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Author Topic: Entrance during the Phos Hilaron  (Read 5981 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 11, 2009, 12:42:02 AM »

What's the point of the entrance that takes place in Vespers during the Phos Hilaron?
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 01:10:52 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 01:15:18 AM »

What's the point of the entrance that takes place in Vespers during the Phos Hilaron?

Well there is no entrance during Vesper, only during Great Vespers and it takes place in this manner...

At the start of the "now and ever..." the presbyter and deacons leave the altar area with the censar and proceed to the solia in the usual manner. At the end of the "now and ever..." hymn the deacon intones "Wisdom, Attend" and "Phos Hilaron" begins. The clergy enter at "Father, Son and Holy Sprint" and the hymn concludes.
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 01:16:06 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?

Gladsome (or Joyous) Light...
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 01:20:55 AM »

What's the point of the entrance that takes place in Vespers during the Phos Hilaron?

Well there is no entrance during Vesper, only during Great Vespers and it takes place in this manner...

At the start of the "now and ever..." the presbyter and deacons leave the altar area with the censar and proceed to the solia in the usual manner. At the end of the "now and ever..." hymn the deacon intones "Wisdom, Attend" and "Phos Hilaron" begins. The clergy enter at "Father, Son and Holy Sprint" and the hymn concludes.

I mean Great Vespers...

I know what happens. I've been to Great Vespers many times. I meant, why is there an entrance? The historical reason behind the great entrance during the Divine Liturgy is that the unconsecrated elements used to be housed in a separate room, and the entrance was when they were brought to the altar. So what's the historical reason for the Great Vespers entrance?
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 02:02:48 AM »

I mean Great Vespers...

I know what happens. I've been to Great Vespers many times. I meant, why is there an entrance? The historical reason behind the great entrance during the Divine Liturgy is that the unconsecrated elements used to be housed in a separate room, and the entrance was when they were brought to the altar. So what's the historical reason for the Great Vespers entrance?
Sorry misunderstood your original question, the entrance is a hold over from the Cathedral Rite Vespers, it is when the Bishop would enter the altar area at that point. Attend a Vesperal Liturgy with a Bishop serving and it will make sense.
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 02:07:35 AM »

Another ignorant question: do Antiochians hold their services in Greek?
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 03:07:21 AM »

In America, they use English.  They used to use Greek until the 17th century, when they switched to Arabic after electing their first Arabic Patriarch.
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 03:15:07 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?

Gladsome (or Joyous) Light...

 Thank you!  Now, how about 'Solia'?  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 03:21:45 AM »

In America, they use English.  They used to use Greek until the 17th century, when they switched to Arabic after electing their first Arabic Patriarch.

Thank you! I thought so, but noticed Samkin refers to "O Gladsome Light" by its Greek title, and so I wondered if perhaps services are in Greek after all.
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 03:27:22 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?

Gladsome (or Joyous) Light...

I like the word "Gladsome" - it it way under utilized and has a nice ring to it.  I surprised to hear during a Kurt Elling song (awesome Jazz singer), to hear him use "Vouchsafe" - another under utilized word.
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 03:54:12 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?

Gladsome (or Joyous) Light...

 Thank you!  Now, how about 'Solia'?  Smiley
I don't think there is another name for it, it is the solia. Anyone else think they can take a stab at this?
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 04:10:40 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?

Gladsome (or Joyous) Light...

 Thank you!  Now, how about 'Solia'?  Smiley
I don't think there is another name for it, it is the solia. Anyone else think they can take a stab at this?

 I Googled it and came up with nada.  Sad
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2009, 05:27:23 AM »

REPLY #7.  I thought the Patriarchate of Antioch did not elect an Arab as patriarch until the very late 19th century or the very early 20th century. 

Also, the Antiochian Patriarchate retains some Greek in its services, as do many of the parishes in the AOCANA, such as chanting "Holy God..." in Greek.  There are YouTube videos of services in Syria which support this statement.
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2009, 08:26:19 AM »

Excuse the ignorant question, but what's the Phos Hilaron?

Gladsome (or Joyous) Light...

 Thank you!  Now, how about 'Solia'?  Smiley
I don't think there is another name for it, it is the solia. Anyone else think they can take a stab at this?

From OrthodoxWiki (from the "Ambon" entry): The entire elevated place in front of the Iconostasis is called the solea.
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« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2009, 12:15:34 PM »

Thanks genisesisone! Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2009, 01:31:09 PM »

I've been told by a few Greek speakers that "Gladsome Light" isn't really that good of a translation for Phos Hilaron..... Most try to describe it as an uncontainable light or a light which casts awe and amazement on those who see it. As far as the entrance for the Great Vespers, it is usually when there is a Gospel reading taking place (which is usually why a Great Vespers is served e.g. saint, major feast, etc.). The entrance during vespers I'm told is akin to the entrance done during divine liturgy before "O Come let us Worship and Fall Down.."

-Nick
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« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 04:06:10 PM »

As far as the entrance for the Great Vespers, it is usually when there is a Gospel reading taking place (which is usually why a Great Vespers is served e.g. saint, major feast, etc.). The entrance during vespers I'm told is akin to the entrance done during divine liturgy before "O Come let us Worship and Fall Down.."
NO! Wrong! There is not a Gospel reading at Great Vespers, never ever has there been. The only relation it has to the entrance at liturgy is that it is a small entrance and it traces it roots to the bishop entering the altar. The entrance at Great Vespers has nothing to do with the Gospel.
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2009, 04:08:56 PM »

As far as the entrance for the Great Vespers, it is usually when there is a Gospel reading taking place (which is usually why a Great Vespers is served e.g. saint, major feast, etc.). The entrance during vespers I'm told is akin to the entrance done during divine liturgy before "O Come let us Worship and Fall Down.."
NO! Wrong! There is not a Gospel reading at Great Vespers, never ever has there been. The only relation it has to the entrance at liturgy is that it is a small entrance and it traces it roots to the bishop entering the altar. The entrance at Great Vespers has nothing to do with the Gospel.

 "When the choir begins to sing, Lord, I have called, the deacon, after the priest has blessed the incense, censes the altar on its four sides, the icons, the choirs, and the people, and returns to the sanctuary to the priest. At the Glory, the deacon opens the holy doors. Then the priest, preceded by the deacon with the censer, (or, if the Gospel is to be read, with the Gospel Book), goes around the right side of the altar, and comes out by the north door and stands before the holy doors.
    The deacon, bowing slightly and holding the orarion with the first three fingers of his right hand, says to the priest secretly: Let us pray to the Lord."

http://biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/Gvespers.htm

-Nick
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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2009, 04:21:34 PM »

The Gospel is read at Vespers on Easter day alone: "Ousis opsias ti imera ekini"
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2009, 04:25:55 PM »

The Gospel is read at Vespers on Easter day alone: "Ousis opsias ti imera ekini"

No, it's also read at the Vesperal Liturgy of St. Basil the Great on Nativity Eve and Theophany Eve.
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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2009, 04:29:01 PM »

But that's not just Vespers, that's a liturgy with a vesperal appendix.
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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2009, 04:48:13 PM »

What's the point of the entrance that takes place in Vespers during the Phos Hilaron?

What I've heard:
Quote
The entry during Vespers reminds the faithful how the Old Testament righteous, in harmony with the promise of God that was manifest in prototypes and prophecies, expected the coming of the Saviour, and how He appeared in the world for the salvation of the human race. -  Fr. Seraphim Slobodskoy   

Take it or leave it. All of Vespers recalls and represents events of the Old Testament: the creation of the world, the fall into sin of the first human beings, their expulsion from Paradise, their repentance and prayer for salvation, the hope of mankind in accordance with the promise of God for a Saviour and finally, the fulfillment of that promise.
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2009, 06:57:20 PM »

I mean Great Vespers...

I know what happens. I've been to Great Vespers many times. I meant, why is there an entrance? The historical reason behind the great entrance during the Divine Liturgy is that the unconsecrated elements used to be housed in a separate room, and the entrance was when they were brought to the altar. So what's the historical reason for the Great Vespers entrance?
Sorry misunderstood your original question, the entrance is a hold over from the Cathedral Rite Vespers, it is when the Bishop would enter the altar area at that point. Attend a Vesperal Liturgy with a Bishop serving and it will make sense.

Like the origin of the other entrances where the deacon was sent to get something, (the Gospel Book and the gifts at Litrugy) and bring it into the Church, at Cathedral Vespers he was sent to get the lamp.

"...the cathedral of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople contiued to retain the ancient usage of bringing in a lamp from outside the church...The service began with the huge cathedral in complete darkness.  At the time appointed for for bringing in the lamp, the archdeacon took the censer and, accompanied by a second deacon along with twelve other deacons, processed from the sanctuary to the narthex, where burning lamps were already prepared and waiting.  The deacons took up the lamps and the archdeaconled them back into the nave of the church.  The archdeacon intoned, "The Light of Christ illumes all men," and ascended the ambo with the other deacons.  Then the cleric designated by the rubrics as the "superior of the lights" likewise took up a lamp and approaching the patriarch in the sancturay, said: "Bless, master."  The patriarch answered: "For Thou art our sanctification, O Christ our God, always, now and ever, and unto ages of ages."  The superior of the lights then lit all the lamps in the sanctuary; the subdeacons and lamplighters did the same throughout the church.  After the deacons standing on the ambo received the blessing of the patriarch, the archdeacon intoned, "Wisdom, let us attend," and they all descended the ambo and entered the sacntuary"(Uspensky Pages 32-33 Evening Worship in the Orthodox Church).
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2009, 07:01:58 PM »

I mean Great Vespers...

I know what happens. I've been to Great Vespers many times. I meant, why is there an entrance? The historical reason behind the great entrance during the Divine Liturgy is that the unconsecrated elements used to be housed in a separate room, and the entrance was when they were brought to the altar. So what's the historical reason for the Great Vespers entrance?
Sorry misunderstood your original question, the entrance is a hold over from the Cathedral Rite Vespers, it is when the Bishop would enter the altar area at that point. Attend a Vesperal Liturgy with a Bishop serving and it will make sense.

Like the origin of the other entrances where the deacon was sent to get something, (the Gospel Book and the gifts at Litrugy) and bring it into the Church, at Cathedral Vespers he was sent to get the lamp.

"...the cathedral of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople contiued to retain the ancient usage of bringing in a lamp from outside the church...The service began with the huge cathedral in complete darkness.  At the time appointed for for bringing in the lamp, the archdeacon took the censer and, accompanied by a second deacon along with twelve other deacons, processed from the sanctuary to the narthex, where burning lamps were already prepared and waiting.  The deacons took up the lamps and the archdeaconled them back into the nave of the church.  The archdeacon intoned, "The Light of Christ illumes all men," and ascended the ambo with the other deacons.  Then the cleric designated by the rubrics as the "superior of the lights" likewise took up a lamp and approaching the patriarch in the sancturay, said: "Bless, master."  The patriarch answered: "For Thou art our sanctification, O Christ our God, always, now and ever, and unto ages of ages."  The superior of the lights then lit all the lamps in the sanctuary; the subdeacons and lamplighters did the same throughout the church.  After the deacons standing on the ambo received the blessing of the patriarch, the archdeacon intoned, "Wisdom, let us attend," and they all descended the ambo and entered the sacntuary"(Uspensky Pages 32-33 Evening Worship in the Orthodox Church).

That's what I thought. Too bad we don't do that anymore (bring in a lamp).
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2009, 07:20:56 PM »

A Gosepl is read at Vespers on Christmas, Theophany, (even if there is no Divine Liturgy appended), Good Friday, and Pascha.  I am unsure of Holy Week outside of Good Friday.
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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2009, 09:17:49 PM »

^Admin/Mod please fix my goof Tongue

What I meant to say is a Gospel is also called for at Presanctified Mon-Wed  of Holy Week plus Vesperal Liturgy Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday.  I am unsure if the Gospel is still read on these days if just Vespers is served.  My inclination leads me to say yes.
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« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2009, 07:04:08 PM »

The Gospel is also called for on certain feastdays during Great Lent (like the 40 martyrs).

Thank you!  Now, how about 'Solia'?  Smiley

Solia (or Solea) was actually the raised step that used to connect the Sanctuary to the Ambon (pulpit, which was situated in the middle of the Nave, but now is usually offset to the left as you face the altar table or even mounted on a pillar of the Church).  Nowadays, it is generally used to refer to the area (raised or not) in front of the iconostasis that includes the pulpit, Episcopal throne, and frequently the choir/cantor lectern(s) (right and left).
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« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2009, 07:12:49 PM »

That's what I thought. Too bad we don't do that anymore (bring in a lamp).

They do at New Skete, and in parishes that use the New Skete liturgical books.
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« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2009, 07:30:32 PM »

I've been told by a few Greek speakers that "Gladsome Light" isn't really that good of a translation for Phos Hilaron..... Most try to describe it as an uncontainable light or a light which casts awe and amazement on those who see it.

Would be interested in seeing citations that use ἱλαρὸν in that way. Sounds anachronistic to me. The typical meaning is cheerful, happy, gay -- and, by extension, auspicious.

As to the OP: The original point of the entrance is explained in the hymn we sing during the actual entrance into the altar area. We sing about how God's metaphorical light is even better than the light we just lit.
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« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2009, 08:42:41 PM »

That's what I thought. Too bad we don't do that anymore (bring in a lamp).

They do at New Skete, and in parishes that use the New Skete liturgical books.

I was told no parishes were allowed to use their revised rites.  Has something changed or do some use them anyways or were some always allowed?
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« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2009, 08:58:15 PM »

I was told no parishes were allowed to use their revised rites.  Has something changed or do some use them anyways or were some always allowed?

I imagine that is the official line and probably the current practice. I don't go to OCA parishes much anymore because my wife can't stand the music, but back in the early 90s, my OCA home parish always used the New Skete book for Saturday's Great Vespers.
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« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2009, 09:11:19 PM »

I am curious, how did you like their revision compared with standard practice?
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« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2009, 11:38:40 PM »

Another ignorant question: do Antiochians hold their services in Greek?

We do 95% English, some Arabic, and some Greek.
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« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2009, 02:11:46 AM »

Re. Translation of Gladsome Light

My Greek is not good, especially first millennium Greek, but I would submit "illuminating" as to what "ilaron" conveys.
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« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2009, 10:33:35 AM »

Re. Translation of Gladsome Light

My Greek is not good, especially first millennium Greek, but I would submit "illuminating" as to what "ilaron" conveys.
"ιλαρος" means "cheerful" or "merry" and is where the English word "hilarious" comes from.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%B1%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%82
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« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2009, 11:40:14 AM »

I've been told by a few Greek speakers that "Gladsome Light" isn't really that good of a translation for Phos Hilaron..... Most try to describe it as an uncontainable light or a light which casts awe and amazement on those who see it.

Would be interested in seeing citations that use ἱλαρὸν in that way. Sounds anachronistic to me. The typical meaning is cheerful, happy, gay -- and, by extension, auspicious.

As to the OP: The original point of the entrance is explained in the hymn we sing during the actual entrance into the altar area. We sing about how God's metaphorical light is even better than the light we just lit.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was anachronistic, the people that were telling me this were native greek speakers (e.g. born and raised in Greece) with English as their second language and they may not have had the right words for english, but that was simply what I was told and remember to this day.

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« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2009, 02:00:47 PM »

"ιλαρος" means "cheerful"

This is precisely the way it was defined to me when I first asked.
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« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2009, 10:50:36 PM »

To correct my Reply #34 and and confirm "ozgeorge"'s Reply #35, my mother checked a contemporary Greek-American dictionary.  It translates "ilaron" as "merriment."  So "gladsome" is not so bad.  I've seen a recent liturgical translation as "joyous," too.
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« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2009, 11:22:21 PM »

'Gladsome" was used in the original English Book of Common Prayer, and is the term still used in the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer.
I assume the English word "hilarious" comes from the Greek "hilarion".

IIRC, the Phos Hilarion marks the time when Sunday begins for the parish where the vespers is being served.
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« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2009, 11:58:42 PM »

Re. Translation of Gladsome Light

My Greek is not good, especially first millennium Greek, but I would submit "illuminating" as to what "ilaron" conveys.

The Arabic version follows your translation.
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« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2009, 03:03:34 AM »

I wasn't sure if I should ask this question here, or start a new thread, but here it goes:

How does the entrance work for vesperal liturgy when it's a hierarchical liturgy?  LIke for christmas eve for example.  

I have seen a bishop come out during the phos ilaron, but i'm trying to see if anyone else has seen any variations, and can describe them to me...it would be helpful for a friend of mine who has to deal with this, coming up very soon.  
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« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2009, 09:02:47 AM »

I wasn't sure if I should ask this question here, or start a new thread, but here it goes:

How does the entrance work for vesperal liturgy when it's a hierarchical liturgy?  LIke for christmas eve for example.   

I have seen a bishop come out during the phos ilaron, but i'm trying to see if anyone else has seen any variations, and can describe them to me...it would be helpful for a friend of mine who has to deal with this, coming up very soon. 

For Vesperal Liturgy, if the hiererarch is serving (and not "presiding from the throne"), then he will be entering at that point, from what I recall.  But I'll double-check my rubrics when I get to work...
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« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2009, 11:23:31 AM »

I wasn't sure if I should ask this question here, or start a new thread, but here it goes:

How does the entrance work for vesperal liturgy when it's a hierarchical liturgy?  LIke for christmas eve for example.   

I have seen a bishop come out during the phos ilaron, but i'm trying to see if anyone else has seen any variations, and can describe them to me...it would be helpful for a friend of mine who has to deal with this, coming up very soon. 

For Vesperal Liturgy, if the hiererarch is serving (and not "presiding from the throne"), then he will be entering at that point, from what I recall.  But I'll double-check my rubrics when I get to work...

Yah this is what I remember also.  He enters with his mandia though?  or without? 

And, if he's already at the throne, then he would have entered with his mandia before the reading of the psalm right? 

Just trying to make sure...as many details as you can remember (or find) would be most helpful. 
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« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2009, 02:07:32 PM »

I wasn't sure if I should ask this question here, or start a new thread, but here it goes:

How does the entrance work for vesperal liturgy when it's a hierarchical liturgy?  LIke for christmas eve for example.   

I have seen a bishop come out during the phos ilaron, but i'm trying to see if anyone else has seen any variations, and can describe them to me...it would be helpful for a friend of mine who has to deal with this, coming up very soon. 

For Vesperal Liturgy, if the hiererarch is serving (and not "presiding from the throne"), then he will be entering at that point, from what I recall.  But I'll double-check my rubrics when I get to work...

Yah this is what I remember also.  He enters with his mandia though?  or without? 

And, if he's already at the throne, then he would have entered with his mandia before the reading of the psalm right? 

Just trying to make sure...as many details as you can remember (or find) would be most helpful. 
If it is the Vesperal Liturgy the Bishop is fully vested before the start of Vespers and is outside (in the Greek practice, always at his chair). During the entrance and at "now that we have come" he descends his chair and goes to the middle of the Solea and begins to bless the four corners. At "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" the Bishop enters the sanctuary.

This seems to be common amongst all traditions, after this is where diversion is found. In the Russian practice the Bishop would do the normal censing with the chanting of the Eis-Polla. In the Greek practice the Bishop simply goes to the high place for the prokiemenon and Old Testament readings.
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