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Author Topic: "Thou art Peter Jackson"  (Read 13817 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 17, 2003, 02:59:39 PM »

Went to a midnight showing of Return of the King.  In five theaters, every seat was sold out.  Didn't leave the theater until after 4am.

This was incredible.  So much better than Fellowship or TTT that it's hard to compare.  I can't really talk about it without spoiling it.  There are changes from the book, nothing quite as big as Elves at Helm's Deep or Faramir in TTT.  See it, see it now!  Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2003, 04:57:10 PM »

My SWMBO and I have tickets for the 8 PM show tonight.  (My mom is coming up to babysit the little guy, so we're all set!).  I can't wait!  I've watched the extended versions of FOTR and TTT the past two nights respectively, and I've been listening to the soundtracks in my car.    Grin

Just about 4 hours to go.....  Shocked
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2003, 05:34:07 PM »

I'll see it tomorrow (12/18) at 7:30 PM.  I don't know if I'll be able to sleep tonight Wink
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2003, 05:34:36 PM »

DT, let me know what you think.  I may go see it again tonight.  

Last night there were at least two dozen people dressed up as characters.  And no, it wasn't me dressed up as Gimli. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2003, 05:42:43 PM »

DT, let me know what you think.  I may go see it again tonight.  


Will do.  I'm going to try my best and see it a second time sometime before Christmas, but with junior it will take some planning ahead.  BTW--the little man was still awake when I started FOTR the other night, and his eyes got really wide and he was really cooing during the opening Shire sequence.  Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2003, 05:43:27 PM »

I would coo too if I was in the Shire! Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2003, 09:34:16 AM »

And...WOW!!!  Shocked I agree with David that it is even better than the first two.  My only complaint was that it was too SHORT, but that will be resolved when the extended version comes out.  Grin However, the pacing was excellent IMO, and the battles were awesome.  There were about 3 or 4 places in the movie where my wife and I got misty eyed if not choked up  :'( .  And while I enjoyed it tremendously, I was somewhat saddened that it was over  Sad (like the way I felt after reading the book each time).  I hope that Peter Jackson will be able to do The Hobbit  some time in the near future.

In short, I'm already looking forward to seeing it again with my sister and her husband (who both also saw it last night) around Christmas time.   Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2003, 10:56:14 AM »

They cut out over an HOUR from the theatrical release.  I'm sure most of that will make it back into the extended version DVD.
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2003, 11:08:18 AM »

They cut out over an HOUR from the theatrical release.  I'm sure most of that will make it back into the extended version DVD.

I agree.  I told my wife the same thing last night after the movie.  They can add an hour EASILY.  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2003, 03:54:59 PM »

And it looks like from the way they filmed the Gates of Mordor scene that they had filmed the Mouth of Sauron(one of my favorite moments in ROTK).  

Going to see it again tonight!
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2003, 04:21:51 PM »

And it looks like from the way they filmed the Gates of Mordor scene that they had filmed the Mouth of Sauron(one of my favorite moments in ROTK).  


I was kind of thinking the same thing.  At first I was disappointed they didn't show that part, but I have a feeling he will be added to the DVD.  Likewise, the near-"confrontation" between Gandalf and the WitchKing will probably be added back as well, as I recall seeing part of that scene in the trailer this summer.
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2003, 01:15:28 AM »

Peter Jackson should be declared a saint.

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2003, 09:31:45 AM »

Over the past couple of days I decided to read some of the negative reviews of the movie/trilogy and see why some (albeit, a small minority) of critics don't like the movie. Here are a few reasons that jumped out at me which seemed common to most of the negative reviews:

1. There is a clear cut battle between good and evil.  According to the critics, reality is more complex.  Along these lines, these reviewers seemed distressed at the Christian themes expressed in the movie, some even implied that it is a veiled glorification of the Crusades or other forms of Eurocentrism and Western Imperialism. (One guy even admitted he disagreed with the political and social conservatism of the movies)

2.  These same reviewers generally thought there was some ambiguous homosexuality among the hobbits evidenced by their sworn devotion to each other and the "longing" (among other adjectives) looks they gave to each other. (SHEEESH!!!!)  Along these lines, these critics pointed to the constant imagery of towers, swords, and spears as an example of phallocentrism or even homoeroticism.  (I wonder what these folks are thinking about much of the time   Embarrassed )

The funny thing is that the ones that bristled at the movies' conservative values were the same ones that kept finding latent references to homosexuality in the movies--talk about consistency.   Roll Eyes

Other gripes included becoming tired at the repeated reference to "the end" in its various expressions; that ROTK was basically the same as TTT; that the Army of the Dead was "cheesy"; and that the movies seemed to end several times.  

After reading these reviews, it becomes apparent that some just don't get it, but maybe they should be excused somewhat as it is evident they have not read the books (or at least have not comprehended what they read).  :-";"xx
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2003, 09:06:46 PM »

Ok, I have to say, I was a huge dork!

A priest friend of mine and his wife got 4 tickets for Trilogy Tuesday (All LoTR, all the time!).  One of their friends backed out, so they invited me to come out.  As a reward for finishing my first semester of seminary, I went.  To Ohio.  For a movie.  I'm a dork!  The 13+ hours of the movies totally rocked!  I will, however, never do a trilogy like that again!
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2003, 12:48:38 PM »

<<doing a happy dance>> my brother's coming tonight & he's bringing bootlegged dvd of ROTK...  sometimes it's useful to have a little brother who has friends with good connections...
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2003, 02:20:47 PM »

It's better just to go and see it at the theatre.  The big Screen makes ALL the difference.
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2003, 03:54:24 PM »

An excellent review I read of RotK
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336180&perpage=25&pagenumber=4

The best way for me to review Return of the King is to relate to you my feeling after I stepped out of the theatre. I stayed until the final credit rolled and was the last person to exit the theatre. It was all so desolate around me as I left the world of Tolkien and turned to face a couple hundred empty chairs, discarded popcorn bags and candy wrappers. The final note in Howard Shore’s score had been played, the screen faded to black and the film was over.

I stepped out into the chilling Canadian winter wind and pulled my coat collar up around my neck to dispel the frigid pull of December as the people filed out around me. Their conversations and musings regarding the film whizzed by me like music from car radios racing down the road and around a corner and words exited their lips became cold fog on the air. Though the night was cold I had an immense feeling of warmth inside me and the best way to place that feeling into words is to call it satisfactionGǪpure satisfaction. For 3 -+ hours I had been entertained and deeply entranced by the magic of cinema. The Return of the King is the very reason why we go to the moviesGǪto get lost in the story and the world the film creates and forgot about our debts or petty arguments and maybe even the vast troubles in our world and for a short time, there in the darkness of a movie theatre, become lost.

Yet, here I was nowGǪoutside of a theatre and gazing across the street at the strip mall, the cars pulling out of the parking lot, the large glowing lights of the franchise restaurants -the Burger Kings and the McDonalds--, behind me the neon light of the cinema blinked on, a car pulled up blasting some loud rap music and some teens raced each other to the front seat and slowly the magic began to fade and, again, I was left to reality. I was no longer in Middle Earth.

The Lord of the Rings films were great experiences but the finally was something more as we, the audience, were on Frodo’s quest for three years and the films became a bit of a yearly tradition, a Christmas time treat to look forward to. As my sister pulled up to drive me home I felt a tinge of sadness inside upon the realization that there was no fourth film next year. The story was complete. I stepped out of the cold and into the car. The radio was playing some top 40 hit. My sister asked me how I enjoyed the film and how do you explain the journey in the single expected sentence? Instead of replying instantly with the usual “It was good” I looked about me, at the crowds leaving the theatre, at the discarded cigarette butts and litter on the ground, I looked across to the light logos and strip mall, I looked at the large theatre itself, a looming building emanating loud music with blazing lights scattered about posters of films I didn’t really care about and finally I looked at my sister. Yes, what could I say? Finally, I just whispered the first thing that came to mind: “Well, I’m back.”

Indeed, I was.


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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2003, 12:37:37 AM »

Well, I finally saw ROTK today and I really enjoyed it.

I first read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings way back in the late 1970s. I have since read all of them numerous times. For awhile, I was reading them each autumn. When I began to anticipate each sentence in each novel, I discontinued that practice, and it has now been several years since my last reading.

I find the new popularity of LOTR somewhat disconcerting. I had always stupidly treasured it and The Hobbit as somehow specially my own, my secret.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, however. Part of what makes a literary work a classic is its universal quality, its essential connection to every human soul.

As a LOTR purist I won't say that there haven't been some disappointments for me in Peter Jackson's work.

But when all the various peoples gathered in Minas Tirith bowed in honor to Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin, I had to fight back the tears.

Well done.
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2003, 09:36:57 AM »

Well, it is true that I was dissapointed in a few parts, however I think that this is unavoidable.  In transferring an epic novel into an epic film, there are decisions on how to depict characters, events, etc.  However, there are a few things that I feel Jackson brought out in the movies that were brilliant.  Things such as:

Frodo's belief that he must try and save Gollum so that Frodo can believe he himself won't completely be lost to the power of the ring.

Theoden's loss of hope after he is reawakened to realize his son is dead, and the rebirth of hope spurred on by Eowyn at Pelennor fields.  Eowyn: "But I must save you"  Theoden: "You already have".

Boromir's character was amazing in the films, but that is also due to Sean Bean's wonderful portrayl.  

So in my opinion, at least, thare are good things about the movies that will increase my enjoyment of the books in the future.
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2003, 10:03:03 AM »

It looks like I'm FINALLY going to get to see RotK tomorrow afternoon. Lacking suspended animation technology we had to find a day when the children could visit Grandma and Granddaddy for a long time  Grin  

I assure you all that I have not given in to the sin of Envy, but have rejoiced other's good fortune that they have been able to see the movie and enjoyed it. Wink

Now to find some tickets

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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2003, 01:49:30 PM »

It looks like I'm FINALLY going to get to see RotK tomorrow afternoon. Lacking suspended animation technology we had to find a day when the children could visit Grandma and Granddaddy for a long time  Grin  

I assure you all that I have not given in to the sin of Envy, but have rejoiced other's good fortune that they have been able to see the movie and enjoyed it. Wink

Now to find some tickets

Ebor

I'm going to see it again on Monday, God willing.  Grin

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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2003, 02:25:20 PM »

Monday for the first time, with my wife. She doesn't quite get it all. Smiley Especially when FOTR ended and I told her she had to wait a year to find out what happened next.

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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2003, 03:34:05 PM »

"What has it got in it's pocketses?"

TICKETS!! that's what!  For tomorrow early afternoon, right after church!.

 Right! now to remember the list that I was told:
 
Do not drink too much coffee or other liquid.  
Visit the restroom in the theater before the movie starts.
Take a handkerchief for the end.
"Breathe! That's the key.  Keep Breathing."  

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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2003, 06:50:09 PM »


But when all the various peoples gathered in Minas Tirith bowed in honor to Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin, I had to fight back the tears.


You and me both.  I saw it for the second time yesterday and again had the same reaction.
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2003, 12:29:39 AM »

Why fight them back? After reading the books at least five times and seeing the two previous films at least that many times, I considered it the very least due to such a moving epic tale.
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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2003, 01:09:26 AM »

Maybe it's my age.  I'm going on 58.  I enjoy movies, always have.  I've enjoyed the Lord of the Rings Triology, but I can't get as ecstatic as some of these younger guys and girls...or is it mainly just guys?  Saw the final film on Dec. 25.  It was a fine film!  Even brought a tear to my eye a couple of times when you see the relationships between these characters.  But, when the movie is over, what I'm left with is less a sense of deep human/spiritual experience, and more a sense of really good special effects, vast scenery, incredible computer generated scenes, epic scenes of battles  (always a little hard for me to understand how one lead character can address his words to thousands of soldiers all at once), and those sorts of things.  And finally, it seemed to take so long for the movie to finally end.  Like, let's milk this stuff for all it's worth.  Oh, and I got tired of seeing all these long closeups of Frodo's face.  I mean, let's not be so obvious about trying to get the audience to really "feel" for Frodo.

But, it was enjoyable, an entertaining movie.  But hardly the thing that should result in the canonization of Peter Jackson.

Critics were cited in previous messages here.  They sound to me like critics who don't share a sympathy to the Christian message.  So check out Ralph C. Wood, English professon ar Baylor University, and very familiar with Tolkien, etc.  http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/150/31.0.html.

Wood writes:

This ethical and artistic failure becomes most evident in the third movie's depiction of Gollum, the wretched hobbit who, having possessed the Ruling Ring for five hundred years, has been virtually devoured by it. In The Two Towers Jackson revealed Gollum to be a conflicted soul even in his consuming greed. And here he powerfully depicts Gollum's original Cain-like murder in seizing the Ring. But Jackson soon removes our sympathy with the conflicted Gollum—and thus our complicity in his crimes—by turning him into a pathetically comic and merely devious figure. Jackson even allows Gollum to create a bizarre alienation between the utterly loyal servant Sam Gamgee and his heroic master Frodo Baggins. But instead of being emotionally wrought with concern that these two dearest of friends should suddenly be divided, I found myself sniggering at this outrageous violation of Tolkien's great book.

While having positive things to say about the trilogy, Wood concludes his article with this:
The lesson to be learned from this seriously-flawed adaptation of The Return of the King is that the movies—like the Frank Peretti novels and the Left Behind books—often tempt us with their quick and obvious solutions to evils that require great subtlety to discern and even greater patience to remedy. The Lord of the Rings abjures such deadly allurements by its very length, some 1200 pages. The reading of it requires a disciplined act of devotion and discrimination. So do all of the other good things in life, although this movie, alas, does not.

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« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2003, 11:57:39 AM »

Just been to see ROTK. Enjoyed it a lot but felt slightly disappointed by the ending. Well very disappointed.

The last 15 minutes just seemed to be a lot of people grinning and hugging each other. And the return to the Shire was especially disappointing.

Maybe the extended version will add a lot of value. Even my non-Tolkien daughter felt there was a lot of jumping around and skipping necessary connectivity.

But I enjoyed it and got a tremendous sense of what it might have been like standing in a line with a sword against an enemy that was intent on destroying your home and family.

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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2003, 10:16:37 PM »

I was a consumate martyr and babysat for my sister ahd her husband so they could go and watch ROTK.  IMAGINE - while they were watching epic battles for the souls of middle earth, I was fighting epic battles with a 2 1/2 YO, a 18 MO, and a 5 MO.  I think I'd rather take on Sauron!!
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« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2003, 11:56:23 AM »

Well, my first words upon leaving were, "I need to go to the bathroom." (I'm sure that was a common reaction.)

More seriously, we had very little to say (besides "wow"). There were a few slight refinements we might have added. And yes, I think the delivery of Arwen at the end was a bit weak, and I would have liked a more definite end to Saruman. But wow......

I'm sure Tolkien would not have liked the movies, because it seems from his letters that he would not necessarily have understood that the movies have to have an independent merit as a work of art in their own right. I think they do have that merit, but in gaining it they've had to deviate from being Tolkien's story to being Peter Jackson's (and his actors') telling of Tolkien's story. But what Jackson has done is, in the end, stunning. Steven Hunter's year-end round up concentrated on the sudden outburst of CGI in the movies, ending with

Quote
Possibly the CGI revolution has reached its apogee in "THe Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King." We're surely in the presence of a masterpiece and anything that follows will be paler, simpler, less engaging and less profitable.
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« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2003, 12:04:09 PM »

Quote
Now listening to: Billy Boyd singing (the one time in the movie where I nearly cried)

Wow...that was a powerful scene!
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« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2003, 12:04:52 PM »

Good point about it being in some sense Peter Jackson's story, as a film, but I think the criticism is still valid, though it is appreciative criticism from folk who love the books and the films.

I think that Saruman in the Shire is important. It brings the world of evil even into the heart of Hobbiton, wheras when the four hobbits turn up and no-one knows or cares it is a little disappointing. It needs an extra 45 minutes, although I know the Scouring of the Shire wasn't filmed. The ending is one of my favourite parts of the book but I found it rather weak in the film. It seemed like the ending went on too long without enough content. And I didn't feel that as a story it left Aragorn very satisfactorily.

But I wasn't expecting perfection.

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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2003, 06:16:08 PM »

I'm sure that in the DVD extended version when the missing hour is reinserted that things will fit better.
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2003, 01:36:37 AM »

I was a consumate martyr and babysat for my sister ahd her husband so they could go and watch ROTK.  IMAGINE - while they were watching epic battles for the souls of middle earth, I was fighting epic battles with a 2 1/2 YO, a 18 MO, and a 5 MO.  I think I'd rather take on Sauron!!

You are hereby appointed an honorary "Bounder" and will receive the customary Mathom next Christmas.

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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2003, 01:53:46 AM »

gee thanks.  I'd prefer a copy of the ROTK extended version DVD if you please Grin
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2003, 02:00:03 AM »

I'll settle for Anduril and a barrel of Longbottom Leaf. Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2003, 02:11:46 AM »

ick.  I'm allergic to tobacco.  But a sword would be nice Smiley  I need a new one.
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2003, 02:26:44 AM »

i just saw ROTK for the 3rd time, and i possibly enjoyed it most this time...i was done scavenging for details and just sat back and was moved...most of the time...

from an artistic p.o.v., there are some things that were not achieved (for me as a viewer) by p.j.'s approach...

(please note, spoilers ahead)

i'd say the most disappointing was the fact that, whenever we came back to frodo and sam, i actually found myself TRYING to be moved, begging to be moved...but i just wasnt Sad and by the 3rd time i figured out why...we never really understand WHY sam cares for frodo so much...we know he DOES, and sean astin's performance is incredibly on target and amazing in this respect, but (and this isnt astin's fault) their relationship (beyond gardener-master) is never fleshed out...which is something that cant really happen at a single moment, but would have to have been achieved over the course of the entire trilogy, gradually...obviously the books achieve this, where the films do not (for me), and so this was most disappointing for me...

in addition, i think p.j. was a bit slo-mo-happy at the end of ROTK :-p  if each of the "endings" (which i didnt mind at all) were done in real time, i think it woulda been more effective and less, forgive the word, self-indulgent...

but overall, the blessings of these films, which come straight from peter jackson and all involved, far outweigh the merely irksome details ive just described from film 3...

highlights for me in the past 2 films:

-bridge of kazad-dum (WOWOWOOW best scene ever! "i am a servant of the Secret Fire" hehehe)

-boromir's death (the best death scene ive ever seen on film...it has honor, persistence, loyalty, and a good-bye dialogue that makes me fall apart every time "i'd have followed you to the end, my brother, my captain, my king")

-gandalf the white joining the battle of helm's deep w/ Eomer and the Rohirrim, charging down that steep hill on the beautiful Shadowfax w/ the glorious light of dawn behind him...WOW

and from the third film, there were so many moments that were just right on, nailed by p.j. and co.:

-the sequence w/ pippin's song, nuff said

-the lighting of the beacons (wow one of my favorite parts "hope has been kindled")

-the arrival of rohan at the battle of minas tirith, the battle cries from all involved, and then the armies of good barreling down the ugly orcs (who were completely freaked out, and well they should be!)

-gandalf knocking crazy denethor over the head w/ his staff, hahahaha so great! and NECESSARY (geez, denethor was nuts!)

-eowyn killing the witch king, and her good-bye to theoden...but more the look leading up to this courageous act, when theoden is thrown across the field by the nazgul-bird and there's this thunderstruck shot of her as she watches it...it's breaking my heart thinking about it

-the arrival of aragorn w/ the army of the dead (i dont care what anyone says, this is just plain cool)

-that final charge on the black gate (:::sauron whispers::: "aragorn..." :::aragorn steps forward, then looks back at his friends::: (whispered) "for frodo" and then he turns and charges like only the true king can...followed immediately by THE HOBBITS! woo hoo! ahahah soooo great)

-and finally, the one sam/frodo moment that got to me...when sam picks up frodo and carries him the rest of the way up mt. doom, w/ the triumphant theme from "Into the West" (the annie lennox song over the credits) blared awesomely from the brass section...wow

and for the record, i actually liked arwen's arrival at the coronation...overall i am very fond of what p.j. did w/ her (considering she makes two very tiny appearances in the books)...altho tying her fate to the ring was a bit much. but i liked her strength as a woman who will bear life as a mother put in contrast w/ eowyn's strength as a physical warrior/fighter...overall i hafta say i found arwen's strength more moving, because i felt it was rooted in a deeper, more "human" (even tho she's an elf haha how ironic) place (i.e. a place of life, versus, in eowyn's case, a desire for glory/fame which largely results in death)...and what made her arrival at the coronation so touching was elrond's face as he nudged her forward, and aragorn's face as he kissed her...the vulnerability in both was beautiful...

-and HOW COULD I FORGET the final bow of all the free peoples of middle earth to the four shirelings...so great ("my friends...you bow to no one") wowee, this is the stuff heroes are made of...

ok so i think my "review" is done Smiley Smiley Smiley forgive my lengthiness, but my enthusiasm runs away from me at times...
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2003, 02:33:06 AM »

donna: oh don't be silly.  we all know why Sam cares so much for Frodo - they're gay lovers.  Sheesh - it's painfully obvious!!  Wink
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« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2003, 02:41:49 AM »

haha...those people are crazy, just because we suck nowadays and dont know how to express love between friends the way that sam and frodo do, doesnt mean that we have the right to project our own insecurities as a society on something that exists in a different (if mythological) society, as depicted in the films between frodo and sam...

btw by "we" i mean our world, not actually u and me ;-)
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« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2003, 02:44:09 AM »

NOW WAIT JUST A...(oh wait, it's Max making a funny and not some troll)  <blood pressure dropping>

Interesting comments...a few of my own.

What I really enjoyed about the films was how they had taken a few ideas that were in the books and fleshed them out a bit more.  Like Frodo feeling that he needs to try to save Gollum so that he himself has some hope of salvation.  Also, Theoden losing hope after the death of Theodred to the point of Aragorn leading his own men at Helm's Deep.  It is only in coming to the aid of Gondor at Pelennor that he finds meaning in the fight against evil.
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« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2003, 04:46:14 AM »

OK! OK! I GIVE IN !!

I hesitate to admit it

but

I've never seen the films

and even worse [ oh this is shameful Sad Shocked Shocked ]

I've never read the books

there - Ive confessed - I feel better Tongue
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« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2003, 05:18:27 AM »

OK! OK! I GIVE IN !!

I hesitate to admit it

but

I've never seen the films

and even worse [ oh this is shameful Sad Shocked Shocked ]

I've never read the books

there - Ive confessed - I feel better Tongue

<John immediately goes to the slave's profile to activate the ignore function. Oh darn, Bobby said it won't be in until January>


Just kidding. I still love you Anhelyna Wink
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« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2003, 03:32:22 PM »

donna: sheesh next thing you'll be saying that neither David and Jonathan nor Ruth and Naomi were gay lovers.  You know you are setting back modern biblical scholarship to the dark ages!! Grin
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« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2003, 04:28:59 PM »

Have to go and get 'em first - local library a disaster area !

Can I substitute the DVDs  ?
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« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2003, 04:39:19 PM »

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK !!

How long have I got ?
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