Nutrition and Diet

[Sauron]

I found a link to the recent Gary Taubes article in Newsweek:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/06/why-the-campaign-to-stop-america-s-obesity-crisis-keeps-failing.html?fb_ref=article&fb_source=home_oneline

Does he explain why Canadian Inuit live a decade less than other Canadians?

I think he is smart enough to figure that one out ( see post above)..The real question is why you would throw your glove down about something so easy to understand...


This article is from 1975 so the average ages should be adjusted up some but you'll get the point. Alcoholics live about 10 years less than nonalcoholics

http://bioinst.cm.utexas.edu/williams/255.htm
Alcoholics Anonymous indicate that the average life span of the alcoholic male is about 55 or 56 years, whereas life of the non-alcoholic male averages 66 or 67 years)

There are three other diseases whose toll is as great as that of alcoholism�heart and circulatory disease, mental disease, and cancer. We do not have the necessary knowledge to prevent these diseases, and a great deal of research must still be done to obtain it. But we already know how to prevent alcoholism; all that is needed is to put this knowledge into practice.

So according to you, 100% of Inuit are alcoholic and 0% of Canadians are?

[Marc1152]

I found a link to the recent Gary Taubes article in Newsweek:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/06/why-the-campaign-to-stop-america-s-obesity-crisis-keeps-failing.html?fb_ref=article&fb_source=home_oneline

Does he explain why Canadian Inuit live a decade less than other Canadians?

I think he is smart enough to figure that one out ( see post above)..The real question is why you would throw your glove down about something so easy to understand...


This article is from 1975 so the average ages should be adjusted up some but you'll get the point. Alcoholics live about 10 years less than nonalcoholics

http://bioinst.cm.utexas.edu/williams/255.htm
Alcoholics Anonymous indicate that the average life span of the alcoholic male is about 55 or 56 years, whereas life of the non-alcoholic male averages 66 or 67 years)

There are three other diseases whose toll is as great as that of alcoholism�heart and circulatory disease, mental disease, and cancer. We do not have the necessary knowledge to prevent these diseases, and a great deal of research must still be done to obtain it. But we already know how to prevent alcoholism; all that is needed is to put this knowledge into practice.

So according to you, 100% of Inuit are alcoholic and 0% of Canadians are?

Wow..You really think you have something here?

I think we are dealing with a very isolated impoverish population with a very high rate of alcoholism. They live in the severest weather conditions on earth. Most have no access to an ambulance or nearby hospital. They have recently been introduced to the Western Diet which has caused high rates of diabetes and obesity.They hunt for food and some still hunt whales in little boats. And you cant figure out why they don't live as long as other Canadians?

[Sauron]

I found a link to the recent Gary Taubes article in Newsweek:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/06/why-the-campaign-to-stop-america-s-obesity-crisis-keeps-failing.html?fb_ref=article&fb_source=home_oneline

Does he explain why Canadian Inuit live a decade less than other Canadians?

I think he is smart enough to figure that one out ( see post above)..The real question is why you would throw your glove down about something so easy to understand...


This article is from 1975 so the average ages should be adjusted up some but you'll get the point. Alcoholics live about 10 years less than nonalcoholics

http://bioinst.cm.utexas.edu/williams/255.htm
Alcoholics Anonymous indicate that the average life span of the alcoholic male is about 55 or 56 years, whereas life of the non-alcoholic male averages 66 or 67 years)

There are three other diseases whose toll is as great as that of alcoholism�heart and circulatory disease, mental disease, and cancer. We do not have the necessary knowledge to prevent these diseases, and a great deal of research must still be done to obtain it. But we already know how to prevent alcoholism; all that is needed is to put this knowledge into practice.

So according to you, 100% of Inuit are alcoholic and 0% of Canadians are?

Wow..You really think you have something here?

I think we are dealing with a very isolated impoverish population with a very high rate of alcoholism. They live in the severest weather conditions on earth. Most have no access to an ambulance or nearby hospitl. They have recently been introduced to the Western Diet which has caused high rates of diabetes and obesity.They hunt for food and some still hunt whales in little boats. And you cant figure out why they don't live as long as other Canadians?

Wow, now you are just making up information in your head. Have you even been to Canada or spent any times with First Nations people? Ever met a Tlingit? I have.

I have before me a recent Institute of Public Health report on the Inuit. Do you want to reconsider your position before I post some facts and embarrass you again?

[PeterTheAleut]

[Marc1152]

And you are clear that Eskimo's are not eating a Paleo type diet anymore? Sugar and junk foods have been in their diet for a long time now.. People who eat Lucky Charms and drink  Budweiser probably have no particular nutritional advantage over other Canadians.

 

So what's your point, exactly?

I have before me a recent Institute of Public Health report on the Inuit. Do you want to reconsider your position before I post some facts and embarrass you again?

Please do because everything you have said so far is moronic. Maybe you can still redeem yourself..

Last reminder before you waste more of our time: They no longer eat their traditional diet.

[Sauron]

And you are clear that Eskimo's are not eating a Paleo type diet anymore? Sugar and junk foods have been in their diet for a long time now.. People who eat Lucky Charms and drink  Budweiser probably have no particular nutritional advantage over other Canadians.

 

So what's your point, exactly?

I have before me a recent Institute of Public Health report on the Inuit. Do you want to reconsider your position before I post some facts and embarrass you again?

Please do because everything you have said so far is moronic. Maybe you can still redeem yourself..

Last reminder before you waste more of our time: They no longer eat their traditional diet.

If the problem with the Inuit is that they are eating the same as non-Inuit Canadians, why do they live so much less?

You can't keep your act together. Earlier today you said, "They hunt for food and some still hunt whales in little boats." Now you say they eat Lucky Charms. Well, which is it? Are they hunting and eating whale or having Tim Horton's?

[TheMathematician]

And you are clear that Eskimo's are not eating a Paleo type diet anymore? Sugar and junk foods have been in their diet for a long time now.. People who eat Lucky Charms and drink  Budweiser probably have no particular nutritional advantage over other Canadians.

 

So what's your point, exactly?

I have before me a recent Institute of Public Health report on the Inuit. Do you want to reconsider your position before I post some facts and embarrass you again?

Please do because everything you have said so far is moronic. Maybe you can still redeem yourself..

Last reminder before you waste more of our time: They no longer eat their traditional diet.

If the problem with the Inuit is that they are eating the same as non-Inuit Canadians, why do they live so much less?

You can't keep your act together. Earlier today you said, "They hunt for food and some still hunt whales in little boats." Now you say they eat Lucky Charms. Well, which is it? Are they hunting and eating whale or having Tim Horton's?

ahh timmy's soooooooo good. especially their peach and mango smoothie and their maple dip doughnut. not to mention their cheddar bagels and garden veg cream cheese. and oh, their iced coffee is so good. especially with four creams, four sugars, and a french vanilla shot. and oh, their regular coffee and timbits are good too. and sasuage belts.

[Sauron]

And you are clear that Eskimo's are not eating a Paleo type diet anymore? Sugar and junk foods have been in their diet for a long time now.. People who eat Lucky Charms and drink  Budweiser probably have no particular nutritional advantage over other Canadians.

 

So what's your point, exactly?

I have before me a recent Institute of Public Health report on the Inuit. Do you want to reconsider your position before I post some facts and embarrass you again?

Please do because everything you have said so far is moronic. Maybe you can still redeem yourself..

Last reminder before you waste more of our time: They no longer eat their traditional diet.

If the problem with the Inuit is that they are eating the same as non-Inuit Canadians, why do they live so much less?

You can't keep your act together. Earlier today you said, "They hunt for food and some still hunt whales in little boats." Now you say they eat Lucky Charms. Well, which is it? Are they hunting and eating whale or having Tim Horton's?

ahh timmy's soooooooo good. especially their peach and mango smoothie and their maple dip doughnut. not to mention their cheddar bagels and garden veg cream cheese. and oh, their iced coffee is so good. especially with four creams, four sugars, and a french vanilla shot. and oh, their regular coffee and timbits are good too. and sasuage belts.

I know Tim Horton's is a part of Canadian national identity for some reason, but I was not that impressed. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was fine as far as chain doughnut shops go, but I did not understand the big deal.

[biro]

I didn't go to a Tim Horton's when I was in Canada. (Sorry.) I did go to a St. Hubert's Chicken place. Still the best chicken tenders with sauce I've ever had. 

[Marc1152]

And you are clear that Eskimo's are not eating a Paleo type diet anymore? Sugar and junk foods have been in their diet for a long time now.. People who eat Lucky Charms and drink  Budweiser probably have no particular nutritional advantage over other Canadians.

 

So what's your point, exactly?

I have before me a recent Institute of Public Health report on the Inuit. Do you want to reconsider your position before I post some facts and embarrass you again?

Please do because everything you have said so far is moronic. Maybe you can still redeem yourself..

Last reminder before you waste more of our time: They no longer eat their traditional diet.

If the problem with the Inuit is that they are eating the same as non-Inuit Canadians, why do they live so much less?

You can't keep your act together. Earlier today you said, "They hunt for food and some still hunt whales in little boats." Now you say they eat Lucky Charms. Well, which is it? Are they hunting and eating whale or having Tim Horton's?

I am sorry you are confused. The Inuit Diet has included modern foods for a long time now as I understand it. They also live in a very harsh environment that is far more dangerous and has far fewer resources ( like close by hospitals) than other Canadians/Amercans. As I understand it, hunting and fishing  is still important. There are still a few communities allowed to hunt whales.  They are very poor.

Poor isolated people living in harsh environments dont live so long I would think. Did you really think they lived in the same way and ate the same diet as they did in the early 20th century? .

The important point is that when they ate Paleo they had no obesity, cancer, diabetes or heart disease. Now they do. When they switch back, they heal.  

Okay?

[Sauron]

I am sorry you are confused. The Inuit Diet has included modern foods for a long time now as I understand it. They also live in a very harsh environment that is far more dangerous and has far fewer resources ( like close by hospitals) than other Canadians/Amercans. As I understand it, hunting and fishing  is still important. There are still a few communities allowed to hunt whales.  They are very poor.

Poor isolated people living in harsh environments dont live so long I would think. Did you really think they lived in the same way and ate the same diet as they did in the early 20th century? .

The important point is that when they ate Paleo they had no obesity, cancer, diabetes or heart disease. Now they do. When they switch back, they heal.  

Okay?

You need to watch less movies. Have you ever met an Inuit? They wear Nikes and have iPods. They shop at supermarkets. Oh, I bet these Inuit tots are on their way to hunt whale in a tiny boat!



"as I understand it" is my favorite type of weasel word. It lets you talk oit your booty hole and then when you are wrong, you can just say, "well, I was just saying what I was tricked to believe. My bad."

According to you, do Inuit get most of their food from hunting or supermarkets?

[Marc1152]

I am sorry you are confused. The Inuit Diet has included modern foods for a long time now as I understand it. They also live in a very harsh environment that is far more dangerous and has far fewer resources ( like close by hospitals) than other Canadians/Amercans. As I understand it, hunting and fishing  is still important. There are still a few communities allowed to hunt whales.  They are very poor.

Poor isolated people living in harsh environments dont live so long I would think. Did you really think they lived in the same way and ate the same diet as they did in the early 20th century? .

The important point is that when they ate Paleo they had no obesity, cancer, diabetes or heart disease. Now they do. When they switch back, they heal.  

Okay?

You need to watch less movies. Have you ever met an Inuit? They wear Nikes and have iPods. They shop at supermarkets. Oh, I bet these Inuit tots are on their way to hunt whale in a tiny boat!



"as I understand it" is my favorite type of weasel word. It lets you talk oit your booty hole and then when you are wrong, you can just say, "well, I was just saying what I was tricked to believe. My bad."

According to you, do Inuit get most of their food from hunting or supermarkets?

You know..The common  Netiquette is that when you make an error like you just did and lose a debate, especially when you have been nasty and aggressive about it, is that you back off for a while.

Here, catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uR3-BMbQwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPcpB8Aa4Ho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46yjWMBCV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XP30aG8bE&feature=fvwrel

[Sauron]

You know..The common  Netiquette is that when you make an error like you just did and lose a debate, especially when you have been nasty and aggressive about it, is that you back off for a while.

Here, catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uR3-BMbQwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPcpB8Aa4Ho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46yjWMBCV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XP30aG8bE&feature=fvwrel

I never watch your YouTube videos because they are not evidence.

I, for one, find it very telling that you are always posting YouTube links as your information sources. I don't imagine that, if I were to visit your home, I would find many books.

[Marc1152]

You know..The common  Netiquette is that when you make an error like you just did and lose a debate, especially when you have been nasty and aggressive about it, is that you back off for a while.

Here, catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uR3-BMbQwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPcpB8Aa4Ho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46yjWMBCV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XP30aG8bE&feature=fvwrel

I never watch your YouTube videos because they are not evidence.

I, for one, find it very telling that you are always posting YouTube links as your information sources. I don't imagine that, if I were to visit your home, I would find many books.

Ya..Thanks again for all your input and really great insights..Thank God you're around to keep me in check. 

[Sauron]

You know..The common  Netiquette is that when you make an error like you just did and lose a debate, especially when you have been nasty and aggressive about it, is that you back off for a while.

Here, catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uR3-BMbQwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPcpB8Aa4Ho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46yjWMBCV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XP30aG8bE&feature=fvwrel

I never watch your YouTube videos because they are not evidence.

I, for one, find it very telling that you are always posting YouTube links as your information sources. I don't imagine that, if I were to visit your home, I would find many books.

Ya..Thanks again for all your input and really great insights..Thank God you're around to keep me in check. 

These are called "books". Inside them are many paper sheets called "pages", which have words printed on them.

[Marc1152]

You know..The common  Netiquette is that when you make an error like you just did and lose a debate, especially when you have been nasty and aggressive about it, is that you back off for a while.

Here, catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uR3-BMbQwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPcpB8Aa4Ho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46yjWMBCV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XP30aG8bE&feature=fvwrel

I never watch your YouTube videos because they are not evidence.

I, for one, find it very telling that you are always posting YouTube links as your information sources. I don't imagine that, if I were to visit your home, I would find many books.

Ya..Thanks again for all your input and really great insights..Thank God you're around to keep me in check.  

These are called "books". Inside them are many paper sheets called "pages", which have words printed on them.

Thanks again.

[Sauron]

You know..The common  Netiquette is that when you make an error like you just did and lose a debate, especially when you have been nasty and aggressive about it, is that you back off for a while.

Here, catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uR3-BMbQwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPcpB8Aa4Ho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46yjWMBCV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XP30aG8bE&feature=fvwrel

I never watch your YouTube videos because they are not evidence.

I, for one, find it very telling that you are always posting YouTube links as your information sources. I don't imagine that, if I were to visit your home, I would find many books.

Ya..Thanks again for all your input and really great insights..Thank God you're around to keep me in check.  

These are called "books". Inside them are many paper sheets called "pages", which have words printed on them.

Thanks again.

Eat any good books lately?

[Νεκτάριος]

To bring this discussion back to a normal discussion, Marc can you offer any evidence that a high calorie diet with mainly or mostly meat will still produce weight loss.  Also can you provide any evidence for the sustainability of increased meat production.  A youtube video from a business owner pushing his own products doesn't count. 

[Marc1152]

To bring this discussion back to a normal discussion, Marc can you offer any evidence that a high calorie diet with mainly or mostly meat will still produce weight loss.  Also can you provide any evidence for the sustainability of increased meat production.  A youtube video from a business owner pushing his own products doesn't count. 

 I have already provided several times reference to, quotes from and links to the work of Gary Taubes. I have already explained the basic theory but I will be happy to do so again. I will then give you specific suggestions about what to read so that you can see for yourself what the scientific and historical evidence is in detail.

Not all calories that you consume have the same effect on your body holding on to fat. That is  because not all types of food have the same effect on insulin. Insulin is what drives fat into your cells. That fact is well established. If you eat a diet high in food that spikes insulin you risk getting fat. There is some variance among people on this effect. Women put on fat more easily than Men for example. Teenagers still have nice new insulin receptors and can handle more insulin production than older people. But eventually with enough abuse they will ware down those receptors and begin to get over weight.

It  is particularly alarming that our diets have gotten so high in sugar and junk foods that even the very young are getting obese. Type two diabetes is showing up more and more in the very young, Over 60% of adults in the USA and also in England are overweight or obese.

Carbohydrates, especially from sugar and highly processed foods dive insulin. Insulin drives fat. The number of calories you eat is secondary to where you get those calories. The establishment theory is "A Calorie is a Calorie is a Calorie" may be false. The standard government advocated food pyramid puts you on a high carb, low fat diet. The alternative theory says that this bad advice has only helped to fuel the obesity epidemic.

Gary Taubes has written extensively on this. If you would like to examine the Scientific basis for both of these theories more closely and then decide for yourself, you should read his book; "Good Calories, Bad Calories".. This book is meant to be read by researchers and people with an interest in Science. He looks at all the experimentation that led to the establishment conclusions. He also presents in detail the Science behind the alternative theory. He gives numerous historical examples that damage the creditability of the establishment theories and support the alternative theory. This book is extensive, 500 pages long and should more than answer any questions you may have.

If you prefer something shorter that is written more with the non-scientist layman in mind then you should read his other book. "Why we get Fat."

There are also numerous lectures that he has given on-line. You could start there and determine if his arguments and evidence make sense to you and then if they do go on to read his books.

 

 

 

[Marc1152]

As far as sustainability of meat production I have provided links to Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms and also Michael Pollan author of "The Omnivores Dilemma". If you scroll back you should find them. If not I will repost.

Factory raised meat fed  grains and worse is unnatural and unsustainable. The model suggested by Joel Salaitin is highly sustainable.
 

[Νεκτάριος]

I asked for study that says a high calorie diet will lead to weight loss.  

Instead you've gone to repeating the same mantra that if you compare a high-fat atkins / paleo diet to an atrocious diet of sugary, processed foods it is better.  

As far as sustainability of meat production I have provided links to Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms and also Michael Pollan author of "The Omnivores Dilemma". If you scroll back you should find them. If not I will repost.

Factory raised meat fed  grains and worse is unnatural and unsustainable. The model suggested by Joel Salaitin is highly sustainable.

That is not proof that is sustainable on a global scale.  Again, a businessman talking about his product is not an academic source.

[Marc1152]

I asked for study that says a high calorie diet will lead to weight loss.  

Instead you've gone to repeating the same mantra that if you compare a high-fat atkins / paleo diet to an atrocious diet of sugary, processed foods it is better.  

As far as sustainability of meat production I have provided links to Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms and also Michael Pollan author of "The Omnivores Dilemma". If you scroll back you should find them. If not I will repost.

Factory raised meat fed  grains and worse is unnatural and unsustainable. The model suggested by Joel Salaitin is highly sustainable.

That is not proof that is sustainable on a global scale.  Again, a businessman talking about his product is not an academic source.

I'll go slower. Carb intake/ insulin levels are the central determinant in weight gain. Read "Good Calories, Bad Calories for the Scientific evidence.

I am sorry you are suspicious of Joel Salatin and Michel Pollan when they talk about sustainability.

These are my answers to you on both questions.

Have a nice day.

[Νεκτάριος]

I asked for study that says a high calorie diet will lead to weight loss.  

Instead you've gone to repeating the same mantra that if you compare a high-fat atkins / paleo diet to an atrocious diet of sugary, processed foods it is better.  

As far as sustainability of meat production I have provided links to Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms and also Michael Pollan author of "The Omnivores Dilemma". If you scroll back you should find them. If not I will repost.

Factory raised meat fed  grains and worse is unnatural and unsustainable. The model suggested by Joel Salaitin is highly sustainable.

That is not proof that is sustainable on a global scale.  Again, a businessman talking about his product is not an academic source.

I'll go slower. Carb intake/ insulin levels are the central determinant in weight gain. Read "Good Calories, Bad Calories for the Scientific evidence.

I am sorry you are suspicious of Joel Salatin and Michel Pollan when they talk about sustainability.

These are my answers to you on both questions.

Have a nice day.

Not quite.  You had previously made the claim that it doesn't matter how many calories you eat.  i.e that you wouldn't be unhealthy if you ate six pounds of meat every day.  Do you really believe that?

Re: sustainability: I agree with Salatin that output can be greatly increased with technology, but that still isn't a panacea.  Here is a critique of the idea of sustainable meat.  Reducing consumption is certainly part of the solution.   

[Marc1152]

I asked for study that says a high calorie diet will lead to weight loss.  

Instead you've gone to repeating the same mantra that if you compare a high-fat atkins / paleo diet to an atrocious diet of sugary, processed foods it is better.  

As far as sustainability of meat production I have provided links to Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms and also Michael Pollan author of "The Omnivores Dilemma". If you scroll back you should find them. If not I will repost.

Factory raised meat fed  grains and worse is unnatural and unsustainable. The model suggested by Joel Salaitin is highly sustainable.

That is not proof that is sustainable on a global scale.  Again, a businessman talking about his product is not an academic source.

I'll go slower. Carb intake/ insulin levels are the central determinant in weight gain. Read "Good Calories, Bad Calories for the Scientific evidence.

I am sorry you are suspicious of Joel Salatin and Michel Pollan when they talk about sustainability.

These are my answers to you on both questions.

Have a nice day.

Not quite.  You had previously made the claim that it doesn't matter how many calories you eat.  i.e that you wouldn't be unhealthy if you ate six pounds of meat every day.  Do you really believe that?

Re: sustainability: I agree with Salatin that output can be greatly increased with technology, but that still isn't a panacea.  Here is a critique of the idea of sustainable meat.  Reducing consumption is certainly part of the solution.    

Right, calories are not the operative issue in obesity.It's not how much you eat it's what you eat. How many more times would you like me to say that?

What is it about meat eating that you think is unhealthy?

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Okay fine, you dont think grass feeding is sustainable and I do. That is where i get most of my meat, from farms that grass feed. Thanks for your opinion.

[Sauron]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

[William]

So how did Orthodox Inuits fast?

[Sauron]

So how did Orthodox Inuits fast?

They don't, so they are forever lost. However, this is a small price to pay for the paleo lifestyle.

[Νεκτάριος]

Right, calories are not the operative issue in obesity.It's not how much you eat it's what you eat. How many more times would you like me to say that?

The only study you have mentioned still had people eating low calorie diets, albeit mostly meat.  So you still really haven't demonstrated anything.  Despite you dismissal of the "establishment", the opinion of most professionals in this field has been to avoid empty calories like sugar and white flour that provide little nutrition and many calories. 

What is it about meat eating that you think is unhealthy?

I think meat is part of a healthy diet.  Keep in mind a serving size should be in the neighborhood of less than 100 grams.  Plenty of healthy diets eat relatively little meat such as in the Mediterranean diet.  Even in the population Weston Price studied in Switzerland meat was eaten once a week and rye bread and dairy were the main day to day foods.  I eat meat or poultry once a week and fish (usually herring, mackerel or sardines) once to twice a week.  For me to adopt a traditional Inuit diet rather than a traditional Central European diet makes no sense to me. 

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

We've been over this many times.  If you are going to gorge, its better to do so on "real" food, including high quality meat than on processed foods.  Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.   

Okay fine, you dont think grass feeding is sustainable and I do. That is where i get most of my meat, from farms that grass feed. Thanks for your opinion.

It isn't an opinion that meat production takes an environmental toll.  Of course grass-fed is better than factory farms, nonetheless even Michael Pollan urges people to reduce consumption. 

[Marc1152]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

[Marc1152]

Right, calories are not the operative issue in obesity.It's not how much you eat it's what you eat. How many more times would you like me to say that?

The only study you have mentioned still had people eating low calorie diets, albeit mostly meat.  So you still really haven't demonstrated anything.  Despite you dismissal of the "establishment", the opinion of most professionals in this field has been to avoid empty calories like sugar and white flour that provide little nutrition and many calories. 

What is it about meat eating that you think is unhealthy?

I think meat is part of a healthy diet.  Keep in mind a serving size should be in the neighborhood of less than 100 grams.  Plenty of healthy diets eat relatively little meat such as in the Mediterranean diet.  Even in the population Weston Price studied in Switzerland meat was eaten once a week and rye bread and dairy were the main day to day foods.  I eat meat or poultry once a week and fish (usually herring, mackerel or sardines) once to twice a week.  For me to adopt a traditional Inuit diet rather than a traditional Central European diet makes no sense to me. 

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

We've been over this many times.  If you are going to gorge, its better to do so on "real" food, including high quality meat than on processed foods.  Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.   

Okay fine, you dont think grass feeding is sustainable and I do. That is where i get most of my meat, from farms that grass feed. Thanks for your opinion.

It isn't an opinion that meat production takes an environmental toll.  Of course grass-fed is better than factory farms, nonetheless even Michael Pollan urges people to reduce consumption. 

I dont have lots of time tonight so just one point:

Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.  

I bet not that's not true.

I bet the if people there are fat it is due to high carbohydrate intake.

[Sauron]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

[Sauron]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

How many whales would you say that Canadian Inuit hunt in a season?

[Νεκτάριος]

Right, calories are not the operative issue in obesity.It's not how much you eat it's what you eat. How many more times would you like me to say that?

The only study you have mentioned still had people eating low calorie diets, albeit mostly meat.  So you still really haven't demonstrated anything.  Despite you dismissal of the "establishment", the opinion of most professionals in this field has been to avoid empty calories like sugar and white flour that provide little nutrition and many calories. 

What is it about meat eating that you think is unhealthy?

I think meat is part of a healthy diet.  Keep in mind a serving size should be in the neighborhood of less than 100 grams.  Plenty of healthy diets eat relatively little meat such as in the Mediterranean diet.  Even in the population Weston Price studied in Switzerland meat was eaten once a week and rye bread and dairy were the main day to day foods.  I eat meat or poultry once a week and fish (usually herring, mackerel or sardines) once to twice a week.  For me to adopt a traditional Inuit diet rather than a traditional Central European diet makes no sense to me. 

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

We've been over this many times.  If you are going to gorge, its better to do so on "real" food, including high quality meat than on processed foods.  Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.   

Okay fine, you dont think grass feeding is sustainable and I do. That is where i get most of my meat, from farms that grass feed. Thanks for your opinion.

It isn't an opinion that meat production takes an environmental toll.  Of course grass-fed is better than factory farms, nonetheless even Michael Pollan urges people to reduce consumption. 

I dont have lots of time tonight so just one point:

Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.  

I bet not that's not true.

I bet the if people there are fat it is due to high carbohydrate intake.

Complex changes have occurred, so I wouldn't be so quick to find a simplistic answer. 

A lot fewer people do backbreaking physical labor.  It used to be that people had a handful of feasts in a year (Easter, Christmas, Pentecost, etc).  and many fasts.   Now people have the money to feast pretty much all the time - the major holidays, birthdays (if you live in a village with an extended family you are going to have at least a couple every month), a slew of Soviet holidays, a handful of new holidays - all of these are met with huge feasts.  Traditional fasting has all but disappeared.     

[Marc1152]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

So.. You don't beleive that there are some Inuit communities that still hunt whale? Okay. They do. I posted a few Youtubes showing them do that but you were too cranky to watch. You can look into it. Enjoy

[Marc1152]

Right, calories are not the operative issue in obesity.It's not how much you eat it's what you eat. How many more times would you like me to say that?

The only study you have mentioned still had people eating low calorie diets, albeit mostly meat.  So you still really haven't demonstrated anything.  Despite you dismissal of the "establishment", the opinion of most professionals in this field has been to avoid empty calories like sugar and white flour that provide little nutrition and many calories.  

What is it about meat eating that you think is unhealthy?

I think meat is part of a healthy diet.  Keep in mind a serving size should be in the neighborhood of less than 100 grams.  Plenty of healthy diets eat relatively little meat such as in the Mediterranean diet.  Even in the population Weston Price studied in Switzerland meat was eaten once a week and rye bread and dairy were the main day to day foods.  I eat meat or poultry once a week and fish (usually herring, mackerel or sardines) once to twice a week.  For me to adopt a traditional Inuit diet rather than a traditional Central European diet makes no sense to me.  

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

We've been over this many times.  If you are going to gorge, its better to do so on "real" food, including high quality meat than on processed foods.  Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.  

Okay fine, you dont think grass feeding is sustainable and I do. That is where i get most of my meat, from farms that grass feed. Thanks for your opinion.

It isn't an opinion that meat production takes an environmental toll.  Of course grass-fed is better than factory farms, nonetheless even Michael Pollan urges people to reduce consumption.  

I dont have lots of time tonight so just one point:

Nonetheless I can show you plenty of fat people who essentially eat a Weston Price diet - come visit any village in Ukraine.  You still have to restrict calories and exercise; there is no magic.  

I bet not that's not true.

I bet the if people there are fat it is due to high carbohydrate intake.

Complex changes have occurred, so I wouldn't be so quick to find a simplistic answer.  

A lot fewer people do backbreaking physical labor.  It used to be that people had a handful of feasts in a year (Easter, Christmas, Pentecost, etc).  and many fasts.   Now people have the money to feast pretty much all the time - the major holidays, birthdays (if you live in a village with an extended family you are going to have at least a couple every month), a slew of Soviet holidays, a handful of new holidays - all of these are met with huge feasts.  Traditional fasting has all but disappeared.    

I understand what you are saying. But what it comes back to are the two alternate theories. You can buy into the idea that obesity is primarily caused by "An imbalance of calories". You take in more calories than you burn. "Calories in Calories out".. That is the basis of your explanation. People are eating more and are less active, therefore they are getting fat.

The alternate theory I would like you to consider has a different definition of obesity. Rather than a "Calorie Imbalance" it is really a hormonal imbalance, too much insulin. Obesity is defined as your body holding onto too much fat.  The reason you body holds on to too much fat is because insulin causes fat accumulation. Insulin is driven to high levels by consuming carbohydrates, especially from sugar and highly processed foods because there is little to no fiber to buffer the insulin hit.  

Sixty percent of adults in this country are overweight or obese. I don't how things are in the Ukraine.

[Sauron]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

So.. You don't beleive that there are some Inuit communities that still hunt whale? Okay. They do. I posted a few Youtubes showing them do that but you were too cranky to watch. You can look into it. Enjoy

They do a lot of whale hunting, do they?

[Marc1152]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

So.. You don't beleive that there are some Inuit communities that still hunt whale? Okay. They do. I posted a few Youtubes showing them do that but you were too cranky to watch. You can look into it. Enjoy

They do a lot of whale hunting, do they?

Here you go:

http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/protectedresources/whales/bowhead/

Just google on "Eskimo whaling". You will find lots of information.

The best I can figure is they take 15 to 20 bowhead whales each year. This is known as "subsistence whaling" and is well regulated. It provides enough food for the seven or so Eskimo communities who have traditionally depended on whale meat. There are other Eskimo Whaling communites in Russia.

[Sauron]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

So.. You don't beleive that there are some Inuit communities that still hunt whale? Okay. They do. I posted a few Youtubes showing them do that but you were too cranky to watch. You can look into it. Enjoy

They do a lot of whale hunting, do they?

Here you go:

http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/protectedresources/whales/bowhead/

Just google on "Eskimo whaling". You will find lots of information.

The best I can figure is they take 15 to 20 bowhead whales each year. This is known as "subsistence whaling" and is well regulated. It provides enough food for the seven or so Eskimo communities who have traditionally depended on whale meat. There are other Eskimo Whaling communites in Russia.

Of course, like all good lawyers, I knew the answer before I asked the question. The quota for Canadian Inuit is one whale every other year in one location, and one every 13 years in another. In other words, they barely do any whaling at all.

[Marc1152]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

So.. You don't beleive that there are some Inuit communities that still hunt whale? Okay. They do. I posted a few Youtubes showing them do that but you were too cranky to watch. You can look into it. Enjoy

They do a lot of whale hunting, do they?

Here you go:

http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/protectedresources/whales/bowhead/

Just google on "Eskimo whaling". You will find lots of information.

The best I can figure is they take 15 to 20 bowhead whales each year. This is known as "subsistence whaling" and is well regulated. It provides enough food for the seven or so Eskimo communities who have traditionally depended on whale meat. There are other Eskimo Whaling communites in Russia.

Of course, like all good lawyers, I knew the answer before I asked the question. The quota for Canadian Inuit is one whale every other year in one location, and one every 13 years in another. In other words, they barely do any whaling at all.

Okay.. then you can now see that your claim that they live 10 years less than other Canadians may be contributed  to by their adoption of a Western Diet. That is the point of my posts you may remember.

They now have diabetes and obesity not to mention high rates of alcoholism... When Native peoples return to their Traditional Diets ( hunter gatherer ) they recover their good health.

Btw..In Alaska they take about 15 whales per year. I dont know how many the Russians allow the Eskimos who live there. So whaling by Eskimos is very much alive and well.

http://www.bluediamondwebs.biz/Alaska-aewc-com/default2.asp

[biro]

Is it possible the (allegedly) shortened lifespans are due to the fact that I'm guessing it's hard to get good fruits and vegetables half the year up there?

I'm just wondering. It could be part of it.

[Sauron]

Oh and the Inuits have been observed to eat a meat only diet and were free of obesity and cancer and heart disease etc. Not today  now they eat Twinkies and beer. But back when they were primarily hunters. The earlier link I proved that looks more carefully at this population and what they ate is interesting.

Just a few days ago you said they were hunting whales in tiny boats, the danger of which lowers their life expectancy. Now it's Twinkies?

I wonder why this is so very hard for you. You keep posing yourself as being intelligent and yet you cant get your brain wrapped around something so obvious and simple.

They live in a harsh environment. One of the harshest in the world. They continue to hunt and fish and even hunt whales. The western style diet is now widespread including  sugar and alcohol. Dangerous environment + Junk food and booze + Poverty and remoteness = bad

Which part of this escapes you? Its really not very complicated. A super smart well read fella like you should be able to work your way through this.

Why would they hunt whales if they have supermarkets? That's the whole point of a supermarket: so you don't have to hunt whale in a tiny boat.

So.. You don't beleive that there are some Inuit communities that still hunt whale? Okay. They do. I posted a few Youtubes showing them do that but you were too cranky to watch. You can look into it. Enjoy

They do a lot of whale hunting, do they?

Here you go:

http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/protectedresources/whales/bowhead/

Just google on "Eskimo whaling". You will find lots of information.

The best I can figure is they take 15 to 20 bowhead whales each year. This is known as "subsistence whaling" and is well regulated. It provides enough food for the seven or so Eskimo communities who have traditionally depended on whale meat. There are other Eskimo Whaling communites in Russia.

Of course, like all good lawyers, I knew the answer before I asked the question. The quota for Canadian Inuit is one whale every other year in one location, and one every 13 years in another. In other words, they barely do any whaling at all.

Okay.. then you can now see that your claim that they live 10 years less than other Canadians may be contributed  to by their adoption of a Western Diet. That is the point of my posts you may remember.

They now have diabetes and obesity not to mention high rates of alcoholism... When Native peoples return to their Traditional Diets ( hunter gatherer ) they recover their good health.

Btw..In Alaska they take about 15 whales per year. I dont know how many the Russians allow the Eskimos who live there. So whaling by Eskimos is very much alive and well.

http://www.bluediamondwebs.biz/Alaska-aewc-com/default2.asp

My line of questioning was about Canadian Inuit. Alaska is not a part of Canada. (I learned that from a book)

If the Canadian Inuit have a western diet, why don't they live as long as all other Canadians? And, if the Canadian diet is so deadly, why does Canada have one of the highest life expectancies in the world?

[Sauron]

Is it possible the (allegedly) shortened lifespans are due to the fact that I'm guessing it's hard to get good fruits and vegetables half the year up there?

I'm just wondering. It could be part of it.

They shop at the same supermarkets as the same Canadians who have one of the highest lifespans in the world. According to Marc, this is because whale hunting is so dangerous. Too bad they only take one whale ever other year.

[William]

No, seriously, how do Alaskan Natives converted by the Russians fast?

[biro]

Is it possible the (allegedly) shortened lifespans are due to the fact that I'm guessing it's hard to get good fruits and vegetables half the year up there?

I'm just wondering. It could be part of it.

They shop at the same supermarkets as the same Canadians who have one of the highest lifespans in the world. According to Marc, this is because whale hunting is so dangerous. Too bad they only take one whale ever other year.

Okay then.

[GabrieltheCelt]

Totally off subject (or is this back on subject?)... It's about diet and nutrition minus eskimo's and whales...

 I try and eat about 5 to 6 small meals a day rather than three large meals per day.  Some time back, I wrote about making smoothies with fruits and veggies (such as three mangoes and two handfuls of spinach.  Sounds disgusting but you can't taste the spinach!).  Anyway, after a year of smoothie free living, I started adding protein powder to these smoothies so that now, twice a day (three on fasting days), I get fruits, vegetables and protein in one simple smoothie.  My energy level is increasing, my skin looks great, I'm dropping LB's and my mood has vastly improved.  All you need is a decent blender and a willingness to try something new.  Bah dot bop bop bah, I'm Lovin' It.

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