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Author Topic: Archbishop Hilarion protects female parishioners in trousers  (Read 14269 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #135 on: January 19, 2010, 11:59:36 AM »

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I totally agree church is not the place to express your individuality, social class, sexuality, etc. I think pants work as well as or better than skirts. The sexy look is really a problem sometimes. At my husband's parish, the girls are so obviously going clubbing after the Easter service. Leather mini-skirt and thigh boots? Really? I feel so bad for guys.

 
 
Wouldn't it be even more effective if people were taught to dress modestly ALL the time-not just when they go to church? This double standard seems so bewildering to me. Aren't we always in God's presence-not just when we're in church-and shouldn't we as women always be careful that we are not dressing to excite men's lust? Beyond Christian duty, isn't it also a matter of good taste and proper upbringing not to wear vulgar clothing?
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« Reply #136 on: January 19, 2010, 02:05:00 PM »

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I totally agree church is not the place to express your individuality, social class, sexuality, etc. I think pants work as well as or better than skirts. The sexy look is really a problem sometimes. At my husband's parish, the girls are so obviously going clubbing after the Easter service. Leather mini-skirt and thigh boots? Really? I feel so bad for guys.

 
 
Wouldn't it be even more effective if people were taught to dress modestly ALL the time-not just when they go to church? This double standard seems so bewildering to me. Aren't we always in God's presence-not just when we're in church-and shouldn't we as women always be careful that we are not dressing to excite men's lust? Beyond Christian duty, isn't it also a matter of good taste and proper upbringing not to wear vulgar clothing?

Amen!

(where's the "standing up and cheering" smiley?)
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« Reply #137 on: January 19, 2010, 04:32:53 PM »

 
 
Wouldn't it be even more effective if people were taught to dress modestly ALL the time-not just when they go to church? This double standard seems so bewildering to me. Aren't we always in God's presence-not just when we're in church-and shouldn't we as women always be careful that we are not dressing to excite men's lust? Beyond Christian duty, isn't it also a matter of good taste and proper upbringing not to wear vulgar clothing?
[/quote]

Well said Rosehip and absolutely right.  Not to change the subject, but our parish had a family that was coming to church for a while with goth teens, dad in a nice kilt (a Utili-Kilt, with no loud pattern) and both Dad and Mom tatooed and pierced.  They were the nicest family and I'm sad they don't still attend.  Our parish isn't too overly stuffy, but I thought we'd finally broken into the "alternative' church crowd.  Unusual fashions/piercings/tatoos don't bother me at all; I find that totally acceptable as opposed to the hoochie mama look I see on so many women.   Tasteful artistic expression is completely different from sexual seductivenes, which is why I want to roll my eyes at women in church with tight blue jeans, 4" heels and scarves.  And yet again, it's not up to me to police people at the door.  If someone's clothing is a continuous temptation, I feel it's best if the priest has a quiet talk with them.  What good will it serve for disgruntled parishioners to confront them?  It only breeds more discontent.
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« Reply #138 on: January 19, 2010, 05:02:31 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

The problem is that in the Old World (I know about Eastern part of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania) trousers are considered not to be the adequate clothing for women to go to a Church. Not the shorts that undercover half of the buttocks, but the ancle-lenghted and modest trousers only. Babushkas  that do not wear trousers at all (and some Priest and other people also) tend to hiss ad the female parishioners that go to a Church in trousers and sometimes ask them to leave the Church. According tho them any skirt (including the miniskirts) or dress is better that trousers.

In some Monasteries skirts are obligatory for females in they want to visit them and if they are in trousers they are lent the skirts from the Monastery. There are some skirts for that reason. On the other had women in even very short skirts are not.
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« Reply #139 on: January 19, 2010, 09:14:43 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

Yes, Mike, I got the same impression several pages ago.  Wink The issue is trousers on a woman.

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« Reply #140 on: January 19, 2010, 11:00:47 PM »

I wish he was there with me when an ROC priest chewed me out for wearing shorts in his church  (I wasn't even "officially" attending the service, just dropped by to take some pictures of the church when they were open during a vigil service).
I see that a lot in Anglo-RC Churches.Not so much in Hispanic RC Churches. What did you say to the priest?
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« Reply #141 on: January 19, 2010, 11:16:25 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

The problem is that in the Old World (I know about Eastern part of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania) trousers are considered not to be the adequate clothing for women to go to a Church. Not the shorts that undercover half of the buttocks, but the ancle-lenghted and modest trousers only. Babushkas  that do not wear trousers at all (and some Priest and other people also) tend to hiss ad the female parishioners that go to a Church in trousers and sometimes ask them to leave the Church. According tho them any skirt (including the miniskirts) or dress is better that trousers.

In some Monasteries skirts are obligatory for females in they want to visit them and if they are in trousers they are lent the skirts from the Monastery. There are some skirts for that reason. On the other had women in even very short skirts are not.

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

But I do think Bishop Ilarion has a point, that it's better to treat people with love and encouragement when they do actually show up at church, rather than turning them off it altogether by making them feel inferior due to their clothing.
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« Reply #142 on: January 19, 2010, 11:46:46 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

The problem is that in the Old World (I know about Eastern part of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania) trousers are considered not to be the adequate clothing for women to go to a Church. Not the shorts that undercover half of the buttocks, but the ancle-lenghted and modest trousers only. Babushkas  that do not wear trousers at all (and some Priest and other people also) tend to hiss ad the female parishioners that go to a Church in trousers and sometimes ask them to leave the Church. According tho them any skirt (including the miniskirts) or dress is better that trousers.

In some Monasteries skirts are obligatory for females in they want to visit them and if they are in trousers they are lent the skirts from the Monastery. There are some skirts for that reason. On the other had women in even very short skirts are not.

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

But I do think Bishop Ilarion has a point, that it's better to treat people with love and encouragement when they do actually show up at church, rather than turning them off it altogether by making them feel inferior due to their clothing.

Good words Rosehip. Smiley

Selam
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« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2010, 01:21:18 AM »

LOL. Get your mind out of the gutter. I was talking about my fat gut weight issues (about 225 lbs. at 5'9")

Wow!  I'm 5'9" and 225 is a long term goal for me Shocked

On the subject:  One thing I admire from the Ethiopian Church is the uniformity in dress in their liturgical services, where everyone is all in white.  Perhaps, if churches have issues with modesty and becomes a major problem, we can look towards something like that.

Why not try to develop uniformity?  If not though, there's another solution.  We Copts tend to encourage our congregation to close their eyes when they pray.  That helps me a lot, and yes, I confess the temptation is sometimes great, since for most of my life in the Church, I would stand with the singers, readers, and subdeacons, and not with the congregants, and never really looked behind me to see what everyone looked like.  But days when I do stand with the congregants, the more back of the church I stood, the more I was distracted, not just by what I see, but also by an increased noise level too.

This whole idea of uniformity reminds me of an Egyptian proverb that we used to bother our grandmother who didn't like our heart attack breakfast mixes:  Eat whatever you like, but dress like everyone around you.
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« Reply #144 on: January 20, 2010, 06:05:37 PM »

I wish he was there with me when an ROC priest chewed me out for wearing shorts in his church  (I wasn't even "officially" attending the service, just dropped by to take some pictures of the church when they were open during a vigil service).
I see that a lot in Anglo-RC Churches.Not so much in Hispanic RC Churches. What did you say to the priest?

I said "sorry".  I don't judge him for his response to me.  The thing that really irked me though was that almost all the men (the few that were there) were dressed even more casual then I was.  I saw both young and old dressed in shorts and even one man in a muscle shirt.  I was dressed like the rest of the male parishioner's (but, for all I know the priest could have also chewed them out too).
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« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2010, 06:09:04 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

The problem is that in the Old World (I know about Eastern part of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania) trousers are considered not to be the adequate clothing for women to go to a Church. Not the shorts that undercover half of the buttocks, but the ancle-lenghted and modest trousers only. Babushkas  that do not wear trousers at all (and some Priest and other people also) tend to hiss ad the female parishioners that go to a Church in trousers and sometimes ask them to leave the Church. According tho them any skirt (including the miniskirts) or dress is better that trousers.

In some Monasteries skirts are obligatory for females in they want to visit them and if they are in trousers they are lent the skirts from the Monastery. There are some skirts for that reason. On the other had women in even very short skirts are not.

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

But I do think Bishop Ilarion has a point, that it's better to treat people with love and encouragement when they do actually show up at church, rather than turning them off it altogether by making them feel inferior due to their clothing.


Wow!  What parish do you belong to?  That kind of behavior sounds awfully strict and uncompromising for a Church to take.  I've seen such behavior from traditional RC's in regards to dress, but not so much from the Orthodox. You certainly wouldn't see that happening in any parish that I would choose to affiliate myself with.

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« Reply #146 on: January 20, 2010, 06:12:50 PM »

I am a man and I don't like trousers that much.  I wish that it would not cause a scene to wear Middle Eastern clothing here in the United States.  Far more comfortable.
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« Reply #147 on: January 20, 2010, 06:42:05 PM »

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Wow!  What parish do you belong to?  That kind of behavior sounds awfully strict and uncompromising for a Church to take.  I've seen such behavior from traditional RC's in regards to dress, but not so much from the Orthodox. You certainly wouldn't see that happening in any parish that I would choose to affiliate myself with.

Perhaps it's on the strict side, but I feel quite comfortable with that. It's no hardship to be reminded to put something on my head when I enter the church and no hardship to commit myself to dressing modestly on a daily basis (by my own convictions).

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« Reply #148 on: January 21, 2010, 12:59:57 PM »

Like a lot of other things, it's much easier and quicker to just lay down the law, than it is to explain why we do what we do and believe what we believe. It's much easier to enforce a dress code than it is to take the time to explain why it's a good thing to dress modestly (at all times, as rosehip so wisely points out!) and respectfully when we come to church to worship God.

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« Reply #149 on: January 21, 2010, 02:07:15 PM »

Like a lot of other things, it's much easier and quicker to just lay down the law, than it is to explain why we do what we do and believe what we believe.
Since when does Orthodoxy opt for the easy or quick way of doing anything?  laugh
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« Reply #150 on: January 21, 2010, 02:44:13 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

The problem is that in the Old World (I know about Eastern part of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania) trousers are considered not to be the adequate clothing for women to go to a Church. Not the shorts that undercover half of the buttocks, but the ancle-lenghted and modest trousers only. Babushkas  that do not wear trousers at all (and some Priest and other people also) tend to hiss ad the female parishioners that go to a Church in trousers and sometimes ask them to leave the Church. According tho them any skirt (including the miniskirts) or dress is better that trousers.

In some Monasteries skirts are obligatory for females in they want to visit them and if they are in trousers they are lent the skirts from the Monastery. There are some skirts for that reason. On the other had women in even very short skirts are not.

And, yet, they still can't figure out why people don't want to go to church...hmmm...
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« Reply #151 on: January 21, 2010, 06:23:27 PM »

I have the impression that most of you do not realise what the real problem is. It's not about modest vs. flamboyant (I hope I've used the proper word) clothing at all.

The problem is that in the Old World (I know about Eastern part of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania) trousers are considered not to be the adequate clothing for women to go to a Church. Not the shorts that undercover half of the buttocks, but the ancle-lenghted and modest trousers only. Babushkas  that do not wear trousers at all (and some Priest and other people also) tend to hiss ad the female parishioners that go to a Church in trousers and sometimes ask them to leave the Church. According tho them any skirt (including the miniskirts) or dress is better that trousers.

In some Monasteries skirts are obligatory for females in they want to visit them and if they are in trousers they are lent the skirts from the Monastery. There are some skirts for that reason. On the other had women in even very short skirts are not.

And, yet, they still can't figure out why people don't want to go to church...hmmm...

Orthodoxy does not have the Protestant "Mega-Church" mindset. Yeah, it would be great if more people wanted to embrace the True Christian Faith; but if the Church compromises its standards in order to accomadate the world, then it will cease to be the Church. And of course we know that it is impossible for the Church to cease being the Church, for Our Lord has promised us that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

If people are looking for a comfortable spirituality, Orthodoxy is not it. But if people are looking for liberation from the bondage of fleshly passions and self-indulgence, then Orthodoxy is the true Christian grace that will heal their souls. Look, it's not easy for me. I fall way short in every area of my spiritual life. But I don't want the Church to cater to my weaknesses; instead I need the teachings and practices of Orthodoxy to help me transcend my weaknesses.

Selam
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« Reply #152 on: February 01, 2010, 03:47:48 AM »

I wonder if St. Mary of Egypt would be Communed in one of our oh-so-holy-and-modestly-dressed monasteries?

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« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2010, 10:26:56 AM »

Ozgeorge- Where did that cloak she's wearing come from?
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« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2010, 10:30:46 AM »

Ozgeorge- Where did that cloak she's wearing come from?
I'd hardly say she's "wearing" it. Cheesy She's hardly dressed in a way that many posters on this thread would consider "modest enough to Commune".
At any rate, it was St. Zossima's
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« Reply #155 on: February 03, 2010, 10:47:36 AM »

Ozgeorge- Where did that cloak she's wearing come from?
I'd hardly say she's "wearing" it. Cheesy She's hardly dressed in a way that many posters on this thread would consider "modest enough to Commune".
At any rate, it was St. Zossima's

For the sake of modesty, she asked Saint Zosima for the cloak, so I think this example militates against the point you're trying to make. She tried to cover up as best as she could in the presence of someone else, and I'm sure would have preferred more coverage if it were available. IE, she would not have simply walked up to a monastery naked without trying to get some proper attire first. 

If you've been practicing extreme ascesis in the desert, alone with God, to the point that you look barely human, the elements have stripped you naked, and you have to beg a passing priest to borrow his cloak, I'm sure that some allowance can be made for you. It's a far cry from people casually strolling in with mini-skirts.
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« Reply #156 on: February 03, 2010, 10:48:52 AM »

It's a far cry from people casually strolling in with mini-skirts.
How do you know they are not Saints?
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« Reply #157 on: February 03, 2010, 10:53:08 AM »

It's a far cry from people casually strolling in with mini-skirts.
How do you know they are not Saints?

If it turns out that some Fool-for-Christ has decided to dress like a prostitute to test our humility, I'll gladly accept correction when the truth is revealed. In the meantime, I don't see any reason why a holy person would wear a mini-skirt into church.
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« Reply #158 on: February 03, 2010, 10:59:41 AM »

If it turns out that some Fool-for-Christ has decided to dress like a prostitute to test our humility, I'll gladly accept correction when the truth is revealed. In the meantime, I don't see any reason why a holy person would wear a mini-skirt into church.
Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them. St. John the Merciful was Patriarch of Alexandria in the seventh century and was renowned for his almsgiving.  When someone who didn't seem to need alms applied for them at the Patriarch's residence, the attendants told St. John who replied: "Give unto him; he may be Our Lord in disguise." You will never know if the person you meet today is a Saint by the way they are dressed. Saints don't have uniforms.
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« Reply #159 on: February 03, 2010, 04:38:45 PM »

If it turns out that some Fool-for-Christ has decided to dress like a prostitute to test our humility, I'll gladly accept correction when the truth is revealed. In the meantime, I don't see any reason why a holy person would wear a mini-skirt into church.
Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

It's really not the point. You brought up St. Mary of Egypt to somehow say, "hey, it doesn't matter how you're dressed" when in fact she, out of modesty, requested St. Zosima's cloak to cover up with. Her nakedness was alright insofar as no human being saw her- one might say that solitude served for her clothing. When meeting with a priest, she respected basic standards of decency. 

We're talking about what is proper attire for attending church. Obviously we should be compassionate and loving to everyone, irrespective of attire, but that's a separate issue.
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« Reply #160 on: February 03, 2010, 06:46:24 PM »

To throw a spanner in the works here:

If it is regarded as unseemly for a woman to turn up to an Orthodox church wearng trousers or a woman's tailored pantsuit (seamstresses and tailors would know what I mean), then what of a man who turns up wearing a suit, but sports a brightly-colored mohawk and multiple piercings? Or a preposterous moustache which has been so coiffed, curled and waxed into a ram's horn shape that it is clearly visible when standing behind him? (The former example has not occurred in my experience yet, but the latter has.) Food for thought.
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« Reply #161 on: February 03, 2010, 07:03:52 PM »

I don't wish to cause offence here, but I do tend to feel that the very human habit of going overboard has ocurred in certain sectors of the Orthodox Church. To me, the "dress code" is a point in case; it's just something that exposes our tendancy to Pharisaism and concern with externals. Yes, it's perfectly right to dress modestly for Church. But should clothing really become such a rigid concern that we allow it to become a distraction when someone has slipped up in that regard?

If someone walked into Church dressed in only a cloak to cover their nakedness - certainly an act of modesty - can't you just imagine the response? This "concern" to unify everyone - perhaps the next step up from the "dress code" would be Church uniforms? - goes way beyond modesty issues. It has extended into the realm of legalism. And I don't think that legalists would welcome a cloak-clad saint into the Church.

Just some thoughts.
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« Reply #162 on: February 03, 2010, 07:13:58 PM »

To throw a spanner in the works here:

If it is regarded as unseemly for a woman to turn up to an Orthodox church wearng trousers or a woman's tailored pantsuit (seamstresses and tailors would know what I mean), then what of a man who turns up wearing a suit, but sports a brightly-colored mohawk and multiple piercings? Or a preposterous moustache which has been so coiffed, curled and waxed into a ram's horn shape that it is clearly visible when standing behind him? (The former example has not occurred in my experience yet, but the latter has.) Food for thought.

But do you really think that this issue is so much about modesty as it is about control and maintaining a status quo? Some people have taken it into the their heads that they will uphold some passing fashion custom as the custom to uphold. In the process, they don't consider - probably through ignorance - that fashion is a moving feast for both men and women; and that at one time the attire for both men and women was almost the same; a tunic of different lengths and its accompliments. I wonder if somewhere in time there was an uproar when men stopped wearing tunics only and took to the very barbaric practice of wearing trousers?  Wink
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« Reply #163 on: February 03, 2010, 07:17:39 PM »

Riddi, I completely agree with you. I'm simply pointing out the pharisaism and double standard by those zealots in certain church communities who can't see the wood for the trees. Hence my earlier post on the potential distraction to some women on seeing a man wearing a well-tailored suit. It cuts both ways.
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« Reply #164 on: February 03, 2010, 07:23:00 PM »

Riddi, I completely agree with you. I'm simply pointing out the pharisaism and double standard by those zealots in certain church communities who can't see the wood for the trees. Hence my earlier post on the potential distraction to some women on seeing a man wearing a well-tailored suit. It cuts both ways.

Oh yes, I agree. Didn't mean to indicate otherwise.  Smiley I've already told my little ancedote about the time a young "Greek god" visited our Church. Very distracting! laugh
Lord, have mercy on all of us who are distracted.
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« Reply #165 on: February 03, 2010, 09:30:04 PM »

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

Wow, I've never been to a parish that was so strict on women's dress.

In my parish trousers on women are accepted, and none of the women cover their heads.

But then again, we're a bunch of heathens with pews too.  Wink  Tongue
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« Reply #166 on: February 03, 2010, 09:59:41 PM »

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

Wow, I've never been to a parish that was so strict on women's dress.

In my parish trousers on women are accepted, and none of the women cover their heads.

But then again, we're a bunch of heathens with pews too.  Wink  Tongue

 laugh Is outrage!
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« Reply #167 on: February 03, 2010, 10:10:37 PM »

Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

There was a young lady in the shortest miniskirt I've ever seen at another Serbian parish in town.  She was certainly sent to test me, but I'm pretty sure she was sent by Satan!
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« Reply #168 on: February 03, 2010, 10:13:55 PM »

Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

There was a young lady in the shortest miniskirt I've ever seen at another Serbian parish in town.  She was certainly sent to test me, but I'm pretty sure she was sent by Satan!

Give thanks that God created woman and gave her long sexy legs.  angel
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« Reply #169 on: February 03, 2010, 10:15:10 PM »

Give thanks that God created woman and gave her long sexy legs.

Hey, I'm all for admiring the beauty of God's creation, but I'm married! I only get to admire one pair of legs from here on out.
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« Reply #170 on: February 03, 2010, 10:18:14 PM »

Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

There was a young lady in the shortest miniskirt I've ever seen at another Serbian parish in town.  She was certainly sent to test me, but I'm pretty sure she was sent by Satan!

I don't think we can even blame Satan for our temptations. It is our own desires which are the source of our temptations, and we must take responsibility for them and seek to correct them as Scripture says: "Each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death." (James 1:14-15)
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« Reply #171 on: February 03, 2010, 10:21:13 PM »

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

Wow, I've never been to a parish that was so strict on women's dress.

In my parish trousers on women are accepted, and none of the women cover their heads.

But then again, we're a bunch of heathens with pews too.  Wink  Tongue

 laugh Is outrage!

I know! And our priest cuts his hair!   Shocked  Tongue  laugh
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« Reply #172 on: February 03, 2010, 10:37:29 PM »

Give thanks that God created woman and gave her long sexy legs.

Hey, I'm all for admiring the beauty of God's creation, but I'm married! I only get to admire one pair of legs from here on out.

From The Ladder of Divine Ascent:

Someone told me of an extraordinarily high degree of purity. He said: 'A certain man, on seeing a beautiful woman, thereupon glorified the Creator; and from that one look, he was moved to the love of God and to a fountain of tears. And it was wonderful to see how what would have been a cause of destruction for one was for another the supernatural cause of a crown.' If such a person always feels and behaves in the same way on similar occasions, then he has risen immortal before the general resurrection.
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« Reply #173 on: February 03, 2010, 10:57:36 PM »

It's pretty much the same at my parish in North America. We have boxes of long skirts for those who show up in pants. I think this is very nice, because this way anyone can pop in at the spur of the moment, and yet there are skirts available to wear if necessary. I don't agree though, that miniskirts are more modest than pants. I've pretty much adopted the habit of always wearing skirts or dresses on a daily basis, this simplifies matters a great deal. In the winter one can wear warm stockings and boots. One time I did walk in without a headscarf on my head and I was quite sternly rebuked by a woman in her thirties!

Wow, I've never been to a parish that was so strict on women's dress.

In my parish trousers on women are accepted, and none of the women cover their heads.

But then again, we're a bunch of heathens with pews too.  Wink  Tongue

 laugh Is outrage!

I know! And our priest cuts his hair!   Shocked  Tongue  laugh

Yikes! It gets worse!!  laugh
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« Reply #174 on: February 04, 2010, 02:21:20 AM »

I don't think we can even blame Satan for our temptations.

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« Reply #175 on: February 04, 2010, 02:26:21 AM »

Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

There was a young lady in the shortest miniskirt I've ever seen at another Serbian parish in town.  She was certainly sent to test me, but I'm pretty sure she was sent by Satan!
I have a question: If I am correct, Serbian Churches have no pews so what does a person dressed in that manner do when it's time for prostrations?
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« Reply #176 on: February 04, 2010, 02:32:34 AM »

Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

There was a young lady in the shortest miniskirt I've ever seen at another Serbian parish in town.  She was certainly sent to test me, but I'm pretty sure she was sent by Satan!
I have a question: If I am correct, Serbian Churches have no pews so what does a person dressed in that manner do when it's time for prostrations?
If its a Sunday, she shouldn't be prostrating anyway. If it isn't, then the onus is on you to avert your gaze (see reply 178 above).
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« Reply #177 on: February 04, 2010, 04:07:13 AM »

I have a question: If I am correct, Serbian Churches have no pews so what does a person dressed in that manner do when it's time for prostrations?

This church does have unholy blasphemous pews, and nobody prostrates even during weekday services unless it is Great Lent, so low is the level of piety here in the New World.  How motherland Serbia would weep her holy tears for us!
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« Reply #178 on: February 05, 2010, 01:02:39 AM »

This church does have unholy blasphemous pews, and nobody prostrates even during weekday services unless it is Great Lent, so low is the level of piety here in the New World. 
Please do not take offense, but could I ask as to why pews would be considered unholy and blasphemous in the Orthodox Church. Thank you kindly. 
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« Reply #179 on: February 05, 2010, 01:38:47 AM »

Thats the whole point- you will never know if they are a Holy Fool or an Angel in disguise sent to test us, so we should always accept them.

There was a young lady in the shortest miniskirt I've ever seen at another Serbian parish in town.  She was certainly sent to test me, but I'm pretty sure she was sent by Satan!
I have a question: If I am correct, Serbian Churches have no pews so what does a person dressed in that manner do when it's time for prostrations?
If its a Sunday, she shouldn't be prostrating anyway. If it isn't, then the onus is on you to avert your gaze (see reply 178 above).

I've never seen a picture of a Serbian church in the USA which didn't have pews.  Maybe this is common in the "old country" but not here.  I have even seen a few ROCOR parishes that have pews! (to be fair, I think that these churches were originally OCA ones).
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