Nutrition and Diet

[Marc1152]

I would like to discuss nutrition and diet and learn how people here eat.

I have a particular interest in Low Carb and Traditional Diets. I have come to believe that  the standard "Healthy" Western Diet based on low fat, avoidance of meat and fear of high cholesterol levels has ruined our health and is the real cause of obesity, heart disease and other modern ailments like diabetes. I have taken to eating a diet as recommended by the Weston Price foundation and in such books as The Paleo Diet.

Dr. Price did his work in the early 20th century. He was a Dentist who traveled the world and studied how primitive peoples ate. He discovered that people eating a Traditional Diet were far healthier than "Modern People" in terms of being cancer free, diabetes free, with good strong physical constitutions and straight teeth. He learned that even after just one generation of eating a Western type diet that the children of these people lost those health advantages.
 
You can read more at   www.westonaprice.org

"The Paleo Diet" by Dr.Loren Cordain is based on the theory that people ate a certain type of "Human Diet" for 2.5 million years. This diet mainly consits of meat, eggs, fruit, nuts and vegetables. Agriculture then introduced a mere 10,000 years ago an unnatural diet of grains, beans and potatoes which are all fairly toxic until cooked.

Here is a really cute youtube that explains the Paleo Diet:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCFZoqmKf5M

[Heorhij]

My wife and I are staunch Ukrainians as far as diet is concerned. She is a great cook, and we eat, essentially, what is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_cuisine

I never really studied, just how does this Ukrainian diet compare with other in terms of carbs, cholesterol, and calories. All I know is that I should not over-eat. In the past, I used to abuse alcohol (at one point my consumption of bourbon reached half gallon per 3 days), and I was not particularly concerned about how much I eat, actually eating a lot more than I should have (something that excessive alcohol intake, together with my wife's exceptional culinary talent, very strongly stimulated). As a result, my weight jumped to ~240 lbs. Later, however, I very strongly reduced the amount of alcohol that I drink, especially strong liquor, and, with my wife's blessing and cooperation, began to simply watch the amount of food I eat for dinner. That, without any adjustments in the diet, reduced my weight to the current ~205-210 lbs.

My cholesterol and LDL are borderline, so I, according to my doctor's advice, take courses of Lovastatin (one pill a day, the minimal dose, for 2-3 months, followed by two-three months without it).

[Schultz]

The Paleo diet sounds similar to the ideas and themes explored by Sally Fallon in Nourishing Traditions.  The wife and I started to eat a similar diet but got sidetracked once she started school and was rarely home to eat dinner with me.  I imagine once she graduates (ONE WEEK AWAY! ) we'll go back to trying it out again.  I know I felt a bit better and enjoyed cooking more.  One thing that we did learn to do and stick with is to create our own broths; one whole chicken will not only feed us for two or three times, but the broth we make from the carcass continues to feed us afterwards for a couple weeks when used in other recipes.  I've been exploring vegetable broths for fasting periods and think I've hit paydirt with a mushroom-based broth with just enough thyme in it to give it a great flavor.  I'm going to try my hand at a mushroom based shepherd's pie later this week and see how that goes.  I have high hopes for it and, if it's tasty, it will definitely become a staple for the Nativity Fast and possibly early Lenten fast if Pascha is early (and it's still cool outside at the beginning of the Fast).

One thing that I have a hard time eating is kefir, which Fallon recommends.  I'm not a fan of the tart taste, although I'm trying to break myself of that by eating La Creme yogurt, which has just a bit of cream in it to kill the tartness of the yogurt.  I figure if I can get used to the little bit of tartness that's in La Creme, I can work my way to the real thing eventually.

One can, of course, get carried away with changing one's diet and I think it's very important to keep that in mind.  I think radical diet changes should only happen when they're absolutely necessary (say, discovering one has Celiac's disease).  Much like prayer and fasting regimens, it's easy to burn out on too much of a good thing too soon.

I'm going to look more into this Paleo diet thing; it looks quite intriguing!  While I certainly think that we indulge in too many carbohydrates (and I say this as a carb hound, myself), one cannot stress how important carbs were to the development of the human brain and the creation of civilization. 

[Entscheidungsproblem]

I was raised on a Mediterranean-esque diet, so it was always a lot of polenta, a lot of beans, a lot of pasta (egg-based, potato based, etc), olive oil with everything, a lot of vinegar, meat was often part of the meal but not typically the "star", vegetables were commonplace (especially onions, garlic, and dark green ones), wine every now and then, and excessive amounts of cheese, etc. 

[Justin Kissel]

No arguing so far... off to a good start!  Well I don't want to be the guy who bursts the baloon, so I'll avoid disagreeing as well. As for me, I have a couple medical conditions that makes it necessary to watch what I eat, but frankly, I probably eat a typical American diet. I've just found that an important part of diet is size of portions--what we Americans consider a "normal" portion would be large or even extremely large to many people in the world. A portion of meat the size of a deck of cards? Not in my house!

[Marc1152]

The Paleo diet sounds similar to the ideas and themes explored by Sally Fallon in Nourishing Traditions.  The wife and I started to eat a similar diet but got sidetracked once she started school and was rarely home to eat dinner with me.  I imagine once she graduates (ONE WEEK AWAY! ) we'll go back to trying it out again.  I know I felt a bit better and enjoyed cooking more.  One thing that we did learn to do and stick with is to create our own broths; one whole chicken will not only feed us for two or three times, but the broth we make from the carcass continues to feed us afterwards for a couple weeks when used in other recipes.  I've been exploring vegetable broths for fasting periods and think I've hit paydirt with a mushroom-based broth with just enough thyme in it to give it a great flavor.  I'm going to try my hand at a mushroom based shepherd's pie later this week and see how that goes.  I have high hopes for it and, if it's tasty, it will definitely become a staple for the Nativity Fast and possibly early Lenten fast if Pascha is early (and it's still cool outside at the beginning of the Fast).

One thing that I have a hard time eating is kefir, which Fallon recommends.  I'm not a fan of the tart taste, although I'm trying to break myself of that by eating La Creme yogurt, which has just a bit of cream in it to kill the tartness of the yogurt.  I figure if I can get used to the little bit of tartness that's in La Creme, I can work my way to the real thing eventually.

One can, of course, get carried away with changing one's diet and I think it's very important to keep that in mind.  I think radical diet changes should only happen when they're absolutely necessary (say, discovering one has Celiac's disease).  Much like prayer and fasting regimens, it's easy to burn out on too much of a good thing too soon.

I'm going to look more into this Paleo diet thing; it looks quite intriguing!  While I certainly think that we indulge in too many carbohydrates (and I say this as a carb hound, myself), one cannot stress how important carbs were to the development of the human brain and the creation of civilization.  

Cool ! Sally Fallon is the President of the Weston Price Foundation. I have read her book "Eat Fat to Lose Fat"

The Weston Price idea of proper nutrition is very much different than the prevailing idea's in Western Medicine. They say not to fear saturated fat. In fact, it is the absence of saturated fat in the modern diet that is causing much of the disease and unbalance we find today. Rather, fake food that has been refined and denatured and has been raised or grown improperly is the real culprit.

They also question the current advice about keeping cholesterol low. They say that there has never been a single study linking what you eat to your cholesterol levels.. That's a shock.. And, they say that there is no evidence that high Cholesterol levels cause heart problems.

What they say is that big Pharma has invented a new disease that they say most everyone has that they can sell you pills for. It's a scam. In fact, the longest lived people in our society are older women with high cholesterol. We can also look at how Heart  Disease,Diabetes and Cancer rates have sored concurrent with this bad advice. Low Cholesterol may even be linked to getting cancer.

The Traditional Human Diet includes: Meat that is pasture fed , not confinement farmed meat fed crap. Vegetables, Fish, Fruit, fermented foods, eggs, nuts etc. What you can hunt and gather. If it does not occur in Nature, you probably should avoid it. So no refined foods ( including Dairy, Raw only).

When you eat as our ancestors did, your energy sores, your little physical complaints go away and you drop to your proper weight.

[Marc1152]

No arguing so far... off to a good start!  Well I don't want to be the guy who bursts the baloon, so I'll avoid disagreeing as well. As for me, I have a couple medical conditions that makes it necessary to watch what I eat, but frankly, I probably eat a typical American diet. I've just found that an important part of diet is size of portions--what we Americans consider a "normal" portion would be large or even extremely large to many people in the world. A portion of meat the size of a deck of cards? Not in my house!

I find that the thing that DRIVES appetite are carbs. If you eat nutrient dense foods, like pasture fed meat and skip the bread and potatoes and ice cream, you become naturally satiated without over eating. We are designed to eat lots of protein and fats, not sugar or potatoes, etc.

Eating a Traditional diet will lead you to your natural appetite, not too much not too little.. IMHO

[Schultz]

No arguing so far... off to a good start!  Well I don't want to be the guy who bursts the baloon, so I'll avoid disagreeing as well. As for me, I have a couple medical conditions that makes it necessary to watch what I eat, but frankly, I probably eat a typical American diet. I've just found that an important part of diet is size of portions--what we Americans consider a "normal" portion would be large or even extremely large to many people in the world. A portion of meat the size of a deck of cards? Not in my house!

Absolutely correct!  I've tried really hard to control my portion size once I decided that I needed to shed a few pounds and it's worked wonders.  I'm no longer hungry after dinner and therefore don't usually indulge in that 10pm sandwich I used to always eat.  Learning to eat slowly is also a factor in controlling how much you eat, a tactic I learned by going to real ritzy places (in-law's were paying; they're quite the foodies) that do the whole course thing with "tasting size" portions.  I was used to wolfing down my meal in less than 15 minutes.  I was forced to spend 15 minutes on a single small course and wait another five before the next course was brought out.  I liked the idea of it as I would leave the table full but would eat far less than at a run-of-the-mill steakhouse.  I used to be the person who prided himself on being able to eat that 32 oz steak, but now I'm happy with a 6 oz prime rib.

Just don't forget the potatoes

[Schultz]

No arguing so far... off to a good start!  Well I don't want to be the guy who bursts the baloon, so I'll avoid disagreeing as well. As for me, I have a couple medical conditions that makes it necessary to watch what I eat, but frankly, I probably eat a typical American diet. I've just found that an important part of diet is size of portions--what we Americans consider a "normal" portion would be large or even extremely large to many people in the world. A portion of meat the size of a deck of cards? Not in my house!

I find that the thing that DRIVES appetite are carbs. If you eat nutrient dense foods, like pasture fed meat and skip the bread and potatoes and ice cream, you become naturally satiated without over eating. We are designed to eat lots of protein and fats, not sugar or potatoes, etc.

Eating a Traditional diet will lead you to your natural appetite, not too much not too little.. IMHO

I've come across this myself in recent months.  If I eat protein in the morning, I tend to not be hungry for lunch until after one in the afternoon.  If I indulge in just an English muffin, I'm starving by eleven in the morning.

[EofK]

That does sound like an interesting diet.  Really, I think any diet that cuts out overly processed foods and focuses more on lean protein, vegetables, fruits, and complex carbohydrates is going to be nutritionally better for you.  I'm of the school of thought that the fewer preservatives the better, so I try to buy foods with short ingredient labels and stay away from things with added sugar, extra salt, etc.  I also like buying foods in which I know the provenance.  During the warm months, we try to buy what we can from the local farmer's market and talk with the vendors there about their produce.  We also grow a few veggies in our back yard.  

Long ago I tried the Maker's Diet and if you get past the weird manipulation of scripture to justify buying the author's products, it's basically a reduced-carb diet.  Again, it cuts out most processed, refined, and pre-cooked foods and has you depend more on vegetables and lean proteins.  There are a few quirks due to the author's Jewish heritage, so no shellfish, no pork, etc.  Otherwise, it's a decent diet plan.  Personally, I still don't eat much pork but during fasting seasons it's hard to get by without shrimp.  

[Marc1152]

No arguing so far... off to a good start!  Well I don't want to be the guy who bursts the baloon, so I'll avoid disagreeing as well. As for me, I have a couple medical conditions that makes it necessary to watch what I eat, but frankly, I probably eat a typical American diet. I've just found that an important part of diet is size of portions--what we Americans consider a "normal" portion would be large or even extremely large to many people in the world. A portion of meat the size of a deck of cards? Not in my house!

I find that the thing that DRIVES appetite are carbs. If you eat nutrient dense foods, like pasture fed meat and skip the bread and potatoes and ice cream, you become naturally satiated without over eating. We are designed to eat lots of protein and fats, not sugar or potatoes, etc.

Eating a Traditional diet will lead you to your natural appetite, not too much not too little.. IMHO

I've come across this myself in recent months.  If I eat protein in the morning, I tend to not be hungry for lunch until after one in the afternoon.  If I indulge in just an English muffin, I'm starving by eleven in the morning.

YES !!!!.. My big discovery too.. I try to eat the meat left over from dinner the night before with an egg and fruit. NO BREAD and I am full till 3:00

[Schultz]

I, of course, discovered this just before the Nativity Fast.  While I love baked beans, I'm not English enough to want them for breakfast!

[Justin Kissel]

Anyone have a good substitute for soda? I've been drinking more 2% milk, and a lot more water. And when I want something sweeter I've used O.J., but O.J. has a lot of sugar itself, which is part of what I'm trying to avoid. I don't really like most diet sodas that I've tasted, though I haven't sampled any of the new fangled ones that have come out in the last 5 years. I sometimes drink diet green tea, but I'm not wild about that either. Any suggestions?

[Heorhij]

Anyone have a good substitute for soda? I've been drinking more 2% milk, and a lot more water. And when I want something sweeter I've used O.J., but O.J. has a lot of sugar itself, which is part of what I'm trying to avoid. I don't really like most diet sodas that I've tasted, though I haven't sampled any of the new fangled ones that have come out in the last 5 years. I sometimes drink diet green tea, but I'm not wild about that either. Any suggestions?

Dry red wine?

[Schultz]

How about a little lemon juice with some agave nectar (very low glycemic index and sweeter than sugar) in water?  Just a little bit of each, mind you, to give the water a little flavor.

[simplygermain]

I eat what I want, but watch what I eat...which means, since I'm borderline Hypoglycemic (I fluctuate to normal as the seasons get colder due to less energy use) I have to stay off the Slurpees and bags of Skittles and Nerds I was accustomed to eating daily as a kid. I was raised drinking atleast 3 cans of soda per day! I KNOW!

Now, I'm a chef, cook at home, cook healthy foods with little or no cream, I use 1 tbs. sugar and Whole Milk in my 2.5 cups of coffee. I can't stand Stevia or Nutrasweet stuff. I use butter and eggs as a source of Protein/Fat to keep the blood sugar up, and eat smaller portions for dinner (one bowl of spaghetti instead of two). An 8 oz. portion of Red Meat 1-2 times per week, Poultry once a week, seafood three times a week, and atleast one vegetarian dinner. My breakfast is usually a bagel or 2 eggs (poached or scrambled) or rarely a bowl of cereal.

Lunch is lite, maybe a Sammy, or leftovers.

Being a chef, I make stocks and render fat (not bacon unless I'm making clam chowder or Coq Au Vin) on a weekly basis. I use chicken Schmultz and Duck Fat on occassion But mainly stick to good clean EVOO. And I drink about 30 oz. of juice and 30 oz. water.

I don't care for pasta that much, or potatoes but we eat them about once a week. I like rice if I'm eating a starch, but try to  just eat protein and veg for dinner more often, as starches obviously jack my blood sugar up, which, if eaten for dinner, make me feel weak, shaky and grumpy in the morning. If I feel the need to still eat after dinner, I have a bowl of icecream or popcorn.
We eat a ton of veggies in my house and I love fruit!
I love a glass of wine or a beer with dinner, so about 4 times a week.

 

[Justin Kissel]

Dry red wine?

How about a little lemon juice with some agave nectar (very low glycemic index and sweeter than sugar) in water?  Just a little bit of each, mind you, to give the water a little flavor.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will have to try them out.

[simplygermain]

Dry red wine?

How about a little lemon juice with some agave nectar (very low glycemic index and sweeter than sugar) in water?  Just a little bit of each, mind you, to give the water a little flavor.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will have to try them out.

I drink white tea w/ mangosteen - low cafeene + high antioxidants

[wynd]

"The Paleo Diet" by Dr.Loren Cordain is based on the theory that people ate a certain type of "Human Diet" for 2.5 million years. This diet mainly consits of meat, eggs, fruit, nuts and vegetables. Agriculture then introduced a mere 10,000 years ago an unnatural diet of grains, beans and potatoes which are all fairly toxic until cooked.

No grains or beans? What do you eat during the fasts? Light bulbs? 

[Fr. George]

"The Paleo Diet" by Dr.Loren Cordain is based on the theory that people ate a certain type of "Human Diet" for 2.5 million years. This diet mainly consits of meat, eggs, fruit, nuts and vegetables. Agriculture then introduced a mere 10,000 years ago an unnatural diet of grains, beans and potatoes which are all fairly toxic until cooked.

And for 2.5 million years the average person didn't know that age 70 was attainable.  The methodology would have to be re-checked with modern advances taken into account.

[Marc1152]

"The Paleo Diet" by Dr.Loren Cordain is based on the theory that people ate a certain type of "Human Diet" for 2.5 million years. This diet mainly consits of meat, eggs, fruit, nuts and vegetables. Agriculture then introduced a mere 10,000 years ago an unnatural diet of grains, beans and potatoes which are all fairly toxic until cooked.

And for 2.5 million years the average person didn't know that age 70 was attainable.  The methodology would have to be re-checked with modern advances taken into account.

Go take a look at the little youtube I posted at the top of this thread, it addresses that issue.


Minus medicine and being at risk of falling prey to large animals, no Fire Dept to call etc.  is what shortend lifespan. But all evidence seems to indicate that they were free of all the modern diseases and were generally healthier than we are today..

Have you ever wondered what people did before dentistry? Paleolithic people didn't have carries or bad teeth. They often had a perfect arch and straight teeth. But if you introduce a western diet to hunter gatherer peoples their kids have weaker constitutions and aliments like crooked teeth and miss formed arches.

Take a look at some of Dr. Price's book: "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" . Some of it is on-line

http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

[EofK]

Dry red wine?

How about a little lemon juice with some agave nectar (very low glycemic index and sweeter than sugar) in water?  Just a little bit of each, mind you, to give the water a little flavor.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will have to try them out.

We drink a lot of unsweetened iced tea with fresh lime juice.  Just enough flavor to keep it from being boring but without all the sugar.

[Marc1152]

"The Paleo Diet" by Dr.Loren Cordain is based on the theory that people ate a certain type of "Human Diet" for 2.5 million years. This diet mainly consits of meat, eggs, fruit, nuts and vegetables. Agriculture then introduced a mere 10,000 years ago an unnatural diet of grains, beans and potatoes which are all fairly toxic until cooked.

No grains or beans? What do you eat during the fasts? Light bulbs? 

Depends how hungry you get.

I am struggling with that right now of course. I'd like to find another Orthodox person who eats this way and compare notes.

The simple answer is that you still don't eat food that is not good for you. I don't want to go back to loading up on Pasta every fast and ballooning up my weight.

I am sure Paleolithic people went through periods of not much meat.

Here is what you could eat: Lots of fruit and vegetables. Cooked carrots and brussel sprouts with Honey on top is a fine breakfast. Add an apple and some juice and you are pretty set. So fruits and vegetables are the main-stay. But we can also eat shrimp and crab and squid etc. as you all know. Also, we can eat fish during the Nativity Fast  on Sat. and Sunday so all those meals can be pretty high Protein. Snack on nuts. Salad, salad and then some more salad.

But you're right, it's a problem. You may have to cheat one way or the other. A big bowl of oatmeal is still an option if you break

[John of the North]

Greek Diet Can Lengthen Life
http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/12/greek-diet-can-lengthen-life.html
by STEPHEN HULL
Mail Online

A Mediterranean diet rich in cheese, nuts and olive oil can protect against heart disease and cancer, new research shows.

A study of 22,000 Greeks showed that large amounts of the foods, combined with fresh fruit and vegetables, cut the chance of death from heart disease by 33 percent.

The risk of dying from cancer was 24 percent lower.

The diet, which varies from country to country, often includes monthly servings of meat and weekly meals of poultry, eggs and sweets.

Vegetables, fruits, nuts, legumes, olive oil, unrefined cereals, cheese and yogurt are eaten most days, as is fish.

Wine is enjoyed frequently, but in moderate amounts.

Although olive oil is widely credited with many of the diet's benefits, the research, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, did not find any one specific food in the diet was responsible for the improvement in health.

Dr Frank Hu of Brigham and Women's Hospital, in Boston, said the study showed it was more a case of combining particular nutrients or foods which somehow interact to reduce the risks of cancer and heart disease.

Daily physical activity also played a critical role in cutting death rates, the study found.

People who exercised daily for at least an hour had a 28 percent lower risk of cancer or heart disease.

[Fr. George]

I wonder how much influence the increased exposure to sunlight plays.  I'm not approaching this from a S.A.D. angle, but rather a "sunlight stimulates the body to produce certain vitamins & hormones" angle.

[Marc1152]

I wonder how much influence the increased exposure to sunlight plays.  I'm not approaching this from a S.A.D. angle, but rather a "sunlight stimulates the body to produce certain vitamins & hormones" angle.

Great point... The Weston Price folks address lack of exposure to sunlight in their materials. The big problem is vitamin D deficiency. Doctors seem to just now be testing for D and finding people are too low.

The solution is Cod Liver Oil. Not only is it rich in Vitemin D but also in Vitemin A. For some reason A and D are synergistic and work better together. They also recommend taking Cod Liver Oil with Butter Oil, again due to some sort of synergistic effect. Cod liver oil is of course a Fish Oil, so all the anti-inflamitory benefits of Fish Oil are in it too. Both can be had in pill form.


So the one supplementation to the Weston Price way of eating would be Cod Liver Oil with Butter Oil..Grandma would be proud that her old fashioned advice turned out to be good. Now.. Open Wide

[ealusaidghille]

My husband and I are learning all about beans and lentils this Advent. I can hardly believe how satisfying a bean soup with vegetables and barley can be. We make a huge pot and freeze in small servings. Lentils have plenty of protein and are used around the world in more natural diets. We add them to everything we can think of. Brown rice is also a staple for us. We use natural sweeteners such as honey, maple syrup and Stevia.

One thing people, I think, need to get over is the desire for a variety of foods in their diet. Eating plain foods, over and over again is good for us. The occasional treat or change makes food all the more interesting.

We have recently watched Food Inc and King Corn. Heaven help us all! We are now committed to buying local pasture grown meats and making a huge garden this next year.

One thing I found interesting about the movies was that we, Americans, spend less percent of our income on food than any other nation of people. This was done so we could be better consumers of other "stuff". As Christians, do we need this other stuff? Really?

Ok, sorry for starting a rant.
Happy Advent!!!

[coptic orthodox boy]

i love authentic sichuanese and korean food as well as a nice lamb kabob once in a while.
must try dishes
*authentic mapo tofu
*authentic braised lamb
*authentic kung pao chicken
*don't know what it is called in korean, but i always order this spicy tofu hot pot at the local korean restaurant...it is divine.  lot's of tofu, some shreaded beaf and pork, and an egg to top off the already delish spicy broth.  a must eat.
http://www.londonelicious.com/.a/6a00d8341cd4a653ef010535e62730970c-800wi

[ms.hoorah]

Asteriktos posted today that he is going to try to consume 150g/day of carbs....you guys should trade menus.

[Tamara]

Hi Marc,

I eat a low-carb, high protein diet too. I usually eat eggs or quinoa hot cereal along with green tea for breakfast. We use agave nectar, stevia or ripe fruit to sweeten foods and drinks. I eat almost no bread or rice. I eat sweets on special occasions. At night, we usually have some form of meat or fish, green salad made with olive oil, and lots of fresh vegetables and fruits. For snacks, we eat nuts, popcorn, fruits and vegetables. I only buy processed foods (crackers) if we are having a party. I have altered middle-eastern recipes to enhance the protein factor.

On warm days, I eat tabouli made with quinoa (a complete protein seed) instead of burgal wheat. I chop up fresh parsley, throw in whole leaves of mint and fresh cherry tomatoes, with Meyer lemon juice from my lemon tree and evo. Add a little sea salt and ground pepper and lunch is ready.

Quinoa also works as a replacement for burgal in well in a warm Syrian dish made with spinach, onion and tomato sauce.

I found Quinoa flakes and mix it together with oatmeal for breakfast.

I try and buy organic produce as often as possible. I buy our meat products from a butcher who buys grass-fed beef and free range chickens. I avoid buying olive oil, butter or meat in bulk because rancid fats are poisonous to our systems. I would say our family diet leans toward a middle-eastern/Mediterranean diet.

[Marc1152]

Hi Marc,

I eat a low-carb, high protein diet too. I usually eat eggs or quinoa hot cereal along with green tea for breakfast. We use agave nectar, stevia or ripe fruit to sweeten foods and drinks. I eat almost no bread or rice. I eat sweets on special occasions. At night, we usually have some form of meat or fish, green salad made with olive oil, and lots of fresh vegetables and fruits. For snacks, we eat nuts, popcorn, fruits and vegetables. I only buy processed foods (crackers) if we are having a party. I have altered middle-eastern recipes to enhance the protein factor.

On warm days, I eat tabouli made with quinoa (a complete protein seed) instead of burgal wheat. I chop up fresh parsley, throw in whole leaves of mint and fresh cherry tomatoes, with Meyer lemon juice from my lemon tree and evo. Add a little sea salt and ground pepper and lunch is ready.

Quinoa also works as a replacement for burgal in well in a warm Syrian dish made with spinach, onion and tomato sauce.

I found Quinoa flakes and mix it together with oatmeal for breakfast.

I try and buy organic produce as often as possible. I buy our meat products from a butcher who buys grass-fed beef and free range chickens. I avoid buying olive oil, butter or meat in bulk because rancid fats are poisonous to our systems. I would say our family diet leans toward a middle-eastern/Mediterranean diet.

That sounds healthy too. The  rule of the Paleo diet is nothing post Agriculture which started about 10,000 years ago (planting crops and growing food rather than hunting and gathering exclusively). All grains, potatoes and beans are toxic ( they have "anti-nutirents") until they are well cooked. However, even after being cooked, some toxins remain which is why many people constantly feel like they need to detox.

One interesting food that I have found is "Quorm" which is a mushroom of sorts. It is made into stuff like tofu is but without all the bad chemistry of Soy. "Burgers", "Chicken Patties" etc. It's high Protein but still not  any sort of grain.

As to rancid fats, you are absolutely correct to my way of thinking. This brings up an area that I will post more on later and that is Dairy. The only health full Dairy is NOT Pasteurized or Homogenized. Pasteurised Milk goes rancid. It has had all the digestive enzymes and other beneficial stuff boiled out of it. Natural Milk  SOURS and can still be consumed.

My step daughter drinks store bought Pasteurised Milk. Some of it went rancid the other day. It smelled terrible !! It filled the house with stink... Poison !

www.realmilk.com

[Schultz]

Hi Marc,

I eat a low-carb, high protein diet too. I usually eat eggs or quinoa hot cereal along with green tea for breakfast. We use agave nectar, stevia or ripe fruit to sweeten foods and drinks. I eat almost no bread or rice. I eat sweets on special occasions. At night, we usually have some form of meat or fish, green salad made with olive oil, and lots of fresh vegetables and fruits. For snacks, we eat nuts, popcorn, fruits and vegetables. I only buy processed foods (crackers) if we are having a party. I have altered middle-eastern recipes to enhance the protein factor.

On warm days, I eat tabouli made with quinoa (a complete protein seed) instead of burgal wheat. I chop up fresh parsley, throw in whole leaves of mint and fresh cherry tomatoes, with Meyer lemon juice from my lemon tree and evo. Add a little sea salt and ground pepper and lunch is ready.

Quinoa also works as a replacement for burgal in well in a warm Syrian dish made with spinach, onion and tomato sauce.

I found Quinoa flakes and mix it together with oatmeal for breakfast.

I try and buy organic produce as often as possible. I buy our meat products from a butcher who buys grass-fed beef and free range chickens. I avoid buying olive oil, butter or meat in bulk because rancid fats are poisonous to our systems. I would say our family diet leans toward a middle-eastern/Mediterranean diet.

That sounds healthy too. The  rule of the Paleo diet is nothing post Agriculture which started about 10,000 years ago (planting crops and growing food rather than hunting and gathering exclusively). All grains, potatoes and beans are toxic ( they have "anti-nutirents") until they are well cooked. However, even after being cooked, some toxins remain which is why many people constantly feel like they need to detox.

One interesting food that I have found is "Quorm" which is a mushroom of sorts. It is made into stuff like tofu is but without all the bad chemistry of Soy. "Burgers", "Chicken Patties" etc. It's high Protein but still not  any sort of grain.

As to rancid fats, you are absolutely correct to my way of thinking. This brings up an area that I will post more on later and that is Dairy. The only health full Dairy is NOT Pasteurized or Homogenized. Pasteurised Milk goes rancid. It has had all the digestive enzymes and other beneficial stuff boiled out of it. Natural Milk  SOURS and can still be consumed.

My step daughter drinks store bought Pasteurised Milk. Some of it went rancid the other day. It smelled terrible !! It filled the house with stink... Poison !

www.realmilk.com

I LOVE QUORN!  I discovered this about two years ago and we use it for "taycoes" (what we call fake tacos) all the time.  It actually has the consistency of ground beef and none of the disgusting taste soy crumblers always have.  The fake chicken tenders are good, too.

[Marc1152]

Hi Marc,

I eat a low-carb, high protein diet too. I usually eat eggs or quinoa hot cereal along with green tea for breakfast. We use agave nectar, stevia or ripe fruit to sweeten foods and drinks. I eat almost no bread or rice. I eat sweets on special occasions. At night, we usually have some form of meat or fish, green salad made with olive oil, and lots of fresh vegetables and fruits. For snacks, we eat nuts, popcorn, fruits and vegetables. I only buy processed foods (crackers) if we are having a party. I have altered middle-eastern recipes to enhance the protein factor.

On warm days, I eat tabouli made with quinoa (a complete protein seed) instead of burgal wheat. I chop up fresh parsley, throw in whole leaves of mint and fresh cherry tomatoes, with Meyer lemon juice from my lemon tree and evo. Add a little sea salt and ground pepper and lunch is ready.

Quinoa also works as a replacement for burgal in well in a warm Syrian dish made with spinach, onion and tomato sauce.

I found Quinoa flakes and mix it together with oatmeal for breakfast.

I try and buy organic produce as often as possible. I buy our meat products from a butcher who buys grass-fed beef and free range chickens. I avoid buying olive oil, butter or meat in bulk because rancid fats are poisonous to our systems. I would say our family diet leans toward a middle-eastern/Mediterranean diet.

That sounds healthy too. The rule of the Paleo diet is nothing post Agriculture which started about 10,000 years ago (planting crops and growing food rather than hunting and gathering exclusively). All grains, potatoes and beans are toxic ( they have "anti-nutirents") until they are well cooked. However, even after being cooked, some toxins remain which is why many people constantly feel like they need to detox.

One interesting food that I have found is "Quorm" which is a mushroom of sorts. It is made into stuff like tofu is but without all the bad chemistry of Soy. "Burgers", "Chicken Patties" etc. It's high Protein but still not  any sort of grain.

As to rancid fats, you are absolutely correct to my way of thinking. This brings up an area that I will post more on later and that is Dairy. The only health full Dairy is NOT Pasteurized or Homogenized. Pasteurised Milk goes rancid. It has had all the digestive enzymes and other beneficial stuff boiled out of it. Natural Milk  SOURS and can still be consumed.

My step daughter drinks store bought Pasteurised Milk. Some of it went rancid the other day. It smelled terrible !! It filled the house with stink... Poison !

www.realmilk.com

I LOVE QUORN!  I discovered this about two years ago and we use it for "taycoes" (what we call fake tacos) all the time.  It actually has the consistency of ground beef and none of the disgusting taste soy crumblers always have.  The fake chicken tenders are good, too.

Yes..LOVE the fake chicken... Supposedly it is better known in England than the USA.

Also I forgot to mention Coconut and especially Coconut Oil. In Sally Fallon's book "Eat Fat to Lose Fat" she is big on using Coconut Oil. It is definitely a saturated fat but the argument is that saturated fats are necessary in the human diet and the recent banning of it has been the cause of many health problems for people.

Chief among the highly digestable Saturated Fats comes from Coconuts. It is a very good meat substitute during a Fast. Fallon says to make a tea out of about one tablespoon or more of Coconut Oil mixed into hot water. You throw it back about a half hour before a meal and you become satiated quickly ( and then lose weight). You can also cook with Coconut Oil if you like the taste.. You can also drink Coconut Milk ( creamy) and Coconut Juice/Water ( not creamy). This is a very good way for a person on a Plaeo type or High Protein Diet to eat during the Fast without resorting to bread and Pasta or Beans etc. A big glass of Coconut Milk with a meal ( add sweetener if you like) is pretty darn good and filling.

Also, I have been using Coconut Oil topically for a year or two now. It works better than you would expect on sore spots  like a sore knee or back or shoulder. It also cures dry skin.

On the TV show I mentioned before "Meet the Natives on the Travel Channel had one of the Hunter Gatherer guys that they have brought from a remote South Sea Island mention how much they use Coconut Oil. They rub it all over their body and he says it keeps the skin looking healthy.. My kids rolled their eyes.... cause they know me too well..

[Schultz]

My wife and I started using coconut oil about two years ago for cooking purposes; it tastes more like butter than most things.

I'm going to have to try that coconut oil tea.  It certainly sounds delicious and I always end up eating far more than I should.  If it works for me, it may help me break that habit

I'm not a fan of coconut itself, and have therefore never tried coconut milk.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

Again, I'm fascinated that this thread hasn't degenerated into a stupid argument over nutrition.   Keep up the good work, folks!

[simplygermain]

My wife and I started using coconut oil about two years ago for cooking purposes; it tastes more like butter than most things.

I'm going to have to try that coconut oil tea.  It certainly sounds delicious and I always end up eating far more than I should.  If it works for me, it may help me break that habit

I'm not a fan of coconut itself, and have therefore never tried coconut milk.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

Again, I'm fascinated that this thread hasn't degenerated into a stupid argument over nutrition.   Keep up the good work, folks!

The book "Fat" by Jennifer McLagan (a chef and foodwriter) goes into agreement with this Sally Fallon. It's worth checking out. I would love to have it just for the references and beautiful photos.

[Marc1152]

My wife and I started using coconut oil about two years ago for cooking purposes; it tastes more like butter than most things.

I'm going to have to try that coconut oil tea.  It certainly sounds delicious and I always end up eating far more than I should.  If it works for me, it may help me break that habit

I'm not a fan of coconut itself, and have therefore never tried coconut milk.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

Again, I'm fascinated that this thread hasn't degenerated into a stupid argument over nutrition.   Keep up the good work, folks!

The book "Fat" by Jennifer McLagan (a chef and foodwriter) goes into agreement with this Sally Fallon. It's worth checking out. I would love to have it just for the references and beautiful photos.

Here is a short you tube about Saturated Fat and the Cholesterol Myth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[simplygermain]

My wife and I started using coconut oil about two years ago for cooking purposes; it tastes more like butter than most things.

I'm going to have to try that coconut oil tea.  It certainly sounds delicious and I always end up eating far more than I should.  If it works for me, it may help me break that habit

I'm not a fan of coconut itself, and have therefore never tried coconut milk.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

Again, I'm fascinated that this thread hasn't degenerated into a stupid argument over nutrition.   Keep up the good work, folks!

The book "Fat" by Jennifer McLagan (a chef and foodwriter) goes into agreement with this Sally Fallon. It's worth checking out. I would love to have it just for the references and beautiful photos.

Here is a short you tube about Saturated Fat and the Cholesterol Myth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&NR=1&feature=fvwp

ahh, if I only had a working sound card...

[Justin Kissel]

Here is a short you tube about Saturated Fat and the Cholesterol Myth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Well that was an interesting video. How do you think my doctor would react if I went in next week and said "Ya know, Doc, I was watching this video on the internet, and it said I didn't have to worry about my cholesterol"? He's the kinda guy that would probably konk me on the head Seriously, though, what would you suggest as far as more information about this, and how one would discuss such ideas with a doctor? I have high cholesterol, and was at one point on two meds for it (Simvastatin and Tricor). I'm not saying the one video changed my mind, but I admit that it would be good to follow up on it's claims.

[Schultz]

You probably have high "bad" cholesterol (of the low density kind).  Even the most hardcore fringe paleo-diet supporters accept and understand that there is such a thing.  The problem with cholesterol in the past is that we were always taught that ALL cholesterol is bad and should be avoided at all costs; the same goes for all types of fat. 

If you're unbalanced, so to speak, of course you can't just go and binge on one of these type of diets.  That's just a recipe for failure in adhering to the diet AND a health problem waiting to happen. 

[Justin Kissel]

I have a doctor appointment next Wednesday, I should actually ask for specifics about that kind of thing. I know that the doctor was concerned with my triglycerides after my last blood test (a few weeks ago), but he didn't say much beyond that (regarding cholesterol).

[Marc1152]

Here is a short you tube about Saturated Fat and the Cholesterol Myth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Well that was an interesting video. How do you think my doctor would react if I went in next week and said "Ya know, Doc, I was watching this video on the internet, and it said I didn't have to worry about my cholesterol"? He's the kinda guy that would probably konk me on the head Seriously, though, what would you suggest as far as more information about this, and how one would discuss such ideas with a doctor? I have high cholesterol, and was at one point on two meds for it (Simvastatin and Tricor). I'm not saying the one video changed my mind, but I admit that it would be good to follow up on it's claims.

I am at work so right now some of the titles of books I can refer you too have flown out of my head.

You can go to www.westonaprice.com and read some articles for now. You would be surprised how many people, Doctors included, know that the Cholesterol scare is pretty bogus. A coworker got into a discussion with me about it and mentioned that her Cardiologist told her the same thing.

I realize this is all pretty anecdotal. We have all been scared pretty good on this issue, me included. But I can tell you the general claim of the skeptics; there has never been a study linking what you eat to high cholesterol. There is also no good evidence that high cholesterol causes heart problems. None.

Ask him or her to refer you to a study. If he does, you can send it along to the Weson Price Foundation. What you will find is that AT BEST the data is very very thin . In fact the longest living people in our society are Women who have high cholesterol. Cholesterol has many protective benefits and is a natural substance. It is rather inflammation, caused by a variety of factors in our diet that may be the real cause of so much Heart disease. The very stuff we have been told helps our hearts, like low fat food may be the real culprit.

So the question you can ask is: "Show me a study" And ask why he thinks Heat Disease rates have zoomed along with the change in our diets to low fat and the elimination of saturated fats.

Also, Statins ( the $rug that is used to lower blood cholesterol that comes under many brand names) has all kinds of side effects. Got some muscle weakness? Leg Pain? Notice some increased depression? Liver problems? They have sold a cure for a nonexistent illness and have used a group of drugs that harms us.... Go figure.

[Marc1152]

You probably have high "bad" cholesterol (of the low density kind).  Even the most hardcore fringe paleo-diet supporters accept and understand that there is such a thing.  The problem with cholesterol in the past is that we were always taught that ALL cholesterol is bad and should be avoided at all costs; the same goes for all types of fat. 

If you're unbalanced, so to speak, of course you can't just go and binge on one of these type of diets.  That's just a recipe for failure in adhering to the diet AND a health problem waiting to happen. 

The author of the Plaeo Diet is not a Cholesterol skeptic. Quite the contrary, he is on the board of the American Heart Association and buys the party line about high cholesterol. You will find that the Plaeo Diet increases "Good" and lowers "Bad" cholesterol. Most other low carb high protein diets have found the same result. 

There is no evidence that eating food containing High Cholesteorl ( shrimp, red meat , etc.) increases your own blood cholesterol.

[Justin Kissel]

Thanks, Marc1152

[Schultz]

You probably have high "bad" cholesterol (of the low density kind).  Even the most hardcore fringe paleo-diet supporters accept and understand that there is such a thing.  The problem with cholesterol in the past is that we were always taught that ALL cholesterol is bad and should be avoided at all costs; the same goes for all types of fat. 

If you're unbalanced, so to speak, of course you can't just go and binge on one of these type of diets.  That's just a recipe for failure in adhering to the diet AND a health problem waiting to happen. 

The author of the Plaeo Diet is not a Cholesterol skeptic. Quite the contrary, he is on the board of the American Heart Association and buys the party line about high cholesterol. You will find that the Plaeo Diet increases "Good" and lowers "Bad" cholesterol. Most other low carb high protein diets have found the same result. 

There is no evidence that eating food containing High Cholesteorl ( shrimp, red meat , etc.) increases your own blood cholesterol.

That's what I meant.  

I do find it interesting, though, that the author of the Paleo Diet is a party-liner, so to speak.

[Marc1152]

You probably have high "bad" cholesterol (of the low density kind).  Even the most hardcore fringe paleo-diet supporters accept and understand that there is such a thing.  The problem with cholesterol in the past is that we were always taught that ALL cholesterol is bad and should be avoided at all costs; the same goes for all types of fat. 

If you're unbalanced, so to speak, of course you can't just go and binge on one of these type of diets.  That's just a recipe for failure in adhering to the diet AND a health problem waiting to happen. 

The author of the Plaeo Diet is not a Cholesterol skeptic. Quite the contrary, he is on the board of the American Heart Association and buys the party line about high cholesterol. You will find that the Plaeo Diet increases "Good" and lowers "Bad" cholesterol. Most other low carb high protein diets have found the same result. 

There is no evidence that eating food containing High Cholesterol ( shrimp, red meat , etc.) increases your own blood cholesterol.

That's what I meant.  

I do find it interesting, though, that the author of the Paleo Diet is a party-liner, so to speak.

There is a difference of opinion as to how much fat Paleolithic people ate which bares upon the cholesterol question.

You cant consume unlimited quantities of protein, you go into protein toxicity. That is why explorers who ate only rabbit for extended periods got very sick. Rabbit has no fat. They sometimes kill off prisoners in South America by feeding them only lean protein and no fat. They get sick and die. Therefore, you must eat protein with either fat or vegetables in order to metabolize it properly.

So what did hunter gatherers eat? Dr. Cordain ( author of the Plaeo Diet ) says that animals  back then were lean, so they balanced the Protein with vegetables. However, evidence from prehistoric camp sites indicate that fat was the first thing they ate and actually saved the muscle meat to make Jerky ( pemmican)  for the winter. They also preferred the organs as they have the most nutrition. If you observe other carnovors in the wild like lions, they eat the fat and organs and often leave the muscle meat for the dogs.

I think Dr. Cordain has a regular gig with the American Heart Association. I think he is trying to have this more natural type of diet accepted by the mainstream.   

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