcyril6_v19.zip

In this video some key parts that I'd like to concentrate on:

At 1:13, you see HH Pope Kyrillos VI, the Pope of Alexandria at the time, who HIM loved very dearly and was very close to, bless HIM with the Cross without any hesitation, knowing that in the order of Holy Orders, due respect is given to HH the Pope at any time, and even HIM is not to sit down in his presence.

At 1:42-2:08, and again at 13:05, HIM is holding HH the Pope's hand very tightly.  This shows the love and affection HIM had for HH, and looked up to HH as a true spiritual guide for him and a saint.  If you notice, HIM is holding HH's hand as a sign of his need for a spiritual leader, and HH is holding his hand like a father holds his son's hand.

At 5:30-6:30, you first see HIM standing along with the rest of the congregation during the Prayer of the Fractions.  During this Prayer, HH the Pope is breaking the Holy Qurbana, the body of Christ in the altar to be distributed by his hand alone.  In the Coptic Church, the one who is of the highest rank in the Church is the one who will is to be the Icon of Christ as Christ was in the Last Supper, breaking bread, and saying "This is my Body" and distributing the Body and Blood of Christ (the Eucharist) as Christ did the same in the Last Supper.  At the very end of this minute, you will here just a second or two long of the deacons singing Psalm 150, and you will see a snippet of HH distributing the Eucharist.  It is very well known, HIM Haile Selassie partook of the Eucharist out of HH the Pope's hands, just as the disciples took the Eucharist out of Christ's hands.

Before the 10th minute in this video, HIM sits down waiting for the relics of St. Mark.  At the 10th minute, as soon as the relics appear and HH the Pope appears, HIM STANDS up in reverence both to the relics and to the Pope.  The Emperor himself shows by this that he is inferior both to St. Mark and to HH the Pope.

What can we learn from this?  If HIM was Christ, it should be he who would bless HH the Pope with the cross, but without any hesitation, HH the Pope did just the opposite.  If HIM was Christ, HH the Pope would hold his hand like a disciple to Christ, but it is very clear with the humbleness HIM shows, it is HH the Pope who is the fatherhead and spiritual leader to HIM.  If HIM was Christ, HIM would be the one praying the Prayer of the Fraction, breaking the Body and Blood of his very own to distribute to the congregation, as Christ did to the Apostles.  But instead, HH the Pope was the one who gave communion to HIM, and HH the Pope is considered as this moment the icon of Christ, and not HIM.  If HIM was Christ, he would not need to kiss the relics of St. Mark, but instead bless the relics, and he would not need to stand in the presence of HH the Pope, but rather, HH the Pope would be the one waiting for the relics at one end, and HIM leading the procession to bury the relics at the other while HH the Pope would stand in his presence for reverence.  However, that did not happen.

The Coptic Church teachings that in a liturgical setting, indeed HH the Pope was the icon of Christ.  Outside the liturgical setting, we are all icons of Christ.  When we were baptized, as St. Paul teaches, we put on Christ, and as St. John teaches in his Revelations, we are all priests and kings.  We forbid any other worship except to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the One God.  Haile Selassie is clearly not Christ re-incarnate, and in fact, if you visit the Monastery/Cathedral of St. Mina in Alexandria, Egypt, you will even see photos of HIM bowing down and kissing the hand of HH Pope Kyrillos, and NEVER the other way around.

How can he be truly Christ, if he shows himself inferior to the bishops and priests and patriarchs who condemn the worship of Haile Selassie?

The prayers of St. Mark, St. Mina, HH St. Pope Kyrillos VI, and Haile Selassie be with us all, Amen!
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2010, 12:55:32 AM »

In June 24th 1968, the Coptic Orthodox Church received the relics of the great evangelist, martyr and Apostle, St. Mark, who started the Church of Alexandria, and whose Apostolic succession continues into the Ethiopian and Eritrean churches.  HIM Haile Selassie attended the event of the reception of the relics of St. Mark recorded in this video here (which you need to extract and then use real player to play it):

http://www.zeitun-eg.net/stcyril6/stcyril6_v19.zip

In this video some key parts that I'd like to concentrate on:

At 1:13, you see HH Pope Kyrillos VI, the Pope of Alexandria at the time, who HIM loved very dearly and was very close to, bless HIM with the Cross without any hesitation, knowing that in the order of Holy Orders, due respect is given to HH the Pope at any time, and even HIM is not to sit down in his presence.

At 1:42-2:08, and again at 13:05, HIM is holding HH the Pope's hand very tightly.  This shows the love and affection HIM had for HH, and looked up to HH as a true spiritual guide for him and a saint.  If you notice, HIM is holding HH's hand as a sign of his need for a spiritual leader, and HH is holding his hand like a father holds his son's hand.

At 5:30-6:30, you first see HIM standing along with the rest of the congregation during the Prayer of the Fractions.  During this Prayer, HH the Pope is breaking the Holy Qurbana, the body of Christ in the altar to be distributed by his hand alone.  In the Coptic Church, the one who is of the highest rank in the Church is the one who will is to be the Icon of Christ as Christ was in the Last Supper, breaking bread, and saying "This is my Body" and distributing the Body and Blood of Christ (the Eucharist) as Christ did the same in the Last Supper.  At the very end of this minute, you will here just a second or two long of the deacons singing Psalm 150, and you will see a snippet of HH distributing the Eucharist.  It is very well known, HIM Haile Selassie partook of the Eucharist out of HH the Pope's hands, just as the disciples took the Eucharist out of Christ's hands.

Before the 10th minute in this video, HIM sits down waiting for the relics of St. Mark.  At the 10th minute, as soon as the relics appear and HH the Pope appears, HIM STANDS up in reverence both to the relics and to the Pope.  The Emperor himself shows by this that he is inferior both to St. Mark and to HH the Pope.

What can we learn from this?  If HIM was Christ, it should be he who would bless HH the Pope with the cross, but without any hesitation, HH the Pope did just the opposite.  If HIM was Christ, HH the Pope would hold his hand like a disciple to Christ, but it is very clear with the humbleness HIM shows, it is HH the Pope who is the fatherhead and spiritual leader to HIM.  If HIM was Christ, HIM would be the one praying the Prayer of the Fraction, breaking the Body and Blood of his very own to distribute to the congregation, as Christ did to the Apostles.  But instead, HH the Pope was the one who gave communion to HIM, and HH the Pope is considered as this moment the icon of Christ, and not HIM.  If HIM was Christ, he would not need to kiss the relics of St. Mark, but instead bless the relics, and he would not need to stand in the presence of HH the Pope, but rather, HH the Pope would be the one waiting for the relics at one end, and HIM leading the procession to bury the relics at the other while HH the Pope would stand in his presence for reverence.  However, that did not happen.

The Coptic Church teachings that in a liturgical setting, indeed HH the Pope was the icon of Christ.  Outside the liturgical setting, we are all icons of Christ.  When we were baptized, as St. Paul teaches, we put on Christ, and as St. John teaches in his Revelations, we are all priests and kings.  We forbid any other worship except to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the One God.  Haile Selassie is clearly not Christ re-incarnate, and in fact, if you visit the Monastery/Cathedral of St. Mina in Alexandria, Egypt, you will even see photos of HIM bowing down and kissing the hand of HH Pope Kyrillos, and NEVER the other way around.

How can he be truly Christ, if he shows himself inferior to the bishops and priests and patriarchs who condemn the worship of Haile Selassie?

The prayers of St. Mark, St. Mina, HH St. Pope Kyrillos VI, and Haile Selassie be with us all, Amen!

An excellent post. Thank you Mina.

Those who worship Haile Selassie will probably not be persuaded by these facts. They will point out that Christ was baptized by John the Baptist, and that Our Lord washed His disciples feet. So, His Majesty's examples of humility and obeisance are only seen as more evidence that he is Christ.

But I hope your words and this video will be used by God to open their hearts to the truth.

Thanks again my brother.


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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2010, 01:11:46 AM »

Indeed, I did think of the example of John the Baptist.  The difference is John the Baptist is also called a Forerunner.  When he recognized Christ, he hesitated and did not want to baptize Him, but Christ told him to baptize Him, as if permission was given.  Permission was not given between HH Pope Kyrillos and HIM.  HH the Pope as if second nature blessed HIM without any hesitation.

John the Forerunner is also a witness and proclaimed the man He just baptized to be the Christ.  HH the Pope did no such thing.  He never became a forerunner to Haile Selassie's alleged Messianic status.

Finally, John the Forerunner did what he proclaimed, "He must increase and I must decrease," and from then on, Christ ordained His disciples to baptize many.  HIM never ordained or had the authority to ordain anyone to baptize.  It was in fact HH Pope Kyrillos who held the power of ordination of many bishops and priests and even the first Patriarch of Ethiopia to baptize many in the name of the FAther, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Finally, John the Forerunner ends an era of Levitical priesthood and introduces us to the Melchizedek priesthood of Christ.  HH Pope Kyrillos was ordained, as St. Paul teaches in Hebrews, according to the order of Melchizedek.  If HIM was Christ, it would be blasphemous to hold a cross on his head.  The law has been already fulfilled by Christ through John's baptism, and it would therefore hold no water to consider some sort of "humility" in between HH the Pope and HIM.

Therefore, the comparison between HH Pope Kyrillos and John the Baptist and Forerunner holds no water, and in the context of everything else this video shows, there's an inconsistency between those who are deluded by the idea that HIM is Christ and what HIM actually is in this video, no more than a human being like you and me, who prays for us like any saint would.
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« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2010, 01:16:09 AM »

"To live in this healthy life, a Christian life, is what makes me follow Jesus Christ." - Haile Selassie

H.I.M. was a follower of the True God and Savior Jesus Christ. He sent missionaries of the Ethiopian Church to Jamaica to bring those who falsely worshiped him to the true worship of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church does not teach that Haile Selassie is the second coming.

We all know this already...
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2010, 11:26:40 AM »

What made the Rastafarians believe that Halie Selassie was God?
I think it's a very unusual claim, just to think that they were Orthodox
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2010, 11:35:49 AM »

What made the Rastafarians believe that Halie Selassie was God?
I think it's a very unusual claim, just to think that they were Orthodox

The founders of the movement were not Orthodox.

Here is something about their history:

http://www.voskrese.info/spl/rasta-hist.html
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2010, 09:35:40 PM »

Greetings in the Name of the Most High Qadamawi Haile Selassie, the Lion of Judah

I thank you for your replies, since you all demonstrated good will in discussion, displaying theological and historical arguments.

Let me say, before starting to reply to your arguments, that it was not my intention to raise a issue concerning Icons; of course we are all Icons of God, from the beginning of creation, and of course Christ reestablished this holy lost resemblance to God, through His Sacrifice.
My words concerning the “Icon”, was in relation to the post by Gebre Menfes Qedus; in fact, it often happens that some, calling themselves Rastafarians, do not worship Qadamawi Haile Selassie and do not understand His being the Son of the Father, but rather they deny His Divinity and give Him a place in their spiritual life which resemble that given to God, even though they don’t call Him God. Such movements are heretical, and mostly concern the organization called Twelve Tribes of Israel, headed by Vernon Carrington (to whom it pleases to be called “Prophet Gad” – prophet of himself, I say instead). The 12 Tribes of Israel describe their doctrine with ambiguous formulas, such as “We believe in Jesus Christ, Who revealed Himself in the Personality of Haile Selassie I”, or others. Well, such formulas are truly non orthodox in themselves, and of course non Ethiopian, since they should appear  in relation also with other saints in the long course of 2000 of Christian Ethiopia history, if Haile Selassie I is just a saint, like many others; so it should be said also for Qedus Tekle Haymanot, Abba Gebre Menfes Qedus, Qedus Abreham, Ysaq, Yaqob, and so on. While they call themselves Rastafarians, in the history of Our Mother the Church, no one ever called himself “Teklehaymanotian”, or “Yesahaqian”, and so on, with the name of a man, or of a saint.
It just resemble the behaviour of arius, who called himself christian even when he did not believe in the Divinity of the Son; he denied the Divinity of the Son, and yet called himself by His Name. If Christ was not God, before arius others should have called themselves by the name of other saints; in stead: NO. Christ, to arius was a special being, but not God, neighter man: an unclear doctrine is an heretical doctrine.
These are just the results of schisms and heresy within the Faith of God, as in every other circumstance the Fathers witnessed in the time of the Great Councils that condemned the heretics, Arius, Macedonius, Nestorius and so forth.
Thus, saying Haile Selassie I is an Icon of Christ, as told by Gebre Menfes Qedus, who calls himself Rastafarian or very in line with Rastafari principles, could have ambiguous meanings, born of renouncing theories, as Carrington’s. Of course, for us, Haile Selassie I is the True Image of Christ, the perfect Icon, the Photograph with historical and actual proportions; as it was said, in fact, “All shall see H.I.M.”, in that Day.
For us He is the perfect Icon.
But it should be for others also, since which closest face to Christ’s could one find, if not that of a –true- descendant of Selomon?

Said this, many things have been uttered, and surely important facts have been pointed out.

It seems that the most important is that of Qadamawi Haile Selassie’s Divinity and the Ethiopian Church.
Let me show in simple ways. As first thing, the Doctrine of Chiliasm is officially accepted by the Church, and, just to quote one source, one might understand it reading the” Mesthafe Mestir”, the Book of Mystery, by Abba Gyorghis of Sagla, one of the most important Fathers and Theologians of Our Church.
In relation to the teaching of the Church concerning the Divinity of H.I.M., there are many facts at our disposal to get an understanding of the question.

a) The royal house of Ethiopia, of Davidic Lineage, always displayed her official motto “The Lion of Judah hath prevaileth” (Rev 5,5); it always followed the name of the emperor, and even of the empress when she ruled alone. This may be proof of the fact that it was not referring to the person in itself, but to the royal dignity, as directly descending from Judah, and thus able to be the line thru which Christ would reveal Himself in the Parousìa.
No other king received it as “title”, but only as regal “motto” of the House of David. Now, only Qadamawi Haile Selassie was officially called “Conquering Lion of Judah”, or simply “Anbessa” (Lion). This mean that the Motto becomes Attribute, because Christ hath prevaileth, and became “Conquering”. This Attribute is acknowledged by the Whole Church , and, since it is not scriptural, it is the fruit of the active and contextualizing interpretation of the Church given to Revelation 5,5 which only announces that the Lion will conquer,  but does not call Him “Conquering Lion”.

b) Another title of the King is “Light of the World”. No kings on earth, in the Orthodox context, has ever been called this way, and I let you understand its evangelical meaning.

c) Ethiopians are very strict in their behavior, and nothing would they accept if not fully confirmed by Holy Scripture and Tradition (many may prove this fact here); therefore these acknowledgments are worthy of consideration. Let me add, in Ethiopian history a debate was raised on the legitimacy of bowing to a human king, and many resolved it was very close to idolatry. Well, there is no Ethiopian, layman or clergyman, who didn’t kiss the ground before Haile Selassie I, in this time.

d) Before Q.H.S. the Ethiopian Church was under the rule of the Coptic Church of Alexandria, because of many reasons I will not recall now. Until that time, the Head of the Church was an egyptian Metropolitan, appointed by the Patriarch of Alexandria, and no ethiopian bishop could be appointed -only priests and deacons. When Q.H.S. came, He liberated the Church, after 1600 years of bondage and dependence from Alexandria, and the Church achieved full Autocephaly.
From this time on, all the Bishops of the Church (from Bishop to Patriarch) had to be accepted by the King to be ordained. Therefore, Haile Selassie I is the Head of the Church: none before Him had been, and surely none after Him will be, since He’s the last King of kings of the line of David (see Genesis 49 “The scepter shall not depart…”).

e) When Rastafarians went to Ethiopia in the 60s, they were warmly received by the then reigning Abuna (Patriarch), who gave them Ethiopian national dresses bearing the titles of “Dejasmatch” which is a high rank in the Ethiopian Traditional system (think that they were Jamaicans, just landed in Ethiopia, and at the airport they were suddenly taken and brought by the clergy in Abuna’s palace).
When they met with Abuna and exposed their Faith, Abuna said “The Bible can be interpreted this way”. We have written testimony of thist, by the Elder Ras Douglas Mack, in his “From Babylon to Rastafari”.

f) I will conclude in short, quoting Abba Yesehaq, sent to Jamaica by Q.H.S. to bring the Holy Tradition to Rastafarians, who did not know of the Ethiopian Church, because of white catholic and protestant spiritual enslavement. He did this just to give them the Basis upon which to found the Faith, and not to make them loose faith in H.I.M. Even though Abba Yesehaq denied His Majesty, it was only after the rise of the Derg and the deposition of the King.
He said: “Well, Yes, I am the Rasta Bishop”. “From my own experiences with Rastafarians since my first visit to the island last year, I know them to be an honest, peace loving, God-fearing and very creative people and by their membership in an ancient Christian Church obviously do not oppose Christianity."
  (All this you may find at www.abbayesehaq.com)

Some people claim His Majesty denied His Divinity, but this never happened, or, at most, there is no official Speech or Declaration, nor is it confirmed by the Imperial Government. Rather, it is well known that some governments asked Q.H.S. to publicly rebuke Rastafarians, in order for them to be weakened in their requests of Social Justice and Repatriation to Africa. But Q.H.S. refused to do so.
Now, if He never did it, would the Church, as it does, consider HIM a Holy Man yet? Would not the Church have told and imposed on HIM to explain Rastafarians He is not what they think He is?
In Ethiopia such silence would have been considered as heresy, or sin. But it was not.

The Church Canon forbids pagans to go near the Altar or to be called Christians, or even to be talked to. Why did Rasta enter the clergy, got baptized, and were fully accepted by the Church? It is because it is apparent that we don’t claim no superiority on the Church, and that we accept fully the orthodox doctrine, and our way is righteous, and there is no point of the faith we might oppose.

Last thing on the subject of Ethiopian Church and HIM: Rastafari is wide spread in Ethiopia, and if the Church had in mind to declare Rastafari as “heresy”, She could have done it already, in a very simple way, with a Holy Synod resolution. But: nothing at all. Should I add, Abuna Pawlos even released an interview   where he says Rastafarians may do their things in peace and with no problem at all.

Let us now look on what the other Oriental Churches have to say about H.I.M.

At the Conference of the Oriental Orthodox Churches, convened in in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, in 1965, by Haile Selassie I, the Patriarchs so spoke in very inspired and prophetic ways, in regard to the Ministry of His Majesty:
“Your Imperial Majesty, Holy Fathers, Eminent Brothers, Clergy and People.
It is with a heart full of joy and thankfulness that I stand here today. I am reminded of the words of the old Simon when he saw the child Jesus. Simon had been waiting to see the consolation of Israel. When he saw the child Jesus, he knew that salvation had come to his people. His heart was filled with joy and he sang to the glory of God.” (H.M MORAN MAR BASELIOS AUGEN I CATHOLICOS OF THE EAST )

“In this blessed city, we have gained a new vision of the glorious vocation of the Church. The Bride of Christ is arrayed in the glory of her Bridegroom, and we rejoice. We sing with the Prophet Isaiah “Enlarge the place of the tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy slakes; for thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited:. (Isa. 54: 2-3)” (H.M MORAN MAR BASELIOS AUGEN I CATHOLICOS OF THE EAST )

I would also like to remember to one and all, that the fact that the Davidic Monarchy and the Ark of the Covenant are found in Ethiopia is not a “claim” of Ethiopians, as some said, but it is acknowledged by the other Oriental Orthodox Churches. Proof of this, are, amongst many, the words pronounced by the Patriarch of Alexandria and the Metropolitan at the time of the Coronation of His Majesty, where a reference is made to the Davidic Lineage of Haile Selassie I.
And with this, I remind you of the fact that Q.H.S. Is the only King of the Five Oriental Orthodox Churches, as declared by H.H. MORAN MAR IGNATIUS YACUB III :
“We have always prayed for Him as our one and only Orthodox King”

I have reported all this facts and testimonies to show how the Church,silently,knows Who Q.H.S. is.
But it is clear that, even if the Church officially denied the Divinity of Qadamawi Haile Selassie, as some times She tries to do, it would not be a surprise for anyone, since in the Times of the first Coming, the Synagogue strongly opposed Christianity, even though many knew the truth, but did not confess it due to fear of men.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 09:40:13 PM by Wolde Negus » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2010, 09:40:34 PM »

Icondule:

Christ had not to declare His Divinity and His being Christ, because, according to Matthew 24, false christs would be recognized by their calling themselves “Christ”, “here and there”; instead, the coming of Christ would have been revealed by His Deeds and Titles, more than by His self-introduction: “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matth 24, 27);  “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.  A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust” (Matth 12, 17-21)


You ask me if Ethiopians, since they did not recognize His Majesty as the Son, rejected Christ. I can only tell you that it  is quite apparent that after their betrayal of the King, Ethiopians are living  perilous times, loosing their Ancient Orthodox Heritage and Tradition, and being dispersed all over the world, in the Ethiopian Diaspora: if they don't remember their 2OOO years old Tradition, how can they reject not Christ now?

The Kingdom of Haile Selassie I was the most prosperous of His time, and the country rose and developed in   so a short period that it should be considered a political and social miracle. After the betrayal and deposition, the leaders of the congregation which procalimed in front of the Emperor He had to leave His Throne, persecuted Ethiopians and perpetrated genocide against the nation; these years are called “Red Terror”. Famin fell on Ethiopia, and many documents represent and describe it, not only as one of the worst famine in modern history, but also in Biblical terms, of the Wrath of God. This is to show, what can mankind hope in  forsaking Her God and King, Qadamawi Haile Selassie.
However, the fruits of HIS Kingdom in terms of Peace and Prosperity in the international community are many and different, but if I had to talk on them now, it would   require much time.

Minasoliman:

I already studied the document you linked, and it is a wonderful source of enlightenment, if well understood, thru the help of the Spirit.
The example of John the Baptist is just clear. There should not be much discussing on that, and we should not try to complicate the simple ways of God, as the Scriptures tell us. This is why the Church doesn't esitate to Bless with the Holy Cross the King of kings, or to Anoint Him, or to celebrate His Wedding. She already knows what the Baptist had to do, and She doesn't bother on it any more, as we shouldNOT do in our meditations and thoughts.  In any case, just remember the Role of the King in the Church: is He Who confirms the election of the High Priests of the Church, and He is the source of their power and authority. There are prictures showing His Majesty handing to  Bishops the Priestly Rod, Symbol of their Election and Mission.

As for the Video of Alexandria, you may well see that His Majesty is Absolute Protagonist and Main Character.
The camera is mainly attracted by the Emperor's presence, and its only interest is that of shooting the Holy Service and the Relics of Mar Marqos, and the movements of His Majesty Haile Selassie I.
Again, note that the King of kings has a Throne for Himself in the Church; who else? Were are other leaders? I don't see them, if not accidentally. Do you think it ever happened that a Coptic Patriarch held an Ethiopian Priest by hand in Church? If you have little knowledge of Ethio-Coptic relations history, you will come to conclusions yourself.

His Majesty does not lead the liturgical service, because it is reserved to the Priestly Authority. Like I said before, Christ always humble Himself to authorities; He did with the minister of God, the Baptist, and He does now with the Church, to show us that powers already constituted must not be overthrowed. No one can dare saying Rastafarians intend to destabilize any Apostolic Power whatsoever, and this is proof of it.

Haile Selassie I bowes to no one who is denying His Divinity; Anba Qerillos did not deny, Abuna Basilios did not deny, nor did Abuna Theophilos.
On the Contrary, it is the Church to bow to the King of kings: http://www.voice-online.co.uk/images/12180.jpg , kissing His Royal Ring

I ask anyone to find another picture of an Oriental Orthodox leader bowing to a Davidic King, or  a king in general. But I think there will be no answer.

The website linked by Salpy is not the best source for a true understanding of our faith. It represents us from a western perspective and it is very little theologically founded.
I will be glad to answer to your question istead.

Let the Spirit of Egziabeher (the Lord) come into out hearts to give us wisdom and over-standing to do His Will. Amin

Qadamawi Haile Selassie is the Living King, word without end.
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2010, 10:10:39 PM »


I have reported all this facts and testimonies to show how the Church,silently,knows Who Q.H.S. is.

The Orthodox Church is neither silent or secretive about her beliefs.

Quote
But it is clear that, even if the Church officially denied the Divinity of Qadamawi Haile Selassie, as some times She tries to do,

It's not "some times" or "tries."  She unambiguously denies it, and always has.


Quote
it would not be a surprise for anyone, since in the Times of the first Coming, the Synagogue strongly opposed Christianity, even though many knew the truth, but did not confess it due to fear of men.


Do you realize what you are saying?  You are putting the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church--and by extension all Churches in communion with her, including my own--in the same boat as the people of the first century who denied Christ.  This is a terrible allegation to make.  How can you call yourself a member of the Tewahedo Church?  Does your priest know you hold  these beliefs?
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2010, 10:30:10 PM »

Let me clearly say here that there can be no argument about what constitutes Orthodox Christianity (as defined by the three ecumenical councils prior to Chalcedon.) I am an Orthodox Christian first and foremost. Now, unlike Orthodox Christianity - which has been clearly defined by specific creeds and the three ecumenical councils - the Rastafari movement/faith/religion/worldview is defined and interpreted in numerous ways by numerous people. Unlike Orthodox Christianity, the definition of Rastafari is open to various interpretations. Those who worship Haile Selassie, such as brother Wolde Negus, claim to be "orthodox" Rastas; but others argue that an "orthodox" Rasta is one who heeds and follows the words of His Majesty who was himself a worshipper of Christ.

Brother Wolde Negus, it seems to me that you may be trying to cultivate an "orthodox" doctrine of Rastafari. That's fine, and I know other Rastas who feel the need to do such a thing. By your definition, I am not an "orthodox" Rasta; but I am an Orthodox Christian. Orthodox Christianity has already been clearly defined, and by definition the worship of any person or thing other than Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity is heresy. Ethiopia is an Orthodox Christian nation, and they love and welcome people of other faiths. But please do not try to syncretize Selassie worship with Orthodox Christianity. The two cannot be reconciled. I say this respectfully.

Peace and Love.


Selam
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2010, 10:45:02 PM »

Is there a member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on this board who may be able to identify the Bishop of Wolde Negus (assuming he is genuinely part of the EOTC and thus legitimately subject to an EOTC bishop) so as to officially report his heresies and slander of the Church?

This discussion is going nowhere and it's making me sick; especially as we approach Holy Passion week. Enough of this garbage. Let the authorities of the Church deal with this.
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2010, 11:01:01 PM »

Is there a member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on this board who may be able to identify the Bishop of Wolde Negus (assuming he is genuinely part of the EOTC and thus legitimately subject to an EOTC bishop) so as to officially report his heresies and slander of the Church?

This discussion is going nowhere and it's making me sick; especially as we approach Holy Passion week. Enough of this garbage. Let the authorities of the Church deal with this.



I feel your frustration my brother.

Wolde Negus, please tell us whether or not you are a baptized member of the EOTC, and whose jurisdiction you are under. If your beliefs are in alignment with the Church (as you assert), then you should have no problem disclosing this information. And if your beliefs about the divinity of H.I.M. are correct, then you should be able to explain them to your Priest or Bishop and get their approval and confirmation.

If you are not a baptized member of the EOTC, then I respectfully ask you not to dictate to us what the Ethiopian Orthodox Church actually teaches and believes.

Peace and Love.

Selam
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 11:01:49 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2010, 07:04:34 AM »

Are Rastafarians right to consider "ganja" or "wisdomweed" a form of incense? I have heard that the Old Testament recipe for chrism oil included "Qhaneh-Bosm" or "Qanabis." (Hebrew: קנבוס).

On the other hand, Ethiopia's Orthodox Church rejects Qanabis. Does regular church incense have side effects too?

Quote
+ Jesus' title, the "Christ" is taken from the word for Chrism, made from marijuana, cannabis, or 'qhaneh-bosm'— קְנֵה-בֹ֭שֶֹם

+ Although we celebrate The Sacred Herb specifically, ALL HERBS are ours, and ALL that bring one closer to Jah are considered Holy—These include, but are not limited to: marijuana, peyote, ergot, psiloscybin, salvia, etc.

Zen Zion Coptic Orthodox Church
http://zzco.org/

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Exodus 30 (King James Version)

 22Moreover the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

 23Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,

 24And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:

 25And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.

  30And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.

 31And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.

 34And the LORD said unto Moses, Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum; these sweet spices with pure frankincense: of each shall there be a like weight:

 35And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy:

 36And thou shalt beat some of it very small, and put of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of the congregation, where I will meet with thee: it shall be unto you most holy.

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Proverbs 15:17 (King James Version)

 17Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith.

What herbs are they talking about?

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Rastafarians celebrate Marley's birthday in Ethiopia

By DAGNACHEW TEKLU
Associated Press

ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia -- Thousands of Ethiopians and Rastafarians were jamming on a hot Sunday in the capital's main square as Ethiopia threw a birthday bash for the late reggae star Bob Marley, in what is billed as the country's largest concert.

A priest from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church blessed the event and then first on stage was Burundi's Royal Drummers. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the country's main church, has supported the celebrations.

Quote
From Lion of Zion, Christian Reggae site:

I have been a Rastafarian and have studied its doctrine for years. Although many Rastafarian's beliefs differ from each other, all Rastafarians use the Holy Bible as their foundation and they believe that it is the word of God. Rastafari doctrine is usually diversified and often changes from one believer to the next. For example, there is a debate as to whether Haile Selassie is God, Christ, the personage of Christ. (The Author rejects ganja use as a Sacrament or special way to "commune" with God.)
http://www.lionofzion.com/faq/78da33310400009b0066/Marijuana.html
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2010, 01:20:56 AM »


That is amazingly beautiful! Thanks for posting this.
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