Author Topic: "Thou art Peter Jackson"  (Read 14562 times)

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Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #90 on: January 02, 2004, 06:59:53 PM »
mind you I have a deaconate friend of mine who STILL enjoys Ozzy's music.  I can understand enjoying his show - it was a total riot, but his music??  there is just no accounting for taste.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #91 on: January 04, 2004, 03:55:47 PM »
I never said Liv/Arwen is ugly. I just said Eowyn is better looking.

Sorry I'm coming to this late, but I also agree 100%.
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Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #92 on: January 04, 2004, 10:22:16 PM »
I'm okay with this!  Ya'll can fight over Miranda Otto, so long as you leave Liv Tylor for me :D
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline David

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2004, 10:33:49 PM »
And I'll take Rosie.  :)
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Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2004, 10:37:47 PM »
lol I see that david like his women short and plump!
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline TomS

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2004, 10:40:51 PM »
lol I see that david like his women short and plump!

Hey! At least he LIKES his women! ROFLOL  :wiggle2:

Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #96 on: January 04, 2004, 10:47:51 PM »
IS david Greek?
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline David

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #97 on: January 04, 2004, 10:51:01 PM »
Oh wow, step outside of the thread for 5 minutes and it all goes to pot! :p

Actually I prefer tall and thin, but the young lady I've been most interested in lately would fit Rose's description, only she isn't quite as short, she's a whopping 4'7" :)

Go figure.

And no, I'm not Greek.  I'm American by way of Scotland, Ireland, and wee dram o' Cherokee.
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Offline TomS

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #98 on: January 04, 2004, 10:54:21 PM »
IS david Greek?

What does being Greek have to do with short, plump women??!!!!


Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #99 on: January 04, 2004, 10:54:28 PM »
david: :) scotch-Irish and Injun?  Well there is hope for you!! ;D

4'7?  She'd come up to my navel!
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline David

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2004, 10:56:15 PM »
Max: I know the feeling...I'm 6'3", and not a small man by any horozontal, vertical, or even diagonal measurement! :)
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Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2004, 10:59:42 PM »
david: 6'3 - 250# - 17 1/2 neck - 16' arms - 42 waist - 52 chest.  I'm just a lil guy :D
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline David

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2004, 11:01:39 PM »
Hah...we're the same height but I'm a wee bit larger than ye.  :)
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Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2004, 11:03:42 PM »
david: I've been on the redux.  WAS 290.
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2004, 11:04:17 PM »
still too pudgy around the middle for my preferences, but being sick does not help.
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline David

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2004, 11:10:18 PM »
I know the feeling...need to do a bit of trimming down myself.  We'll see what the new year holds.
"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
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Offline Br. Max, OFC

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2004, 11:13:02 PM »
David: I found that following a basically diabetic diet really helped me.
"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media

Offline Linus7

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2004, 11:26:21 PM »
And I'll take Rosie.  :)

Not a bad choice, as well!

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Offline TomS

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2004, 11:28:13 PM »
Rosie O'Donnel wats nothin' to do with yewz guys!

Offline Linus7

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2004, 11:31:13 PM »
Rosie O'Donnel wats nothin' to do with yewz guys!

Oh man, what a relief!  :P

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Offline David

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2004, 11:48:56 PM »
I'm tolkien about this Rosie:



not this one:

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Offline TomS

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2004, 11:53:50 PM »
Oh, well that's different.......... nevermind.

"That's the news. Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow"
« Last Edit: January 04, 2004, 11:54:24 PM by Tom+ú »

Offline Linus7

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2004, 11:59:23 PM »
Oh, well that's different.......... nevermind.

"That's the news. Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow"

Thank you, Rosanna Rosannadanna!  ;D

I used to love that bit, BTW!
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Offline Ebor

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2004, 02:24:20 PM »
I thought the "nevermind" was another character... Emily Latella? (sp?)

Once I recover from a fine time with the cousins yesterday, I'll try to be back posting.

Ebor
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Offline Linus7

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2004, 10:07:18 PM »
I thought the "nevermind" was another character... Emily Latella? (sp?)

Once I recover from a fine time with the cousins yesterday, I'll try to be back posting.

Ebor

You know, Ebor, I do believe you are right! I confused the two Gilda Radner characters.

. . . nevermind!  ;D
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Offline The Caffeinator

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You ain't Peter!
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2004, 10:16:03 PM »
I see that the thread has drifted, but I finally saw the finale to the LOTR, and I was disappointed.

It's just that the characters were so shallow in the movie. :(

Offline Brendan03

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #116 on: January 06, 2004, 03:50:59 PM »
I liked the finale just fine.  I realize that it was filmed at the same time as the others, but I think that some of the actors seemed stronger in this film (notably Sean Astin ... he may win an award for this performance), while that of others seemed weaker (Viggo Mortensen was just better as the ranger than as the returned King ... it seemed to me like he had difficulty with that transition as an actor).  It's fun sitting there and thinking what parts they will add to the extended DVD, but I'm pretty sure that the dialogue with the Mouth of Sauron will be added in -- it is, after all, in the video game!

I am a fan of Tolkien, so I have strong opinions about many of the reviews.  I think that the reviews that dislike the films because they disagree with Tolkien's world view are off base -- it is fine to disagree with Tolkien's world view, but Peter Jackson was simply trying to portray that in the films, and in that he succeeded brilliantly, in my opinion.  I think that's the standard on which the films should be judged -- not on whether or not one agrees with Tolkien's view of the world.

I also think, however, that reviewers who try to claim LOTR for Christianity are off base.  Tolkien himself repeatedly stated that his mythology was not allegorical in nature.  Surely, there are some Christian ideas in here, but there are a lot of other ones as well -- pagan ones from Norse mythology, for the most part.  If you read the Silmarillion, Tolkien's mythology seems much more removed from Christian theology, I think, than if you simply look at LOTR in isolation.  Tolkien says he tried to create a national mythology for Britain -- and in doing so he clearly drew from Christian and non-Christian sources.  So while I think that LOTR -- and the greater opus of Tolkien -- is very thought-provoking material, it isn't really a Christian allegory or a Christian story any more than it is a pagan Norse myth.  It's a new, fairly original myth that draws on images and ideas from both Christian and pagan sources, and does so very well indeed (probably because of Tolkien's professional familiarity with many pagan myths).

Brendan
« Last Edit: January 06, 2004, 03:51:42 PM by Brendan03 »
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #117 on: January 06, 2004, 11:27:33 PM »
Brendan,

You state:"I also think, however, that reviewers who try to claim LOTR for Christianity are off base. "

"The Lord of the Rings is, of course, a fundamentally religious and Catholic work." J.R.R. Tolkien

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Brendan03

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #118 on: January 07, 2004, 12:19:21 PM »
Lance -

Of course the story has Christian elements, but it also has non-Christian elements.  Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and this influenced his thought, and was clearly an element of what was going on, but it really was only one element of what went into LOTR and the rest of his opus.  His professional obsession with languages and old Northern European myth also played a substantial role in his fiction.

Tolkien himself was mixed in his statements about the religious element of his writing.  He did state what you wrote above, but later he said this:

“It is not about' anything but itself. Certainly it has no allegorical intentions, general, particular, or topical, moral, religious, or political. The only criticism that annoyed me was on that it contained no religion' (and no Women', but that does not matter, and is not true anyway). It is a monotheistic world of natural theology'. The odd fact that there are no churches, temples, or religious rits and ceremonies, is simply part of the historical climate depicted. It will be sufficiently explained, if (as now seems likely) the Silmarillion and other legends of the First and Second Ages are published. I am in any case myself a Christian; but the Third Age' was not a Christian world.”  Tolkien, Letter 165.

He also seemed skeptical about critics who would read too much into his work in the religious sense, I think, when he said this:

“..I object to the contemporary trend in criticism, with its excessive interest in the details of the lives of authors and artists. They only distract attention from an author's works (if the works are in fact worthy of attention). and end, as one now often sees, in becoming the main interest. But only one's guardian Angel, or indeed God Himself, could unravel the real relationship between personal facts and an author's works. Not the author himself (though he knows more than any investigator), and certainly not so-called psychologists'. ...I was born in 1892 and lived for my early years in the Shire' in a pre-mechanical age. Or more important, I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic. The latter fact' perhpas cannot be deduced; thou one critic (by letter) asserted that the invocations of Elbereth, and the character of Galadriel as directly described (or through the words of Gimli and Sam) were clearly related to Catholic devotion to Mary. Another saw in waybread (lembas)=viaticum and the reference to its feeding the will (vol. III, p. 213) and being more potent when fasting, a derivation from the Eucharist. (That is: far greater things may colour the mind in dealing with the lesser things of a fair-story.)”   Letter 213.

Tolkien, I think, basically intended LOTR to have some Christian themes, together with other themes that are common to heroic literature, particularly Norse mythology (from whence come Elves, Dwarves and even the term “Middle Earth”, which is simply the English literal translation of the Norse “Midgard”, the place in the Norse cosmology where mortals lived).  It is a mixed work.

Brendan
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Offline Ebor

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #119 on: January 13, 2004, 03:07:15 PM »
Well, I've seen "Return of the King" twice now and, yes it's a case of ymmv, but I was stunned and yes I cried.  It's going to take a couple of posts to cover things but here are a couple.

First, I love the books. I first read them over 30 years ago.  I love the movies. They are different from the books.  Movies work differently then books, I know.

The first word that applies, for me, to the movies is "Beautiful".    The country and the scenery are breathtaking.  The mountains and the light in the movies strike me to the core, since I live in the lowlands now and it's like hearing a song from long ago.  I read various sites about the movies and I know the care and detail that went into the movies, from the inscriptions on the swords (and REAL swords they are, not punched out sheet metal) to the building of Meduseld in the wilds of New Zealand, to the languages both spoken and sung.  There was consistancy in the different cultures and they were all different from each other.

Music is an important thing to me and Howard Shore's score is varied, rich and fits each part.  The man is a genius and his use of unusual instruments and different sorts of voices is wonderful.  

The lighting of the beacons was a gorgeous meld of sight and sound.

Pippin singing to Denethor (and Billy Boyd sings well and wrote the melody) off-setting the hopeless charge to Osgiliath was wrenching.  I realized after the second viewing that as the cavalry are traveling down the streets of Minas Tirith and the women are throwing flowers that it's not for encouragement, but as funeral offerings.   As they rode towards the river, I was suddenly flashing on the Charge of the Light Brigade, the march across No-man's Land into machine gun fire and other disasters of war.

There were no 6 endings, imo.  The last minutes showed bit by bit how Frodo had lost all so that others could have what was good.  He couldn't just be with his friends in the pub, Bag End was neat and clean, Sam was now married and a father, and the wounds would not heal.  

More later.  but I confess, I hope that the extended version has something about what happened to Gimli and Legolas.    

Back to work.

Ebor
« Last Edit: January 13, 2004, 03:09:40 PM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Brendan03

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2004, 05:41:36 PM »
I think that the Appendices to the Return of the King book indicate that Gimli joins Legolas to Valinor many years after the events depicted in the Return of the King.
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Offline Ebor

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2004, 06:03:07 PM »
Oh *I* know what happens to Gimli and Legolas and Samwise in the books. I've read the appendices a number of times :)  It would be nice if it were touched on in the movies for those who do not know them yet.

(Not verbatim) "With the passing of King Elessar, Legolas built a ship in Ithilien and with him went Gimli."  iirc it's said that this is a great wonder and that Gimli goes out of friendship and a desire to see the beauty of Galadriel once more.

And for Sam "It is said that he went to the Grey Havens and took ship passing over the Sea, the last of the ring bearers."  

Any desiring exact quotes, I'll have to get the book... :D

Here's a nice bit from USA Today asking various stars about the end of the whole labour:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-01-14-lotr-farewell_x.htm

Ebor
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Offline Ebor

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson" Award News!
« Reply #122 on: January 26, 2004, 12:17:45 AM »
I am mightily pleased to be the first on the Forum with the news that "The Return of the King" won all 4 of the Golden Globes that it had been nominated for!! :clapper:

Howard Shore for Best Score
Howard Shore and Fran Walsh for Best song ("Into the West")
Peter Jackson for Best Director
and
Best Drama

For the last one, there was a whole mob on the stage, I couldn't see all of who they were, but John Rhys-Davies, Dom Monaghan, Elijah Wood, I think Billy Boyd, Cate Blanchett, Howard Shore, Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and several others.  

In the acceptance speech for the Best Song, Fran Walsh explained something about the song.  I'd been thinking that it was like a song to someone who was dying.  And indeed, it was in one respect.  There was a young New Zealander film maker named Cameron Duncan who died last November at age 17 of cancer.  The lyrics were inspired and meant for him.  He was to have had a small part in the LotR movies, but his health didn't permit it.
Here's an article about him: http://www.listener.co.nz/default,1150.sm

Ebor
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Offline Ebor

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #123 on: January 26, 2004, 03:54:30 PM »
A bit more on the "Into the West" from the New Zealand news. The young man's mother was deeply touched by the unexpected tribute to her son by Fran Walsh. Here is a short article: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2795220a10,00.html

Ebor
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Offline Ebor

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Re:"Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #124 on: January 30, 2004, 11:57:40 PM »
OK, it's humour time from the world of LotR:

A Dork Tower Comic strip: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/11885

Using LotR as a dating manual:
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17664

And news of international politics...sort of
http://www.watleyreview.com/PageTwo.html

Ebor

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Online Justin Kissel

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Re: You ain't Peter!
« Reply #125 on: October 19, 2012, 01:32:12 PM »
I see that the thread has drifted, but I finally saw the finale to the LOTR, and I was disappointed.

It's just that the characters were so shallow in the movie. :(

Blasphemy!
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: You ain't Peter!
« Reply #126 on: October 19, 2012, 03:53:24 PM »
I see that the thread has drifted, but I finally saw the finale to the LOTR, and I was disappointed.

It's just that the characters were so shallow in the movie. :(

Blasphemy!
I think you've exceeded 5-year statute of limitations for blasphemy charges.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 03:54:08 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline Papist

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Re: You ain't Peter!
« Reply #127 on: October 19, 2012, 04:00:29 PM »
I see that the thread has drifted, but I finally saw the finale to the LOTR, and I was disappointed.

It's just that the characters were so shallow in the movie. :(

Blasphemy!
I think you've exceeded 5-year statute of limitations for blasphemy charges.
Not when it comes to LOTR. LOTR is so absolutely, and epically, awesome that there is no such satute of limitations.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: "Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2012, 05:42:14 PM »
As a book I liked the Hobbit better than LOTR.
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: You ain't Peter!
« Reply #129 on: October 19, 2012, 06:10:57 PM »
I see that the thread has drifted, but I finally saw the finale to the LOTR, and I was disappointed.

It's just that the characters were so shallow in the movie. :(

Blasphemy!
I think you've exceeded 5-year statute of limitations for blasphemy charges.
Not when it comes to LOTR. LOTR is so absolutely, and epically, awesome that there is no such satute of limitations.

When speaking of the books, yes.

The movie did reduce a few of the main characters to caricatures. Frodo, Sam, and Aragorn came through okay. Poor Gimli, though.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Jetavan

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Re: You ain't Peter!
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2012, 06:23:36 PM »
I see that the thread has drifted, but I finally saw the finale to the LOTR, and I was disappointed.

It's just that the characters were so shallow in the movie. :(

Blasphemy!
I think you've exceeded 5-year statute of limitations for blasphemy charges.
Not when it comes to LOTR. LOTR is so absolutely, and epically, awesome that there is no such satute of limitations.

When speaking of the books, yes.

The movie did reduce a few of the main characters to caricatures. Frodo, Sam, and Aragorn came through okay. Poor Gimli, though.
No Tom Bombadil.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline William

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Re: "Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #131 on: October 19, 2012, 11:54:30 PM »
As a book I liked the Hobbit better than LOTR.

In which language did you read the books?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Alpo

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Re: "Thou art Peter Jackson"
« Reply #132 on: October 20, 2012, 07:28:38 AM »
As a book I liked the Hobbit better than LOTR.

+ 1

Lotr is a bit overrated. I admire Tolkien for making his stories so massively detailed but they could be more entertaining. It could be though that in order to understand it one should know the background mythology and I've yet to read my copy of Silmarillion.