Nutrition and Diet

[Maria]

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.  

The science is that eating too much sugar is bad for you.  How shocking and so not mainstream.  

This has nothing.  Nada.  Nichts.  Nichoho.  to do with trying to eat like a caveman.  This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.


LOL..oh okay. I wasn't aware of that.

yes Sugar is very bad. All the Paleo and low carb advocates that we have been talking about agree. Which part of this do you still not understand?

This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  



Sauron already tried to pot shot the Japanese dietary habits without good effect.

Go back and read about it. If we adopted the Japanese Diet and some cultural habits we would indeed solve much of our Obesity problems and concurrently our high Heart Disease, Cancer and Diabetes rates.

The Japanese Diet is far far far closer to the idea's of Paleo eating then what we eat in the West. In fact, when Japanese Women come to the USA their rate of Breast Cancer soars to our levels in just a generation or two.

I posted data that the Japanese consume huge quantities of wheat and sugar. Is that your idea of "far closer" to paleo eating?

Your data was incomplete. You failed to mention that consumption is less than half of the American Diet. If we cut our sugar intake in half for example, much of our obesity problem would go away.

Therefore, if you take the principle of natural eating and ask which culture is closer and which is further away, the Japanese measure up far better. This isn't even to account for the large quantity of fish and their acceptance of eating fat in their meat. All these things move them in the Paleo direction, not away from it. The closer you get, the healthier you become.. Which part of this do you still not understand?

Thanks.

By decreasing my sugar and refined carbohydrate intake, I have lost weight, and kept it off.

Actually eating cheese, whole milk yogurt, and butter have staying power.
I do not feel hungry nor have the sugar highs and lows associated with eating sugars and refined carbs, or drinking colas and fruit drinks. Oh, yeah, cake and ice cream, especially "Rocky Road," are mostly loaded with sugars and refined carbohydrates. Check the labels.

[Marc1152]

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.  

The science is that eating too much sugar is bad for you.  How shocking and so not mainstream.  

This has nothing.  Nada.  Nichts.  Nichoho.  to do with trying to eat like a caveman.  This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.


LOL..oh okay. I wasn't aware of that.

yes Sugar is very bad. All the Paleo and low carb advocates that we have been talking about agree. Which part of this do you still not understand?

This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  



Sauron already tried to pot shot the Japanese dietary habits without good effect.

Go back and read about it. If we adopted the Japanese Diet and some cultural habits we would indeed solve much of our Obesity problems and concurrently our high Heart Disease, Cancer and Diabetes rates.

The Japanese Diet is far far far closer to the idea's of Paleo eating then what we eat in the West. In fact, when Japanese Women come to the USA their rate of Breast Cancer soars to our levels in just a generation or two.

I posted data that the Japanese consume huge quantities of wheat and sugar. Is that your idea of "far closer" to paleo eating?

Your data was incomplete. You failed to mention that consumption is less than half of the American Diet. If we cut our sugar intake in half for example, much of our obesity problem would go away.

Therefore, if you take the principle of natural eating and ask which culture is closer and which is further away, the Japanese measure up far better. This isn't even to account for the large quantity of fish and their acceptance of eating fat in their meat. All these things move them in the Paleo direction, not away from it. The closer you get, the healthier you become.. Which part of this do you still not understand?

Thanks.

By decreasing my sugar and refined carbohydrate intake, I have lost weight, and kept it off.

Actually eating cheese, whole milk yogurt, and butter have staying power.
I do not feel hungry nor have the sugar highs and lows associated with eating sugars and refined carbs, or drinking colas and fruit drinks. Oh, yeah, cake and ice cream, especially "Rocky Road," are mostly loaded with sugars and refined carbohydrates. Check the labels.

Me too. I think the latest term is Low Carb High Fat diet. I dont drink milk or eat yogurt except very occasionally. No sugar, less than 20 grams of carbs per day and I take every chance to up the fat content of what I eat. Butter is the most useful for this. Lard is good too.

[Maria]

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.  

The science is that eating too much sugar is bad for you.  How shocking and so not mainstream.  

This has nothing.  Nada.  Nichts.  Nichoho.  to do with trying to eat like a caveman.  This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.


LOL..oh okay. I wasn't aware of that.

yes Sugar is very bad. All the Paleo and low carb advocates that we have been talking about agree. Which part of this do you still not understand?

This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  



Sauron already tried to pot shot the Japanese dietary habits without good effect.

Go back and read about it. If we adopted the Japanese Diet and some cultural habits we would indeed solve much of our Obesity problems and concurrently our high Heart Disease, Cancer and Diabetes rates.

The Japanese Diet is far far far closer to the idea's of Paleo eating then what we eat in the West. In fact, when Japanese Women come to the USA their rate of Breast Cancer soars to our levels in just a generation or two.

I posted data that the Japanese consume huge quantities of wheat and sugar. Is that your idea of "far closer" to paleo eating?

Your data was incomplete. You failed to mention that consumption is less than half of the American Diet. If we cut our sugar intake in half for example, much of our obesity problem would go away.

Therefore, if you take the principle of natural eating and ask which culture is closer and which is further away, the Japanese measure up far better. This isn't even to account for the large quantity of fish and their acceptance of eating fat in their meat. All these things move them in the Paleo direction, not away from it. The closer you get, the healthier you become.. Which part of this do you still not understand?

Thanks.

By decreasing my sugar and refined carbohydrate intake, I have lost weight, and kept it off.

Actually eating cheese, whole milk yogurt, and butter have staying power.
I do not feel hungry nor have the sugar highs and lows associated with eating sugars and refined carbs, or drinking colas and fruit drinks. Oh, yeah, cake and ice cream, especially "Rocky Road," are mostly loaded with sugars and refined carbohydrates. Check the labels.

Me too. I think the latest term is Low Carb High Fat diet. I dont drink milk or eat yogurt except very occasionally. No sugar, less than 20 grams of carbs per day and I take every chance to up the fat content of what I eat. Butter is the most useful for this. Lard is good too.

I just watched the online JERF (Just Eat Real Food) Summit this past weekend. Boy, they had a lot of interesting speakers.

So, I purchased some real pastured grass fed New Zealand lamb loins complete with the marrow bones.
I made some soup and my husband raved over it. It really had staying power. One small cup of soup each was enough for our meal. I added onions, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, and broccoli to the mix. It was delicious.

[JamesR]

I really miss Sprite soda

[Marc1152]

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.  

The science is that eating too much sugar is bad for you.  How shocking and so not mainstream.  

This has nothing.  Nada.  Nichts.  Nichoho.  to do with trying to eat like a caveman.  This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.


LOL..oh okay. I wasn't aware of that.

yes Sugar is very bad. All the Paleo and low carb advocates that we have been talking about agree. Which part of this do you still not understand?

This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  



Sauron already tried to pot shot the Japanese dietary habits without good effect.

Go back and read about it. If we adopted the Japanese Diet and some cultural habits we would indeed solve much of our Obesity problems and concurrently our high Heart Disease, Cancer and Diabetes rates.

The Japanese Diet is far far far closer to the idea's of Paleo eating then what we eat in the West. In fact, when Japanese Women come to the USA their rate of Breast Cancer soars to our levels in just a generation or two.

I posted data that the Japanese consume huge quantities of wheat and sugar. Is that your idea of "far closer" to paleo eating?

Your data was incomplete. You failed to mention that consumption is less than half of the American Diet. If we cut our sugar intake in half for example, much of our obesity problem would go away.

Therefore, if you take the principle of natural eating and ask which culture is closer and which is further away, the Japanese measure up far better. This isn't even to account for the large quantity of fish and their acceptance of eating fat in their meat. All these things move them in the Paleo direction, not away from it. The closer you get, the healthier you become.. Which part of this do you still not understand?

Thanks.

By decreasing my sugar and refined carbohydrate intake, I have lost weight, and kept it off.

Actually eating cheese, whole milk yogurt, and butter have staying power.
I do not feel hungry nor have the sugar highs and lows associated with eating sugars and refined carbs, or drinking colas and fruit drinks. Oh, yeah, cake and ice cream, especially "Rocky Road," are mostly loaded with sugars and refined carbohydrates. Check the labels.

Me too. I think the latest term is Low Carb High Fat diet. I dont drink milk or eat yogurt except very occasionally. No sugar, less than 20 grams of carbs per day and I take every chance to up the fat content of what I eat. Butter is the most useful for this. Lard is good too.

I just watched the online JERF (Just Eat Real Food) Summit this past weekend. Boy, they had a lot of interesting speakers.

So, I purchased some real pastured grass fed New Zealand lamb loins complete with the marrow bones.
I made some soup and my husband raved over it. It really had staying power. One small cup of soup each was enough for our meal. I added onions, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, and broccoli to the mix. It was delicious.

Have you ever tried cooking just marrow bones (usually beef)? .. I have not yet but it's "on the diet" and I see Tony Bordain  the Chef/author on the Travel Channel eating the dish fairly often and loving it.

Do you ever make bone brother? That's a Weston Price staple that I have not cozied up to yet.

I gave my dog a fresh marrow bone from the Amish Market about a year ago. He went nuts. He was very protective of it and growled if anyone  came close while he had it. It was rather unpleasant. He eventually hid the thing. I know not where

[Maria]

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.  

The science is that eating too much sugar is bad for you.  How shocking and so not mainstream.  

This has nothing.  Nada.  Nichts.  Nichoho.  to do with trying to eat like a caveman.  This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  

Well no.  The point of the paleo-diet is channelling the inner cave man.


LOL..oh okay. I wasn't aware of that.

yes Sugar is very bad. All the Paleo and low carb advocates that we have been talking about agree. Which part of this do you still not understand?

This also explains why a Japanese diet high in rice produces excellent results.  



Sauron already tried to pot shot the Japanese dietary habits without good effect.

Go back and read about it. If we adopted the Japanese Diet and some cultural habits we would indeed solve much of our Obesity problems and concurrently our high Heart Disease, Cancer and Diabetes rates.

The Japanese Diet is far far far closer to the idea's of Paleo eating then what we eat in the West. In fact, when Japanese Women come to the USA their rate of Breast Cancer soars to our levels in just a generation or two.

I posted data that the Japanese consume huge quantities of wheat and sugar. Is that your idea of "far closer" to paleo eating?

Your data was incomplete. You failed to mention that consumption is less than half of the American Diet. If we cut our sugar intake in half for example, much of our obesity problem would go away.

Therefore, if you take the principle of natural eating and ask which culture is closer and which is further away, the Japanese measure up far better. This isn't even to account for the large quantity of fish and their acceptance of eating fat in their meat. All these things move them in the Paleo direction, not away from it. The closer you get, the healthier you become.. Which part of this do you still not understand?

Thanks.

By decreasing my sugar and refined carbohydrate intake, I have lost weight, and kept it off.

Actually eating cheese, whole milk yogurt, and butter have staying power.
I do not feel hungry nor have the sugar highs and lows associated with eating sugars and refined carbs, or drinking colas and fruit drinks. Oh, yeah, cake and ice cream, especially "Rocky Road," are mostly loaded with sugars and refined carbohydrates. Check the labels.

Me too. I think the latest term is Low Carb High Fat diet. I dont drink milk or eat yogurt except very occasionally. No sugar, less than 20 grams of carbs per day and I take every chance to up the fat content of what I eat. Butter is the most useful for this. Lard is good too.

I just watched the online JERF (Just Eat Real Food) Summit this past weekend. Boy, they had a lot of interesting speakers.

So, I purchased some real pastured grass fed New Zealand lamb loins complete with the marrow bones.
I made some soup and my husband raved over it. It really had staying power. One small cup of soup each was enough for our meal. I added onions, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, and broccoli to the mix. It was delicious.

Have you ever tried cooking just marrow bones (usually beef)? .. I have not yet but it's "on the diet" and I see Tony Bordain  the Chef/author on the Travel Channel eating the dish fairly often and loving it.

Do you ever make bone brother? That's a Weston Price staple that I have not cozied up to yet.

I gave my dog a fresh marrow bone from the Amish Market about a year ago. He went nuts. He was very protective of it and growled if anyone  came close while he had it. It was rather unpleasant. He eventually hid the thing. I know not where

My mom used to make broth soup for us whenever we were sick. We would recover quite rapidly.

Yes, I have made bone broth. Actually, it is quite good. I have used the bones from pastured beef, pastured lamb, or free-range chickens. Usually I use the broth as the base for a meat-veggie soup so that it becomes more like a stew. My husband loves a hearty country soup or stew with meat, potatoes, and a few veggies like carrots, onions, and broccoli.

Every time I purchase a crock pot, even the most expensive kind, it dies on me just after one year, and so the warranty is void. I do not like how they are constructed as they could be fire hazards with that band of metal inside used to warm the pot. Those ribbons of metal can catch on fire. I have seen that happen before with toaster ovens and toasters.

Oh, and I know how possessive dogs can be with a pastured marrow bone.
Wild dogs will often grab the bones from a big cat (lions and tiger) kill. The lions will go after the intestines and organ meat immediately leaving the bones for the dogs.

When we had a cat, he would growl and protect the organ meats we offered from free-ranged chickens. He especially loved livers.

[Maria]

I've been told that it is not a good idea to feed dogs fresh uncooked red meat and that they can turn vicious after tasting blood.

One of my in-laws had to put their dog to sleep because it charged and then bit someone. They had been giving it fresh marrow bones, and had noticed that it had become increasingly protective of its food and would growl.

[Marc1152]

Well, he is a Chihuahau. Minimum damage potential.

[Schultz]

This just in:

Paleolithic diets have become all the rage, but they are getting our ancestral diet all wrong.

Right now, one half of all Americans are on a diet. The other half just gave up on their diets and are on a binge. Collectively, we are overweight, sick and struggling. Our modern choices about what and how much to eat have gone terribly wrong. The time has come to return to a more sensible way of eating and living, but which way? An entire class of self-help books recommends a return to the diets of our ancestors. Paleolithic diets, caveman diets, primal diets and the like, urge us to eat like the ancients. Taken too literally, such diets are ridiculous. After all, sometimes our ancestors starved to death and the starving to death diet, well, it ends badly. Yet, the idea that we might take our ancestral diet into consideration when evaluating the foods on which our organs, cells and existence thrive, makes sense. But what did our ancestors eat?

source: Huffington Post

[Adela]

I've been told that it is not a good idea to feed dogs fresh uncooked red meat and that they can turn vicious after tasting blood.

One of my in-laws had to put their dog to sleep because it charged and then bit someone. They had been giving it fresh marrow bones, and had noticed that it had become increasingly protective of its food and would growl.

I would cook marrow bones for my dog and she loved them.  As far as food aggression, the best thing is to start training them when they are very young pups to be ok with you handling their food.  For example, when she was a young pup I would put my hand into her food bowl and handle her dry food as she was eating.  Or, if she had a food treat or a bone I would make a game out of taking it from her and then giving it right back.  She figured out that if I took her bone or treat, she was going to get it back so there was no cause to get upset.  I had to do this after I left her with my Mom and she got into the garbage and took out a steak bone. My Mom tried to catch her and my dog (about 3-4 months old) actually growled at my Mom!  But after working with her the growling never happened again.  Though, every now and then she didn't want to give up something, like the time we were walking and she found a pork chop bone on the side walk.  She was a full-size Great Pyrenees and I had to really struggle with her to get her jaws unclenched and open so I could get that pork chop bone out of her mouth.

[Maria]

I've been told that it is not a good idea to feed dogs fresh uncooked red meat and that they can turn vicious after tasting blood.

One of my in-laws had to put their dog to sleep because it charged and then bit someone. They had been giving it fresh marrow bones, and had noticed that it had become increasingly protective of its food and would growl.

I would cook marrow bones for my dog and she loved them.  As far as food aggression, the best thing is to start training them when they are very young pups to be ok with you handling their food.  For example, when she was a young pup I would put my hand into her food bowl and handle her dry food as she was eating.  Or, if she had a food treat or a bone I would make a game out of taking it from her and then giving it right back.  She figured out that if I took her bone or treat, she was going to get it back so there was no cause to get upset.  I had to do this after I left her with my Mom and she got into the garbage and took out a steak bone. My Mom tried to catch her and my dog (about 3-4 months old) actually growled at my Mom!  But after working with her the growling never happened again.  Though, every now and then she didn't want to give up something, like the time we were walking and she found a pork chop bone on the side walk.  She was a full-size Great Pyrenees and I had to really struggle with her to get her jaws unclenched and open so I could get that pork chop bone out of her mouth.

Yikes. Some criminals lace pork chop and other bones with poison in a deliberate attempt to kill animals. Several dogs were killed in our neighborhood that way. Since we have coyotes who have killed several of the neighborhood small dogs and cats, and since Animal Control no longer traps these coyotes, I wonder if some stupid took matters into his own hands and tried to poison the coyotes.

[stanley123]

This just in:

Paleolithic diets have become all the rage, but they are getting our ancestral diet all wrong.

Right now, one half of all Americans are on a diet. The other half just gave up on their diets and are on a binge. Collectively, we are overweight, sick and struggling. Our modern choices about what and how much to eat have gone terribly wrong. The time has come to return to a more sensible way of eating and living, but which way? An entire class of self-help books recommends a return to the diets of our ancestors. Paleolithic diets, caveman diets, primal diets and the like, urge us to eat like the ancients. Taken too literally, such diets are ridiculous. After all, sometimes our ancestors starved to death and the starving to death diet, well, it ends badly. Yet, the idea that we might take our ancestral diet into consideration when evaluating the foods on which our organs, cells and existence thrive, makes sense. But what did our ancestors eat?

source: Huffington Post

I don't know anything about the caveman diet, but I suspect that a diet which emphasizes vegetables, fruits and fish and restricts refined sugar, high fructose corn syrup, candies, cakes, processed meats, would be better. Cavemen did not have access to these overly refined and processed foods, did they?

[Maria]

Did anyone listen to the Just Eat Raw Food (JERF) online seminar the week before last? It was a nine day conference and had some great information.

There was the SCD talk by two engineers who have come up with plans to help people with allergies and digestive upsets.

A few of the presenters appeared to be rather pedantic and know-it-all. They appear not to realize that every body is different ... different genes in our DNA that predispose us to certain problems (thanks to the Fall).

[Marc1152]

This just in:

Paleolithic diets have become all the rage, but they are getting our ancestral diet all wrong.

Right now, one half of all Americans are on a diet. The other half just gave up on their diets and are on a binge. Collectively, we are overweight, sick and struggling. Our modern choices about what and how much to eat have gone terribly wrong. The time has come to return to a more sensible way of eating and living, but which way? An entire class of self-help books recommends a return to the diets of our ancestors. Paleolithic diets, caveman diets, primal diets and the like, urge us to eat like the ancients. Taken too literally, such diets are ridiculous. After all, sometimes our ancestors starved to death and the starving to death diet, well, it ends badly. Yet, the idea that we might take our ancestral diet into consideration when evaluating the foods on which our organs, cells and existence thrive, makes sense. But what did our ancestors eat?

source: Huffington Post

That seems right to me by in large. Taking an evolutionary view of diet is very useful. here is a really short and cute video that makes the point better than I can. Please watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

[Ignatius II]

Marc1152-

I am late on this particular thread so perhaps I have missed some key information you have provided. I have tried to read as many responses as possible but it is pretty voluminous. You seem to consume a lot of meat and saturated fat and I do understand the differences in meat between wild game and domestic, grain-fed vs. grass-fed etc.  Since some individuals who are susceptible to gout due to increased levels of purines or high uric acid levels may have a difficult time with this diet.

If it is not too invasive of you  I have a couple of questions Ii would like to ask as a measure of how well your diet might be working for you. This would at least give me a reference point:

What is your age?
How long have you been using the paleo diet?
Have you recently had your cholesterol and triglyceride levels checked?  If so, what is your most recent total cholesterol level? Your HDL/LDL ratio and total triglycerides? Have there been any rise or fall in your BUN and creatinine levels that might reflect liver and kidney health?
What sort of exercise program do you follow?


Thanks

[Marc1152]

Marc1152-

I am late on this particular thread so perhaps I have missed some key information you have provided. I have tried to read as many responses as possible but it is pretty voluminous. You seem to consume a lot of meat and saturated fat and I do understand the differences in meat between wild game and domestic, grain-fed vs. grass-fed etc.  Since some individuals who are susceptible to gout due to increased levels of purines or high uric acid levels may have a difficult time with this diet.

If it is not too invasive of you  I have a couple of questions Ii would like to ask as a measure of how well your diet might be working for you. This would at least give me a reference point:

What is your age?
How long have you been using the paleo diet?
Have you recently had your cholesterol and triglyceride levels checked?  If so, what is your most recent total cholesterol level? Your HDL/LDL ratio and total triglycerides? Have there been any rise or fall in your BUN and creatinine levels that might reflect liver and kidney health?
What sort of exercise program do you follow?


Thanks

What is your age?

59.8

How long have you been using the paleo diet?

I would describe my eating as Low Carb High Fat (LCHF). The Plaeo Diet is naturally a low Carb type Diet but they had an overly politically correct view of fat until recently. They said to eat "Lean Meat" which is an error both in terms of what Paleolithic people ate and in therms of optimal health. They have happily reversed course on this point.

So I was eating in line with Weston Price, which meant I used Raw Dairy and ate local grass fed meats etc etc.. I would also cheat, especially during the fasts. But I did not count carbs properly or understand how much fat is really needed to stay healthy and lose weight.

I am now on a strict LCHF Diet. I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming. There is a good book "Eat Fat to Lose Fat" by Sally Fallon and Dr. Mary Enig (Weston Price Leaders) that I read years ago that really didnt penetrate my thinking.  But today the book "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes and many associated LCHF lectures online have straightened me out.

Here is where I am at personally. You need lots of fat in your diet. You must add fat in order to stay satiated and to get your body to adjust to a fat burning metabolism. That adjustment takes about six weeks. Butter, Cream, Lard and coconut oil are my best friends.

That is also in line with the Atkins Diet except that they would allow you to add back in more carbs after your adjustment ( the "Induction Phase").   Taubes is critical of that and I agree. Here is the prime point.

Carbs are addicting especially grains ( not to even mention sugar).
You can not eat them...ever. They tickle your pleasure center in the same manner as many drugs. You in fact form an addiction and when you withdraw them from you diet you actually display the symptoms of addiction withdrawal.

I would cheat here an there and then YoYo. A small bite of this or that or the occasional full spaghetti dinner breakdown. I was setting myself up for failure like an alcoholic who drinks only on Saturday night.  

I am doing far better now. My tummy is flattening nicely. I have adjusted to a fat burning metabolism. The trick is to keep your insulin levels very steady, which I am doing. My energy is much much better and I am never hungry. If I do feel low from taking in very few carbs, I can feel it and my antidote is a banana. I get all my carbs from vegetables and occasional berries with heavy cream.

Even my sinuses have cleared. I was always stuffy. I snored. I can now breath out of both nostrils easily. I think the mucus  was an allergic
reaction to the grains, even though they were occasional only.

Have you recently had your cholesterol and triglyceride levels checked?  If so, what is your most recent total cholesterol level? Your HDL/LDL ratio and total triglycerides?

This may be another whole discussion. There is no causal relationship between having high Cholesterol and your health. None. Inflammation is the culprit. LCHF diets are very low inflammatory diets. Your body makes cholesterol to patch the inflammation. Your body needs cholesterol. Your levels will rise and fall depending on the season, your stress levels. So I think it is better to treat the causes, inflammation and not worry about the effect, Cholesterol coming to the scene like firemen to a fire. I supplement with Fish Oil

Consider this. Many people with high cholesterol don't have heart attacks. In fact Elderly Women with very high cholesterol have the longest life spans. Many people with very low cholesterol do have heart attacks. There is obviously  something wrong with the lipid theory.
We can talk more about this later if you want. Here is youtube with Gary Taubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6anV4z5Oi-k    

 Have there been any rise or fall in your BUN and creatinine levels that might reflect liver and kidney health?

I dont know. Statin drugs are a far bigger threat to liver health and I refuse to take them. High Insulin levels and being overweight is a big threat to you liver ( fatty liver), I control both.

What sort of exercise program do you follow?

I walk my dogs twice per day. And i stand hour after hour after hour in Church

So here is something to think about. Humans have been eating low carb high fat diets for almost the entirety of our existence. Why then would our natural human diet be bad for us? Why would newer foods, never before in the human diet be the key to good health?

Finally, here is a fun fact. When was the first recorded heart attack in the United States?

Answer:

1921

[orthonorm]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

This is truth.

Low carbers fail always because they don't understand their approach should be labeled high fat.

I can't sign off on your reasons or the specifics, but again this is old knowledges to anyone who has done any sorta of bodybuilding.

High fat. Near to no carb. Moderate protein. Shreds.

And can as I have seen "cure" type 2 diabetes.

[Maria]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

This is truth.

Low carbers fail always because they don't understand their approach should be labeled high fat.

I can't sign off on your reasons or the specifics, but again this is old knowledges to anyone who has done any sorta of bodybuilding.

High fat. Near to no carb. Moderate protein. Shreds.

And can as I have seen "cure" type 2 diabetes.

What do you mean by "Shreds"

My sister has type 2 diabetes and is feeling much better on a high fat (lots of grass fed cow butter), mod. protein, very low carb diet with no sugars and no wheat (gluten free diet). She can fast on Green Tea for one to three days without any adverse effects.

She told me that when her blood sugar is greater than 90, she feels great,
but whenever her blood sugar drops to 90 or below, she feels like she is going to die.
When she was placed on insulin (she started insulin due to gestational diabetes), she felt terrible and her blood sugar remained out of control. It was only when she began the high fat diet and stopped taking insulin that she noticed improvement.

Interestingly, she told me that DIABETES has saved her life because she had to learn to think outside the AMA box. She learned about the high fat diet through correspondence with a British researcher.

[Shiny]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

Yes you do need fat and carbs, it's about choosing the right ones though. Unsaturated fats are better than saturated. I like to go for the monounsaturated fats which you'll see in popcorn, olives and nuts. Olive oil is great but grapeseed oil may be even better.

[Justin Kissel]

Interestingly, she told me that DIABETES has saved her life because she had to learn to think outside the AMA box. She learned about the high fat diet through correspondence with a British researcher.

It was a "diabetes educator" (nutritionist) at the local hospital who told me to go on a high fat/low carb diet. It was so low carb there was no way I could possibly stick on it though, not at this point anyway.

[Shiny]

Low carb is dumb

[stanley123]

Low carb is dumb

I'm confused about this thread.
Is low carb good or bad?

[Justin Kissel]

Low carb is dumb

If you have diabetes like I do it's smart. Though difficult IMO. 

[Maria]

Low carb is dumb

If you have diabetes like I do it's smart. Though difficult IMO. 

I have hypoglycemia, and a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet seems to work for me.
Otherwise, I wake up in the middle of the night or early in the morning sweating like a pig and feeling nauseated and dizzy as my blood sugar drops to 43 or even 35. I have fainted because of reactive hypoglycemia due to eating sugars and/or refined carbs. In fact, every time I took the five hour glucose test where they gave you a pop bottle of sugar, I fainted after my blood sugar dropped precariously low.

[Maria]

I think we need to clarify some terms:

Fats = RAW grass-fed cow butter and cheese; raw is preferred to pasteurization. Raw whole milk, raw whole butter, and raw whole cheeses, especially those produced in the Spring and Summer, have a lot of Vitamin A, D3, and other nutrients.

Fats should not be cooked as in macaroni and cheese or cheese pizza. Those refined/processed carbs (wheaten products) must be ruled out. Same with butter-coated popcorn. Cooking in butter degrades it.

When I cook meat in a soup, I do not sear it. I just pop the chopped meat and its fat in the pan with water and onions, slow cook it, and then add some veggies and herbs to make a chunky soup. If I have broth from marrow bones, I also add that for flavor. The soup is very savory as the meat does not have to be caramelized by searing it.

[Shiny]

edit nvm

[Shiny]

I have hypoglycemia, and a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet seems to work for me.

Well yeah those low carb diets work because you stopped making poor carb choices. It's easy to see why Atkins or South Beach diet work for people because they stop eating junk...

[Shiny]

PS Marc, about table sugar. Our body processes sugar all the same regardless of the source.

[orthonorm]

Low carb is dumb

If you have diabetes like I do it's smart. Though difficult IMO. 

You really should try a high fat diet. I've seen it work wonders. And it is "easier" than low carb. FWIW, it has been shown that large amount of even artificial sweeteners can cause some folks to have insulin fluctuations. Something you might want to consider.

And I am not backing that statement up. Google around.

Grain of sugar and all that.

[orthonorm]

Low carb is dumb

I'm confused about this thread.
Is low carb good or bad?

It's neither. It is a tool for some to achieve certain results. It is not how paleo people ate. It is not for everyone.

It is a tool for the privileged for various things, like display their privilege and feel part of something anti-consumerist while consuming.

[orthonorm]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

This is truth.

Low carbers fail always because they don't understand their approach should be labeled high fat.

I can't sign off on your reasons or the specifics, but again this is old knowledges to anyone who has done any sorta of bodybuilding.

High fat. Near to no carb. Moderate protein. Shreds.

And can as I have seen "cure" type 2 diabetes.

What do you mean by "Shreds"

Increase your proportion of lean body mass. "Lose fat and water weight." But I am talking of upwards of 80% of your calories coming from fat.

Meat and eggs ain't going to get you there.

Olive oil, butter, tallow, lard, ghee, coconut oil, etc. are your friends.

You achieve ketosis and cycle in and out of ketosis depending on your training purposes.

[Shiny]

I go more for the monounsatured fats if I can. Grapeseed oil I value just a tad higher above olive oil, but still the latter is great. I use Extra Virgin Olive Oil to make salad dressings.

[orthonorm]

I go more for the monounsatured fats if I can. Grapeseed oil I value just a tad higher above olive oil, but still the latter is great. I use Extra Virgin Olive Oil to make salad dressings.

You might want to reconsider the grapeseed stuff due the fragile FAs it is comprised of and how the oil is extracted.

An oil that is primarily PUFAs or MUFAs should only be taken if able to extracted in a rather primitive manner.

[Marc1152]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

This is truth.

Low carbers fail always because they don't understand their approach should be labeled high fat.

I can't sign off on your reasons or the specifics, but again this is old knowledges to anyone who has done any sorta of bodybuilding.

High fat. Near to no carb. Moderate protein. Shreds.

And can as I have seen "cure" type 2 diabetes.

Well now..We are finally on the same page... May the Earth not open up and swallow both of us.

Here is an interview with Dr. Mary Vernon, a physician who treats diabetes with LCHF diet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ

[Marc1152]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

This is truth.

Low carbers fail always because they don't understand their approach should be labeled high fat.

I can't sign off on your reasons or the specifics, but again this is old knowledges to anyone who has done any sorta of bodybuilding.

High fat. Near to no carb. Moderate protein. Shreds.

And can as I have seen "cure" type 2 diabetes.

What do you mean by "Shreds"

Increase your proportion of lean body mass. "Lose fat and water weight." But I am talking of upwards of 80% of your calories coming from fat.

Meat and eggs ain't going to get you there.

Olive oil, butter, tallow, lard, ghee, coconut oil, etc. are your friends.

You achieve ketosis and cycle in and out of ketosis depending on your training purposes.

Okay..Now I'm scared..

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God have mercy on us. Amen

[Shiny]

But aren't diets rich in MUFAs better off than a high carb diet?

It's interesting how beneficial grapeseed oil is for HDL, a big increase while also just the same decrease for LDL cholestrol. But you still can maintain the same weight.

I like that it has a very high smoking point when I cook.

But I don't use grapeseed oil that much in my own diet.

[orthonorm]

I have a better understanding that you need far more fat in your diet than what I had been consuming.

This is truth.

Low carbers fail always because they don't understand their approach should be labeled high fat.

I can't sign off on your reasons or the specifics, but again this is old knowledges to anyone who has done any sorta of bodybuilding.

High fat. Near to no carb. Moderate protein. Shreds.

And can as I have seen "cure" type 2 diabetes.

What do you mean by "Shreds"

Increase your proportion of lean body mass. "Lose fat and water weight." But I am talking of upwards of 80% of your calories coming from fat.

Meat and eggs ain't going to get you there.

Olive oil, butter, tallow, lard, ghee, coconut oil, etc. are your friends.

You achieve ketosis and cycle in and out of ketosis depending on your training purposes.

Okay..Now I'm scared..

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God have mercy on us. Amen

Mark I have mentioned this before.

Although you have some years on me, I've been aware of such stuff for over 20 years and using on and off since then. My brother being a sometimes competitive power lifter and body builder and my competing in athletics where bodyweight mattered.

Most of my understanding of all this happened when I decided I wanted to gain about 80 pounds. Went to the fundamentals of what folks were doing before the advent of steroids.

And I have mentioned a few times my mentor who was a runner who basically got  serious type 2 diabetes overnight. He followed everyone's advice and continued to have problems with ED, peripheral neuropathy, etc.

Then he read Atkins just before it became popular again and went a year in full blown ketosis. At the end of that year:

ED gone.
Neuropathy gone.
"Arthritis" gone.
Diabetes gone.

This was against the advice of his physician.

He later changed some of his food choices as the Atkins plan is not the best and he is aware that a more sophisticated understanding of lipidology has shown one should be careful about in light the real particle distribution of various lipids especially given one's particular APO expression.

He's around 100 gr of carbohydrates a day more than a decade later and doing quite well.

[orthonorm]

But aren't diets rich in MUFAs better off than a high carb diet?

It's interesting how beneficial grapeseed oil is for HDL, a big increase while also just the same decrease for LDL cholestrol. But you still can maintain the same weight.

I like that it has a very high smoking point when I cook.

But I don't use grapeseed oil that much in my own diet.

Cooking is one thing . . . Coconut oil and lard and tallow also have high smoke points.

The HDL and LDL stuff you usually get don't amount an accurate reading of what your lipids really looks like. Lagging in energy and don't want to get into how this data is typically generated. Superko is a good place to start for the lay person in understanding the advances in lipidology and other factors correlative in early heart disease. This is just off the top of my head.

Here is the thing Achronos, if you don't have people dying of heart disease in your family before 50 like flies, don't sweat the minutiae.

Gotta get outta here.

Chat at you later or what have you.

[Shiny]

Yeah my family has a long history of heart disease, not sure what age that starts.

I've been having some liver problems, I think, or so what's been showing up by my blood work. May need to pop pills, I don't know.

I just need to work out lol.

[Ignatius II]

Marc-

Thank you for posting a response to my earlier questions and sharing your information.  I too am 59, so that gives me a better idea physiologically where you are coming from. I have tried a diet pretty much like you are propose but it made me feel sluggish, possibly from the ketosis effect of utilizing very few carbs and using fat as a fuel source.  A heavy meat diet has never seemed to suit me well. I use to consume much more meat in my younger days.  I have for a number of years utilized a diet of approximately 40% protein, 30-40% carbs and about 20-30% fats (most of this with very little saturated fat).  Simple carbs can cause an elevation of insulin levels which can then cause an imbalance in other hormonal levels and as well as promote fat storage.  However, complex carbohydrates which break down much slower are actually beneficial when used as a steady state energy source and assisting in protein assimilation. Proteins should be consumed with carbohydrates.   Most of my carbs come mainly from vegetables and some fruit.  I do usually consume a bowl of old fashion oats at breakfast.  My fat levels are mainly met with the addition of olive oil and some from the lean chicken or fish I eat.  I consume red meat only once about every 2 or 3 weeks and it is always lean. Chicken never has the skin on it and is never fired.  I seldom eat meat at all on Wednesdays and Fridays.  I consume a fair amount of fish usually in the form of salmon or sardines. I also take fish oil.

Triglyerides are a better a  measurement of the state of your arterial condition than total cholesterol levels.  Triglycerides can cause damage to the arterial wall and cause rough or inflamed edges which allow for the accumulation of plaque which can eventually block an artery.  Cholesterol ratios of LDL to HDL are important. As you know LDL is required of course, but in access are considered the "bad" cholesterol and HDL the "good" cholesterol. Ratios are generally considered best of they are under 4:1. On my present diet it is always 2.5:1 or less and sometimes under 2:1. This has been the most successful eating regiment for me. I have always had a heavy exercise regimen and my bodyfat levels have stayed at about 10-14%. Heavy red meat consumption by some individuals may be detrimental as it raises purine levels and uric acid which may aggravate arthritis and gout conditions. i am glad you found a diet that works well for you.

[Marc1152]

Marc-

Thank you for posting a response to my earlier questions and sharing your information.  I too am 59, so that gives me a better idea physiologically where you are coming from. I have tried a diet pretty much like you are propose but it made me feel sluggish, possibly from the ketosis effect of utilizing very few carbs and using fat as a fuel source.  A heavy meat diet has never seemed to suit me well. I use to consume much more meat in my younger days.  I have for a number of years utilized a diet of approximately 40% protein, 30-40% carbs and about 20-30% fats (most of this with very little saturated fat).  Simple carbs can cause an elevation of insulin levels which can then cause an imbalance in other hormonal levels and as well as promote fat storage.  However, complex carbohydrates which break down much slower are actually beneficial when used as a steady state energy source and assisting in protein assimilation. Proteins should be consumed with carbohydrates.   Most of my carbs come mainly from vegetables and some fruit.  I do usually consume a bowl of old fashion oats at breakfast.  My fat levels are mainly met with the addition of olive oil and some from the lean chicken or fish I eat.  I consume red meat only once about every 2 or 3 weeks and it is always lean. Chicken never has the skin on it and is never fired.  I seldom eat meat at all on Wednesdays and Fridays.  I consume a fair amount of fish usually in the form of salmon or sardines. I also take fish oil.

Triglyerides are a better a  measurement of the state of your arterial condition than total cholesterol levels.  Triglycerides can cause damage to the arterial wall and cause rough or inflamed edges which allow for the accumulation of plaque which can eventually block an artery.  Cholesterol ratios of LDL to HDL are important. As you know LDL is required of course, but in access are considered the "bad" cholesterol and HDL the "good" cholesterol. Ratios are generally considered best of they are under 4:1. On my present diet it is always 2.5:1 or less and sometimes under 2:1. This has been the most successful eating regiment for me. I have always had a heavy exercise regimen and my bodyfat levels have stayed at about 10-14%. Heavy red meat consumption by some individuals may be detrimental as it raises purine levels and uric acid which may aggravate arthritis and gout conditions. i am glad you found a diet that works well for you.

I will write more later but on the subject of gout a low carb diet may in fact help improve the disease not cause it. It is more likely that Fructose is the culprit behind so much gout in the population.

Here is a short video about low carb diets and gout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9He7Yjl85NU

[Marc1152]

Here's a good one. Gary Taubes on Cholesterol and Science Practices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCBMV6d9HSg&feature=r-vrec

And on Sugar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwcgzOcGW3A&feature=related

[orthonorm]

marc why haven't you ever mentioned Jan Kwasniewski, at least to my knowledge?

[Marc1152]

marc why haven't you ever mentioned Jan Kwasniewski, at least to my knowledge?

Not heard of him before this. I just read a little bit about him on-line. Sounds goods at first read, low carb, high fat, can cure diabetes etc.

Thanks

[celticfan1888]

What does Cristiano Ronaldo eat?

http://www.ronaldo7.net/faq/what-does-cristiano-ronaldo-eat.html

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