OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 16, 2014, 01:45:43 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Nutrition and Diet  (Read 59091 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #585 on: May 23, 2012, 09:11:18 PM »

Here is a good you tube with Michael Pollan talking about the documentary "Food Inc." which he helped to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmF_erEv1o&feature=fvsr

And in case you didnt make it to pt. 4 of Joe Salitin of Polyface farm he addresses the environmental efficiency of grass fed meat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSIFRlloCGA&feature=endscreen&NR=1
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:26:18 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #586 on: May 23, 2012, 10:22:06 PM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #587 on: May 23, 2012, 10:42:26 PM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.

The Mayo clinic doesnt have a web site? I bet they do.

I think the problem is that the moment the establishment changed their adice and said to follow a high carb low fat diet co-incided exactly with obesity and diabetes taking off like a rocket.

Maybe it was a coincidence but many people think the advice they gave was the cause of moving obesisty to epidemic levels.

What if it all was a big fat lie?
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #588 on: May 23, 2012, 10:46:29 PM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.

The Mayo clinic doesnt have a web site? I bet they do.

I think the problem is that the moment the establishment changed their adice and said to follow a high carb low fat diet co-incided exactly with obesity and diabetes taking off like a rocket.

Maybe it was a coincidence but many people think the advice they gave was the cause of moving obesisty to epidemic levels.

What if it all was a big fat lie?

Do you actually know what the Mayo Clinic diet is, and why they say you should follow it?

Besides, correlation does not imply causation; seeing as how you advocate the paleo diet, I'm not surprised you were unaware of this.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #589 on: May 24, 2012, 02:55:38 AM »

Recently some reports have come out that humans fall into 3 enterotypes, which are defined by the predominant bacteria in your intestines.  This seems to be based on diet and probably explains why some people feel better with a vegetarian diet and others need to eat more of a meat-based diet.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/09/your-gut-bacteria-are-what-you-e.html

There just doesn't seem to be one magic diet that will cure everyone of everything. 

Fascinating!  Thanks for the link and information.   

Gut bacteria, the new organ. A MD PhD I knew was into gut bacteria transplanting.

I'll follow later with some thoughts on IFing, been pretty "busy" lately.

I did a 24 fast with only water a bit of green tea (no honey / sugar added).  I didn't feel anything particularly negative from the experience, i.e I wasn't curled up in pain howling from hunger.  Psychologically it was definitely a positive experience.  I ate a normal dinner on Tuesday and skipped breakfast and lunch on Wednesday.  Next time I think I'll experiment - eat breakfast on Wednesday and skip lunch and dinner.

The gut bacteria thing is definitely interesting, and I'm surprised at how little information there is out there about it.  I love foods and drinks that are bubbling with life: kvas, kefir, sauerkraut etc.   I'm still in the experimental phase with making sourdough bread. 
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #590 on: May 24, 2012, 03:09:20 AM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.

An imprimatur from scientists and doctors isn't foolproof.  You actually need a scientist to manufacture all the ingredients in a twinkie.  A peasant would have no trouble making 99% of the foods in my kitchen.  I'm highly skeptical of the health claims of highly processed foods.  And there remains the appearance of corruption when people bounce back and forth between industry and governmental regulating bodies.  It isn't impossible to buy scientists either.         
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #591 on: May 24, 2012, 03:40:29 AM »

If you read his stuff carefully you will see a big overlap of agreement between him and Taubes and the others.

For example, he says, "Don't eat anything you see advertised". That's a great rule of thumb

He blames carbs for the increase of obesity

He understands that saturated fat does not make you fat nor does it promote hear disease.
Avoiding carbs is stupid, considering it is a macronutrient. Carbs and fat are actually good for you, it's just a matter of choosing the right ones.

Man the next person that says carbs is bad for you I will scream. Your body needs carbs. They are the fuel that it uses to get you through the day on a minute-by-minute basis. I'm not going to get into the science of what is a carb but researchg has shown that eating a diet that is high in more complex carbs helps you lose weight more easily.

There are a number of reasons for this, including that the complex carbs in such foods as whole wheat pasta, beans, and oatmeal are more filling and by breaking down slower help you feel satisfied longer. This may aslo be because they dont cause as dramatic surge in insulin and other hormones.

Although there is evidence that people do lose weight on Atkins type low-carb diets, they are not the miracle diets that they are made out to be. The reason that low carb diets work is because of the poor quality carb choices people generally make. Its easy to lose weight when you just stop eating potato chips, french fries, crackers, candy, cake, ice crea, and so on. This is why people succeed on the Atkins or South Beach diet: they simply quit eating junk. This is a good thing and weight loss is about eating fewer calories than you burn. That said, eating a balance of calories, good carbs, protein, healthy fats is what helps you stay slim. Howver most folks cant sustain their weight loss on such fad diets because the diets are too limiting.

You dont have to eliminate carbs to lose weight and eat healthy. You just need to make better carb choices. You have to choose the best calories. It's like choosing pasta, go with whole wheat. The higher fiber will keep you satisifed longer. The same hold true for such things as brown rice instead of white and yams instead of potatoes. These more complex, higher fiber carbs have been shown time and again to be better for you.

One of the best fat studies looked at 800+ senior citizens to evalute the role diet might play in Alzheimers. Researchers found a clear correlation between diets high in saturated fat and trans fats and the risk of Alzh. Those who ate the most saturated fat and trans fats had almost twice the risk of Alzheimers dementia.

What's interesting is total fat didn't matter. But eating more fats from veggie sources appeared to protect those in the study from developing Alzh. Eating a higher proportion of polyunsaturated to saturated fats was also vital to prevention. Eating more unsaturated fats even moderated the risks of eating a higher percentage of trans fats.

There are thousand of studies that draw the same conclusions. Also of heart disease, diabetes and cancer. Its not the fat that is the problem, it is the type of fat. In order to cut back on saturated fats, although its recommended at 10% of your calories come from sat fat, I go for leaner cuts of meat, fewer fried foods and getting more fat from vegetable sources rather than meat.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 03:43:29 AM by Achronos » Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #592 on: May 24, 2012, 03:41:18 AM »

Here is a good you tube with Michael Pollan talking about the documentary "Food Inc." which he helped to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmF_erEv1o&feature=fvsr

And in case you didnt make it to pt. 4 of Joe Salitin of Polyface farm he addresses the environmental efficiency of grass fed meat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSIFRlloCGA&feature=endscreen&NR=1

As I understood the video, Salitin is discussing implementing his system on other similar farms.  He isn't comparing his production levels to industrial feed lots.  The bigger problems underpinning this (which Food Inc addresses) are agricultural subsidies in the US.  If the US returned to a free market system like exists in Europe there wouldn't be any cheep corn to feed cattle.  The flip side of this is that here (i.e Europe) meat and poultry is actually pretty expensive.  For that reason touching the corn subsidies in the US would be political suicide.  It's hard for me to gauge at a distance but I don't think the critical mass is there yet to demand change.  "Foodies" are still too small of a niche.  


I decided to go back and read the article. Pollan says very little that supports the Paleo diet--in fact, he says quite a lot against it, albeit without actually naming it. The basic jist of the article was to eat in moderation, don't eat too much meat, to eat mostly plants (and btw, the plant category includes whole grains), and to avoid information/nutritionism that tries to demonize a particular macronutrient.
 

Exactly.  Marc's argument seems to be anybody who enjoys grass-fed beef is at least loosely affiliated with paleo-diet.  I mean, if I lived near polyface farms I'd buy my meat there.  That doesn't mean I follow the paleo-diet.  Although even Polyface isn't entirely traditional / paleo - they only raise Cornish Cross chickens.   You can find Salitin's response to this if you google it.  Basically he couldn't turn a profit with heritage breeds because people wouldn't buy them.   Shocked  
Logged
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #593 on: May 24, 2012, 05:47:06 AM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.

An imprimatur from scientists and doctors isn't foolproof.  You actually need a scientist to manufacture all the ingredients in a twinkie.  A peasant would have no trouble making 99% of the foods in my kitchen.  I'm highly skeptical of the health claims of highly processed foods.  And there remains the appearance of corruption when people bounce back and forth between industry and governmental regulating bodies.  It isn't impossible to buy scientists either.         

That's true; but the Mayo Clinic diet is also one that naturally makes sense, as I understand it: Watch portion size, have vegetables and fruits as the core of your diet, followed by carbohydrates, followed by meat, then heart-healthy fats, and lastly sweets, and exercise. 
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,469


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #594 on: May 24, 2012, 08:50:24 AM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.

An imprimatur from scientists and doctors isn't foolproof.  You actually need a scientist to manufacture all the ingredients in a twinkie.  A peasant would have no trouble making 99% of the foods in my kitchen.  I'm highly skeptical of the health claims of highly processed foods.  And there remains the appearance of corruption when people bounce back and forth between industry and governmental regulating bodies.  It isn't impossible to buy scientists either.         

That's true; but the Mayo Clinic diet is also one that naturally makes sense, as I understand it: Watch portion size, have vegetables and fruits as the core of your diet, followed by carbohydrates, followed by meat, then heart-healthy fats, and lastly sweets, and exercise. 

Which sounds a lot like Michael Pollan's diet : "Eat food.  Not too much.  Mostly plants."
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #595 on: May 24, 2012, 03:57:41 PM »

If someone really wants to follow a diet so much, follow the Mayo Clinic diet, you know, the one crafted by scientists and medical doctors and that don't rely on websites like lewrockwell.com to spread their message.

The Mayo clinic doesnt have a web site? I bet they do.

I think the problem is that the moment the establishment changed their adice and said to follow a high carb low fat diet co-incided exactly with obesity and diabetes taking off like a rocket.

Maybe it was a coincidence but many people think the advice they gave was the cause of moving obesisty to epidemic levels.

What if it all was a big fat lie?

Do you actually know what the Mayo Clinic diet is, and why they say you should follow it?

Besides, correlation does not imply causation; seeing as how you advocate the paleo diet, I'm not surprised you were unaware of this.

 I was more focused on your suggestion that we depend on what the Medical Establishment, who are Scientists after all, have to say. I did just look at the diet and my assumption was right, it is what the medical establishment has recommended for years now, low fat and high carbs ( with at least the minor change that gains be "Whole Grains").

The more important thing to me is the idea that we need to listen to the "Scientists" with the implication that they have done the proper research and have come up with something backed by Scientific investigation.

That is a perfectly reasonable assumption. Scientists are a sort of secular Priesthood that we automatically ascribe many virtues to. We should turn to them for their advice. But like the Roman Catholic Priesthood or the Presidency, many of us have been disappointed.  Nixon was a crook, Clinton couldn't keep it in his pants ( and neither could JFK or Johnson we have learned) and Roman Priests...well, lets not go there.Smiley

The main emphasis of Gary Taubes work is uncovering the shocking **** poor Science behind the establishment food recommendations ( Low Fat, High Carb..lots of exercise). We have only been talking about the last page or two of his work that talks about what we should eat ( Basically he says Dr. Atkins and his diet is right).

Taubes is a Science Journalist. His first investigative work was into shoddy Science in Physics, namely Cold Fusion. Someone mentioned to him that if he was appalled by shoddy Science in Physics, he should take a look at Public Health and Nutrition which is the worst of the worst in terms of Bad Science.

That is what his 500 page book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" deals with. Bad Science in Nutrition and Public Health. Many of the other alternative advocates, especially Dr. Robert Lustig ( "Sugar, The Bitter Truth")  will tell you about the exact studies that formed the basis for the Establishment Paradigm ( Low Fat, High Carb from "Whole foods") and how we know with very high certainty that they are wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&ob=av3e

One early study followed Men who ate a high fat diet. To make a long story short, their incidence of Heart Disease was high.. The Establishment was off and running and never looked back. But years later it occurred to a researcher that they didn't exclude several variables. It turned out that Men who ate a high fat diet ( back then) concurrently ate lots of sugar.  So they re-tested Men who ate a high fat diet but left out the Sugar this time. Reverse results, the high fat diet reduced all markers of bad health ( blood lipids, inflammation , weight etc) and they had far fewer heart attacks. It's the sugar that kills, not the fat.

You would think that there have been studies that compare Low Fat Diets with the most popular alternative Atkins type High Fat Low Car Diet.
But you would be wrong. Never been done and it wont be. Any study ( and there have been several examples of this) that shows initial results demonstrating superiority of Low Carb Diets lose their funding half way through. Or if  studies show contradictory results the part about Low Carb gets tossed and only the part that supports their agenda sees the light of day.

 Go read Taubes book. He will give you names and dates. He is an investigative Journalist. This is his wheelhouse.

You would think there is incontrovertible evidence that  Low Fat Diets prevent heart disease and obesity.

 There isn't.

You would think that there is very convincing evidence that high cholesterol causes heart disease.

 There isn't.

 You would assume that these Scientists know with high certainty that saturated fat makes you fat and contributes to heart disease..


Nothing of the kind has ever been shown.

For example, Low Fat advocates cite the good results of Cholesterol lowering drugs and their proven ability to reduce Heart Disease. Therefore, a diet that lowers cholesterol ( Low Fat Diets) must be good too.

Not so fast. It turns out that it may well be the powerful anti inflammatory effects satin drugs have that is what is helping your heart, not the lower Cholesterol. In fact, they are finding that low cholesterol correlates with both increased cancer and accelerates dementia and all the while does nothing for your heart health... But how many Billions of dollars are made from Statins?  

If you want to have a good career in this field you don't buck the system. You stick to the establishment paradigm,and any alternative is either ignored or actively suppressed. After all, if Low Carb is really the key then these guys have killed literally millions of people with incorrect data and incorrect advice.  

So if you think there is lots of Scientific Data, lots of good experimentation, lots of careful reasoned analysis behind what the medical establishment has touted for the last few decades you would be wrong. The Bad Science involved in Public Health and Nutrition is  scandalous.

At this point there are literally billions of dollars at stake and reputations to protect.

Caveat Emptor



Vulgarity removed from post  -PtA
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:32:39 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #596 on: May 24, 2012, 09:47:13 PM »

My wife brought home "Newsweek" today. I think it's last weeks edition. The cover shows a chubby baby holding french fries. The text reads: "When I grow up, I'm going to weigh 300 lbs"

.. It's the featured story.. Author ?  Gary Taubes..

Funny huh?

The article is a good summary. If you see it around it's a quick read. 
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #597 on: May 24, 2012, 11:55:51 PM »

My wife brought home "Newsweek" today. I think it's last weeks edition. The cover shows a chubby baby holding french fries. The text reads: "When I grow up, I'm going to weigh 300 lbs"

.. It's the featured story.. Author ?  Gary Taubes..

Funny huh?

The article is a good summary. If you see it around it's a quick read. 

Something being published in Newsweek is normally reason to not read it.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #598 on: May 25, 2012, 04:16:46 AM »

Well I'll be darned.  Even Marc could eat my bread now.  I was looking at around the internet for some information on sourdough and apparent the Weston Price types will eat bread as long as it is sourdough.  Something about the long fermentation destroys gluten.   
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #599 on: May 25, 2012, 05:27:07 AM »

So reading further, I find even more that makes it obvious one should be skeptical of Marc's claims that Pollan, Weston Price and others are all basically the same as the Paleo-diet.  If one actually reads Price he doesn't come up with anything approaching the Paleo diet - probably because he observed actual, living humans rather than imaginary cavemen.  Here is a chapter from one of his books about isolated people in Switzerland.  The diet of the people described is:
Rye - whole grain rye bread.  Very Verboten by the paleo-diet.
Dairy - ranges from very verboten, to begrudgingly tolerated in certain forms
Potatoes - Verboten
Wine - should be forbidden (only about 8,000 years of history)
Meat - only once a week! 

For some the paleo diet might work, but the claim to it's universal applicability or even its suitability for people of European descent is somewhere between incompetent to deceitful.   
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #600 on: May 25, 2012, 09:13:46 PM »

Well I'll be darned.  Even Marc could eat my bread now.  I was looking at around the internet for some information on sourdough and apparent the Weston Price types will eat bread as long as it is sourdough.  Something about the long fermentation destroys gluten.  

Right.. That is the essential difference between where you end up with Weston Price vs. Paleo Diet.

Weston Price studied isolated populations in the 1930's. He found that grains were rarely eaten unless they fermented the hell out of them or they were eaten along with plenty of fat and proteins.

Both end up close to the same spot. Grass Fed meat, natural eggs, green vegetables, some fruit and nuts. With Weston Price a little bit of fermented grains. With Paleo none at all.

Both end up saying that you should get most of your calories from natural meat. Both say to stay away from sugar and highly processed foods.
Weston Price says to stay away from dairy unless it is unpasteurized (Raw). Paleo says no Dairy at all.

You dont think that's close?? Both diets are mostly meat..  

..

  From the Weston Price Web site ( www.westonaprice.com)

Studies of indigenous peoples by Weston Price and many others reveal the wisdom of native diets and life-style. For not only did so-called primitive peoples follow the "perfect" anti-diabetes life-style program, but their diets incorporated specific foods only recently discovered to play an important role in the prevention and treatment of this disease. In general, indigenous peoples had a low carbohydrate intake coupled with a lot of physical activity. In fact, those peoples especially prone to diabetes today, such as northern Native Americans and Inuits, consumed virtually no carbohydrate foods. In warmer climates, where tubers and fruits were more abundant, these foods were usually fermented and consumed with adequate protein and fat. It is only in the change to Western habits that their so-called "genetic" tendency to diabetes manifests.

http://www.westonaprice.org/diabetes/treating-diabetes
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 09:29:54 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #601 on: May 25, 2012, 09:15:24 PM »

Michael Pollan on Joel Salatin's Polyface Farm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAHGbbjenhI&feature=g-vrec

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #602 on: May 25, 2012, 09:35:10 PM »

My wife brought home "Newsweek" today. I think it's last weeks edition. The cover shows a chubby baby holding french fries. The text reads: "When I grow up, I'm going to weigh 300 lbs"

.. It's the featured story.. Author ?  Gary Taubes..

Funny huh?

The article is a good summary. If you see it around it's a quick read. 

Something being published in Newsweek is normally reason to not read it.

Well that settles it then..
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #603 on: May 25, 2012, 09:46:39 PM »

Something being published in Newsweek is normally reason to not read it.

Agreed.
Logged


I'm going to need this.
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #604 on: May 25, 2012, 11:45:52 PM »

Well I'll be darned.  Even Marc could eat my bread now.  I was looking at around the internet for some information on sourdough and apparent the Weston Price types will eat bread as long as it is sourdough.  Something about the long fermentation destroys gluten.  

Right.. That is the essential difference between where you end up with Weston Price vs. Paleo Diet.

Weston Price studied isolated populations in the 1930's. He found that grains were rarely eaten unless they fermented the hell out of them or they were eaten along with plenty of fat and proteins.

Both end up close to the same spot. Grass Fed meat, natural eggs, green vegetables, some fruit and nuts. With Weston Price a little bit of fermented grains. With Paleo none at all.

Both end up saying that you should get most of your calories from natural meat. Both say to stay away from sugar and highly processed foods.
Weston Price says to stay away from dairy unless it is unpasteurized (Raw). Paleo says no Dairy at all.

You dont think that's close?? Both diets are mostly meat..  

..

  From the Weston Price Web site ( www.westonaprice.com)

Studies of indigenous peoples by Weston Price and many others reveal the wisdom of native diets and life-style. For not only did so-called primitive peoples follow the "perfect" anti-diabetes life-style program, but their diets incorporated specific foods only recently discovered to play an important role in the prevention and treatment of this disease. In general, indigenous peoples had a low carbohydrate intake coupled with a lot of physical activity. In fact, those peoples especially prone to diabetes today, such as northern Native Americans and Inuits, consumed virtually no carbohydrate foods. In warmer climates, where tubers and fruits were more abundant, these foods were usually fermented and consumed with adequate protein and fat. It is only in the change to Western habits that their so-called "genetic" tendency to diabetes manifests.

http://www.westonaprice.org/diabetes/treating-diabetes


Meat once a week.  The core of the diet was rye.  Not close.  Try again. 
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #605 on: May 26, 2012, 10:29:35 AM »

Well I'll be darned.  Even Marc could eat my bread now.  I was looking at around the internet for some information on sourdough and apparent the Weston Price types will eat bread as long as it is sourdough.  Something about the long fermentation destroys gluten.  

Right.. That is the essential difference between where you end up with Weston Price vs. Paleo Diet.

Weston Price studied isolated populations in the 1930's. He found that grains were rarely eaten unless they fermented the hell out of them or they were eaten along with plenty of fat and proteins.

Both end up close to the same spot. Grass Fed meat, natural eggs, green vegetables, some fruit and nuts. With Weston Price a little bit of fermented grains. With Paleo none at all.

Both end up saying that you should get most of your calories from natural meat. Both say to stay away from sugar and highly processed foods.
Weston Price says to stay away from dairy unless it is unpasteurized (Raw). Paleo says no Dairy at all.

You dont think that's close?? Both diets are mostly meat..  

..

  From the Weston Price Web site ( www.westonaprice.com)

Studies of indigenous peoples by Weston Price and many others reveal the wisdom of native diets and life-style. For not only did so-called primitive peoples follow the "perfect" anti-diabetes life-style program, but their diets incorporated specific foods only recently discovered to play an important role in the prevention and treatment of this disease. In general, indigenous peoples had a low carbohydrate intake coupled with a lot of physical activity. In fact, those peoples especially prone to diabetes today, such as northern Native Americans and Inuits, consumed virtually no carbohydrate foods. In warmer climates, where tubers and fruits were more abundant, these foods were usually fermented and consumed with adequate protein and fat. It is only in the change to Western habits that their so-called "genetic" tendency to diabetes manifests.

http://www.westonaprice.org/diabetes/treating-diabetes


Meat once a week.  The core of the diet was rye.  Not close.  Try again. 

Okay I will... This is why cherry picking leads to wrong conclusions.

What you should be looking at are the conclusions of the Weston Price Foundation. Based on all of Dr. Price's work and their own expertise their dietary recommendations are in line with what I have been saying. I am a member of the Weston Price Foundation. Are You?

Here is a good place to start. They have a whole section on "The ABC's of Nutrition" . Great stuff...

Here is their list of the common characteristics of "Traditional Diets"... You will find it remarkably similar to the Paleo Diet with a few minor exceptions.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics

    The diets of healthy primitive and nonindustrialized peoples contain no refined or denatured foods such as refined sugar or corn syrup; white flour; canned foods; pasteurized, homogenized, skim or low-fat milk; refined or hydrogenated vegetable oils; protein powders; artificial vitamins or toxic additives and colorings.

    All traditional cultures consume some sort of animal protein and fat from fish and other seafood; water and land fowl; land animals; eggs; milk and milk products; reptiles; and insects.

    Primitive diets contain at least four times the calcium and other minerals and TEN times the fat soluble vitamins from animal fats (vitamin A, vitamin D and the Price Factor--now believed to be vitamin K2) as the average American diet.

    In all traditional cultures, some animal products are eaten raw.

    Primitive and traditional diets have a high food-enzyme content from raw dairy products, raw meat and fish; raw honey; tropical fruits; cold-pressed oils; wine and unpasteurized beer; and naturally preserved, lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages, meats and condiments.

    Seeds, grains and nuts are soaked, sprouted, fermented or naturally leavened in order to neutralize naturally occuring antinutrients in these foods, such as phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, tannins and complex carbohydrates.

    Total fat content of traditional diets varies from 30% to 80% but only about 4% of calories come from polyunsaturated oils naturally occurring in grains, pulses, nuts, fish, animal fats and vegetables. The balance of fat calories is in the form of saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids.

    Traditional diets contain nearly equal amounts of omega-6 and omega-3 essential fatty acids.

    All primitive diets contain some salt.

    Traditional cultures consume animal bones, usually in the form of gelatin-rich bone broths.

    Traditional cultures make provisions for the health of future generations by providing special nutrient-rich foods for parents-to-be, pregnant women and growing children; by proper spacing of children; and by teaching the principles of right diet to the young.

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #606 on: May 26, 2012, 10:47:53 AM »

Y'all are makin me hungry.
Logged


I'm going to need this.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #607 on: May 26, 2012, 11:09:10 AM »

"Traditional cultures make provisions for the health of future generations by providing special nutrient-rich foods for parents-to-be, pregnant women and growing children; by proper spacing of children; and by teaching the principles of right diet to the young."
www.westonaprice.org/basics


Here is an interesting corner of the obesity discussion, obesity in infants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of-qvDprr0w&feature=relmfu
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #608 on: May 26, 2012, 03:52:16 PM »

Well I'll be darned.  Even Marc could eat my bread now.  I was looking at around the internet for some information on sourdough and apparent the Weston Price types will eat bread as long as it is sourdough.  Something about the long fermentation destroys gluten.  

Right.. That is the essential difference between where you end up with Weston Price vs. Paleo Diet.

Weston Price studied isolated populations in the 1930's. He found that grains were rarely eaten unless they fermented the hell out of them or they were eaten along with plenty of fat and proteins.

Both end up close to the same spot. Grass Fed meat, natural eggs, green vegetables, some fruit and nuts. With Weston Price a little bit of fermented grains. With Paleo none at all.

Both end up saying that you should get most of your calories from natural meat. Both say to stay away from sugar and highly processed foods.
Weston Price says to stay away from dairy unless it is unpasteurized (Raw). Paleo says no Dairy at all.

You dont think that's close?? Both diets are mostly meat..  

..

  From the Weston Price Web site ( www.westonaprice.com)

Studies of indigenous peoples by Weston Price and many others reveal the wisdom of native diets and life-style. For not only did so-called primitive peoples follow the "perfect" anti-diabetes life-style program, but their diets incorporated specific foods only recently discovered to play an important role in the prevention and treatment of this disease. In general, indigenous peoples had a low carbohydrate intake coupled with a lot of physical activity. In fact, those peoples especially prone to diabetes today, such as northern Native Americans and Inuits, consumed virtually no carbohydrate foods. In warmer climates, where tubers and fruits were more abundant, these foods were usually fermented and consumed with adequate protein and fat. It is only in the change to Western habits that their so-called "genetic" tendency to diabetes manifests.

http://www.westonaprice.org/diabetes/treating-diabetes


Meat once a week.  The core of the diet was rye.  Not close.  Try again. 

Okay I will... This is why cherry picking leads to wrong conclusions.

What you should be looking at are the conclusions of the Weston Price Foundation. Based on all of Dr. Price's work and their own expertise their dietary recommendations are in line with what I have been saying. I am a member of the Weston Price Foundation. Are You?

Here is a good place to start. They have a whole section on "The ABC's of Nutrition" . Great stuff...

Here is their list of the common characteristics of "Traditional Diets"... You will find it remarkably similar to the Paleo Diet with a few minor exceptions.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics

    The diets of healthy primitive and nonindustrialized peoples contain no refined or denatured foods such as refined sugar or corn syrup; white flour; canned foods; pasteurized, homogenized, skim or low-fat milk; refined or hydrogenated vegetable oils; protein powders; artificial vitamins or toxic additives and colorings.

    All traditional cultures consume some sort of animal protein and fat from fish and other seafood; water and land fowl; land animals; eggs; milk and milk products; reptiles; and insects.

    Primitive diets contain at least four times the calcium and other minerals and TEN times the fat soluble vitamins from animal fats (vitamin A, vitamin D and the Price Factor--now believed to be vitamin K2) as the average American diet.

    In all traditional cultures, some animal products are eaten raw.

    Primitive and traditional diets have a high food-enzyme content from raw dairy products, raw meat and fish; raw honey; tropical fruits; cold-pressed oils; wine and unpasteurized beer; and naturally preserved, lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages, meats and condiments.

    Seeds, grains and nuts are soaked, sprouted, fermented or naturally leavened in order to neutralize naturally occuring antinutrients in these foods, such as phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, tannins and complex carbohydrates.

    Total fat content of traditional diets varies from 30% to 80% but only about 4% of calories come from polyunsaturated oils naturally occurring in grains, pulses, nuts, fish, animal fats and vegetables. The balance of fat calories is in the form of saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids.

    Traditional diets contain nearly equal amounts of omega-6 and omega-3 essential fatty acids.

    All primitive diets contain some salt.

    Traditional cultures consume animal bones, usually in the form of gelatin-rich bone broths.

    Traditional cultures make provisions for the health of future generations by providing special nutrient-rich foods for parents-to-be, pregnant women and growing children; by proper spacing of children; and by teaching the principles of right diet to the young.



*sigh*  You are still missing the point.  The above is not the paleo-diet.  My own diet isn't too terribly far from the above, yet many of the foods I eat are either outright forbidden or are somewhat dubious according to the Paleo-diet.  Even looking at Dr. Price's data and conclusions, there are plenty of foods that he saw healthy populations consuming that modern paleo-bloggers eschew for really no reason.   On the other hand foods that are absolutely not paleo in the literal sense of the word, say fruit or alcohol, aren't shunned by paleo-bloggers but a loaf sourdough rye bread or a potato is due to them not being paleo are shunned - where is the logic in this? 
Logged
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,502



« Reply #609 on: May 26, 2012, 05:12:24 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #610 on: May 26, 2012, 07:09:37 PM »

Logged


I'm going to need this.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #611 on: May 26, 2012, 07:16:55 PM »

Image fails for thinking there are new recipes in the Paleo diet.

Is that a pic of Marc?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #612 on: May 26, 2012, 07:20:44 PM »

Image fails for thinking there are new recipes in the Paleo diet.

Is that a pic of Marc?

Yeah. But that was before he took the annual bath.
Logged


I'm going to need this.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #613 on: May 26, 2012, 07:38:42 PM »

Paleo dieters take baths? I thought their diet was so good that you didn't have to.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #614 on: May 26, 2012, 09:43:29 PM »

Well I'll be darned.  Even Marc could eat my bread now.  I was looking at around the internet for some information on sourdough and apparent the Weston Price types will eat bread as long as it is sourdough.  Something about the long fermentation destroys gluten.  

Right.. That is the essential difference between where you end up with Weston Price vs. Paleo Diet.

Weston Price studied isolated populations in the 1930's. He found that grains were rarely eaten unless they fermented the hell out of them or they were eaten along with plenty of fat and proteins.

Both end up close to the same spot. Grass Fed meat, natural eggs, green vegetables, some fruit and nuts. With Weston Price a little bit of fermented grains. With Paleo none at all.

Both end up saying that you should get most of your calories from natural meat. Both say to stay away from sugar and highly processed foods.
Weston Price says to stay away from dairy unless it is unpasteurized (Raw). Paleo says no Dairy at all.

You dont think that's close?? Both diets are mostly meat..  

..

  From the Weston Price Web site ( www.westonaprice.com)

Studies of indigenous peoples by Weston Price and many others reveal the wisdom of native diets and life-style. For not only did so-called primitive peoples follow the "perfect" anti-diabetes life-style program, but their diets incorporated specific foods only recently discovered to play an important role in the prevention and treatment of this disease. In general, indigenous peoples had a low carbohydrate intake coupled with a lot of physical activity. In fact, those peoples especially prone to diabetes today, such as northern Native Americans and Inuits, consumed virtually no carbohydrate foods. In warmer climates, where tubers and fruits were more abundant, these foods were usually fermented and consumed with adequate protein and fat. It is only in the change to Western habits that their so-called "genetic" tendency to diabetes manifests.

http://www.westonaprice.org/diabetes/treating-diabetes


Meat once a week.  The core of the diet was rye.  Not close.  Try again.  

Okay I will... This is why cherry picking leads to wrong conclusions.

What you should be looking at are the conclusions of the Weston Price Foundation. Based on all of Dr. Price's work and their own expertise their dietary recommendations are in line with what I have been saying. I am a member of the Weston Price Foundation. Are You?

Here is a good place to start. They have a whole section on "The ABC's of Nutrition" . Great stuff...

Here is their list of the common characteristics of "Traditional Diets"... You will find it remarkably similar to the Paleo Diet with a few minor exceptions.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics

    The diets of healthy primitive and nonindustrialized peoples contain no refined or denatured foods such as refined sugar or corn syrup; white flour; canned foods; pasteurized, homogenized, skim or low-fat milk; refined or hydrogenated vegetable oils; protein powders; artificial vitamins or toxic additives and colorings.

    All traditional cultures consume some sort of animal protein and fat from fish and other seafood; water and land fowl; land animals; eggs; milk and milk products; reptiles; and insects.

    Primitive diets contain at least four times the calcium and other minerals and TEN times the fat soluble vitamins from animal fats (vitamin A, vitamin D and the Price Factor--now believed to be vitamin K2) as the average American diet.

    In all traditional cultures, some animal products are eaten raw.

    Primitive and traditional diets have a high food-enzyme content from raw dairy products, raw meat and fish; raw honey; tropical fruits; cold-pressed oils; wine and unpasteurized beer; and naturally preserved, lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages, meats and condiments.

    Seeds, grains and nuts are soaked, sprouted, fermented or naturally leavened in order to neutralize naturally occuring antinutrients in these foods, such as phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, tannins and complex carbohydrates.

    Total fat content of traditional diets varies from 30% to 80% but only about 4% of calories come from polyunsaturated oils naturally occurring in grains, pulses, nuts, fish, animal fats and vegetables. The balance of fat calories is in the form of saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids.

    Traditional diets contain nearly equal amounts of omega-6 and omega-3 essential fatty acids.

    All primitive diets contain some salt.

    Traditional cultures consume animal bones, usually in the form of gelatin-rich bone broths.

    Traditional cultures make provisions for the health of future generations by providing special nutrient-rich foods for parents-to-be, pregnant women and growing children; by proper spacing of children; and by teaching the principles of right diet to the young.



*sigh*  You are still missing the point.  The above is not the paleo-diet.  My own diet isn't too terribly far from the above, yet many of the foods I eat are either outright forbidden or are somewhat dubious according to the Paleo-diet.  Even looking at Dr. Price's data and conclusions, there are plenty of foods that he saw healthy populations consuming that modern paleo-bloggers eschew for really no reason.   On the other hand foods that are absolutely not paleo in the literal sense of the word, say fruit or alcohol, aren't shunned by paleo-bloggers but a loaf sourdough rye bread or a potato is due to them not being paleo are shunned - where is the logic in this?  



The Weston Price Diet is not the Paleo Diet. He didnt study the Hunter Gatherers of the Paleolithic era. He studied isolated populations in the modern era.Some of those populations were still hunter gatherers to some extent. The Weston Price Foundation does seem to have some interest in somewhat earlier hunter gatherer populations like American Indians.

Some things these populations ate were not eaten in Paleolithic times. However, many of the basic principles you would need to employ in order to mimic a  Paleolithic Diet are essentially the same as what you find in more modern Traditional Diets.

The three main differences between Weston Price and Paleo diets are:

1. Loren Cordain one of the best known Paleo advocates says to eat lean meat. Weston Price people say Hunter Gatherers dont' eschew fat at all.
   Cordain counters by saying that heards go through times of fat and times of lean, so people couldn't have eaten lots of fat all year.

2. Most Paleo Diet authors say to totally stay away from Dairy. Milk drinking is a relatively late day innovation.

Weston Price also say to totally keep away from Dairy if it has been Pasteurized and Homogenized. Only consume Raw Milk ( Goat , Cow or Sheep). The main benefit from this is to give the consumer a good dose of Raw food ( which has properties and enzymes that are destroyed  in cooked food and pasteurized milk ).   It is so remarkably healthy for you that they include it in their recommendations. Modern people will shy away from eating their meat and eggs raw but raw milk is generally acceptable to the modern palate.. There are many other arguments Weston Price advocates make.. This is an old old fight.. I suggest the book "The Untold Story of Milk" by Roy Schmid.

3. Paleo  advocates say to totally avoid grains and legumes.They contain what they term  anti-nutrients.

Weston Price advocates also say that grains contain anti-nutrients but they can be neutralized by fermentation. They also highly recommend fermentation as it greatly increases enzymes in the food, making them into something you could call "Super Raw"

That's all I know. I see no reason to be upset. Either way of eating is good. Paleo is a bit easier to implement IMHO as it is very straight forward

 I am personally slightly more Weston Price than Paleo as I drink raw milk and use butter from grass fed cows etc. But while trying to drop weight I will cut back on Milk and go very low carb..    

« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 09:55:37 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #615 on: May 26, 2012, 09:51:06 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,161


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #616 on: May 26, 2012, 10:27:26 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you.  
You've submitted your concerns to the moderators for our consideration, and we are considering your request. Until we make a decision, please trust us to do what's best and stop taking it upon yourself to do what you have asked us to do. According to the rules as they currently stand, orthonorm has every right to include your name in his signature. If you have a problem with this then please take it up with me via private message.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 10:29:25 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,502



« Reply #617 on: May 27, 2012, 02:10:29 AM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I was told that you posted about this. I rarely check this thread.

I don't know your name. Your username is Marc1152.

I don't have a tagline, but I do have a .sig.

It does contain Marc. Marc is neither your username and I don't know your real name. And it is struck out.

So this raises the question?

What is a name? And what is that which has been has been struck out?

What can it possibly refer to?

Coincidently, I've been meaning to change my profile stuff, but have been otherwise occupied. So no matter what insignificant questions or answers might be raised by the problems above, soon Marc will no longer appear in my .sig.

What do you think of the quote?
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #618 on: May 27, 2012, 03:28:49 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I was told that you posted about this. I rarely check this thread.

I don't know your name. Your username is Marc1152.

I don't have a tagline, but I do have a .sig.

It does contain Marc. Marc is neither your username and I don't know your real name. And it is struck out.

So this raises the question?

What is a name? And what is that which has been has been struck out?

What can it possibly refer to?

Coincidently, I've been meaning to change my profile stuff, but have been otherwise occupied. So no matter what insignificant questions or answers might be raised by the problems above, soon Marc will no longer appear in my .sig.

What do you think of the quote?

Good..Thank you very much
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #619 on: May 27, 2012, 03:40:41 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #620 on: May 27, 2012, 03:41:33 PM »

Just one more thought about Weston Price vs. Paleo Diets.

In my personal opinion if your had a household where one person was eating by the principles of the Weston Price and the other by the principles found in the Paleo Diet ( a mixed marriage Smiley you would notice very little difference between what is on each person's plate from meal to meal. A few things here and there may be different but they could shop for food at the same places and share almost everything . The same if they were on the Atkins Diet. Looking at each plate day to day, meal to meal there would not be much difference between what you would see them eating for all practical purposes.

From Cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3HuShaTNoY  
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #621 on: May 27, 2012, 03:48:05 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

He posted this just yesterday:

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


 I wouldn't have ever mentioned it if he had not taken a pot shot at me.. This sentence is a bit garbled wouldn't you say?

This is a silly conversation. I suggest we all drop it and move on


Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,502



« Reply #622 on: May 27, 2012, 04:00:16 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

He posted this just yesterday:

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


 I wouldn't have ever mentioned it if he had not taken a pot shot at me.. This sentence is a bit garbled wouldn't you say?

This is a silly conversation. I suggest we all drop it and move on




That is pure poetry. Thanks for reprinting it. Looks better in that color as well.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #623 on: May 27, 2012, 04:05:13 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

He posted this just yesterday:

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


 I wouldn't have ever mentioned it if he had not taken a pot shot at me.. This sentence is a bit garbled wouldn't you say?

This is a silly conversation. I suggest we all drop it and move on




Actually it makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding it.  What is "silly" is your assertion that his posts are ever incomprehensible merely because you are incapable of comprehending them.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,502



« Reply #624 on: May 27, 2012, 04:06:29 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you. 

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

Sometimes I do drop a word or two or misuse one or two when I feel less than well and a sentence will be odd.

But you are correct, I am just not appreciated.

AND TO MARC:

HOW CAN anyTHING you CAN talk about be totally unintelligible? IF you ARe able to taLK abOUt sometHIng in sOMe seNse you MuST havE undERStood it?, thus it cannot be TOTally UNInteLligble.


Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #625 on: May 27, 2012, 04:07:52 PM »

O.o
Logged


I'm going to need this.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,796


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #626 on: May 27, 2012, 04:43:41 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you.  

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

He posted this just yesterday:

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


 I wouldn't have ever mentioned it if he had not taken a pot shot at me.. This sentence is a bit garbled wouldn't you say?

This is a silly conversation. I suggest we all drop it and move on




Actually it makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding it.  What is "silly" is your assertion that his posts are ever incomprehensible merely because you are incapable of comprehending them.

Well of course. Clearly the problem is my lack of IQ. The grammar is perfect and the sentence reads like prose. Thank you for helping me to see that.


God bless you and all the good work you have been doing here.

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 04:44:07 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,113


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #627 on: May 27, 2012, 04:53:34 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you.  

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

He posted this just yesterday:

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


 I wouldn't have ever mentioned it if he had not taken a pot shot at me.. This sentence is a bit garbled wouldn't you say?

This is a silly conversation. I suggest we all drop it and move on




Actually it makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding it.  What is "silly" is your assertion that his posts are ever incomprehensible merely because you are incapable of comprehending them.

Well of course. Clearly the problem is my lack of IQ. The grammar is perfect and the sentence reads like prose. Thank you for helping me to see that.


God bless you and all the good work you have been doing here.

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


I didn't say it was perfectly clear, I said it makes perfect sense; I didn't say you were stupid, I said you are incapable of comprehending it.  If someone uses a word you don't understand, does it mean either the word is made up or that you are stupid for not understanding it?  Or is it possible that you simply hadn't heard the word before?  Likewise, the fact that you have difficulty understanding Orthonorm does not mean you are stupid.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #628 on: May 27, 2012, 05:34:05 PM »

Marc please take your problems to this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44950.0.html

I'm sure our resident experts can help assist. In short I agree with you.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,502



« Reply #629 on: May 27, 2012, 06:01:36 PM »

Marc1152,

Just wondering what rules do you follow for capitalization of the first letter of a word or the entire word and for bolding for emphasis multiple paragraphs?

Is typesetting paleo?

I've seen posts by you so poorly written that they are totally unintelligible. So see to your own faults before taking pot shots at me.

Please  remove my name from your tag line. Thank you.  

I've read a substantial number of orthonorm's posts, and have yet to find any unintelligible; there is a difference between difficult to comprehend and incomprehensible.

He posted this just yesterday:

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


 I wouldn't have ever mentioned it if he had not taken a pot shot at me.. This sentence is a bit garbled wouldn't you say?

This is a silly conversation. I suggest we all drop it and move on




Actually it makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding it.  What is "silly" is your assertion that his posts are ever incomprehensible merely because you are incapable of comprehending them.

Well of course. Clearly the problem is my lack of IQ. The grammar is perfect and the sentence reads like prose. Thank you for helping me to see that.


God bless you and all the good work you have been doing here.

"And yet Zizek, to whom he posted a link, does absolutely not this. He is a thoroughly critical voice of communism, while being a communist."


What is "wrong" with the grammar?

What on earth don't you understand?

Perhaps it is the position of negation?

I often take the voice in which I speak and my use of the negative and its position is used for a reason. Or perhaps it is the odd use of the genitive?

Again reason. In fact, I was being generous to help folks like you understand, as the mentioning while being a communist is not needed due to the use of the "ambiguous" genitive.

Zizek is a thoroughly critical voice of communism.

Or perhaps it is the ambiguous use of critical.

Again reason.

Let the polysemy run.

Heck, let me pick the terrible stuff I write. I more than often make mention of seeing stuff quoted of mine with dropped words or incorrectly conjugated verbs, etc and how it bothers me. It is a reminder of a problem I have.

Interestingly, when people quote those passages, meaning is never at question.

However, sentences like the above seem to throw some folks for a loop.

Grammar is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

OK. Now why the capitalization and bolding everywhere?







« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 06:02:33 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.2 seconds with 72 queries.