Author Topic: went to the mikvah yesterday...  (Read 7730 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
went to the mikvah yesterday...
« on: December 22, 2009, 12:06:03 AM »
...to complete my conversion process! I'm a real Jew now!
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

  • Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,495
    • Amsterdam Declaration 2002
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 12:07:39 AM »
Mazel tov!
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,349
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 12:52:03 AM »
Mazel Tov!

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,728
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2009, 02:31:41 AM »
So you denied Christ.

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 02:35:26 AM »
So you denied Christ.
was that a question or an observation?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 02:40:12 AM by Tallitot »
Proverbs 22:7

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,728
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 02:51:52 AM »
more like a rhetorical question.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,057
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 02:59:37 AM »
Is apostasy a cause for celebration?  Or do you still somehow claim Christ in this "Jewish" setting?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 02:59:44 AM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 03:04:22 AM »
Alveus and Augustin,
Even if you think someone has denied Christ, why would you force them to say it in public? 
Why wouldn't you try to avoid this at all cost?
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 39,153
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 03:06:37 AM »
Is apostasy a cause for celebration?  Or do you still somehow claim Christ in this "Jewish" setting?
He got baptized to try to wash off his baptism.  Given the Jews' ideas about descent and religion  and all, I'm not sure what "real Jew" means.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,349
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 03:11:37 AM »
I feel we need to leave the OP alone in his decision.

Good night.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,057
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 03:21:04 AM »
Alveus and Augustin,
Even if you think someone has denied Christ, why would you force them to say it in public? 
Why wouldn't you try to avoid this at all cost?

Well, saying things out loud now is a good warm up for the Dread Judgment.  Facing reality could provide an impetus for repentance, if it is necessary.

Do you think that he will somehow be in better shape if he doesn't verbalize his denial of Christ?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 03:21:37 AM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 03:23:00 AM »
Do you think that he will somehow be in better shape if he doesn't verbalize his denial of Christ?
Yes, as a matter of fact that is precisely what I am saying. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 03:25:42 AM by ozgeorge »
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Ortho_cat

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,392
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009, 06:08:08 AM »
Is this a prayer request? Lord have mercy!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 06:14:02 AM by Ortho_cat »

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2009, 07:05:34 AM »
Is this a prayer request?
No it isn't. And to use prayer to make some point is sacrilege.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Ortho_cat

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,392
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2009, 07:34:06 AM »
"I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them...This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

I'm not sure why else the OP would come onto a Christian forum and tell us this, if not to ask for our prayers.  Surely his intentions are not to seek acceptance or approval?

« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 07:40:34 AM by Ortho_cat »

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2009, 07:48:13 AM »
Surely his intentions are not to seek acceptance or approval?
Tallitot has a long history on this forum. Longer than you. He is telling us the latest in his life. If you can't accept him that's your problem, but you don't speak for me as an Orthodox Christian nor as a member of this forum. And you certainly don't speak for Christ.

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Ortho_cat

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,392
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2009, 08:54:08 AM »
I think Christ speaks for Himself on the matter:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jn. 14:6

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2009, 09:05:03 AM »
So in fact you were using "prayer" to make a point. Thanks for clarifying.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,014
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2009, 10:33:12 AM »
I can accept this as an important milestone in Tallitot's life.  As such, I genuinely wish him well.  What is difficult to understand is why I should be excited about it?  By his decision, he has denied Christ.  True, this is done everyday all over the world, but what should I say about it when it's posted on a Christian forum?  I can only think to say, "Lord, have mercy." 
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline GabrieltheCelt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,014
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 10:34:37 AM »
I feel we need to leave the OP alone in his decision.



 Except when the OP shares it on a public forum... just sayin'.
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Justin Kissel

  • *
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,233
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 10:37:58 AM »
Congratulations, Tallitot :)

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,057
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 01:27:00 PM »
[Removed my own post and am leaving the thread.]
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 01:42:00 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,234
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2009, 03:29:09 PM »
If you're happy, then God bless you.  If you're not happy, then God bless you.

It's not (from my POV) the best decision in the world to leave Christianity, but I pray that you still end up in God's Eternal Kingdom.  Happy Hanukkah.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline GiC

  • Resident Atheist
  • Site Supporter
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,490
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2009, 03:54:40 PM »
Mazel Tov!
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2009, 09:03:56 PM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline GiC

  • Resident Atheist
  • Site Supporter
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,490
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2009, 11:20:42 PM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D

Or maybe we could simply learn to accept our fellow human brethren for who they are...just asking ;)
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline Justin Kissel

  • *
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,233
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2009, 11:23:04 PM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D

The Jews control the world. But if they had a subforum on every site, people would start getting suspicious. So, they are playing it smart by keeping a low profile.

(For those who aren't sure, yes, I'm joking)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 11:23:46 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline GabrieltheCelt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,014
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2009, 11:33:13 PM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D

Or maybe we could simply learn to accept our fellow human brethren for who they are...just asking ;)

And you've shown such a wonderful example for us.... Just saying ...   ;)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 11:43:54 PM by GabrieltheCelt »
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline GiC

  • Resident Atheist
  • Site Supporter
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,490
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2009, 12:18:55 AM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D

Or maybe we could simply learn to accept our fellow human brethren for who they are...just asking ;)

And you've shown such a wonderful example for us.... Just saying ...   ;)

Considering the biggoted neo-nazi crap I've seen on this thread, It'll take that as a complement...just saying :)
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline Nazarene

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 520
  • David ben Yessai
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2009, 07:59:29 AM »
I'm not gonna comment on how denying Messiah fits into Tallilot's decision to convert to Rabbinical Judaism, that's for our Master to decide on Judgement Day. Though do keep in mind that neither we, nor Tallilot himself, know if he will indeed still be a Jew on his death bed. Today is not Judgement day and anything can happen, we don't know the future, including our own futures. I will instead wish Tallilot well, may he be healthy and blessed.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,014
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox OCA
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2009, 04:06:35 PM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D

Or maybe we could simply learn to accept our fellow human brethren for who they are...just asking ;)

And you've shown such a wonderful example for us.... Just saying ...   ;)

Considering the biggoted neo-nazi crap I've seen on this thread, It'll take that as a complement...just saying :)
So because some folks express concern that a former Orthodox Christian has decided to become Jewish, you equate that with bigotry and neo-nazism?  That's quite an assertion, but since you continuously forget the purpose of this forum it makes sense why you would say something so goofy. 
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2009, 05:18:00 PM »
Why isn't there a jewish sub-forum .....Just asking .... ;D

Or maybe we could simply learn to accept our fellow human brethren for who they are...just asking ;)

Yes, we can all go live in Flat Land. All choices are equal, it's the fact that a choice has been made which is central. Keep everything grey. No right or wrong or anything in between. No Absolute Truth, just your own whims and feelings. Personal happiness is the ultimate goal so keeping everthing equal gives you a fair shot.

pass 
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2009, 05:19:51 PM »
So because some folks express concern
Stop worrying. It causes wrinkles and changes nothing. Its wasted energy.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2009, 05:23:47 PM »
I dont know if you have explained your conversion before, but I would like to know your reasons. I am a Jew who converted to Christianity. My vote cancels yours :)
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2009, 12:24:28 AM »
So much that could be written about this from the Scriptures, the Fathers, and the Canons.  But, who wants to read the writings of Obersturmbahnfuhrer Paul, or Kreisleiter Ambrose, or for that matter, Reichsfuhrer Jesus, as quoted in the Gospel written by Gauleiter John.  Amazing that anyone who actually believes the teachings of the Orthodox Church is now a Nazi.  If only a dear departed Serbian Priest of mine would have known that when he was in Dachau with St. Nikolai (an Orthodox Saint who is considered to be "anti-Semitic" by many for his writings).   
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Tamara

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,209
  • +Pray for Orthodox Unity+
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2009, 03:09:37 AM »
I dont know if you have explained your conversion before, but I would like to know your reasons. I am a Jew who converted to Christianity. My vote cancels yours :)

Cool. I would love to hear your story. I know of one other man who converted from Judaism to Eastern Orthodoxy.
He is married to a Syrian-American woman and attends a parish full of immigrants from Palestine and Israel.
The cultures actually mesh together quite nicely.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 03:09:55 AM by Tamara »

Offline Salpy

  • Section Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,457
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2009, 03:12:17 AM »
I dont know if you have explained your conversion before, but I would like to know your reasons.

I'm curious about that also.  I haven't asked about that until now, only because I didn't want to be invasive.  However, I do think it would help us understand you if you explained why you left Christianity.  Specifically, I'm wondering if there was ever a time you believed in the divinity of Christ and whether something specific happened to make you abandon that belief. 

I don't mean to get too personal.  If this makes you uncomfortable, or if you just don't feel like answering, then you don't have to answer.  I just think it would help us understand where you are coming from.   :)

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2010, 10:23:16 PM »
This is interesting.  I hope that you find the peace that you are looking for in life and the spiritual font which offers wisdom.  Jews, while not Christian, have a lot of wisdom in their scriptures and teachings which is useful in navigating through everyday life.



« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 10:26:38 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,829
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Tallitot conversation
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2010, 02:07:57 PM »
Cool. I would love to hear your story. I know of one other man who converted from Judaism to Eastern Orthodoxy.
He is married to a Syrian-American woman and attends a parish full of immigrants from Palestine and Israel.
The cultures actually mesh together quite nicely.

Tallitot,

I would very much like to hear your story, and how the conversion has been. Please don't worry about any negative comments.  I am sorry to hear that the Orthodox priest was mean to you.


One thing you can please help me with is whether there is prejudice in the moderate - orthodox Jewish religious Community against those who were not born ethnically Jewish. Is this real or not? Or is it just in the State of Israel?

Quote
I recall a Greek Orthodox woman who converted to Judaism. One day, she confided to me how difficult it had been. On the one hand, there were still Jews who questioned her "authenticity," though her family was active in their Reform synagogue and their children had all had a Jewish education. On the other hand, given the deep link among family, church, and identity in Greek culture, her relatives couldn't quite accept her decision, creating permanent tension with people she loved.

Or take the case of a young woman who was the daughter of a European foreign minister. She was always interested in Judaism growing up, she said, and took the leap when she met an Israeli man. She converted through the Conservative movement in the US, but it wasn't good enough for the Jewish community back home [in Israel]. The minister called and asked for our help. He was flabbergasted. He couldn't grasp why, after all the intense study his daughter had gone through, she was still kept at arm's length by local Jewish leaders [in Israel]. Eventually, things worked out, but not before some ill feelings were created.

David Harris, In the Trenches: A welcome or a wall? , Jerusalem Post
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/harris/entry/a_welcome_or_a_wall

Shalom. Peace. Salaam.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 02:11:53 PM by rakovsky »

Offline Sloga

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 830
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2010, 03:59:40 PM »
With all due respect to everyone posting in this thread, one this is evident; the category in which this thread was posted in. I believe debate is in fact what one is supposed to do, at the very least discuss the thread. Had it have been posted in a different section, certain comments here would be unacceptable, otherwise I think they are appropriate. What can I say, I am a constitutionalist :)

nonetheless, mazol tov!
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline Altar Server

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 980
  • Holy Father Seraphim, Pray to God for us!
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2010, 06:15:54 PM »
Talliot,
I'll echo what Fr. George said God Bless.
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline JLatimer

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,202
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2010, 06:29:29 PM »
Why not Orthodox Judaism?
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,829
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2010, 03:12:54 AM »
Quick question: do you have to get re-circumcised if you were already circumcised in a secular hospital?

Curiousity only

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,829
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2010, 03:23:45 AM »
Jewish Attitudes Toward Proselytes

At times, Jews have embraced large numbers of converts, but hostile relations with Gentile neighbors often led to suspicion of proselytes as well.?

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Jews_and_Non-Jews/Attitudes_Toward_Non-Jews/Converts.shtml

Biblical Times
Those Gentiles who were members of Israelite society were known as gerim (strangers or foreigners), and the Bible repeatedly emphasizes the obligation to welcome such people.

Jews in biblical times were open to prospective proselytes, but they did not see it as their mission to convert Gentiles. [Not sure the author is right.]

Rabbinic Times
The most famous negative statement in the Talmud about converts was made by Rabbi Helbo, who believed proselytes were "as troublesome as a sore." Most sages appear to have disagreed with Helbo, however, and tried to list specific historical circumstances which led him to this conclusion. Most prominent among these was the fact that the proselyte and his new Jewish community often suffered punishment from Christian leaders following a conversion.

The Middle Ages

...On the other hand, the Zohar (the classic work of kabbalah, medieval Jewish mysticism) strikes a different chord. The Zohar emphasizes the superior position of the born Jew in relation to the proselyte. [????]This theme probably reflects the extent to which Jews felt persecuted and, consequently, entirely separate from the Gentile majority.

Today's "Jews by choice" are in large part accepted by American Jewry. Most Jews consider them a welcome addition to a community struggling to ensure its own survival in future generations. Yet even as they might fully accept proselytes as co-religionists, American Jews often feel that Jews-by-choice cannot fully share the bond of Jewish ethnicity, peoplehood, or history--at least not immediately. The contemporary situation is especially complex in Israel, where only conversions performed by Orthodox rabbis are regarded as legitimate.

============================================================

The author seems to say that in Old Testament times it wasn't this way.
So, is this looking down on non-ethnic Jews as spiritually inferior just something from Zohar and somehow a reaction to Christian persecution?

Regards.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,751
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: went to the mikvah yesterday...
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2010, 09:04:47 AM »
Quick question: do you have to get re-circumcised if you were already circumcised in a secular hospital?

Curiousity only

Yes, but it's not really a re-circumcision- the mohel would just ritually prick you with a needle.