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Author Topic: Complete list of Western liturgies?  (Read 1493 times) Average Rating: 0
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Pilgrim
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« on: September 12, 2009, 11:01:31 PM »

Does anyone know where I can get a resource like this? I'd like it to list (and even have the outline, if possible) all the western liturgies, ancient and modern used by the western Church before the Tridentine was introduced, and especially, prei-schism.

Also, a question: what liturgy did the Church in the German lands use?
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 06:51:43 PM »

I find this to be a good resource: http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Liturgics.html

Hope that helps with the first part of your post. 
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 10:15:20 PM »

Does anyone know where I can get a resource like this? I'd like it to list (and even have the outline, if possible) all the western liturgies, ancient and modern used by the western Church before the Tridentine was introduced, and especially, prei-schism.

Also, a question: what liturgy did the Church in the German lands use?

The answers to your questions are going to largely depend on exactly what time period your question is addressed to.

Since you particularly address pre-schism usages, perhaps this broad outline will be useful:

We first encounter surviving texts in the west beginning in the sixth century. At that time the Roman Liturgy was used in Rome, it's vicinity as well as Sicily and other Papal dependencies. to see this Liturgy in English (with a lot of interesting background material) go here:
http://www.archive.org/details/ordoromanusprimu00atchuoft
The Ambrosian Liturgy was used in Milan and its environs, and Greek Liturgies were used in Byzantine held areas like Ravenna, Bari and southern Italy.

The Mozarabic Liturgy flourished in Spain, through the Moslem Conquest. It was gradually replaced by the Roman Liturgy during the Reconquista. It is retained (sort of) in Toledo.

Northwest Europe (including Germany) used the Gallican Liturgy until the 8th century. The Gallican Liturgy was based on the Antiochian usage so it would have resembled the Liturgy of St. James, and by extension would have had things in common with the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. I don't know of an accurate rendering of a Gallican Liturgy available online. Many "restorations" were done during the 18th and 19th centuries in France for political reasons, but they have biases and are not reliable. During the time of Charlemagne, Gallican and Roman usages were fused to form something which looked very much like the Tridentine Rite. This became the common rite of the West.

Celts in Ireland, Scotland and Wales had their own usages, of which the Stowe Missal is a surviving example.

After the 11th century, most of the variations in usage from place to place were minor, different calendars and lectionaries, Offertory and prayers at the foot of the Altar varied, as well as music, but the Canon of the Mass was consistent throughout the West. This document (from the site mentioned by Seth84) gives you outlines of the different surviving usages http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/SynopsisRituum2004.pdf The Tridentine Rite of 1570 was actually the then current Roman Missal, which became the standard throughout western Europe.

Hope this helps.



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Pilgrim
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 11:04:02 PM »

It helps immensly. Thanks both of you.
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St. Cyril, St. Leo, and St. Severus pray that the Church may be united and one, Eastern and Oriental.St. Issac the Syrian, pray that Assyria would return to the Holy Church. St. Gregory, pray for Rom
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 03:03:43 AM »

The answers to your questions are going to largely depend on exactly what time period your question is addressed to.

Since you particularly address pre-schism usages, perhaps this broad outline will be useful:

We first encounter surviving texts in the west beginning in the sixth century. At that time the Roman Liturgy was used in Rome, it's vicinity as well as Sicily and other Papal dependencies. to see this Liturgy in English (with a lot of interesting background material) go here:
http://www.archive.org/details/ordoromanusprimu00atchuoft
The Ambrosian Liturgy was used in Milan and its environs, and Greek Liturgies were used in Byzantine held areas like Ravenna, Bari and southern Italy.

The Mozarabic Liturgy flourished in Spain, through the Moslem Conquest. It was gradually replaced by the Roman Liturgy during the Reconquista. It is retained (sort of) in Toledo.

Northwest Europe (including Germany) used the Gallican Liturgy until the 8th century. The Gallican Liturgy was based on the Antiochian usage so it would have resembled the Liturgy of St. James, and by extension would have had things in common with the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. I don't know of an accurate rendering of a Gallican Liturgy available online. Many "restorations" were done during the 18th and 19th centuries in France for political reasons, but they have biases and are not reliable. During the time of Charlemagne, Gallican and Roman usages were fused to form something which looked very much like the Tridentine Rite. This became the common rite of the West.

Celts in Ireland, Scotland and Wales had their own usages, of which the Stowe Missal is a surviving example.

After the 11th century, most of the variations in usage from place to place were minor, different calendars and lectionaries, Offertory and prayers at the foot of the Altar varied, as well as music, but the Canon of the Mass was consistent throughout the West. This document (from the site mentioned by Seth84) gives you outlines of the different surviving usages http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/SynopsisRituum2004.pdf The Tridentine Rite of 1570 was actually the then current Roman Missal, which became the standard throughout western Europe.

Hope this helps.

I bolded the part above because I did not think that you meant to put Sicily in there. Sicily did not become Latin Catholic until the post schism era. Before that they were Byzantine, along with the rest of Magna Graecia. That website that you and Seth84 linked to has an excellent source of Western Orthodox liturgics. I would love to see the Liturgy of St. Ambrose or St. Germanus in person. Sadly, the only ones that do these liturgies are the famed "Milan Synod" churches. Sad

Perhaps when Western Orthodoxy catches on, that will change. The two most common Western Orthodox rites are the Gregorian and Tikhonian, correct?

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 12:56:22 PM »



Sicily did not become Latin Catholic until the post schism era. Before that they were Byzantine, along with the rest of Magna Graecia.


Depends on where you are talking about. Certainly the coastal cities, especially those on the East coast remained Greek in language and faith for centuries, there were extensive Papal estates as early as the 5th Century, where Roman practice would have prevailed.
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 01:31:57 PM »

I would love to see the Liturgy of St. Ambrose or St. Germanus in person.

Personally, I find it to be the most beautiful liturgy, Eastern or Western.
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