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Author Topic: Nutrition and Diet  (Read 59805 times) Average Rating: 0
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ms.hoorah
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« Reply #135 on: February 06, 2010, 07:08:26 PM »

^There is no such thing as an immaculately clean dairy. All cows are filthy. (My grandfather lived on and owned a dairy farm.)  Please realize that individuals that work at dairies may not always have your health motivating their every action.

Some farm families drinking raw milk or those that consume raw eggs can develop an immunity to bacteria like Salmonella after years of exposure.  For those who do not have an immunity, an exposure to these raw products can be deadly.  I'll pray that you are one of the few that is immune to such pathogens.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_BACTHAZARDS.HTML
http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/consumer/fact_sheets/FACTrawmilk1.pdf
http://www.uwex.edu/milkquality/PDF/zoo.pdf
http://foodsafety.k-state.edu/en/article-details.php?a=3&c=14&sc=98&id=872
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Marc1152
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Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #136 on: February 06, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »

^There is no such thing as an immaculately clean dairy. All cows are filthy. (My grandfather lived on and owned a dairy farm.)  Please realize that individuals that work at dairies may not always have your health motivating their every action.

Some farm families drinking raw milk or those that consume raw eggs can develop an immunity to bacteria like Salmonella after years of exposure.  For those who do not have an immunity, an exposure to these raw products can be deadly.  I'll pray that you are one of the few that is immune to such pathogens.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_BACTHAZARDS.HTML
http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/consumer/fact_sheets/FACTrawmilk1.pdf
http://www.uwex.edu/milkquality/PDF/zoo.pdf
http://foodsafety.k-state.edu/en/article-details.php?a=3&c=14&sc=98&id=872


I forgot to mention one of the best sources of information about Raw Milk:

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_milk_health_benefits.html

As I said before, Raw Milk has a lower incidence of causing illness than many foods you already eat.


From Raw-Milk-facts.com:

Q: Won't raw milk make me sick?


A: Not if it is properly collected from cows fed organic grass (and a minimum of grain). Heavy grain diets change the composition of the milk and hinder its ability to protect itself. Grass-fed milk has natural antibiotic properties that help protect it (and those lucky enough to drink it) from pathogenic bacteria. If you've been using pasteurized dairy products, you might want to eat small amounts of yogurt or kefir for a week or so, to give your digestive tract a pro-biotic boost, before switching to raw milk.




There's little mention in the mainstream media these days, of traditional foods having healing properties. Sure, there's a ton of hype touting unfermented soy products, vegetable oils and supplements as modern saviors, but in reality, these items have risk-to-benefit ratios like many drugs do (1).

Few people are aware that clean, raw milk from grass-fed cows was actually used as a medicine in the early part of the last century (2)(3). That's right. Milk straight from the udder, a sort of "stem cell" of foods, was used as medicine to treat, and frequently cure some serious chronic diseases (4). From the time of Hippocrates to until just after World War II, this "white blood" nourished and healed uncounted millions.

Clean raw milk from pastured cows is a complete and properly balanced food. You could live on it exclusively if you had to. Indeed, published accounts exist of people who have done just that (5)(6). What's in it that makes it so great? Let's look at the ingredients to see what makes it such a powerful food (7).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 07:26:18 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
ms.hoorah
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« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2010, 02:17:31 AM »

^There is no such thing as an immaculately clean dairy. All cows are filthy. (My grandfather lived on and owned a dairy farm.)  Please realize that individuals that work at dairies may not always have your health motivating their every action.

Some farm families drinking raw milk or those that consume raw eggs can develop an immunity to bacteria like Salmonella after years of exposure.  For those who do not have an immunity, an exposure to these raw products can be deadly.  I'll pray that you are one of the few that is immune to such pathogens.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_BACTHAZARDS.HTML
http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/consumer/fact_sheets/FACTrawmilk1.pdf
http://www.uwex.edu/milkquality/PDF/zoo.pdf
http://foodsafety.k-state.edu/en/article-details.php?a=3&c=14&sc=98&id=872


I forgot to mention one of the best sources of information about Raw Milk:

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_milk_health_benefits.html

As I said before, Raw Milk has a lower incidence of causing illness than many foods you already eat.


From Raw-Milk-facts.com:

Q: Won't raw milk make me sick?


A: Not if it is properly collected from cows fed organic grass (and a minimum of grain). Heavy grain diets change the composition of the milk and hinder its ability to protect itself. Grass-fed milk has natural antibiotic properties that help protect it (and those lucky enough to drink it) from pathogenic bacteria. If you've been using pasteurized dairy products, you might want to eat small amounts of yogurt or kefir for a week or so, to give your digestive tract a pro-biotic boost, before switching to raw milk.




There's little mention in the mainstream media these days, of traditional foods having healing properties. Sure, there's a ton of hype touting unfermented soy products, vegetable oils and supplements as modern saviors, but in reality, these items have risk-to-benefit ratios like many drugs do (1).

Few people are aware that clean, raw milk from grass-fed cows was actually used as a medicine in the early part of the last century (2)(3). That's right. Milk straight from the udder, a sort of "stem cell" of foods, was used as medicine to treat, and frequently cure some serious chronic diseases (4). From the time of Hippocrates to until just after World War II, this "white blood" nourished and healed uncounted millions.

Clean raw milk from pastured cows is a complete and properly balanced food. You could live on it exclusively if you had to. Indeed, published accounts exist of people who have done just that (5)(6). What's in it that makes it so great? Let's look at the ingredients to see what makes it such a powerful food (7).

No, nothing will change my mind about consuming raw milk. I really wanted to end this discussion, but I can’t. There are people undergoing chemo on this site.  Numerous people end up hospitalized or in complete renal failure every year from drinking unpasteurized milk.  Yes, there are lots of other dangerous foods (ex:  processed meat) that one can purchase, but why purchase any of them?

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product-SpecificInformation/MilkSafety/ucm122062.htm

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/legal-cases/raw-milk-e-coli-and-campylobacter-illnesses-a-big-cold-glass-of-reality/

http://naturalfoodsmerchandiser.com/tabId/119/itemId/4368/Families-sue-Whole-Foods-over-tainted-raw-milk.aspx

All mammals have bacteria in their gut.  Regardless of what they are eating or how clean their environment is, their gut is a reservoir of bacteria.  Even if they have been on numerous broad spectrum antibiotics for 10 days, they will have some bacteria still living in their stomach and intestines.  Therefore, all cows', including grass fed cows, manure harbors bacteria and some of it is known to be dangerous to humans.  

Grass fed cows stomp through manure infested mud every time it rains and manure splashes on their utters. Look out into the pastures and you can see the muddy cow trails that lead to the milking barn. Grass fed cows wallow in manure infested mud to coat their skin when the flies are biting and this gets manure on their utters.  Grass fed cows wade in manure saturated ponds soaking their utters in the contaminated water.
 
The sanitizing apparatus for teat dipping before milking is just that.  It is only sanitizing and not sterilizing.  Sanitizing only reduces the level of some microorganisms; it does not eliminate all bacteria.  Teat dipping only sanitizes, not sterilizes, the cow’s teats when the cow is cooperative and stands completely still.  When the flies are biting (all spring,summer and fall), cows do not stand still.

Raw milk may be more “nutritious” than pasteurized milk, but it can be deadly to consume.  Below is a chart showing that the pathogens that live in cow manure actually grow in refrigerated conditions.  The only way to stop the growth and kill Listeria, Campylobacter, Enterocolitica, and E.coli in food is to heat or irradiate the product.

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/poison.html
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 02:20:57 AM by ms.hoorah » Logged
Marc1152
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Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #138 on: February 07, 2010, 02:46:30 PM »

^There is no such thing as an immaculately clean dairy. All cows are filthy. (My grandfather lived on and owned a dairy farm.)  Please realize that individuals that work at dairies may not always have your health motivating their every action.

Some farm families drinking raw milk or those that consume raw eggs can develop an immunity to bacteria like Salmonella after years of exposure.  For those who do not have an immunity, an exposure to these raw products can be deadly.  I'll pray that you are one of the few that is immune to such pathogens.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_BACTHAZARDS.HTML
http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/consumer/fact_sheets/FACTrawmilk1.pdf
http://www.uwex.edu/milkquality/PDF/zoo.pdf
http://foodsafety.k-state.edu/en/article-details.php?a=3&c=14&sc=98&id=872


I forgot to mention one of the best sources of information about Raw Milk:

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_milk_health_benefits.html

As I said before, Raw Milk has a lower incidence of causing illness than many foods you already eat.

 before Gig Pharma took ove the medical estgqblishment prestigious Medical Institutions like the Mayo Clinic would regularly treat people Raw-Milk-facts.com:

Q: Won't raw milk make me sick?


A: Not if it is properly collected from cows fed organic grass (and a minimum of grain). Heavy grain diets change the composition of the milk and hinder its ability to protect itself. Grass milk has natural antibiotic properties that help protect it (and those lucky enough to drink it) from pathogenic bacteria. If you've been using pasteurized dairy products, you might want to eat small amounts of yogurt or Keefer for a week or so, to give your digestive tract a robotic boost, before switching to raw milk.




There's little mention in the mainstream media these days, of traditional foods having healing properties. Sure, there's a ton of hype touting unfermented soy products, vegetable oils and supplements as modern saviors, but in reality, these items have risk-to-benefit ratios like many drugs do (1).

Few people are aware that clean, raw milk from grass-fed cows was actually used as a medicine in the early part of the last century (2)(3). That's right. Milk straight from the udder, a sort of "stem cell" of foods, was used as medicine to treat, and frequently cure some serious chronic diseases (4). From the time of Hippocrates to until just after World War II, this "white blood" nourished and healed uncounted millions.

Clean raw milk from pastured cows is a complete and properly balanced food. You could live on it exclusively if you had to. Indeed, published accounts exist of people who have done just that (5)(6). What's in it that makes it so great? Let's look at the ingredients to see what makes it such a powerful food (7).

No, nothing will change my mind about consuming raw milk. I really wanted to end this discussion, but I can't. There are people undergoing chemo on this site.  Numerous people end up hospitalized or in complete renal failure every year from drinking unpasteurized milk.  Yes, there are lots of other dangerous foods (ex: processed meat) that one can purchase, but why purchase any of them?

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product-SpecificInformation/MilkSafety/ucm122062.htm

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/legal-cases/raw-milk-e-coli-and-campylobacter-illnesses-a-big-cold-glass-of-reality/

http://naturalfoodsmerchandiser.com/tabId/119/itemId/4368/Families-sue-Whole-Foods-over-tainted-raw-milk.aspx

All mammals have bacteria in their gut.  Regardless of what they are eating or how clean their environment is, their gut is a reservoir of bacteria.  Even if they have been on numerous broad spectrum antibiotics for 10 days, they will have some bacteria still living in their stomach and intestines.  Therefore, all cows', including grass fed cows, manure harbors bacteria and some of it is known to be dangerous to humans.  

Grass fed cows stomp through manure infested mud every time it rains and manure splashes on their utters. Look out into the pastures and you can see the muddy cow trails that lead to the milking barn. Grass fed cows wallow in manure infested mud to coat their skin when the flies are biting and this gets manure on their utters.  Grass fed cows wade in manure saturated ponds soaking their utters in the contaminated water.
 
The sanitizing apparatus for teat dipping before milking is just that.  It is only sanitizing and not sterilizing.  Sanitizing only reduces the level of some microorganisms; it does not eliminate all bacteria.  Teat dipping only sanitizes, not sterilizes, the cow’s teats when the cow is cooperative and stands completely still.  When the flies are biting (all spring,summer and fall), cows do not stand still.

Raw milk may be more “nutritious” than pasteurized milk, but it can be deadly to consume.  Below is a chart showing that the pathogens that live in cow manure actually grow in refrigerated conditions. The only way to stop the growth and kill Listeria, Campylobacter, Enterocolitica, and E.coli in food is to heat or irradiate the product.

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/poison.html


I am sorry that this topic upsets you. We have been propagandized and miss led about many of our foods. The Food Industry has practically devitalized our food supply with their drive to make food more and more profitable for them, nutrition be damned.

The demonization of Raw Milk ("Real Milk") is shameful and has deprived us of one of natures wonders. When the Dairy Industry made the decision to drive Real Milk from the market place and replace it with processed Milk with a longer shelf-life that could  be shipped long distences, one of their main opponents were Physicians ( who knew of it's great benefits).

Before Big Pharma took over the Medical Establishment, prestigious Medical institutions like the Mayo Clinic would regularly treat people by putting them on Raw Milk Fasts.
The good Doctors at the Mayo Clinic apparently did not have the fear about Raw Milk contamination that you do.

If Raw Milk were really dangerous, people would be getting sick from it. The Truth is that Raw Milk has a very very low incidence of causing illness. Spinach has made people sick, not Real Milk.

What you should fear is Pasturized and Homogenized Milk. The Dairies that know their milk will be boiled confine their Cows their entire life. They live in filthy conditions. Confinement Dairys must add an extra step to remove feces since so much is around a confined Cow. Factory cows live less than two years and must constantly be given antibiotics to keep them alive. They are especially prone to hoof and leg infections since they are in pens and prevented from moving around. Simply on the basis of avoiding cruelty to animals you should avoid processed Milk from factories.

On the other hand, Cows allowed to pasture and are fed their natural diet of grass and hay live about 14 years. Their waste is not full of the same toxic bacteria as confined grain fed Cows. In India, Cow dung is used as an antiseptic agent. Grass feeding reduces E-coli to nearly zero. Cows raised for meat have E-coli contamination reduced by 80% when they are allowed out of confinement for just 20% of their time. Cows pastured on grass 100% of the time have no E-coli either in their milk or meat.

The Dairy Industry is rich and powerful. They own Professors and Government officials. There is a revolving door between the Dairy industry and the Government positions that regulate them. Agriculture and Dairy Professors are almost always being paid with grants from the Food Industry.

People are suffering from diseases caused by refined foods and the absence of Wholesome Real Food, such as Raw Milk. Obesity, Diabetes and Cancer abound in the population but were unheard of before we were told that Real Food was bad and convenient Processed food was good.

Millions upon Millions of people consume Real Unprocessed Milk. It is one of the best foods you can consume. It is perfectly safe if purchased from a farm that Grass feeds their Cows, unconfined and clean. Pasteurized Milk comes from sick cows, fed  unnatural diets and pumped full of antibiotics and hormones.

I strongly suggest reading "The Untold Story of Milk" before trying to dissuade people from useing it. You should also watch the moive "Food Inc".

http://www.realmilk.com/rawmilkoverview.html

http://www.realmilk.com/ppt/index.html

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/ResponsetoMarlerListofStudies.pdf
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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
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« Reply #139 on: February 07, 2010, 04:37:48 PM »

More about Cow dung:


The biggest energy contribution from cows and bulls is their dung. India's cattle produce 800 million tons of manure every year. The Vedas explain that dung from cows is different from all other forms of excrement. Indian culture insists that if one comes in contact with the stool of any other animal, they must immediately take a bath. Even after passing stool oneself, bathing is necessary. But the cow's dung, far from being contaminating, instead possesses antiseptic qualities. This has been verified by modern science. Not only is it free from bacteria, but it also does a good job of killing them. Believe it or not, it is every bit as good an antiseptic as Lysol or Mr. Clean.

Most of the dung is used for fertilizer at no cost to the farmer or to the world's fossil fuel reserves. The remainder is used for fuel. It is odorless and burns without scorching, giving a slow, even heat. A housewife can count on leaving her pots unattended all day or return any time to a preheated griddle for short-order cooking. To replace dung with coal would cost India $1.5 billion per year.

Dung is also used for both heating and cooling. Packed on the outside walls of a house, in winter it keeps in the heat, and in summer produces a cooling effect. Also, unlike the stool of humans, it keeps flies away , and when burned, its smoke acts as a repellent for mosquitoes.



http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/sacred-cow.html
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Rosehip
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« Reply #140 on: February 07, 2010, 05:14:57 PM »

 Regarding raw milk, I think some can tolerate it and others can't. Just like some can tolerate milk products in general, while others are lactose intolerant. I lived on a farm once and was fed the raw milk and was able to tolerate it quite well. However, a friend of mine, who was raised on pasturized milk and married a dairy farmer fell gravely ill when she started consuming raw milk. I think it was so serious that she even ended up in the hospital.
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+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
Marc1152
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Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #141 on: February 07, 2010, 10:07:57 PM »

Regarding raw milk, I think some can tolerate it and others can't. Just like some can tolerate milk products in general, while others are lactose intolerant. I lived on a farm once and was fed the raw milk and was able to tolerate it quite well. However, a friend of mine, who was raised on pasteurized milk and married a dairy farmer fell gravely ill when she started consuming raw milk. I think it was so serious that she even ended up in the hospital.

There seem to be two issues here. People who are normally lactose intolerent very often are able to consume Raw Milk because the digestive enzymes are left intact. When milk drinking cultures come into contact with non-milk drinking cultures the next generation is able to consume milk after intermarriage. The gene for Milk toleration is dominant.. So if you have had trouble with Pasteurized Dairy, try Unprocessed Dairy there may be a better result.


If your friend was drinking Milk from grain fed confined Cows, it's no surprise if she got sick. Raw Milk needs to come either from "Certified Dairies" ( held to a higher standard of cleanliness and meant for Raw Milk sales) or  Milk from grass fed Pastured Cows. If you try drinking milk from regular confinement Dairies, you have lost all the natural protections that are built into Real Milk.   
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ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2010, 02:29:42 PM »

^ You act like there are only two options, raw milk or confinement dairies. We drink pasteurized milk from a local free-range dairy (or we did until it was destroyed in a windstorm last summer, and will again once they finish rebuilding in the next couple of months).
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2010, 02:43:37 PM »

More about Cow dung:


The biggest energy contribution from cows and bulls is their dung. India's cattle produce 800 million tons of manure every year. The Vedas explain that dung from cows is different from all other forms of excrement. Indian culture insists that if one comes in contact with the stool of any other animal, they must immediately take a bath. Even after passing stool oneself, bathing is necessary. But the cow's dung, far from being contaminating, instead possesses antiseptic qualities. This has been verified by modern science. Not only is it free from bacteria, but it also does a good job of killing them. Believe it or not, it is every bit as good an antiseptic as Lysol or Mr. Clean.

Most of the dung is used for fertilizer at no cost to the farmer or to the world's fossil fuel reserves. The remainder is used for fuel. It is odorless and burns without scorching, giving a slow, even heat. A housewife can count on leaving her pots unattended all day or return any time to a preheated griddle for short-order cooking. To replace dung with coal would cost India $1.5 billion per year.

Dung is also used for both heating and cooling. Packed on the outside walls of a house, in winter it keeps in the heat, and in summer produces a cooling effect. Also, unlike the stool of humans, it keeps flies away , and when burned, its smoke acts as a repellent for mosquitoes.



http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/sacred-cow.html


I'm sure your neighbors are thrilled with your new-found technologies.  Smiley
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2010, 02:43:45 PM »

I'm taking a Nutrition class this semester, and they seem to teach pretty much the standard/orthodox/governmental view on things like milk, cholesterol, food pyramid, etc. I get the feeling that if some of the posters in this thread were taking it, their head would explode with frustration.  Grin
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ms.hoorah
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« Reply #145 on: February 08, 2010, 02:53:51 PM »

I am sorry that this topic upsets you. We have been propagandized and miss led about many of our foods. The Food Industry has practically devitalized our food supply with their drive to make food more and more profitable for them, nutrition be damned.

The demonization of Raw Milk ("Real Milk") is shameful and has deprived us of one of natures wonders. When the Dairy Industry made the decision to drive Real Milk from the market place and replace it with processed Milk with a longer shelf-life that could  be shipped long distences, one of their main opponents were Physicians ( who knew of it's great benefits).

Before Big Pharma took over the Medical Establishment, prestigious Medical institutions like the Mayo Clinic would regularly treat people by putting them on Raw Milk Fasts.
The good Doctors at the Mayo Clinic apparently did not have the fear about Raw Milk contamination that you do.

If Raw Milk were really dangerous, people would be getting sick from it. The Truth is that Raw Milk has a very very low incidence of causing illness. Spinach has made people sick, not Real Milk.

What you should fear is Pasturized and Homogenized Milk. The Dairies that know their milk will be boiled confine their Cows their entire life. They live in filthy conditions. Confinement Dairys must add an extra step to remove feces since so much is around a confined Cow. Factory cows live less than two years and must constantly be given antibiotics to keep them alive. They are especially prone to hoof and leg infections since they are in pens and prevented from moving around. Simply on the basis of avoiding cruelty to animals you should avoid processed Milk from factories.

On the other hand, Cows allowed to pasture and are fed their natural diet of grass and hay live about 14 years. Their waste is not full of the same toxic bacteria as confined grain fed Cows. In India, Cow dung is used as an antiseptic agent. Grass feeding reduces E-coli to nearly zero. Cows raised for meat have E-coli contamination reduced by 80% when they are allowed out of confinement for just 20% of their time. Cows pastured on grass 100% of the time have no E-coli either in their milk or meat.

The Dairy Industry is rich and powerful. They own Professors and Government officials. There is a revolving door between the Dairy industry and the Government positions that regulate them. Agriculture and Dairy Professors are almost always being paid with grants from the Food Industry.

People are suffering from diseases caused by refined foods and the absence of Wholesome Real Food, such as Raw Milk. Obesity, Diabetes and Cancer abound in the population but were unheard of before we were told that Real Food was bad and convenient Processed food was good.

Millions upon Millions of people consume Real Unprocessed Milk. It is one of the best foods you can consume. It is perfectly safe if purchased from a farm that Grass feeds their Cows, unconfined and clean. Pasteurized Milk comes from sick cows, fed  unnatural diets and pumped full of antibiotics and hormones.

I strongly suggest reading "The Untold Story of Milk" before trying to dissuade people from useing it. You should also watch the moive "Food Inc".

http://www.realmilk.com/rawmilkoverview.html

http://www.realmilk.com/ppt/index.html

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/ResponsetoMarlerListofStudies.pdf
Ok, Marc.  I read your articles.  Now read a few of the recent peer-reviewed, scientific journal articles on the health risks associated with consumption of unpasteurized milk products:
  
1. LeJeune JT and Rajala-Schultz.  Unpasteurized Milk: A Continued Public Health Threat.  Clinical
Infectious Diseases.  2009;48:93-100.
2. Bradley J, Pickering L, Jareb J.  Advise families against giving children unpasteurized milk.  AAP
News.  American Academy of Pediatrics.  29(12).
3. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Campylobacter jejuni infection associated with
unpasteurized milk and cheese – Kansas, 2007.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2009 Jan
2; 57(51):1377-9.
4. Ramos, et al.  Non-imported brucellosis outbreak from unpasteurized raw milk in Moroccan
immigrants in Spain. Epidemiology and Infection.  2008 Nov; 136(11): 1552-5.
5. Scavia, et al.  Enteroaggregative Escherichia coli associated with a foodborne outbreak of
gastroenteritis.  Journal of Medical Microbiology.  2008 Sep; 57(9): 1141-6.
6. Clauss HB and Lorber B.  Central nervous system infection with Listeria monocytogenes.  Current
Infectious Disease Reports.  2008 Jul; 10(4): 300-6.
7. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Escherichia coli 0157:H7 infections in children
associated with raw milk and raw colostrum from cows--California, 2006.  Morbidity and Mortality
Weekly Report.  2008 Jun 13; 57(23):625-8.
8. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Outbreak of multidrug-resistant Salmonella enterica
serotype Newport infections associated with consumption of unpasteurized Mexican-style aged
cheese--Illinois, March 2006-April 2007.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2008 Apr
25;57(16):432-5.
9. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Salmonella typhimurium infection associated with raw
milk and cheese consumption--Pennsylvania, 2007.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2007
Nov 9;56(44):1161-4.
10. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Escherichia coli O157:H7 infection associated with
drinking raw milk--Washington and Oregon, November-December 2005.  Morbidity and Mortality
Weekly Report.  2007 Mar 2;56   8 :165-7.   
11. Schlesser J, et al.  Survival of a five-strain cocktail of Escherichia coli O157:H7 during the 60-day
aging period of cheddar cheese made from unpasteurized milk.  Journal of Food Protection.  2006
May;69(5):990-8.
12. Schildt, et al.  Long-lasting Campylobacter jejuni contamination of milk associated with
gastrointestinal illness in a farming family.  Epidemiology and Infection.  2006 Apr;134(2):401-5.
13. Oliver, et al.  Foodborne pathogens in milk and the dairy farm environment: food safety and public
health implications.  Foodborne Pathogens and Disease.  2005 Summer;2(2):115-29.
14. Honish, et al.  An outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 hemorrhagic colitis associated with unpasteurized
gouda cheese.  2005 May-Jun;96(3):182-4.
15. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Multistate outbreak of Salmonella serotype
typhimurium infections associated with drinking unpasteurized milk--Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and
Tennessee, 2002-2003.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2003 Jul 4;52(26):613-5.
16. Allerberger, et al.  Hemolytic-uremic syndrome associated with enterohemorrhagic Escherichia coli
O26:H infection and consumption of unpasteurized cow's milk.  International Journal of Infectious
Diseases.  2003 Mar;7(1):42-5.
17. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Outbreak of Campylobacter jejuni infections associated
with drinking unpasteurized milk procured through a cow-leasing program--Wisconsin, 2001.  2002
Jun 28;51(25):548-9.
18. DeValk, et al.  A community--wide outbreak of Salmonella enterica serotype Typhimurium infection
associated with eating a raw milk soft cheese in France.  Epidemiology and Infections.  2000
Feb;124(1):1-7.
-------------------
Suggesting that the Mayo Clinic supports the consumption of unpasteurized milk is incorrect and potentially dangerous.  Here is the Mayo Clinic's opinion of consuming unpasteurized milk.
www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-poisoning/ds00981/dsection=causes
www.mayoclinic.com/health/listeria-infection/.../dsection=prevention
www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy-nutrition/pr00109

Ytterbium has an excellent suggestion; drink pasteurized milk from grass fed cows.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 02:56:35 PM by ms.hoorah » Logged
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« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2010, 05:23:37 PM »

^ You act like there are only two options, raw milk or confinement dairies. We drink pasteurized milk from a local free-range dairy (or we did until it was destroyed in a windstorm last summer, and will again once they finish rebuilding in the next couple of months).

Well of course there is always the choice between good better and best. Pasteurized Milk from Grass Fed Cows free of hormones and antibiotics is an improvement over milk from grain fed confined Cows. You can really taste the difference too.

The reality is that you have to work a bit to find Raw Milk, depending on where you live. The lucky people of California only need to walk into a store, it's perfectly legal there. Here in Maryland, I belong to a buying club and "Cow share" program. We are close to PA and are able to work a deal with Amish Farmers who bring down to us Grass Fed Meat, Organic Vegetables Raw Cow and Goat Milk, Cheese, Lard..etc.

With that said, Pasteurization means they boil the Milk. Even if you are careful to buy Milk that is Grass Fed etc. boiling distubes the delicate balance of the milk. It wipes out the digestive enzymes  and pretty much neuters the Milk. You are not poisoning yourself with Hormones and Milk from downer Cows but you are not getting the benefits of Milk in it's natural state, unboiled.
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« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2010, 05:58:20 PM »

I am sorry that this topic upsets you. We have been propagandized and miss led about many of our foods. The Food Industry has practically devitalized our food supply with their drive to make food more and more profitable for them, nutrition be damned.

The demonization of Raw Milk ("Real Milk") is shameful and has deprived us of one of natures wonders. When the Dairy Industry made the decision to drive Real Milk from the market place and replace it with processed Milk with a longer shelf-life that could  be shipped long distences, one of their main opponents were Physicians ( who knew of it's great benefits).

Before Big Pharma took over the Medical Establishment, prestigious Medical institutions like the Mayo Clinic would regularly treat people by putting them on Raw Milk Fasts.
The good Doctors at the Mayo Clinic apparently did not have the fear about Raw Milk contamination that you do.

If Raw Milk were really dangerous, people would be getting sick from it. The Truth is that Raw Milk has a very very low incidence of causing illness. Spinach has made people sick, not Real Milk.

What you should fear is Pasteurized and Homogenized Milk. The Dairies that know their milk will be boiled confine their Cows their entire life. They live in filthy conditions. Confinement Dairy's must add an extra step to remove feces since so much is around a confined Cow. Factory cows live less than two years and must constantly be given antibiotics to keep them alive. They are especially prone to hoof and leg infections since they are in pens and prevented from moving around. Simply on the basis of avoiding cruelty to animals you should avoid processed Milk from factories.

On the other hand, Cows allowed to pasture and are fed their natural diet of grass and hay live about 14 years. Their waste is not full of the same toxic bacteria as confined grain fed Cows. In India, Cow dung is used as an antiseptic agent. Grass feeding reduces E-coli to nearly zero. Cows raised for meat have E-coli contamination reduced by 80% when they are allowed out of confinement for just 20% of their time. Cows pastured on grass 100% of the time have no E-coli either in their milk or meat.

The Dairy Industry is rich and powerful. They own Professors and Government officials. There is a revolving door between the Dairy industry and the Government positions that regulate them. Agriculture and Dairy Professors are almost always being paid with grants from the Food Industry.

People are suffering from diseases caused by refined foods and the absence of Wholesome Real Food, such as Raw Milk. Obesity, Diabetes and Cancer abound in the population but were unheard of before we were told that Real Food was bad and convenient Processed food was good.

Millions upon Millions of people consume Real Unprocessed Milk. It is one of the best foods you can consume. It is perfectly safe if purchased from a farm that Grass feeds their Cows, unconfined and clean. Pasteurized Milk comes from sick cows, fed  unnatural diets and pumped full of antibiotics and hormones.

I strongly suggest reading "The Untold Story of Milk" before trying to dissuade people from useing it. You should also watch the moive "Food Inc".

http://www.realmilk.com/rawmilkoverview.html

http://www.realmilk.com/ppt/index.html

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/ResponsetoMarlerListofStudies.pdf
Ok, Marc.  I read your articles.  Now read a few of the recent peer-reviewed, scientific journal articles on the health risks associated with consumption of unpasteurized milk products:
  
1. LeJeune JT and Rajala-Schultz.  Unpasteurized Milk: A Continued Public Health Threat.  Clinical
Infectious Diseases.  2009;48:93-100.
2. Bradley J, Pickering L, Jareb J.  Advise families against giving children unpasteurized milk.  AAP
News.  American Academy of Pediatrics.  29(12).
3. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Campylobacter jejuni infection associated with
unpasteurized milk and cheese – Kansas, 2007.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2009 Jan
2; 57(51):1377-9.
4. Ramos, et al.  Non-imported brucellosis outbreak from unpasteurized raw milk in Moroccan
immigrants in Spain. Epidemiology and Infection.  2008 Nov; 136(11): 1552-5.
5. Scavia, et al.  Enteroaggregative Escherichia coli associated with a foodborne outbreak of
gastroenteritis.  Journal of Medical Microbiology.  2008 Sep; 57(9): 1141-6.
6. Clauss HB and Lorber B.  Central nervous system infection with Listeria monocytogenes.  Current
Infectious Disease Reports.  2008 Jul; 10(4): 300-6.
7. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Escherichia coli 0157:H7 infections in children
associated with raw milk and raw colostrum from cows--California, 2006.  Morbidity and Mortality
Weekly Report.  2008 Jun 13; 57(23):625-8.
8. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Outbreak of multidrug-resistant Salmonella enterica
serotype Newport infections associated with consumption of unpasteurized Mexican-style aged
cheese--Illinois, March 2006-April 2007.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2008 Apr
25;57(16):432-5.
9. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Salmonella typhimurium infection associated with raw
milk and cheese consumption--Pennsylvania, 2007.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2007
Nov 9;56(44):1161-4.
10. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Escherichia coli O157:H7 infection associated with
drinking raw milk--Washington and Oregon, November-December 2005.  Morbidity and Mortality
Weekly Report.  2007 Mar 2;56   8 :165-7.  
11. Schlesser J, et al.  Survival of a five-strain cocktail of Escherichia coli O157:H7 during the 60-day
aging period of cheddar cheese made from unpasteurized milk.  Journal of Food Protection.  2006
May;69(5):990-8.
12. Schildt, et al.  Long-lasting Campylobacter jejuni contamination of milk associated with
gastrointestinal illness in a farming family.  Epidemiology and Infection.  2006 Apr;134(2):401-5.
13. Oliver, et al.  Foodborne pathogens in milk and the dairy farm environment: food safety and public
health implications.  Foodborne Pathogens and Disease.  2005 Summer;2(2):115-29.
14. Honish, et al.  An outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 hemorrhagic colitis associated with unpasteurized
gouda cheese.  2005 May-Jun;96(3):182-4.
15. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Multistate outbreak of Salmonella serotype
typhimurium infections associated with drinking unpasteurized milk--Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and
Tennessee, 2002-2003.  Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.  2003 Jul 4;52(26):613-5.
16. Allerberger, et al.  Hemolytic-uremic syndrome associated with enterohemorrhagic Escherichia coli
O26:H infection and consumption of unpasteurized cow's milk.  International Journal of Infectious
Diseases.  2003 Mar;7(1):42-5.
17. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  Outbreak of Campylobacter jejuni infections associated
with drinking unpasteurized milk procured through a cow-leasing program--Wisconsin, 2001.  2002
Jun 28;51(25):548-9.
18. DeValk, et al.  A community--wide outbreak of Salmonella enterica serotype Typhimurium infection
associated with eating a raw milk soft cheese in France.  Epidemiology and Infections.  2000
Feb;124(1):1-7.
-------------------
Suggesting that the Mayo Clinic supports the consumption of unpasteurized milk is incorrect and potentially dangerous.  Here is the Mayo Clinic's opinion of consuming unpasteurized milk.
www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-poisoning/ds00981/dsection=causes
www.mayoclinic.com/health/listeria-infection/.../dsection=prevention
www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy-nutrition/pr00109

Ytterbium has an excellent suggestion; drink pasteurized milk from grass fed cows.

You are being a SOP for greedy dark forces that only care about profits and not your helath. They have reduced animals to "Production Units" and want to make you into a "Consuming Unit".

The Dairy and Food Industry is a near Monopoly. They want to totally control the food supply and give us no choices. They have billions of dollars to spend on studies that show what they need them to show. As I have already posted, they don't stand up to scrutiny.

The fact is, Raw Milk has a far lower incidence of causing illness than many foods we already buy at the store. It's lower than Deli-Meat and certainly lower than spinach which recently poisoned many people is a recent outbreak of E-Coli. Wher are th 20 articles about Deli Meat? Why is it still on the shelves?

So then you have to ask yourself why has Raw Milk been singled out as uniquely dangerous when it clearly is not... One more time: THE INCIDENCEOF RAW MILK CAUSING ILLNESS IS LOWER THAN MANY FOODS YOU ALREADT EAT

The answer is simple, the Food Industry is greedy They want the long shelf life of boiled Milk (six months) so they can ship it long distances. This is  big money to them.

So please try to calm down. What you are doing is like trying to scare people from eating spinach. You have gone over to the Dark
Side..Try to snap out of it. Smiley

http://www.westonaprice.org/Milk-It-Does-a-Body-Good.html
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 06:03:22 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2010, 07:17:24 PM »

1. LeJeune JT and Rajala-Schultz.  Unpasteurized Milk: A Continued Public Health Threat.  Clinical Infectious Diseases.  2009;48:93-100.

So I picked out your first citation above and played Google Detective. I followed the Circular Vite for Professor Rajala-Schultz ( Dr. LeJune is her collaborator ). I saw where they work at The College of Veterinary Medicine in Ohio.

I then clicked on a list of her studies. Several are funded by the Ohio Dairy Producers Association.

Remember how I warned earlier about Anti-Raw Milk studies by  Professors beholden to the Dairy Industry ? Here is a statement by this Dairy Industry Association right on their web page.

 Raw Milk
ODPA believes that the sales of raw milk should be banned at all levels. It is currently banned at the interstate commerce, but still permitted under the intra state level. It is simply a matter of food safety.

So this professor is in the pocket of the Ohio Dairy Producers Association that funds many of her studies. The Ohio Dairy Industry has a huge economic interest in Pasteurized Milk.. The Ohio Dairy Producers Association has a pre-determined stand on Raw Milk ( see above).. They fund Dr.  Rajala-Schultz . Dr. Rajala-Schultz churns out warnings about the dangers of Raw Milk...............Go figure

http://www.ohiodairyproducers.org/update.html




 http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/PaiviRajala-Schultz.htm
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« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2010, 08:03:48 PM »

1. LeJeune JT and Rajala-Schultz.  Unpasteurized Milk: A Continued Public Health Threat.  Clinical Infectious Diseases.  2009;48:93-100.

So I picked out your first citation above and played Google Detective. I followed the Circular Vite for Professor Rajala-Schultz ( Dr. LeJune is her collaborator ). I saw where they work at The College of Veterinary Medicine in Ohio.

I then clicked on a list of her studies. Several are funded by the Ohio Dairy Producers Association.

Remember how I warned earlier about Anti-Raw Milk studies by  Professors beholden to the Dairy Industry ? Here is a statement by this Dairy Industry Association right on their web page.

 Raw Milk
ODPA believes that the sales of raw milk should be banned at all levels. It is currently banned at the interstate commerce, but still permitted under the intra state level. It is simply a matter of food safety.

So this professor is in the pocket of the Ohio Dairy Producers Association that funds many of her studies. The Ohio Dairy Industry has a huge economic interest in Pasteurized Milk.. The Ohio Dairy Producers Association has a pre-determined stand on Raw Milk ( see above).. They fund Dr.  Rajala-Schultz . Dr. Rajala-Schultz churns out warnings about the dangers of Raw Milk...............Go figure

http://www.ohiodairyproducers.org/update.html




 http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/PaiviRajala-Schultz.htm
IMO, you should copy all the peer reviewed, scientific journal articles I posted and keep them on the back of your toilet tank.  When you are having severe diarrhea from bacteria-infected unpasteurized milk, you can study them. Wink 
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« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2010, 08:36:42 PM »

1. LeJeune JT and Rajala-Schultz.  Unpasteurized Milk: A Continued Public Health Threat.  Clinical Infectious Diseases.  2009;48:93-100.

So I picked out your first citation above and played Google Detective. I followed the Circular Vite for Professor Rajala-Schultz ( Dr. LeJune is her collaborator ). I saw where they work at The College of Veterinary Medicine in Ohio.

I then clicked on a list of her studies. Several are funded by the Ohio Dairy Producers Association.

Remember how I warned earlier about Anti-Raw Milk studies by  Professors beholden to the Dairy Industry ? Here is a statement by this Dairy Industry Association right on their web page.

 Raw Milk
ODPA believes that the sales of raw milk should be banned at all levels. It is currently banned at the interstate commerce, but still permitted under the intra state level. It is simply a matter of food safety.

So this professor is in the pocket of the Ohio Dairy Producers Association that funds many of her studies. The Ohio Dairy Industry has a huge economic interest in Pasteurized Milk.. The Ohio Dairy Producers Association has a pre-determined stand on Raw Milk ( see above).. They fund Dr.  Rajala-Schultz . Dr. Rajala-Schultz churns out warnings about the dangers of Raw Milk...............Go figure

http://www.ohiodairyproducers.org/update.html




 http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/PaiviRajala-Schultz.htm
IMO, you should copy all the peer reviewed, scientific journal articles I posted and keep them on the back of your toilet tank.  When you are having severe diarrhea from bacteria-infected unpasteurized milk, you can study them. Wink 

Silly ms.hoorah, don't you know that your medical licence is invalid because you obtained it from a university that buys pasteurised milk for its cafeteria? Grin Roll Eyes

You know, what really gets me about these hippies is that they are never content to make health decisions for themselves. It'd be one thing if they were only destroying their own bodies with questionable practices based on a little out-of-context science and a lot of fearmongering and conspiracy theory. But no, they can't stop there. They won't rest until all of us practice and preach the same crap they do. Or, in this case, the same diarrhoea they do.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 08:38:20 PM by ytterbiumanalyst » Logged

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« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2010, 10:15:48 PM »

Not to interrupt the friendly conversation  Tongue  but here's an ultra-important topic.  It seems like every time I buy pears, at least one of them gets terribly damaged by the time I get home. Tomatoes are fine. So are peaches, plums, and all sorts of other fruits which I might expect to get similarly damaged. But with pears, it's like I am cursed. Now, I'm sure that one person will chime in saying that I shouldn't eat them because of pesticides, and another person will say that there is a conspiracy by big fruit to produce pears prone to damage so that people will buy more pears, while others will argue endlessly over which variety of pear is the best tasting or most nutritious. But honestly, I just want to know if it's just me with this problem or what? Am I just a heavy handed oaf or something?  Grin
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« Reply #152 on: February 08, 2010, 10:20:18 PM »

I use soy or rice milk, less fat and no cholesterol, two big reasons for me.
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« Reply #153 on: February 08, 2010, 10:29:01 PM »

I was going to admit to drinking soy juice milk, but I didn't want to gross people out. I know the feelings of some people about it in these parts*. Wink Honestly though, I get the "Very Vanilla" soy milk, and it tastes perfectly fine. *shrugs* And besides that, I still end up drinking a gallon to a gallon and a half of standard 2% milk each week anyway. But what does rice milk taste like?

*It's also sort of funny seeing some of the conversations about soy protein on body building forums. "OMG guyz!!1! Soy protein will turn u into womenz!"
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 10:30:49 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #154 on: February 08, 2010, 10:31:15 PM »

Rice.

Actually, soy milk is a good alternative for Orthodox Christians during fasts, as well as for Jews tryting to observe kashrut.
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« Reply #155 on: February 08, 2010, 10:32:41 PM »

So it's not just a clever name? Somehow I don't think I'll be trying it any time soon...
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« Reply #156 on: February 08, 2010, 10:33:15 PM »

So it's not just a clever name?

no.
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« Reply #157 on: February 08, 2010, 10:57:18 PM »

1. LeJeune JT and Rajala-Schultz.  Unpasteurized Milk: A Continued Public Health Threat.  Clinical Infectious Diseases.  2009;48:93-100.

So I picked out your first citation above and played Google Detective. I followed the Circular Vite for Professor Rajala-Schultz ( Dr. LeJune is her collaborator ). I saw where they work at The College of Veterinary Medicine in Ohio.

I then clicked on a list of her studies. Several are funded by the Ohio Dairy Producers Association.

Remember how I warned earlier about Anti-Raw Milk studies by  Professors beholden to the Dairy Industry ? Here is a statement by this Dairy Industry Association right on their web page.

 Raw Milk
ODPA believes that the sales of raw milk should be banned at all levels. It is currently banned at the interstate commerce, but still permitted under the intra state level. It is simply a matter of food safety.

So this professor is in the pocket of the Ohio Dairy Producers Association that funds many of her studies. The Ohio Dairy Industry has a huge economic interest in Pasteurized Milk.. The Ohio Dairy Producers Association has a predetermined stand on Raw Milk ( see above).. They fund Dr.  Rajala-Schultz . Dr. Rajala-Schultz churns out warnings about the dangers of Raw Milk...............Go figure

http://www.ohiodairyproducers.org/update.html




 http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/PaiviRajala-Schultz.htm
IMO, you should copy all the peer reviewed, scientific journal articles I posted and keep them on the back of your toilet tank.  When you are having severe diarrhea from bacteria-infected unpasteurized milk, you can study them. Wink 


LOL..That's funny..Anyway, God bless you for being impressed by all that. It's really cute.

IMHO, the Food industry is shockingly corrupt. Studies are funded by people like the Dairy Association that have a vested interest in a certain outcome. Youre okay with that?

As for peer review, that is a nonpolitical process. Was the math done right? Was the study done under proper protocols? It does not deal with the issue I am concerned with.

You can get sick from unpasteurized Milk.. You can get sick from Pasteurized Milk.. You can get sick from spinach and salami. You can do a study showing how any of those foods can become contaminated. It will pass peer review. You can get sick just exactly in the way the study shows.

The question is, does Raw Milk pose a UNIQUE DANGER as opposed to the other foods we all eat every day. The answer is that it does not. The reason we hear about the dangers of Raw Milk even though less people get sick from it than many other common foods has to do with the profits of the Dairy Industry and no other reason..  

The Dairy Industry makes big profits from the long shelf life of Boiled Milk and they are able to feed their  Cows swill and keep them in pens all their lives. It doesn't matter how filthy the conditions are or how many Hormones or Antibiotics they pump into them because the Milk will eventually get boiled. The low quality of the Milk and the fact that it has been stripped of it's nutrition is of no concern. They have convinced you to eat crap and smile while you are consuming  it.  

The Food Industry is corrupt, they regulate themselves. Government officials come from the giant Food Monopolies and then go back again . They buy studies with their own money and get the results the need to continue their scare tactics.

I think it's hilarious that I could pick out a citation randomly and find out that the resarcher does studies for the Dairy Industry.
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« Reply #158 on: February 08, 2010, 11:15:17 PM »

The fish industry was telling the FDA how much fish we should eat so as to not get mercury contamination according to CNN once I saw.
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« Reply #159 on: February 10, 2010, 11:21:46 AM »

Not to interrupt the friendly conversation  Tongue  but here's an ultra-important topic.  It seems like every time I buy pears, at least one of them gets terribly damaged by the time I get home. Tomatoes are fine. So are peaches, plums, and all sorts of other fruits which I might expect to get similarly damaged. But with pears, it's like I am cursed. Now, I'm sure that one person will chime in saying that I shouldn't eat them because of pesticides, and another person will say that there is a conspiracy by big fruit to produce pears prone to damage so that people will buy more pears, while others will argue endlessly over which variety of pear is the best tasting or most nutritious. But honestly, I just want to know if it's just me with this problem or what? Am I just a heavy handed oaf or something?  Grin
I've noticed people would rather argue about their conspiracy theories than answer a simple question, so I'll give it a shot.

I would suspect it has to do with the pears being more ripe than those other fruits. It really depends on how far they're shipped. Yes, there are refrigerated trucks and such, but most fruit, by the time it's processed and shipped, is already about a week old if it comes from California or South America (obviously less time for Californian fruit if you live in California). Ripe fruit is more likely to bruise.
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« Reply #160 on: February 10, 2010, 02:58:10 PM »

Not to interrupt the friendly conversation  Tongue  but here's an ultra-important topic.  It seems like every time I buy pears, at least one of them gets terribly damaged by the time I get home. Tomatoes are fine. So are peaches, plums, and all sorts of other fruits which I might expect to get similarly damaged. But with pears, it's like I am cursed. Now, I'm sure that one person will chime in saying that I shouldn't eat them because of pesticides, and another person will say that there is a conspiracy by big fruit to produce pears prone to damage so that people will buy more pears, while others will argue endlessly over which variety of pear is the best tasting or most nutritious. But honestly, I just want to know if it's just me with this problem or what? Am I just a heavy handed oaf or something?  Grin
I've noticed people would rather argue about their conspiracy theories

 

Take a deep breath:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKYyD14d_0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmF_erEv1o&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cb6HwzCkEs&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eBJQ-bajns&feature=fvw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5bAfPsUAb8&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2vARSdg7bw&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr5HQrgg9mM


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« Reply #161 on: February 10, 2010, 04:27:06 PM »

I've seen both Food, Inc. and King Corn, and enjoyed them both. I realise that there are problems in the food industry, and we try to buy local foods whenever possible. I just don't buy into your conspiracy theory. People demand of corporations cheap food. The corporations persuade people that they want cheap food. It's a two-way street. Yes, ultimately the profit of a few companies has caused a lot of harm to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean the system we have right now was thought up in a smoke-filled room. It's just the system that brings the most profit to a few people--which is of course the end result of capitalism.

I'm not your enemy. You seem to think I munch Doritos and slurp gallons of Coke. Actually, we cook everything from scratch--and that scratch being locally grown fruits and vegetables, which we freeze for the winter; locally made breads and cheeses during the summer (unfortunately unavailable to us in the winter); and hormone-free local meats, again which we freeze for winter. The few things we buy from a supermarket tend to be items like seafood and citrus fruits that cannot be grown in our climate, and breads and cheeses in winter. There are many more people who eat terribly who would be better suited for your message.
 
If what you're preaching works for you, good. I don't mind that you've chosen it for yourself. What irks me is that you won't rest until everyone agrees with you. And as not everyone is going to agree with you, you won't let this issue rest. You've said more than enough about it, and we're wanting to discuss some other nutritional issues, such as the pear issue above. It's hard to discuss these when you drown us out.
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« Reply #162 on: February 10, 2010, 05:30:32 PM »

Internationally-renowned food safety expert, Tommy Flanagan says, “Human beings morph into reptilian humanoids called Anunnaki with the consumption of raw milk.  Older reptilian humanoids from the planet Drako arrive daily  to abduct raw milk drinking humans and-and-and that’s why you don’t see any of these morphing humans.  Yeah....that’s the ticket!”

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/tommy-in-jail/281003/
--------------------
To stay on topic, I have no idea why pears are so easily bruised.  All colors of pears seem to bruise easily at my house.
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« Reply #163 on: February 10, 2010, 11:32:51 PM »

 and then make ad hominem remarks..
I've seen both Food, Inc. and King Corn, and enjoyed them both. I realise that there are problems in the food industry, and we try to buy local foods whenever possible. I just don't buy into your conspiracy theory. People demand of corporations cheap food. The corporations persuade people that they want cheap food. It's a two-way street. Yes, ultimately the profit of a few companies has caused a lot of harm to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean the system we have right now was thought up in a smoke-filled room. It's just the system that brings the most profit to a few people--which is of course the end result of capitalism.

I'm not your enemy. You seem to think I munch Doritos and slurp gallons of Coke. Actually, we cook everything from scratch--and that scratch being locally grown fruits and vegetables, which we freeze for the winter; locally made breads and cheeses during the summer (unfortunately unavailable to us in the winter); and hormone-free local meats, again which we freeze for winter. The few things we buy from a supermarket tend to be items like seafood and citrus fruits that cannot be grown in our climate, and breads and cheeses in winter. There are many more people who eat terribly who would be better suited for your message.
 
If what you're preaching works for you, good. I don't mind that you've chosen it for yourself. What irks me is that you won't rest until everyone agrees with you. And as not everyone is going to agree with you, you won't let this issue rest. You've said more than enough about it, and we're wanting to discuss some other nutritional issues, such as the pear issue above. It's hard to discuss these when you drown us out.

I was not aware of any conspiracy theories. Please explain. I haven't even vaguely hinted that the system is cooked up in back rooms. I have said the Food System is corrupt and is dominated by a handful of Companies. That's a fact. Please read for content.

Where do you get off saying I "won't rest" until everone agrees with me? These are boards where you write stuff.. No one can get drowned out. If someone says Raw Milk is dangerous, I will reply and share information. No drowning out is involved or even possible... Maybe you should work on your debate and writing skills if you think your own points aren't convincing. But they certainly do get posted, so you have the same shot everyone else has.

I think you have some sort of weird personal problem with me that has carried over from other threads. You have done this before. You fish around for all  kinds things to accuse me of and then make ad hominem remarks..
 
Please back off.. Thank you.
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« Reply #164 on: February 11, 2010, 01:06:10 AM »

See I have the opposite problem with pears. Every time I buy them they are dry, hard, and tasteless. It's come to the point where I simply won't buy them anymore.
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« Reply #165 on: February 11, 2010, 02:51:25 PM »

I also would like  to mention something about Homogenization of Milk and also Skim Milk.

Milk fat (cream) occurs naturally in large globules. That is why when left to itself, the cream will separate from the liquid and rise to the top of the bottle.  Back when most milk was not homogenized ( I am old enough to remember that) the amount of cream at the top of the bottle was one way consumers could judge the quality of the milk between Dairies ( brands). You could look at the bottle and see that one brand had far more cream in the milk than another.

The other issue is a health concern . The fat is broken down by applying extreme steam pressure and forced through tiny holes. This produces smaller globs of fat that will stay suspended. When the fat is broken down like this it is absorbed differently when you digest it and may cause you some long term problems ( like Heart Disease).

I found a good explanation on-line:

Homogenization:
Homogenization is another process which denatures the natural fat in milk. This is done purely for aesthetic reasons. The industry felt no one really likes to have milk which "separates". Fresh raw milk separates. The fat rises to the top. Homogenization forces the milk, by extreme pressure, through tiny holes which breaks up the normally large fat molecules into tiny ones, which in this denatured state, stay suspended in the milk. Unfortunately, this unnatural fat is easily absorbed into the blood stream, carrying with it the xanthine oxidase. In un-homogenized milk the xanthine oxidase and large fat molecules are normally passed through the digestive track, unabsorbed.

http://www.selfgrowthurway.com/2008/07/why-we-should-avoid-homogenized-milk.html

Of course the other factor is that many people believe that they should be eating Low Fat Diets ( another  topic for another time:). The Dairy Industry loves this idea because the sale of Skim Milk is far more profitable for them then selling Whole Milk. When they skim off the cream, they can use it to make other products, thus multiplying their profit potential. However, skim milk has several hidden dangers past the question of wether or not Low Fat Diets are wise to follow.  

The traditional name for Skim Milk is "Blue Jack". The reason for the name is that milk that is skimmed of it's cream turns Blue, not White. No one would likely buy Blue Milk so the Industry adds condensed powered milk to artificially turn the color back to a naturally looking White. Powered Milk may have all kinds of adverse health consequences most noteable, irritation of artery walls causing inflammation.

Skim Milk may also cause weight gain and loss of calcium. In the absence of sufficient Fat the milk is absorbed abnormally. It's ironic that people who want to be healthier have been convinced that Skim Milk will help them when in fact it is particularly bad for the very health issues, weight gain and heart disease, that these people are most concerned with. The Dairy Industry has been successful in keeping the addition of  powdered milk off the label of Skim Milk.

  
http://www.westonaprice.org/FAQ-Dairy.html

 http://www.westonaprice.org/Correction-to-Whole-Milk-Information-Alert.html
    
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 03:15:27 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #166 on: February 11, 2010, 04:41:12 PM »

I also would like  to mention something about Homogenization of Milk and also Skim Milk.

Milk fat (cream) occurs naturally in large globules. That is why when left to itself, the cream will separate from the liquid and rise to the top of the bottle.  Back when most milk was not homogenized ( I am old enough to remember that) the amount of cream at the top of the bottle was one way consumers could judge the quality of the milk between Dairies ( brands). You could look at the bottle and see that one brand had far more cream in the milk than another.

The other issue is a health concern . The fat is broken down by applying extreme steam pressure and forced through tiny holes. This produces smaller globs of fat that will stay suspended. When the fat is broken down like this it is absorbed differently when you digest it and may cause you some long term problems ( like Heart Disease).

I found a good explanation on-line:

Homogenization:
Homogenization is another process which denatures the natural fat in milk. This is done purely for aesthetic reasons. The industry felt no one really likes to have milk which "separates". Fresh raw milk separates. The fat rises to the top. Homogenization forces the milk, by extreme pressure, through tiny holes which breaks up the normally large fat molecules into tiny ones, which in this denatured state, stay suspended in the milk. Unfortunately, this unnatural fat is easily absorbed into the blood stream, carrying with it the xanthine oxidase. In un-homogenized milk the xanthine oxidase and large fat molecules are normally passed through the digestive track, unabsorbed.
Uhhhhh....your last statement doesn't help your thesis.  This statement shows that raw milk is dangerous.

Xanthine oxidase is a very necessary enzyme in the human body.  In fact there is a disease called Xanthine Oxidase Deficiency.  Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a cause of nephropathy-kidney damage. I am too lazy right now to spend 10 minutes to go into my Parallels Desktop to get to the univ.'s health science center library to pull up 700 articles on this and you wouldn’t change your mind anyways. Please do some scientific research using sources outside of raw milk vendors.   

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« Reply #167 on: February 11, 2010, 05:10:57 PM »

I also would like  to mention something about Homogenization of Milk and also Skim Milk.

Milk fat (cream) occurs naturally in large globules. That is why when left to itself, the cream will separate from the liquid and rise to the top of the bottle.  Back when most milk was not homogenized ( I am old enough to remember that) the amount of cream at the top of the bottle was one way consumers could judge the quality of the milk between Dairies ( brands). You could look at the bottle and see that one brand had far more cream in the milk than another.

The other issue is a health concern . The fat is broken down by applying extreme steam pressure and forced through tiny holes. This produces smaller globs of fat that will stay suspended. When the fat is broken down like this it is absorbed differently when you digest it and may cause you some long term problems ( like Heart Disease).

I found a good explanation on-line:

Homogenization:
Homogenization is another process which denatures the natural fat in milk. This is done purely for aesthetic reasons. The industry felt no one really likes to have milk which "separates". Fresh raw milk separates. The fat rises to the top. Homogenization forces the milk, by extreme pressure, through tiny holes which breaks up the normally large fat molecules into tiny ones, which in this denatured state, stay suspended in the milk. Unfortunately, this unnatural fat is easily absorbed into the blood stream, carrying with it the anthine oxidase. In un-homogenized milk the xanthine oxidase and large fat molecules are normally passed through the digestive track, unabsorbed.
Uhhhhh....your last statement doesn't help your thesis.  This statement shows that raw milk is dangerous.

Xanthine oxidase is a very necessary enzyme in the human body.  In fact there is a disease called Xanthine Oxidase Deficiency.  Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a cause of nephropathy-kidney damage. I am too lazy right now to spend 10 minutes to go into my Parallels Desktop to get to the univ.'s health science center library to pull up 700 articles on this and you wouldn’t change your mind anyways. Please do some scientific research using sf raw milk vendorsy.   





Golly, you're really fishing with a long pole.

Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a GENETIC DISORDER. Pasteurization is relatively new. Were there ever outbreaks of xanthine oxidase deficiency LOL? Millions upon millions of people around the World drink Unprocessed Milk. Are there outbreaks somewhere you can point to? Is this a problem  in India? Of course not.

Natural Milk is a nearly perfect food. You can live exclusively on it if need be and there are people who do exactly that for a variety of reasons.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthinuria

Xanthinuria, also known as xanthine oxidase deficiency, is a rare genetic disorder causing the accumulation of xanthine. It is caused by a deficiency of the enzyme xanthine oxidase.

It was first formally characterized in 1954.[1]

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« Reply #168 on: February 11, 2010, 05:15:59 PM »

Huh, so I'm not alone with the bruising pears, but some people have the opposite experience.  Huh  I used to be an assistant manager at a small farm market , so I'm not completely unfamiliar with handling fruit, but really I would think that most people would already know intuitively about that kind of thing.
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« Reply #169 on: February 11, 2010, 05:58:03 PM »

I also would like  to mention something about Homogenization of Milk and also Skim Milk.

Milk fat (cream) occurs naturally in large globules. That is why when left to itself, the cream will separate from the liquid and rise to the top of the bottle.  Back when most milk was not homogenized ( I am old enough to remember that) the amount of cream at the top of the bottle was one way consumers could judge the quality of the milk between Dairies ( brands). You could look at the bottle and see that one brand had far more cream in the milk than another.

The other issue is a health concern . The fat is broken down by applying extreme steam pressure and forced through tiny holes. This produces smaller globs of fat that will stay suspended. When the fat is broken down like this it is absorbed differently when you digest it and may cause you some long term problems ( like Heart Disease).

I found a good explanation on-line:

Homogenization:
Homogenization is another process which denatures the natural fat in milk. This is done purely for aesthetic reasons. The industry felt no one really likes to have milk which "separates". Fresh raw milk separates. The fat rises to the top. Homogenization forces the milk, by extreme pressure, through tiny holes which breaks up the normally large fat molecules into tiny ones, which in this denatured state, stay suspended in the milk. Unfortunately, this unnatural fat is easily absorbed into the blood stream, carrying with it the anthine oxidase. In un-homogenized milk the xanthine oxidase and large fat molecules are normally passed through the digestive track, unabsorbed.
Uhhhhh....your last statement doesn't help your thesis.  This statement shows that raw milk is dangerous.

Xanthine oxidase is a very necessary enzyme in the human body.  In fact there is a disease called Xanthine Oxidase Deficiency.  Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a cause of nephropathy-kidney damage. I am too lazy right now to spend 10 minutes to go into my Parallels Desktop to get to the univ.'s health science center library to pull up 700 articles on this and you wouldn’t change your mind anyways. Please do some scientific research using sf raw milk vendorsy.  





Golly, you're really fishing with a long pole.

Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a GENETIC DISORDER. Pasteurization is relatively new. Were there ever outbreaks of xanthine oxidase deficiency LOL? Millions upon millions of people around the World drink Unprocessed Milk. Are there outbreaks somewhere you can point to? Is this a problem  in India? Of course not.

Natural Milk is a nearly perfect food. You can live exclusively on it if need be and there are people who do exactly that for a variety of reasons.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthinuria

Xanthinuria, also known as xanthine oxidase deficiency, is a rare genetic disorder causing the accumulation of xanthine. It is caused by a deficiency of the enzyme xanthine oxidase.

It was first formally characterized in 1954.[1]


Your post was touting the benefits of less xanthine oxidase when this is a necessary enzyme.  The only scientifically accepted benefit of decreased blood levels of xanthine oxidase are for persons suffering from gout.   (There is a much safer method to assist people with gout rather than encouraging them to drink pathogen-infected raw milk.  It is called Allopurinol.)

« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 06:04:15 PM by ms.hoorah » Logged
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« Reply #170 on: February 11, 2010, 06:03:27 PM »

I also would like  to mention something about Homogenization of Milk and also Skim Milk.

Skim Milk may also cause weight gain and loss of calcium. In the absence of sufficient Fat the milk is absorbed abnormally. It's ironic that people who want to be healthier have been convinced that Skim Milk will help them when in fact it is particularly bad for the very health issues, weight gain and heart disease, that these people are most concerned with. The Dairy Industry has been successful in keeping the addition of  powdered milk off the label of Skim Milk.

  
http://www.westonaprice.org/FAQ-Dairy.html

 http://www.westonaprice.org/Correction-to-Whole-Milk-Information-Alert.html
    
Incorrect.  The calcium is not contained in the fat portion of milk, so removing the fat will not affect the calcium content. In fact, when you replace the fat portion that has been removed with an equal part of skimmed milk, you are actually increasing the calcium content. Therefore, one cup of skim or non-fat milk will have more calcium than one cup of whole milk because almost the entire cup of skim milk is made up of the calcium-containing portion.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002412.htm



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« Reply #171 on: February 11, 2010, 06:13:30 PM »

Has anyone heard of the miracle ph diet? The thesis is that many illnesses are caused by too much bad acid and a low ph level in the body? The cure is to eat a lot of vegetables and drink water with a high ph content?
http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Balance-Reclaim-Health/dp/0446536199/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265926182&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Weight-Loss-Chemistry/dp/0446694703/ref=pd_sim_b_2
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« Reply #172 on: February 12, 2010, 12:15:04 AM »

I also would like  to mention something about Homogenization of Milk and also Skim Milk.

Milk fat (cream) occurs naturally in large globules. That is why when left to itself, the cream will separate from the liquid and rise to the top of the bottle.  Back when most milk was not homogenized ( I am old enough to remember that) the amount of cream at the top of the bottle was one way consumers could judge the quality of the milk between Dairies ( brands). You could look at the bottle and see that one brand had far more cream in the milk than another.

The other issue is a health concern . The fat is broken down by applying extreme steam pressure and forced through tiny holes. This produces smaller globs of fat that will stay suspended. When the fat is broken down like this it is absorbed differently when you digest it and may cause you some long term problems ( like Heart Disease).

I found a good explanation on-line:

Homogenization:
Homogenization is another process which denatures the natural fat in milk. This is done purely for aesthetic reasons. The industry felt no one really likes to have milk which "separates". Fresh raw milk separates. The fat rises to the top. Homogenization forces the milk, by extreme pressure, through tiny holes which breaks up the normally large fat molecules into tiny ones, which in this denatured state, stay suspended in the milk. Unfortunately, this unnatural fat is easily absorbed into the blood stream, carrying with it the anthine oxidase. In un-homogenized milk the xanthine oxidase and large fat molecules are normally passed through the digestive track, unabsorbed.
Uhhhhh....your last statement doesn't help your thesis.  This statement shows that raw milk is dangerous.

Xanthine oxidase is a very necessary enzyme in the human body.  In fact there is a disease called Xanthine Oxidase Deficiency.  Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a cause of nephropathy-kidney damage. I am too lazy right now to spend 10 minutes to go into my Parallels Desktop to get to the univ.'s health science center library to pull up 700 articles on this and you wouldn’t change your mind anyways. Please do some scientific research using sf raw milk vendorsy.  





Golly, you're really fishing with a long pole.

Xanthine oxidase deficiency is a GENETIC DISORDER. Pasteurization is relatively new. Were there ever outbreaks of xanthine oxidase deficiency LOL? Millions upon millions of people around the World drink Unprocessed Milk. Are there outbreaks somewhere you can point to? Is this a problem  in India? Of course not.

Natural Milk is a nearly perfect food. You can live exclusively on it if need be and there are people who do exactly that for a variety of reasons.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthinuria

Xanthinuria, also known as xanthine oxidase deficiency, is a rare genetic disorder causing the accumulation of xanthine. It is caused by a deficiency of the enzyme xanthine oxidase.

It was first formally characterized in 1954.[1]


Your post was touting the benefits of less xanthine oxidase when this is a necessary enzyme.  The only scientifically accepted benefit of decreased blood levels of xanthine oxidase are for persons suffering from gout.   (There is a much safer method to assist people with gout rather than encouraging them to drink pathogen-infected raw milk.  It is called Allopurinol.)



Well, no one wants you to drink something that is "pathogen infected". Fresh Raw Milk has  mechanisms that actally kill pathogens, unlike the neutered Boiled Milk.

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/PathogensinRawMilk.pdf


"That fresh raw milk has the properties to kill pathogens is

no urban legend; it is proven science"



Ted Beals, MS, MD, is retired from the University

of Michigan Medical School and Veterans Administration

Health Administration. A pathologist

with personal interest in dairy testing and safety

of milk, he has been presenting testimony on

dairy safety in North America for the last several

years. He and his wife Peggy Beals are members

of the Michigan Fresh Unprocessed Whole Milk

Workgroup


 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 12:18:43 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #173 on: February 12, 2010, 10:33:06 AM »

Has anyone heard of the miracle ph diet? The thesis is that many illnesses are caused by too much bad acid and a low ph level in the body? The cure is to eat a lot of vegetables and drink water with a high ph content?
http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Balance-Reclaim-Health/dp/0446536199/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265926182&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Weight-Loss-Chemistry/dp/0446694703/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Yeah, it's been around for 40 years. It won't so any more good now than it did in the '70s.
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« Reply #174 on: February 12, 2010, 12:52:57 PM »

Has anyone heard of the miracle ph diet? The thesis is that many illnesses are caused by too much bad acid and a low ph level in the body? The cure is to eat a lot of vegetables and drink water with a high ph content?
http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Balance-Reclaim-Health/dp/0446536199/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265926182&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Weight-Loss-Chemistry/dp/0446694703/ref=pd_sim_b_2
The basic premise of this diet is that high ph foods kill bacteria or viruses, but you cannot significantly alter the ph of the human body by consuming acidic foods.  Research acid/base balance in humans. 
http://www.acid-base.com/
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch159/ch159a.html

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« Reply #175 on: February 12, 2010, 01:21:20 PM »

Well, no one wants you to drink something that is "pathogen infected".
Yes...there is someone on this forum hawking raw milk....and it is you.

Fresh Raw Milk has  mechanisms that actally kill pathogens, unlike the neutered Boiled Milk.

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/PathogensinRawMilk.pdf


"That fresh raw milk has the properties to kill pathogens is

no urban legend; it is proven science"
I just posted 17 or 18 scientific studies showing that people became severely ill from drinking raw milk.
Ted Beals, MS, MD, is retired from the University

of Michigan Medical School and Veterans Administration

Health Administration. A pathologist

with personal interest in dairy testing and safety

of milk, he has been presenting testimony on

dairy safety in North America for the last several

years. He and his wife Peggy Beals are members

of the Michigan Fresh Unprocessed Whole Milk

Workgroup

Although you and Dr. Beals may be Salmonella Sams (those immune to Salmonella and other pathogens found in raw milk and are now carriers capable of spreading it to others), that doesn’t mean that promoting raw milk is a responsible thing to do.  There are members on this forum receiving chemotherapy. There are members are this forum that are diabetic.   There are members on this forum that have recently undergone surgery.  There are elderly members on this forum.  There are members who have small children on this forum.  All of these members or their children could be sickened or killed by drinking unpasteurized milk.  Do your research outside of those charging you enormous fees for a gallon of raw milk. What are you paying for a gallon a pathogen-rich raw milk?  $15-$30/gallon   (Hmmm...no wonder the raw milk vendors are vigorously advertising.)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 01:22:29 PM by ms.hoorah » Logged
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« Reply #176 on: February 12, 2010, 01:35:46 PM »

Well, no one wants you to drink something that is "pathogen infected".
Yes...there is someone on this forum hawking raw milk....and it is you.

Fresh Raw Milk has  mechanisms that actally kill pathogens, unlike the neutered Boiled Milk.

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/PathogensinRawMilk.pdf


"That fresh raw milk has the properties to kill pathogens is

no urban legend; it is proven science"
I just posted 17 or 18 scientific studies showing that people became severely ill from drinking raw milk.
Ted Beals, MS, MD, is retired from the University

of Michigan Medical School and Veterans Administration

Health Administration. A pathologist

with personal interest in dairy testing and safety

of milk, he has been presenting testimony on

dairy safety in North America for the last several

years. He and his wife Peggy Beals are members

of the Michigan Fresh Unprocessed Whole Milk

Workgroup

Although you and Dr. Beals may be Salmonella Sams (those immune to Salmonella and other pathogens found in raw milk and are now carriers capable of spreading it to others), that doesn’t mean that promoting raw milk is a responsible thing to do.  There are members on this forum receiving chemotherapy. There are members are this forum that are diabetic.   There are members on this forum that have recently undergone surgery.  There are elderly members on this forum.  There are members who have small children on this forum.  All of these members or their children could be sickened or killed by drinking unpasteurized milk.  Do your research outside of those charging you enormous fees for a gallon of raw milk. What are you paying for a gallon a pathogen-rich raw milk?  $15-$30/gallon   (Hmmm...no wonder the raw milk vendors are vigorously advertising.)


I know you are smart so I am wondering why you are having trouble wrapping your brain around this.

Here is my contention again: You can get sick from eating Raw Milk. The point is, serving for serving, the incidence of people getting sick from Raw Milk is the same or lower than most other foods that you are willing to consume regularly.

Therefore, the question becomes why is it banned and why does the Dairy Industry want it banned. Once again, Raw Milk is not uniquely dangerous but it is uniquely singled out  and made illegal or restricted in many places in the USA.

I believe the reason is purely economic. Raw Milk as an alternative threatens the Dairy Industry because of they way they want to raise their cows ( in confinement and filthy conditions etc etc.).

Why not boil Wine?. Pasteurization was invented to cleanse Wine  due to all the animal feces and other contaminants  that get into it. It ruined the Wine, so it was never done. Are you scared to drink Wine?

More later. I have to go dig out from the snow
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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #177 on: February 12, 2010, 01:51:33 PM »

Well, no one wants you to drink something that is "pathogen infected".
Yes...there is someone on this forum hawking raw milk....and it is you.
Yes, exactly. Marc, you're going beyond debate. You're selling something. When you try to sell something to people who aren't looking to buy anything, you're going to encounter the Telemarketer Effect. We're going to tune you out, make up a flimsy excuse, and tell you not to talk to us about it anymore. Why does this surprise you?

Quote from: ms.hoorah
Although you and Dr. Beals may be Salmonella Sams (those immune to Salmonella and other pathogens found in raw milk and are now carriers capable of spreading it to others), that doesn’t mean that promoting raw milk is a responsible thing to do.  There are members on this forum receiving chemotherapy. There are members are this forum that are diabetic.   There are members on this forum that have recently undergone surgery.  There are elderly members on this forum.  There are members who have small children on this forum.  All of these members or their children could be sickened or killed by drinking unpasteurized milk.
Yes. Giving advice like this over the Internet, not knowing people's medical history, is an extremely dangerous practice. Marc, you have provided us with more than enough information to make an informed decision. You're not going to sell some of us; it's just a fact of telemarketing. When I sold phone service, I'd sell about 2% of the people I called. Same rule applies here. It's just not worth trying to sell the other 98%. We just aren't interested in what you're selling.

Quote from: ms.hoorah
Do your research outside of those charging you enormous fees for a gallon of raw milk. What are you paying for a gallon a pathogen-rich raw milk?  $15-$30/gallon   (Hmmm...no wonder the raw milk vendors are vigorously advertising.)
Wow. Follow the money trail....

For my family, I choose to buy local pasteurized milk from grass-fed, free-range cows. I know they're free-range cows because I've seen where they live. I drive past the farm, and I see the cows in the fields eating grass. I pay about $4.50 a gallon for this milk. Yes, I could get it for about $3.50 if I bought the factory farmed milk, but I find it worth the extra dollar a gallon for the benefits: to my health and the health of my family; to the local economy; and to ethical agricultural practices. I don't need to pay ten dollars more to get these benefits. I have it all for $4.50, and I can feed that milk to my toddler.
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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
stanley123
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« Reply #178 on: February 12, 2010, 05:11:55 PM »

Has anyone heard of the miracle ph diet? The thesis is that many illnesses are caused by too much bad acid and a low ph level in the body? The cure is to eat a lot of vegetables and drink water with a high ph content?
http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Balance-Reclaim-Health/dp/0446536199/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265926182&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/pH-Miracle-Weight-Loss-Chemistry/dp/0446694703/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Yeah, it's been around for 40 years. It won't so any more good now than it did in the '70s.
The recommended diet appears to be a bit extreme in parts, but it has some good points, like eating a lot of vegetables.
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« Reply #179 on: February 12, 2010, 05:20:25 PM »

I use soy or rice milk, less fat and no cholesterol, two big reasons for me.

There are other options too, such as rice or almond milk; which might actually be healthier if one needed to be careful with soy.
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+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
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