Nutrition and Diet

[celticfan1888]

Also, my comments are not based on "visits". First, I posted links to government publications to support my arguments. Second, I used to live here. I am not some weeaboo who passed through for 10 days.

You act like a weeaboo.

[Marc1152]

What does Cristiano Ronaldo eat?

http://www.ronaldo7.net/faq/what-does-cristiano-ronaldo-eat.html

We should be careful about taking up the diets of people who may be genetic outliers. In other words, there are people who can eat what ever they want to, get little to no exercise ( though of course Ronaldo does) and still be lean and have rippling muscles.

There is also the factor of family heredity. If your parents were both lean, chances are that you will also be lean. However, lean looking people can still have many or all of the makers of poor health that obese people can have. Diabetes, heart disease etc. if they eat a crappy diet.

Remember Jim Fix? He was the famous marathon runner who dropped dead of a heart attack. Heart attacks were unheard of in earlier times.    

[Marc1152]

Also, my comments are not based on "visits". First, I posted links to government publications to support my arguments. Second, I used to live here. I am not some weeaboo who passed through for 10 days.

You act like a weeaboo.

Japanese Women who move the the USA develop breast cancer at rates similar to Americans within a generation.

The Japanese diet is very rich in fish, they have a genetically homogenous population and they fully recognize that carbs ( rice mostly) is fattening and they will cut back on it if they see themselves gaining weight. They also eat a fraction of the sugar that we do.

In the US we are told the opposite. We are told that grains should be the foundational building block of out diets. We also use Wheat as our primary grain which is particularly noxious.

See lectures about the book Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDkJEF9aBY

[Ignatius II]

We may also want to be careful to not overdue protein intake.  Several studies have shown that high protein diets may cause an increase in the plasma growth factor IGF-1 which may cause an increase in the growth of cancerous tumours.   Moderation and a natural diet may be the best answer for a healthy diet and also the balance of our Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acid intake which can me a marker of overall health.

[Justin Kissel]

I'm getting fat again. Bah humbug!

[celticfan1888]

Also, my comments are not based on "visits". First, I posted links to government publications to support my arguments. Second, I used to live here. I am not some weeaboo who passed through for 10 days.

You act like a weeaboo.

Japanese Women who move the the USA develop breast cancer at rates similar to Americans within a generation.

The Japanese diet is very rich in fish, they have a genetically homogenous population and they fully recognize that carbs ( rice mostly) is fattening and they will cut back on it if they see themselves gaining weight. They also eat a fraction of the sugar that we do.

In the US we are told the opposite. We are told that grains should be the foundational building block of out diets. We also use Wheat as our primary grain which is particularly noxious.

See lectures about the book Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDkJEF9aBY

Who is we?

Fish is the main thing I eat...hello...

And I know that grains are not an optimal dietary foundation...

Why are you telling me this??

Although...I disagree with you on that carbs are bad. As an athlete, I have to eat a ton of carbs...

[Marc1152]

We may also want to be careful to not overdue protein intake.  Several studies have shown that high protein diets may cause an increase in the plasma growth factor IGF-1 which may cause an increase in the growth of cancerous tumours.   Moderation and a natural diet may be the best answer for a healthy diet and also the balance of our Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acid intake which can me a marker of overall health.

A common miss conception of low carb diets is that they are high protein diets. Actually they are high fat, moderate protein, which probably mimics more closely a hunter gatherer diet. Properly they are called "Low Carb High Fat" (LCHF).

When humans lived in mixed packs of dogs and people who hunted together as a team, the dogs were given most of the protein ( the meat part) and the people preferred the fat. To this day dogs cant have too much fat in their diets but need lots of protein, while people need the fat and should not over do the protein.

Here is the page of a Swedish Physician who is a big proponent of LCHF diets. This way of eating has become so popular in Sweden that they recently had a butter shortage

www.dietdoctor.com

[celticfan1888]

Here is the page of a Swedish Physician who is a big proponent of LCHF diets. This way of eating has become so popular in Sweden that they recently had a butter shortage

They had that in Norway too.

[Marc1152]

Also, my comments are not based on "visits". First, I posted links to government publications to support my arguments. Second, I used to live here. I am not some weeaboo who passed through for 10 days.

You act like a weeaboo.

Japanese Women who move the the USA develop breast cancer at rates similar to Americans within a generation.

The Japanese diet is very rich in fish, they have a genetically homogenous population and they fully recognize that carbs ( rice mostly) is fattening and they will cut back on it if they see themselves gaining weight. They also eat a fraction of the sugar that we do.

In the US we are told the opposite. We are told that grains should be the foundational building block of out diets. We also use Wheat as our primary grain which is particularly noxious.

See lectures about the book Wheat Belly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDkJEF9aBY

Who is we?

Fish is the main thing I eat...hello...

And I know that grains are not an optimal dietary foundation...

Why are you telling me this??

Although...I disagree with you on that carbs are bad. As an athlete, I have to eat a ton of carbs...

Right, athletes have a different need for fast burning carbs than the rest of us.  

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

[celticfan1888]

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

For the paleo diet, I have a fear of being glycogen depleted going into matches as obviously football (soccer) is an extremely glycogen depleting activity, especially at a pro level and I'm afraid of crashing late in games and my repeated sprint ability decreasing.

[elephant]

I developed  ulcerative colitis and had to stop eating grains, other starches and sugar, since they make me much sicker.  I also had to give up most vegetables, but hopefully that is temporary.   I had stopped eating meat years ago, but added fish, poultry and eggs to my meals.   My primary fat source is nut butter.  Now after 4 months I'm feeling much better and I've lost the 15 pounds that I attributed to middle age.   I run and lift weights and can't say that the change in diet has made either harder.   My long  run at this time is only about 8 miles, so I can't claim to have the nutritional needs of an endurance athlete.   I can tolerate a small amount of white rice, so I'm using that to support the running.  When I was younger I did sucessfully compete in power-lifting and agree that the amount of protein consumed by the average guy in the gym may be excessive.  Before getting sick I would not have wanted to change to this sort of diet!
Hopefully I will figure out this diet as an Orthodox before Great Lent arrives, any good advice?   

Love, elephant

[Marc1152]

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

For the paleo diet, I have a fear of being glycogen depleted going into matches as obviously football (soccer) is an extremely glycogen depleting activity, especially at a pro level and I'm afraid of crashing late in games and my repeated sprint ability decreasing.

What kind of carbs do you eat? Are you consuming lots of paste and bread which is the layman's image of carbo loading?

I also wonder if athletes who get very heavy after their career is over is due to continuing a high carb diet when it is no longer necessary. Carbs, especially wheat has properties that are addicting and drive hunger.

[Marc1152]

I developed  ulcerative colitis and had to stop eating grains, other starches and sugar, since they make me much sicker.  I also had to give up most vegetables, but hopefully that is temporary.   I had stopped eating meat years ago, but added fish, poultry and eggs to my meals.   My primary fat source is nut butter.  Now after 4 months I'm feeling much better and I've lost the 15 pounds that I attributed to middle age.   I run and lift weights and can't say that the change in diet has made either harder.   My long  run at this time is only about 8 miles, so I can't claim to have the nutritional needs of an endurance athlete.   I can tolerate a small amount of white rice, so I'm using that to support the running.  When I was younger I did sucessfully compete in power-lifting and agree that the amount of protein consumed by the average guy in the gym may be excessive.  Before getting sick I would not have wanted to change to this sort of diet!
Hopefully I will figure out this diet as an Orthodox before Great Lent arrives, any good advice?   

Love, elephant

We had a separate thread about how to eat this way during fasts but we can take this up here too.

The trick is to keep your  fat intake up. Since we cant eat butter ( though I have not heard of Nut Butter but it sounds Lenten) I suggest Coconut Oil. While you can certainly use it to cook with, I think that is not enough to satiate your hunger during fasts.

 I make it into a tea. Boil a cup of water and add a large tablespoon of coconut oil and then drink it down.. Yes it's a greasy solution that is borderline disagreeable but you will get used to it. I would drink this three times per day before regular meals. At the minimum once per day.

Your hunger should be under control if you do this. Then lots of leafy vegetables cooked or raw, some fruit, salads, and all the lenten seafood you can eat without getting sick of it (Shrimp, Calamari, etc). There is also a product called "Quorn" which is a mushroom that they fashion into ersatz chicken patties and similar, like they do with soy ( I would stay clear of soy). It is a great protein substitute and pretty tasty. 

And to drink, Almond Milk or even better Coconut Milk which is now available at most groceries these days.

There is also stuff like Almond Flour that you can make into pancakes and also No Carb Bread made from Almond or Coconut flour that you can get online. A slice of No Carb bread with a smear of your Nut Butter sounds like a winner.

[jmbejdl]

I developed  ulcerative colitis and had to stop eating grains, other starches and sugar, since they make me much sicker.  I also had to give up most vegetables, but hopefully that is temporary.   I had stopped eating meat years ago, but added fish, poultry and eggs to my meals.   My primary fat source is nut butter.  Now after 4 months I'm feeling much better and I've lost the 15 pounds that I attributed to middle age.   I run and lift weights and can't say that the change in diet has made either harder.   My long  run at this time is only about 8 miles, so I can't claim to have the nutritional needs of an endurance athlete.   I can tolerate a small amount of white rice, so I'm using that to support the running.  When I was younger I did sucessfully compete in power-lifting and agree that the amount of protein consumed by the average guy in the gym may be excessive.  Before getting sick I would not have wanted to change to this sort of diet!
Hopefully I will figure out this diet as an Orthodox before Great Lent arrives, any good advice?   

Love, elephant

We had a separate thread about how to eat this way during fasts but we can take this up here too.

The trick is to keep your  fat intake up. Since we cant eat butter ( though I have not heard of Nut Butter but it sounds Lenten) I suggest Coconut Oil. While you can certainly use it to cook with, I think that is not enough to satiate your hunger during fasts.

 I make it into a tea. Boil a cup of water and add a large tablespoon of coconut oil and then drink it down.. Yes it's a greasy solution that is borderline disagreeable but you will get used to it. I would drink this three times per day before regular meals. At the minimum once per day.

Your hunger should be under control if you do this. Then lots of leafy vegetables cooked or raw, some fruit, salads, and all the lenten seafood you can eat without getting sick of it (Shrimp, Calamari, etc). There is also a product called "Quorn" which is a mushroom that they fashion into ersatz chicken patties and similar, like they do with soy ( I would stay clear of soy). It is a great protein substitute and pretty tasty. 

And to drink, Almond Milk or even better Coconut Milk which is now available at most groceries these days.

There is also stuff like Almond Flour that you can make into pancakes and also No Carb Bread made from Almond or Coconut flour that you can get online. A slice of No Carb bread with a smear of your Nut Butter sounds like a winner.

Unfortunately Quorn whilst predominantly mycoprotein is not lenten - it uses egg whites as a binder.

James

[celticfan1888]

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

For the paleo diet, I have a fear of being glycogen depleted going into matches as obviously football (soccer) is an extremely glycogen depleting activity, especially at a pro level and I'm afraid of crashing late in games and my repeated sprint ability decreasing.

What kind of carbs do you eat? Are you consuming lots of paste and bread which is the layman's image of carbo loading?

I also wonder if athletes who get very heavy after their career is over is due to continuing a high carb diet when it is no longer necessary. Carbs, especially wheat has properties that are addicting and drive hunger.

My daily snacks with sizable carbs:
plain bagel (120 calories)
banana (109 calories)
peanut butter and jelly sandwich (85 calories)
soft pretzel (85 calories)
apple (80 calories)
As well as: TRUE-MASS® Ultra-Premium Lean Mass Gainer - http://www.bsnonline.net/details/truemass.html (Total Carbohydrate 90g - 30% DV (2000 cal.), Dietary Fiber 6g - 24% DV (2000 cal.), Sugars 15g) (700 calories/about 840 with milk)

Granted, I eat 3200 calories a day.


I've always hear that as long as you don’t exceed your calorie budget, you don’t have to worry with too much carbohydrate intake. And excess calories of carbohydrates are actually less fattening than are excess calories of fat, because the body spends calories to convert excess carbohydrates into body fat. In comparison, the body easily converts excess dietary fat into body fat. 

[elephant]

Thanks Marc1152,

I just ordered coconut oil and some coconut flour, and I have already been using almond flour for baking (such as it is without sugar or dairy!)  I've been using a little soya milk, but not so much that switching to almond would be very different. Did you know you can whip the thick top of coconut milk like cream?
I'll have to look up Quorn.  I used to eat nutritional yeast, but when I started my UC medication I had an allergic reaction to it so that's not an option.
Love, elephant

[Marc1152]

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

For the paleo diet, I have a fear of being glycogen depleted going into matches as obviously football (soccer) is an extremely glycogen depleting activity, especially at a pro level and I'm afraid of crashing late in games and my repeated sprint ability decreasing.

What kind of carbs do you eat? Are you consuming lots of paste and bread which is the layman's image of carbo loading?

I also wonder if athletes who get very heavy after their career is over is due to continuing a high carb diet when it is no longer necessary. Carbs, especially wheat has properties that are addicting and drive hunger.

My daily snacks with sizable carbs:
plain bagel (120 calories)
banana (109 calories)
peanut butter and jelly sandwich (85 calories)
soft pretzel (85 calories)
apple (80 calories)
As well as: TRUE-MASS® Ultra-Premium Lean Mass Gainer - http://www.bsnonline.net/details/truemass.html (Total Carbohydrate 90g - 30% DV (2000 cal.), Dietary Fiber 6g - 24% DV (2000 cal.), Sugars 15g) (700 calories/about 840 with milk)

Granted, I eat 3200 calories a day.


I've always hear that as long as you don’t exceed your calorie budget, you don’t have to worry with too much carbohydrate intake. And excess calories of carbohydrates are actually less fattening than are excess calories of fat, because the body spends calories to convert excess carbohydrates into body fat. In comparison, the body easily converts excess dietary fat into body fat.  

And excess calories of carbohydrates are actually less fattening than are excess calories of fat, because the body spends calories to convert excess carbohydrates into body fat. In comparison, the body easily converts excess dietary fat into body fat.  

That's not true. You should read "Why we get fat" by Gary Taubes or at least go to you tube and hear the lecture version.

Your body holds on to fat in the presence of insulin. It releases fat in the absence of insulin. Therefore, if you keep your insulin steady your body will not hold on to fat and in the absence of sugar and carbs will use your existing body fat as fuel.

Dietary fat is absolutely insulin neutral, it will not spike your insulin.   Therefore it does not cause your body to hold on to fat. Eating fat will not make you fat.

Carbs on the other hand are quickly converted by your body into sugar. Sugar is a quick energy food. Carbs spike insulin, insulin drives accumulation of body fat.

Most noxious of all are wheat and products that contain wheat. Two slices of whole wheat bread will spike your insulin higher and faster than six teaspoons of table sugar and more than a bowl of ice cream. Dietary Fat will not affect insulin at all..

Here is some information about wheat consumption:

http://wellnessmama.com/3486/do-you-have-a-wheat-belly-interview-with-dr-davis/

  

[Ignatius II]

Part of the fallacy with low fat diets is that there is no satisfaction that comes with the feeling associated with a higher fat intake.  Carbohydrates are digested faster and less filling than fats. Fats are more than twice the calorie concentration per unit volume.  So if ingesting primarily carbs, there is a need to replenish them quicker than the slower digested fats.  As mentioned, carbohydrates, particularly low glycemic or simple carbs also cause an insulin spike. As a need for the sensation of filling full occurs an individual will typically eat more carbs.  this basically means more calories to provide the same feeling of being full or satisfied and thus the more addition of unnecessary fat deposited on the body.

[TheMathematician]

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

For the paleo diet, I have a fear of being glycogen depleted going into matches as obviously football (soccer) is an extremely glycogen depleting activity, especially at a pro level and I'm afraid of crashing late in games and my repeated sprint ability decreasing.

What kind of carbs do you eat? Are you consuming lots of paste and bread which is the layman's image of carbo loading?

I also wonder if athletes who get very heavy after their career is over is due to continuing a high carb diet when it is no longer necessary. Carbs, especially wheat has properties that are addicting and drive hunger.

It was only high school, but i swam and got used to being able to eat pretty much whatever i wanted, and ive never managed to learn yet to fix it, and im mpaying for it. im up at LEAST a stone, mabye two.

[Justin Kissel]

I started the pre-paleo-peanut-m&m diet today. Apparently scientists have discovered that this was the primary fuel of most australopithecines. 

[Marc1152]

See The Paleo Diet for Athletes:

PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise

http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf

For the paleo diet, I have a fear of being glycogen depleted going into matches as obviously football (soccer) is an extremely glycogen depleting activity, especially at a pro level and I'm afraid of crashing late in games and my repeated sprint ability decreasing.

What kind of carbs do you eat? Are you consuming lots of paste and bread which is the layman's image of carbo loading?

I also wonder if athletes who get very heavy after their career is over is due to continuing a high carb diet when it is no longer necessary. Carbs, especially wheat has properties that are addicting and drive hunger.

It was only high school, but i swam and got used to being able to eat pretty much whatever i wanted, and ive never managed to learn yet to fix it, and im mpaying for it. im up at LEAST a stone, mabye two.

There are a couple of things you may want to try without going for the full Low Carb Diet.

Any one of these can dramatically cut your weight down. I would pick the one that hit's your weakness the most.

Either

Cut out all sugar. Sugar is toxic. It spikes insulin. It keeps you hungry and is a bad primary fuel for your body but you body will opt for it thinking you need quick energy. If you cut out all things sweet, that alone should give you some good results.

And or

Cut out all Wheat and anything with Wheat in it. Wheat is addictive, it drives hunger and spikes insulin more that sugar beleive it or not. Two slices of whole wheat bread spikes insulin faster and higher than 6 teaspoons of sugar

Then, if you start feeling better and looking better you can consider counting carbs ( rather than calories) . If you keep your carb intake at or below 20 grams per day the pounds will drop off. If you count carbs then you really cant eat sugar or any grains . Substituent with meat, fat, fresh vegetables, cheese, heavy cream, lots of butter and sex...  

You tube the following:

Sugar the bitter truth -Dr. Lustig

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Why we get fat - Gary Taubes  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4

Wheat Belly - Dr. Davis  

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrYg22BU9oU

and go to :

 www.dietdoctor.com

[PeterTheAleut]

Cuz Oscar Mayer has a way of screwin' up our DNA.

[biro]

I started the pre-paleo-peanut-m&m diet today. Apparently scientists have discovered that this was the primary fuel of most australopithecines. 

You do that too? That one's my favorite.

[J Michael]

I started the pre-paleo-peanut-m&m diet today. Apparently scientists have discovered that this was the primary fuel of most australopithecines. 

 

It's even better when accompanied by generous amounts of Guinness, though if you're a strict vegetarian you should probably go for the Bell's 8 year old whiskey. 

[celticfan1888]

and sex...

Did you forget what kind of site this is?

[Ignatius II]

Marc-

Just curious how proponents of the Weston Price diet mindset deal with individuals who are purine sensitive and prone to gout.  I am not affected myself, but I know an individual who struggles with it.  He can't eat very much beef or he will have a severe gout attack. As you know, high levels of purines are typically found in High Protein foods like most meats and some beans and grains.

[Marc1152]

Marc-

Just curious how proponents of the Weston Price diet mindset deal with individuals who are purine sensitive and prone to gout.  I am not affected myself, but I know an individual who struggles with it.  He can't eat very much beef or he will have a severe gout attack. As you know, high levels of purines are typically found in High Protein foods like most meats and some beans and grains.

Someone asked that earlier. I dont know too much about it but I had posted a video where they speculated that a strict Weston Price diet may in fact cure gout. I have to go back and revisit it but the logic is pretty simple. A natural diet in theory should not cause your body to rebel. Therefore, you may not be eating a Weston Price type diet correctly.

For example, a Weston Price, Paleo, LCHF ( Low carb high fat) type diet is not a high protein diet in the first place. It is a high fat diet, Protein intake is moderate, not high. Fat intake is high. Then you need to look at the balance of fats. Are you consuming unhealthy vegetable oils or are you careful to balance Omega 3 and Omega 6 fats ?.. If you are eating lots of store bought grain fed meat, then you are not really on a Weston Price type diet. Grain fed meat is mostly Omega 6 fat which in abundance is very inflammatory and may be the culprit in thinking "High Proeitn Diets" cause gout.

If you eat grass fed meat then you will get the natural balance of Omega 6 and Omega 3. If you also include lots of mono unsaturated fats and saturated fats ( considered healthy on these diets) in other words use lots of and lots of butter, olive oil and coconut oil then your over all inflammatory load may drop dramatically. It is entirely possible to eat a healthy diet in the Weston Price definition and exclude meat. We do it during fasting all the time ( or try too). No sugar few carbs or highly refined foods. Lots of coconut oil and vegetables and lenten seafood...etc.

If I had gout  I would go get a recent copy of the Weston Price newsletter and find an ad for a Weston Price oriented nutritionist. There are lots of them listed in the newsletter and get the advice of a professional.  

[Shiny]

ALL DAY

[Marc1152]

mmmmmmmmmmmm  Insulin

[theistgal]

I know this is a radical idea, but just because the Weston Price diet (or any other diet/eating regimen) works for *some* people doesn't mean it's good for *all* people.

Diets aren't the Pope (or the 7 Councils ;-) ). Take them all with a HUGE grain of salt (or a small one if your sodium is restricted)!

[Marc1152]

I know this is a radical idea, but just because the Weston Price diet (or any other diet/eating regimen) works for *some* people doesn't mean it's good for *all* people.

Diets aren't the Pope (or the 7 Councils ;-) ). Take them all with a HUGE grain of salt (or a small one if your sodium is restricted)!

Agreed.. There are different categories that people fall into. Some tolerate more meat, some do better with more vegetables etc.   There are even people who are genetic outliers who can eat anything anytime and have rippling muscles and never get ill. There are also different body types the are inherited from your family. Some people are naturally slender and some naturally thicker.

However, in the main, there are certain elements  of Diet that hold true for most people within a fairly narrow spectrum.

For just one example, vegetable oils when consumed regularly are bad for everyone. You may not be down to your last bit of dietary tolerance but they will still be a negative. Eventually, enough negatives and too few health enhancing positives in your diet accumulate and you go into a health deficit. Diabetes is at epidemic levels never before seen in human history.. So it may be wise to understand the good the bad and the ugly.  

Some things are just common sense. Here is a cute you tube that I have posted before. It's not all that complicated:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCFZoqmKf5M

[theistgal]

True - but no matter what we eat or drink, we could still die today. Just do the best you can and try not to overthink it. ;-)

[Marc1152]

True - but no matter what we eat or drink, we could still die today. Just do the best you can and try not to overthink it. ;-)

I think the idea is that we don't want to live for years and years being sick and debilitated which is becoming the norm.

[theistgal]

Yet that can also happen to any of us, at any time, for reasons known only to God.

[Marc1152]

Yet that can also happen to any of us, at any time, for reasons known only to God.

People usually don't go from being all the way healthy one day and then to all the way unhealthy the next.
Yes, people get hit by trucks and trains and some people have a massive coronary and drop dead never being sick a day in their life. However, more and more as medicine advances, they can keep you alive when years ago the same illnesses or accidents would have killed you.

So we are often facing a long decline. That decline can entail real hardship not just for you but for your loved ones. The consequences of a long run of ever declining health effects your family and friends who often must take care of you or at least give you lots of help or even just miss your participation in things ( too tired, cant walk well anymore, cant hear, cant see , too much pain, too dizzy, my migraines are acting up, cant hold my bladder ...on and on).

It's true that the time of your death is a mystery known only to God. But good Nutrition isn't.

[Arachne]

If tomatoes are fruit, does that mean ketchup is a smoothie?

[theistgal]

No, but because there is so much information available now than there used to be - so much of it conflicting - it can be very difficult for the average person to ascertain what is really best for them.

I'm familiar with DENTIST Weston Price's writings and theories and he has some good points; but it's also worth noting he was a DENTIST - many of whom promote a lot of crackpot ... excuse me! "alternate" theories about medicine, nutrition and health, which again should be taken with great caution.

[theistgal]

P.S. my "no" above was to the previous poster, sorry!

[Justin Kissel]

If tomatoes are fruit, does that mean ketchup is a smoothie?

 

[theistgal]

Haha, no, but you can put ketchup IN a smoothie to spice it up. 

[Shiny]

Haha, no, but you can put ketchup IN a smoothie to spice it up. 

wut

[orthonorm]

I see marc is back to his posting of "science".

At least he seems to have gotten the message from my constant ridiculing of his "ideas" and has moderated a bit.

marc,

You are welcome.

We'll get you to a reasonable position soon.

[theistgal]

Haha, no, but you can put ketchup IN a smoothie to spice it up. 

wut

Why not? Ketchup tastes good on veggies = veggie smoothie = ketchup smoothie. 

[Marc1152]

No, but because there is so much information available now than there used to be - so much of it conflicting - it can be very difficult for the average person to ascertain what is really best for them.

I'm familiar with DENTIST Weston Price's writings and theories and he has some good points; but it's also worth noting he was a DENTIST - many of whom promote a lot of crackpot ... excuse me! "alternate" theories about medicine, nutrition and health, which again should be taken with great caution.

A big part of his observations was that people who ate their native Traditional Diet usually had perfect teeth. The had a wide arches, broad faces and never  had any cavities, ever. When they switched to a western diet the next generation had crowded teeth and narrow faces. He then went on to observe the effects of Traditional foods in several physical areas..

Observations are observations. He took pictures  No photo shop back then either...His text was standard reading in Medical Schools for decades.

Science marches on. The fact is that the basic elements of Traditional Diets have undergone rigorous scrutiny by people you wont be able to call a crackpot. There  is an ever increasing consensus building that says these basic elements will indeed lead to better health and that the standard advice of the last few decades is based on terrible Science and is the cause of much of the epidemic of Obesity, Diabetes, Cancer and Heart Disease....  ( Low fat, high carb, lots of grains, vegetable oils etc.).


In fact the founder of the central theories of this wrong dietary advice was a man named Dr. Ansel Keys. We know he faked much of the data in his studies in order to show correlations that really didnt exist. He was the guy that came up with the idea that a diet high in fat causes heart disease. His study showed a definite line between countries that had high fat diets and also high rates of Heart problems. But e left out all the other countries that ate high fat but didnt have high rates of heart disease and also the ones that had low fat diets but high rates of heart disease. He Gerry-rigged his study..... He was a Bio-Chemist and not a dentist btw. The Dentist was right, the Bio Chemist was wrong..Life is funny sometimes

Here is an excellent You Tube if you want to learn more.. Decide for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0khESue2bA

And a short cute one about Ansel Keys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

[Marc1152]

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OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Free-For-All > Non-Religious Topics (Moderator: Pravoslavbob) > Topic: Nutrition and Diet