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Offline Orthodoc

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Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« on: December 14, 2009, 08:16:03 PM »
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6736

14 December 2009, 16:14

Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers

Moscow, December 14, Interfax – Head of the Moscow Patriarchate Department for External Church Relations Archbishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk urges to be more tolerant of the way parishioners are dressed.

Sometimes casual dressed young men and girls in trousers came to the Church "to find support and understanding, but were subjected to insults and humiliation," the Archbishop told the Church and World program (the Vesti TV).

He considers such attitude "a disease we should fight against," the DECR website reported on Monday.

Archbishop Hilarion points out that women's trouser suits have been produced in Russia and in the West for over 80 years, thus we cannot consider trousers men's clothing only. "The Lord looks at a person's heart, not at his or her cloths," he stressed.

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Offline mike

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 08:20:45 PM »
Good of Abp Hilarion, that he said that.

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 08:27:46 PM »
I don't think Heaven is concerned about fashions. Good on the Archbishop.
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Offline observer

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 08:43:09 PM »
I don't suppose Heaven is bothered about clothes? But please don't come naked to church!
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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 06:34:33 PM »
I wish he was there with me when an ROC priest chewed me out for wearing shorts in his church  (I wasn't even "officially" attending the service, just dropped by to take some pictures of the church when they were open during a vigil service).
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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 07:43:23 PM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 09:41:46 PM »
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6736

14 December 2009, 16:14

Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers

Moscow, December 14, Interfax – Head of the Moscow Patriarchate Department for External Church Relations Archbishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk urges to be more tolerant of the way parishioners are dressed.

Sometimes casual dressed young men and girls in trousers came to the Church "to find support and understanding, but were subjected to insults and humiliation," the Archbishop told the Church and World program (the Vesti TV).

He considers such attitude "a disease we should fight against," the DECR website reported on Monday.

Archbishop Hilarion points out that women's trouser suits have been produced in Russia and in the West for over 80 years, thus we cannot consider trousers men's clothing only. "The Lord looks at a person's heart, not at his or her cloths," he stressed.

==================

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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 09:44:57 PM »

Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Plenty of women where pants simply as a casual form of dress, not really having anything to do with fashion or seduction.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2010, 10:04:59 PM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

I agree. And men should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible, too! In fact, why not have them put a bag over their heads in the process. I remember being in Church with my daughter once. The Liturgy had started and I was following along as one does. Daughter happened to turn around as a young Greek god glides into Church. Being the pious lady I am, I didn't notice. :P So daughter elbows me and with a jerk of her head in his direction draws my attention to the newly arrived "deity"!

Ok, ok... I repented!

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Offline Paisius

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2010, 10:06:03 PM »

Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam



Plenty of women where pants simply as a casual form of dress, not really having anything to do with fashion or seduction.

What is important is that we dress modestly and respectfully and that to some extent is dictated by the culture we live in. What is considered respectful in modern America may not have been respectful a hundred years ago and may not be in modern day Romania or Tanzania. Sensibilities change in time and place.

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 10:15:30 PM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 10:19:06 PM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Yes, perhaps we (male and female) should all wear burkas?  :angel:
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 10:20:51 PM »
I wish he was there with me when an ROC priest chewed me out for wearing shorts in his church  (I wasn't even "officially" attending the service, just dropped by to take some pictures of the church when they were open during a vigil service).

When I was in Greece I used to have a pair of pants in my bag, which I would put on when I passed a Church and go in (I went into any Church that was open).  I wasn't even crazy about my sons wearing shorts when they were younger.  When a Church is consecrated, it is set aside, and not like any other place.
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Offline Father H

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 10:57:07 PM »
I think in that context the issue is not pants.  There is an overall problem of people coming to the Church, not knowing what to do, and getting scolded easily by priests.   

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 11:40:11 PM »
I've seen middle-age women scolded for wearing very tasteful and modest pant-suits in a ROCOR parish. I guess there "pious dress" was determined c. 19th cent. In cases like that it seems to me that modesty is not the issue, but preservation of certain cultural norms disguised as "modesty".

On the flip side I've seen girls/young women in skin tight jeans and t-shirts in Moscow parishes who took the time to cover their heads!
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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 11:51:55 PM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam


   
Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Yes, perhaps we (male and female) should all wear burkas?  :angel:

I anticipated such reactionary responses to my simple and plain comments. But I will indulge you guys anyway. If men are dressing specifically to draw attention to themselves or to look sexy, then that is not an appropriate approach in considering Church attire. Modesty and respect are of equal importance for both genders. Someone can always attack modesty by gradually inching the bar lower and lower. But I know what that game is all about, and I don't even pay it any mind. Whether you are a man or a woman, if you love God and love your fellow man then you will err on the side caution. You will adorn yourself in such a way as to give God the glory rather than yourself.

Selam
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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 11:54:21 PM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam


   
Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Yes, perhaps we (male and female) should all wear burkas?  :angel:

I anticipated such reactionary responses to my simple and plain comments. But I will indulge you guys anyway. If men are dressing specifically to draw attention to themselves or to look sexy, then that is not an appropriate approach in considering Church attire. Modesty and respect are of equal importance for both genders. Someone can always attack modesty by gradually inching the bar lower and lower. But I know what that game is all about, and I don't even pay it any mind. Whether you are a man or a woman, if you love God and love your fellow man then you will err on the side caution. You will adorn yourself in such a way as to give God the glory rather than yourself.

Selam

But if we are made in the image of God should we not reflect his glory through, for example, a designer suit that makes us look great?  ;)
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2010, 12:55:43 AM »
I know I'm not a Bishop, nor do I pretend to be. But in my honest opinion, this is one of the things that the Church should allow to change with time, that is dress code.

If someone comes into a church in trousers, jeans or even sweatpants, I don't believe there is anything wrong with it... How can we know if that's all that person has to wear? Who then, are we to scold them?

The only occurrences I can think of where someone's dress should be corrected, is if it is too revealing of their anatomy. If a woman wears a low cut shirt, or a skirt or shorts that are too high, or a man who is wearing shorts that are too high, or a shirt that is too transparent... You get the picture...

It's up to the Bishops and the Priests, but our dress code should not be stuck in the 19th Century...

Offline stanley123

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 01:09:17 AM »
Although I can see where you might want to have exceptions, and in many circumstances leniency might be a good policy, still, generally, I think that women should wear modest dresses to Church because according to:
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
The fact that it is mentioned that it is an abomination for women to wear that which pertaineth to a man (and vice versa) means that the Lord has strong opinions on the issue.
Further, it is clear that trousers pertain to men's dress, because if you have to go to the toilet and you see a door with a human figure wearing trousers, you know that it is the men's restroom.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 01:11:30 AM »
If we all just wore togas, this wouldn't be an issue. Just sayin'.

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 01:16:23 AM »
Although I can see where you might want to have exceptions, and in many circumstances leniency might be a good policy, still, generally, I think that women should wear modest dresses to Church because according to:
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
The fact that it is mentioned that it is an abomination for women to wear that which pertaineth to a man (and vice versa) means that the Lord has strong opinions on the issue.
Further, it is clear that trousers pertain to men's dress, because if you have to go to the toilet and you see a door with a human figure wearing trousers, you know that it is the men's restroom.

You are being too logical and too biblical my friend. Expect a barage of tirades against your anachronistic and unenlightened opinion. You have to realize that some of these posters take a Jeffersonian approach to the Holy Scriptures; i.e. they desire to cut out any and all biblical texts that don't align with their own myopic worldview. Eventually, the only Scripture they will affirm as valid for today is the word "me."

But I'm with you 100%. ;)

Selam
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 01:17:36 AM »
If we all just wore togas, this wouldn't be an issue. Just sayin'.

Yes, considering that both male and female attire consisted of tunics or different lengths when Deuteronomy was written. Wasn't the idea of trousers borrowed from the Persians?
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 02:31:46 AM »
A-MEN! (to Abp. HILARION)

More to this:
I believe there are several different perspectives regarding dress.  On one end, there is the Russian 18th century perspective that says that women must wear full length clothing (dresses or skirts) and men long sleeve shirts and pants, with both looking rather peasant-like.  On the other end, there is the Protestant-"dress your Sunday best" attitude.  Well, both styles seem to have conflict with both modern dress and the actual intent of what "ought" to be.  From my perspective, a woman coming in wearing a skirt, but some even slightly revealing top is AS distracting as some guy coming to church in some fancy suit - they're both just incredibly pretentious.  MODEST is something that covers the flesh, but is not pretentious or fancy.  Saying a woman is "cross-dressing" or wearing men's clothes by wearing some form of pants is just rubbish (I love this British word) - its not even debateble and anyone who says otherwise should not even be acknowledged unless it is to educate the ignorant. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 02:46:05 AM by Elisha »

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 02:42:46 AM »
There are certainly no female trousers in the God-fearing Zarist churches.

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2010, 02:49:03 AM »
If we all just wore togas, this wouldn't be an issue. Just sayin'.

Depends on the variety of toga ;)

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2010, 03:17:20 AM »
A-MEN! (to Abp. HILARION)

Saying a woman is "cross-dressing" or wearing men's clothes by wearing some form of pants is just rubbish (I love this British word) - its not even debateble and anyone who says otherwise should not even be acknowledged unless it is to educate the ignorant. 

My favourite British word for such claims is "codswallop".  :laugh:
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2010, 04:01:03 AM »
A-MEN! (to Abp. HILARION)

More to this:
I believe there are several different perspectives regarding dress.  On one end, there is the Russian 18th century perspective that says that women must wear full length clothing (dresses or skirts) and men long sleeve shirts and pants, with both looking rather peasant-like.  On the other end, there is the Protestant-"dress your Sunday best" attitude.  Well, both styles seem to have conflict with both modern dress and the actual intent of what "ought" to be.  From my perspective, a woman coming in wearing a skirt, but some even slightly revealing top is AS distracting as some guy coming to church in some fancy suit - they're both just incredibly pretentious.  MODEST is something that covers the flesh, but is not pretentious or fancy.  Saying a woman is "cross-dressing" or wearing men's clothes by wearing some form of pants is just rubbish (I love this British word) - its not even debateble and anyone who says otherwise should not even be acknowledged unless it is to educate the ignorant. 

Just to clarify so as not to be misunderstood: I have never advocated that women should not wear pants in Church. Read my posts and you will see that I never mentioned pants, but rather emphasized modesty. (Just don't want others to think you are talking about me here.)

Selam
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2010, 04:04:51 AM »
The title of this thread made me imagine His Holiness shielding trouser-clad women from the wrath of an angry traditionalist Russian Orthodox mob.

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2010, 04:21:54 AM »
The title of this thread made me imagine His Holiness shielding trouser-clad women from the wrath of an angry traditionalist Russian Orthodox mob.

That's some imagination you have, there!  :laugh:
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2010, 04:25:05 AM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

I agree. And men should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible, too! In fact, why not have them put a bag over their heads in the process. I remember being in Church with my daughter once. The Liturgy had started and I was following along as one does. Daughter happened to turn around as a young Greek god glides into Church. Being the pious lady I am, I didn't notice. :P So daughter elbows me and with a jerk of her head in his direction draws my attention to the newly arrived "deity"!

Ok, ok... I repented!



 ;D
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 04:25:56 AM »

Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam



Plenty of women where pants simply as a casual form of dress, not really having anything to do with fashion or seduction.

What is important is that we dress modestly and respectfully and that to some extent is dictated by the culture we live in. What is considered respectful in modern America may not have been respectful a hundred years ago and may not be in modern day Romania or Tanzania. Sensibilities change in time and place.

Good point!
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2010, 04:27:51 AM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Don't forget that people are also distracted by the good looks of others of their same gender.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 04:29:26 AM by deusveritasest »
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2010, 04:30:53 AM »
I wish he was there with me when an ROC priest chewed me out for wearing shorts in his church  (I wasn't even "officially" attending the service, just dropped by to take some pictures of the church when they were open during a vigil service).

When I was in Greece I used to have a pair of pants in my bag, which I would put on when I passed a Church and go in (I went into any Church that was open).  I wasn't even crazy about my sons wearing shorts when they were younger.  When a Church is consecrated, it is set aside, and not like any other place.

I would think there would be more important ways of recognizing the other-worldly nature of the Church.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 04:33:08 AM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Don't forget that people are also distracted by the good looks of others of their same gender.

Ok, so it's burkas all round, then?  :angel:
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2010, 04:33:22 AM »

On the flip side I've seen girls/young women in skin tight jeans and t-shirts

Honestly, tight jeans and t-shirts is significantly more modest than the sorts of things I've seen in my local Greek parish.  :(
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2010, 04:33:49 AM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Don't forget that people are also distracted by the good looks of others of their same gender.

Ok, so it's burkas all round, then?  :angel:

Or everybody could just chill out.  ;)
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 04:35:34 AM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam

Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Don't forget that people are also distracted by the good looks of others of their same gender.

Ok, so it's burkas all round, then?  :angel:

Or everybody could just chill out.  ;)

Well, that might be too much to hope for!
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2010, 04:37:00 AM »
Men and women should come to Church to worship and pray, not to make a fashion statement. Women should dress in a manner that will draw as little attention to themselves as possible. As a man, I am at Church to gaze at the icons and focus on the Lord, not to ogle seductively dressed women. Persoanlly, the more covered a woman is and the looser her clothes are, the more I respect her and see her as a God-fearing woman. If women want to "look pretty" or "be sexy," there are plenty of places in this world for that. Church should not be one of them. Women: please consider the spritual welfare of your Christian brethren when you dress for Church.

Selam


   
Many women find a man dressed in a well-fitting suit with a white shirt and tie most alluring. Does this mean men should stop wearing such clothes to church for fear it may distract the ladies?

Yes, perhaps we (male and female) should all wear burkas?  :angel:

I anticipated such reactionary responses to my simple and plain comments. But I will indulge you guys anyway. If men are dressing specifically to draw attention to themselves or to look sexy, then that is not an appropriate approach in considering Church attire. Modesty and respect are of equal importance for both genders. Someone can always attack modesty by gradually inching the bar lower and lower. But I know what that game is all about, and I don't even pay it any mind. Whether you are a man or a woman, if you love God and love your fellow man then you will err on the side caution. You will adorn yourself in such a way as to give God the glory rather than yourself.

Selam

But if we are made in the image of God should we not reflect his glory through, for example, a designer suit that makes us look great?  ;)

Actually, the primary problem with that sort of thing would probably be in it drawing away from more important ways of expressing piety, such as a prayerful attitude or almsgiving.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2010, 04:38:50 AM »

 or a man who is wearing shorts that are too high,

LOL. Guys wearing short-shorts in church? I've never seen this.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2010, 04:39:46 AM »
Although I can see where you might want to have exceptions, and in many circumstances leniency might be a good policy, still, generally, I think that women should wear modest dresses to Church because according to:
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
The fact that it is mentioned that it is an abomination for women to wear that which pertaineth to a man (and vice versa) means that the Lord has strong opinions on the issue.
Further, it is clear that trousers pertain to men's dress, because if you have to go to the toilet and you see a door with a human figure wearing trousers, you know that it is the men's restroom.

 :o :o :o

SRSLY?
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2010, 04:41:14 AM »

You have to realize that some of these posters take a Jeffersonian approach to the Holy Scriptures; i.e. they desire to cut out any and all biblical texts that don't align with their own myopic worldview. Eventually, the only Scripture they will affirm as valid for today is the word "me."

Comparing people here to Jefferson? That's ridiculous.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 04:41:40 AM by deusveritasest »
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2010, 04:52:50 AM »

You have to realize that some of these posters take a Jeffersonian approach to the Holy Scriptures; i.e. they desire to cut out any and all biblical texts that don't align with their own myopic worldview. Eventually, the only Scripture they will affirm as valid for today is the word "me."

Comparing people here to Jefferson? That's ridiculous.

You're right. At least Jefferson believed in God; but we have atheists who feel the need to propagate their anti-God views on this forum.

Selam
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2010, 04:55:49 AM »
You're right. At least Jefferson believed in God; but we have atheists who feel the need to propagate their anti-God views on this forum.

Ok, now this is the second time that this type of claim has been made in the last few days. Apart from GiC, who isn't even posting right now, who here is an atheist? Isn't bearing false witness a sin or something? Something about it in the Ten Suggestions of the Old Testament?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2010, 04:58:01 AM »

You have to realize that some of these posters take a Jeffersonian approach to the Holy Scriptures; i.e. they desire to cut out any and all biblical texts that don't align with their own myopic worldview. Eventually, the only Scripture they will affirm as valid for today is the word "me."

Comparing people here to Jefferson? That's ridiculous.

You're right. At least Jefferson believed in God; but we have atheists who feel the need to propagate their anti-God views on this forum.

Selam

I haven't seen anything of that sort in this thread.
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2010, 05:09:58 AM »

You have to realize that some of these posters take a Jeffersonian approach to the Holy Scriptures; i.e. they desire to cut out any and all biblical texts that don't align with their own myopic worldview. Eventually, the only Scripture they will affirm as valid for today is the word "me."

Comparing people here to Jefferson? That's ridiculous.

 

You're right. At least Jefferson believed in God; but we have atheists who feel the need to propagate their anti-God views on this forum.

Selam

I haven't seen anything of that sort in this thread.

No. But the Jeffersonian spirit is rampant throughout this thread, evidenced by the subjective opinions indicating that modesty is passe, culturally relavant, and superfluous in today's world. But then again, I'm sure some of these people consider this a compliment.

Selam
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