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Author Topic: OO Calendar with Fasting Schedule?  (Read 4509 times) Average Rating: 0
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« on: December 28, 2009, 02:47:56 AM »

Today after Liturgy at the Greek Orthodox Church we attend (Father Chris's wonderful Church Smiley) we received beautiful calendars which indicated how and when we should fast for each day of the year. I noticed that on some Wednesdays and Fridays (besides the 50 days after Pascha) fish and dairy are permitted. So I was wondering how similar this EO fasting schedule is to our EOTC/OO fasting schedule. This calendar certainly makes it easy to keep up with the fasting and the specifics of fasting from day to day. If the OO fasting schedule is very different, then can anyone tell me how I can obtain an English calendar that includes the day to day fasting schedule?

Thanks.

Selam
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2009, 06:18:34 AM »

Check this out http://www.holytrinityorthodox.com/calendar/index.php?year=2008&today=24&month=12&trp=1
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2009, 11:12:08 AM »

Today after Liturgy at the Greek Orthodox Church we attend (Father Chris's wonderful Church Smiley) we received beautiful calendars which indicated how and when we should fast for each day of the year. I noticed that on some Wednesdays and Fridays (besides the 50 days after Pascha) fish and dairy are permitted. So I was wondering how similar this EO fasting schedule is to our EOTC/OO fasting schedule. This calendar certainly makes it easy to keep up with the fasting and the specifics of fasting from day to day. If the OO fasting schedule is very different, then can anyone tell me how I can obtain an English calendar that includes the day to day fasting schedule?

Thanks.

Selam

I"ve never seen dairy allowed during a fast except economia of sickness, young children etc. except the week before Great Lent.


I'm curious when does the Nativity Fast start for Armenians, as they continue the orginal celebration of Nativity and Theophany on the same day. Is it 40 days before Theophany/Nativity?
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2009, 12:22:03 PM »

November 16 was the start of the fast of Advent in the Armenian Church.  Is that fifty or forty days?  I should probably get a calendar and count.   Smiley

I think I know what Gebre is talking about regarding the calendar he got.  I've seen EO calendars    that actually have the fasting days shaded.  It's a good visual to tell people when to fast.  I've never seen OO calendars with that, although they will have notes telling you when Lent, Advent, etc. start.

In the Armenian tradition, you are supposed to give up everything that comes from an animal when you fast.  That includes dairy, fish, honey, etc.  I don't think we have any Wednesdays or Fridays when fish or dairy are allowed.  I could be wrong, of course.  I just haven't heard of any exceptions like that.
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2009, 12:28:00 PM »

November 16 was the start of the fast of Advent in the Armenian Church.  Is that fifty or forty days?  I should probably get a calendar and count.   Smiley

I think I know what Gebre is talking about regarding the calendar he got.  I've seen EO calendars    that actually have the fasting days shaded.  It's a good visual to tell people when to fast.  I've never seen OO calendars with that, although they will have notes telling you when Lent, Advent, etc. start.

In the Armenian tradition, you are supposed to give up everything that comes from an animal when you fast.  That includes dairy, fish, honey, etc.  I don't think we have any Wednesdays or Fridays when fish or dairy are allowed.  I could be wrong, of course.  I just haven't heard of any exceptions like that.

I never heard of honey being off the list (EO's it is just animals with blood).

Btw, in the Middle East EO's fish is allowed during the Nativity Fast.
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2009, 12:29:43 PM »

I think the honey prohibition is unique to the Armenian Church.
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2009, 12:35:30 PM »

Here's an article on fasting in the Armenian Church:

http://www.stjohnsarmenianchurch.org/images/ARMLENT.pdf

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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 12:56:32 PM »

The article is specifically about Lent, but Fr. Findikyan makes some interesting points, especially concerning the fact that there hasn't always been a uniform practice.  He mentions the honey prohibition.  I'm going to paste part of the article here:

Quote
WHAT CAN WE EAT DURING LENT?
 
This apparently simple question does not have a simple answer. The details of the authentic fasting tradition of the
Armenian Church are still encoded in ancient canons, patristic writings and liturgical commentaries that are just now
beginning to attract serious study. We know a few things for sure, however:

1. There is not one, absolute, universal set of fasting regulations valid for all parts of Armenia throughout the
centuries. The same can be said for all of the Eastern (Orthodox) Churches. Fasting rules varied from Church to
Church, and within a single Church from monastery to monastery, place to place, century to century. This is
especially true in Churches of the Byzantine liturgical tradition. We have reams of polemical letters, from the earliest
centuries of the Armenian Church, which attack the fasting practices of other Churches, notably our neighbors the
Greeks, and which defend our own Lenten rules against their assaults.
 
2. Fasting was generally rather severe in Armenia, particularly in ancient times. One of the Armenian words for Lent,
Aghoohats (Salt and Bread) was not an exaggeration. In at least some Armenian monasteries, the Lenten diet
Monday through Friday was salt, bread, and water. We know that lay people followed this regimen as well. I have
met Armenians from the old country who can remember that their parents or grandparents followed this discipline.
This is the actual meaning of the word “fasting,” eating nothing but bread, salt, and water.
 
3. No meat or animal products were eaten during Lent. Definitely not from Monday - Friday.
 
4. For the Armenians there is no difference between “fish” and “meat.” In other words, fish is the same as meat, and
neither were eaten Monday through Friday during Great Lent.
 
5. There is more uncertainty regarding wine (and all alcoholic beverages), oils (even olive oil), olives, honey, and
some other foods. Those following the strictest rules abstained from these foods as well, while others in some places
and times, did not.
 
WHAT ABOUT FASTING ON WEEKENDS?
 
Saturday and Sunday, from the earliest times, were not considered fasting days in the same way as Monday through
Friday. In most places and times in Armenia, the fast was lifted or moderated on Saturdays and Sundays. Saturday,
again, from ancient times, was devoted to the commemoration of saints and especially martyrs, who are the Church’s
testimony (proof) of Christ’s resurrection. You will note that during Lent in the Armenian Church saints are only
commemorated on Saturdays. During the rest of the year, saints are only commemorated on Mondays, Tuesdays,
Thursdays and Saturdays, and never on a day of fasting, Wednesday or Friday. The Armenian Church considers the
commemorating the martyrs to be incompatible with the spirituality of fasting.
 
As for Sunday, the Council of Nicea (325 AD) already prohibits fasting on any Sunday, because this is the Lord’s
Day, a day to celebrate the presence among us of the Bridegroom (see Luke 2:19 and parallels.)
 
Exactly how the Lenten fast was moderated on Saturdays and Sundays seems to have varied from place to place and
time to time. Canon #7 of the local Armenian Synod of Duin (719 AD) suggests that there was a tolerable variance in
weekend fasting practice in Armenia at the time:
 
And as for observing and breaking the fast on Saturdays and Sundays during the forty-days fast, this shall be left to
each one’s will, as long as each gives thanks to God without scruple and adversity, and without speaking ill of the
companion who desires to eat in moderation. Both are acceptable to God and are in the tradition of Christ’s
Church.  
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 01:01:46 PM by Salpy » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2009, 01:00:34 PM »

I think the honey prohibition is unique to the Armenian Church.

I've heard it from some Copts too, since it's an animal product.
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2009, 01:04:55 PM »

Gebre,

You may want to call or e-mail your Ethiopian parish and ask them if they have a calendar they can mail to you.  If they don't, try some of the other Ethiopian churches here in the US.  At least one of them is bound to have printed up a calendar with the fast and feast days marked.
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2009, 02:03:06 PM »

Most priests I have talked to about this subject seem reticent to indicate when we can eat on a fast day (to express it rather coarsely). Is it the 9th hour or the 6th? Is abstinence pretty near absolute, like the Muslim fast or can we 'cut the cloth..' For example, I have been told by the physician that I need to drink more than the time left after I have finished fasting would allow me. 

Please Ethiopians, Copts, Chalcedonians and Armenians report on what you expect to do on, say, any Wednesday or Friday during, shall we say, Lent.

 
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2009, 04:18:48 PM »

I've never heard my priest talk about a time period in which to eat on those days.  According to my priest you just abstain from animal products, which include meat, fish, dairy and honey.

Fr. Findikyan's article, though, indicates that there is historically a diversity of practice in the Armenian Church, so it could be that Armenians in the Middle East or in Armenia do it differently.

I've heard that Copts will wait until a particular time of the day before they start eating during Lent.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 04:19:21 PM by Salpy » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 04:48:13 PM »

Most priests I have talked to about this subject seem reticent to indicate when we can eat on a fast day (to express it rather coarsely). Is it the 9th hour or the 6th? Is abstinence pretty near absolute, like the Muslim fast or can we 'cut the cloth..' For example, I have been told by the physician that I need to drink more than the time left after I have finished fasting would allow me. 

Please Ethiopians, Copts, Chalcedonians and Armenians report on what you expect to do on, say, any Wednesday or Friday during, shall we say, Lent.

In our Church we usually have Liturgy on fast days. We can eat when the Liturgy is over, usually around 11:00 AM. Because of that I always use 11:00 AM as a standard time on all fasting days.

For the OP, if you want a list of Coptic fasts and feasts for 2010 go here http://www.suscopts.org/stgeorgedaytona/Annual_Calendar_2010.html

There is a more detailed, bound Calendar which includes Lectionary and Synaxarion information write to:

Holy Virgin Mary Coptic Orthodox Church
4900 Cleland Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90050

« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 04:48:49 PM by coptickev » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2009, 06:02:27 PM »

Is it the 9th hour or the 6th? Is abstinence pretty near absolute, like the Muslim fast or can we 'cut the cloth..'

The total abstinence from food and drink on strict fasting days (those days without oil in the EO tradition) lasts until the 9th Hour. However, to what extent one follows this rule depends on one's spiritual Father, health, etc.

I know that the Coptic and Tewahedo churches have the same tradition of abstinence until the 9th Hour, but - like in the EO Church - many don't follow it, but simply abstain from animal products.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 06:03:31 PM by Orthodox11 » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2009, 06:31:24 PM »

For example, I have been told by the physician that I need to drink more than the time left after I have finished fasting would allow me. 

I've never heard of a case related to the fasting, where if a physician felt something was medically necessary that the spiritual father/parish priest wasn't prepared to work with the parishoner to adjust the rule for that person to take account of the medical needs.
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« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2009, 07:13:47 AM »

In the Syriac church too fasting till the 9th hour is enjoined and the example of the saints is before us .  Nowadays fasting till the 9th hour is especially emphasized on the Fridays of Great Lent. But most people just abstain from meat and milk products and I guess strict fasting is according to the measure suitable for each.
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 06:24:51 AM »

Most priests I have talked to about this subject seem reticent to indicate when we can eat on a fast day (to express it rather coarsely). Is it the 9th hour or the 6th? Is abstinence pretty near absolute, like the Muslim fast or can we 'cut the cloth..' For example, I have been told by the physician that I need to drink more than the time left after I have finished fasting would allow me. 

Please Ethiopians, Copts, Chalcedonians and Armenians report on what you expect to do on, say, any Wednesday or Friday during, shall we say, Lent.

In the EOTC, fasting is strictly observed by all faithful members of the church. There are approximately 250 fast days in the year. There are seven official fasting periods.
1. All Wednesday and Fridays, except for the 50 days after Easter.
2. The Lenten fast of 55 days.
3. The Nineveh fast of 3 days.
4. The vigils, or gahad of Christmas and epiphany.
5. The fast of the apostles; this varies in length, depending upon the date of 
     Easter, and maybe a minimum of 14 days and maximum of 44.
6. The fast of the prophets of 43 days.
7. The fast of the assumption, 15 days in august.
During fasting periods, we abstain from meat and all animal products: meat, milk, butter and eggs. No food or drink is taken before noon or 3:00 p.m, at the earliest: even then only a simple repast should be taken. Pregnant women, the seriously sick and travelers are exempted from fasting. In Holy Week no food is taken before 3:00 p.m. or later. The really devout fast completely from Good Friday till Easter Sunday, while others eat only the evening meal on these days.

For more information: http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/ethiopian/worship.html

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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2009, 07:14:54 PM »


3. The Nineveh fast of 3 days.
6. The fast of the prophets of 43 days.

I'm interested in these two. I recently recieved a very nice Coptic calendar from St. Anthony's Monastery in CA and they have the Fast of Jonah the Prophet which is the same as the Ninevah fast I'm sure which begins on January 25th (Tubah 17th) to the 27th (19th). I'm wondering, why does the Eastern Orthodox Church have this fast? Was it later established or something else? Is this fast observed in the Syriac or Armenian churches?
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2009, 07:22:29 PM »


3. The Nineveh fast of 3 days.
6. The fast of the prophets of 43 days.

I'm interested in these two. I recently recieved a very nice Coptic calendar from St. Anthony's Monastery in CA and they have the Fast of Jonah the Prophet which is the same as the Ninevah fast I'm sure which begins on January 25th (Tubah 17th) to the 27th (19th). I'm wondering, why does the Eastern Orthodox Church have this fast? Was it later established or something else? Is this fast observed in the Syriac or Armenian churches?

It was originally a Syriac Fast, which Copts readily acknowledge (the Pope is known who adopted it with the Syriac Church, but the name escapes me).  IIRC Salpy posted about the Armenian observation.
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2009, 09:02:29 PM »

In 2010 the Remembrance of the Prophet Jonah will be January 29.

The Fast of Jonah has been discussed a few times, particularly here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8191.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5139.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8296.0.html#top
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Tags: Fast of Jonah Armenian Church calendar fasting Lent Coptic Orthodox Church Syriac Orthodox Indian Orthodox Ethiopian Orthodox Church OO calendars 
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