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Author Topic: This is very interesting  (Read 3849 times) Average Rating: 0
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shanmo9
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« on: June 21, 2004, 11:05:33 AM »

 Wink I took this from another site (Irish Orthodox Web page)

How old is the Orthodox Faith?
( or why I converted)
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England, founded by Samuel Senbury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1606.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed Church, you recognize Michelis Jones as founder because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, New York, in 1829.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene, Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," or "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past hundred years.

If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

If you are Orthodox Christian, your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It has not changed since that time. Our church is now almost 2,000 years old and it is for this reason, that Orthodoxy, the Church of the Apostles and the Fathers is considered the true "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church."

This is the greatest legacy that we can pass on to the young people of the new millennium.

by Rev. Dr. Miltiades Efthimiou

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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2004, 11:50:36 AM »

I'm not sure if that's the original - the site could've taken it from another Orthodox site, but it is interesting to read nonetheless.
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2004, 12:15:30 PM »

yes indeed.  I read a similar one for the RCC, which conveniently left out the Orthodox Church.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2004, 01:11:49 PM »

Smiley I like that. Thanx for posting!
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hmmmm...
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2004, 04:18:16 PM »

As a friendly reminder this board is designed for Orthodox converts and discussion of issues pertaining to Orthodox converts.  This is NOT the forum to debate the Orthodox belief that we are the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."

Nektarios
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2004, 06:21:13 PM »

perhaps this should be moved to the Faith Issues section?

Joe Zollars
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Ben
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2004, 03:58:34 AM »

yes indeed.  I read a similar one for the RCC, which conveniently left out the Orthodox Church.

Joe Zollars

I was just going to say that! It is almost IDENTICAL to a list on a RC site, that does leave out the OC, and I notice that this list, the one posted in this thread, doesn't say WHO started the RCC. Hm, but I guess it would be almost impossible to blame the Great Schism all on one person.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2004, 03:59:11 AM by Ben » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2004, 04:13:06 AM »

yeah either east or west depending on your perspective it is imposible to pin it on one person.  

As a side note, I always wondered why the Roman one left out the part about Orthodoxy.

Joe  Zollars
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2004, 04:15:41 AM »

My guess is, the person who put together the Orthodox version did it in answer to the Roman Catholic one. As for why the Orthodox Church is left off of the Roman list, since I haven't read it, I can't say for sure. But its absence was clearly catalyst enough for someone to revamp the list from the Orthodox perspective. Smiley
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hmmmm...
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2004, 04:24:20 AM »

clearly it is because Rome doesn't know what to say to the Orthodox. Grin

Just kidding folks.  put the guns and pitch forks down.

JOe Zollars
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Ben
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2004, 04:26:51 AM »

yeah either east or west depending on your perspective it is imposible to pin it on one person.  

As a side note, I always wondered why the Roman one left out the part about Orthodoxy.

Joe  Zollars

I actually emailed the site I say it on, and they wouldn't answer why Orthodoxy wasn't listed, they just went on and on about being in union with the Chair of Peter, and provided good Catholic apologetic arguments for the Filioque, Papal Supremacy, etc.
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2004, 04:42:26 AM »

what site would that be?

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2004, 05:01:16 AM »

I'll have to dig up...its 3am..I don't have the time or the energy to do so....perhaps I'll get a chance later on today.
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2004, 06:16:42 AM »

I saw this list on a RC site, apparently it is also a tee-shirt. I also noticed that the RC version  left off the EO & OO churches.
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2004, 12:58:09 PM »

The "timeline" is a listing of  the dates of "foundation" of various Protestant and pseudo-Christian denominations originally prepared by Catholic apologists since their ministry, at least in the U.S., is primarily directed at Protestantism and vrious non-Christian communities.

Based on Catholic teaching, the Orthodox Churches belong to the universal Catholic Church, albeit "imperfect."  Thus, the listing of the Catholic Church (inclusive of all Apostolic Churches) as being founded by Jesus Christ in the year 33 A.D.

We do not refer to ourselves in official Church documents and in our daily lives as "Roman Catholics," simply as "Catholics."

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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2004, 07:13:53 PM »

Interesting Amadeus.  Looking at it that way it would make sense, I guess.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2004, 03:29:06 AM »

Yes, I assume the Catholic list was specificaly directed to Protestants, who seem to think they hold the original Christian faith.
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2004, 08:18:23 AM »

Most dont' think about it actually, from my experience.  I mean sure theres "Trail of Blood" but I rarely heard a sermon about how we were the original church.  

Actually when I talked to my old prot minister about it when I went RC, he didn't deny that they were very different from the original church.  But he said "The Church has to change to meet the needs of hte times."   What lunacy if you ask me.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2004, 09:18:54 AM »

Amadeus,

Quote
Based on Catholic teaching, the Orthodox Churches belong to the universal Catholic Church, albeit "imperfect."  Thus, the listing of the Catholic Church (inclusive of all Apostolic Churches) as being founded by Jesus Christ in the year 33 A.D.

Perhaps I am remembering wrong, but I recall a (perhaps older, pre-Vatican II style) version of this "list of churches" which did mention the Orthodox Church, pinning it's "origin" on Patriarch Michael Keroularios.

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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2004, 03:10:34 PM »

I've seen a similar timeline by a Roman Catholic website-I'll have to dig it up again-which did mention the Eastern Orthodox as being founded in 1054, not mentioning any particular founder.  

It was more of a bar graph/timeline where the protestant sects had tiny, insignificant bars corresponding to recent times, while the Orthodox bar went about mid-way, and the Catholic bar went impressively all the way across the page to Jesus Christ in 33 AD.

I will be the first to admit I don't know much history, but at that I had to cringe. :-

Kim
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2004, 04:15:06 PM »

Who cares what a bunch of folks on the internet say about Church history?
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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2004, 04:37:29 PM »

Frobie:

I think nobody here cares! Tongue

This exercise is just for "amusement" to determine the "original" authorship of the "timeline."

The "timeline," author unknown, was first used in Catholic apologetics directed at Protestant polemics.

Now, there are 2 versions: the original not including the Orthodox and the second including 1054 as the year when the Orthodox "separated" from the Catholic Church.

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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2004, 05:06:31 PM »

I've seen a similar timeline by a Roman Catholic website-I'll have to dig it up again-which did mention the Eastern Orthodox as being founded in 1054, not mentioning any particular founder.  

It was more of a bar graph/timeline where the protestant sects had tiny, insignificant bars corresponding to recent times, while the Orthodox bar went about mid-way, and the Catholic bar went impressively all the way across the page to Jesus Christ in 33 AD.

I will be the first to admit I don't know much history, but at that I had to cringe. :-

Kim

There's one that is put out by Conciliar Press, in one of their publications/pamphlets/books/etc. from the Orthodox POV, but I haven't seen one from the RCC POV.  (POV = point of view)
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