Author Topic: Clergy Vests?  (Read 6540 times)

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Offline SakranMM

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Clergy Vests?
« on: December 09, 2009, 12:14:48 PM »
Some of you may have seen priests and deacons wearing black vests over their cassocks.  This seems to be a norm among clergy in Slavic traditions, whether they are married or celibate.  I also see monks wearing it frequently.

However, in other traditions, I've seen priests go with and without it.  I have been told that strictly speaking, the vest is usually worn only by celibate clergy and monastics.  Can anyone confirm?

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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2009, 01:01:22 PM »
IIRC, the vest comes out of the monastic tradition.  The monks are to wear the exorasso all day - a difficult thing if one is working around the monastery.  The vest & the short-rasso were both made to allow the wearing of the outer garment while still providing the freedom to work.  At least in the Greek tradition it is not limited - as long as you are "rassoforo" (i.e. have permission to wear the exorasso) you can wear it.  So you, as a deacon, can wear it around if you wanted to.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 01:01:42 PM by Fr. George »
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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2009, 01:46:23 PM »
I wear my "konto" (=kontorasso = short rasso; so konto means shorts just like we would say shorts for short pants) whenever I wear my cassock.  To formal occasions I will wear my full exorasso.  I don't feel comfortable wearing just my cassock (anderi) without a vest. I know people do it in America and even other places these days, but it doesn't seem right to me :)
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 02:14:23 PM »
Many of the clergy have gotten so use to just wearing an Italian military shirt that the anteri seems like dressing up to them. In reality the anteri is an undergarment. It is not acceptable to wear just an anteri outside of your home just as it would not be acceptable to wear a t-shirt and boxers.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2009, 02:55:16 PM »
It is not acceptable to wear just an anteri outside of your home just as it would not be acceptable to wear a t-shirt and boxers. 

It isn't ??? ;)
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Offline SakranMM

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2009, 06:22:40 PM »
Yes, we were taught too that the anderi is an undergarment.  I think the custom in America has prevailed that priests who normally wear the cassock will wear the anderi without the exorasso when outside church services. Of course, there are exceptions.

Fr. George:  I love the disclaimer at the bottom of your posts about your pre-ordination posts.  Now that you're ordained, I'm sure we won't find anything lacking in your current posts ; ) (just kidding, of course.  I couldn't help myself.)
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 07:41:50 PM »
Well I don't know of anybody that doesn't wear shirt and pants under the cassock, so I don't see how today they can be consider an undergarment.  Also the exorason was introduced under the Turks.  Old Believer clergy still don't wear them, using only cassock with the full mantle or the short mantle, which looks like the Latin shoulder cape.
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 08:06:31 PM »
Well I don't know of anybody that doesn't wear shirt and pants under the cassock, so I don't see how today they can be consider an undergarment.  Also the exorason was introduced under the Turks.  Old Believer clergy still don't wear them, using only cassock with the full mantle or the short mantle, which looks like the Latin shoulder cape.

I know plenty of monastics who wear very little under their anteri, but I think it is part of the casualization of the 20th century. There was a time when a gentleman was expected to be in coat and hat when leaving his home and the clergy have always been part of that gentleman class along with lawyers, doctors and businessmen.

Also I wouldn't use the Old Believers to try and reconstruct ancient Roman dress. Many have fallen into this trap and not realized that they those in the northern lands were developing their own distinctive practices separate from the rest of the Orthodox world.
Joseph

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 08:07:49 PM »
Well I don't know of anybody that doesn't wear shirt and pants under the cassock, so I don't see how today they can be consider an undergarment.  Also the exorason was introduced under the Turks.  Old Believer clergy still don't wear them, using only cassock with the full mantle or the short mantle, which looks like the Latin shoulder cape.

The received tradition is to wear the rasso or a kontorasso over an anderi. Just as the St Sabba typikon replaced the Studite universally, so did the rasso replace the mantle; it doesn't matter that it happened during Turkish times.  To try to 'go back' to some prior practice would be going against the grain. Besides, cassocks without vests or rassos look odd. ;)
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Offline mike

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2009, 08:11:21 PM »
For me rasssos worn by non-Monks look weird :P I personally know only one Priest who does that.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2009, 08:17:58 PM »
For me rasssos worn by non-Monks look weird :P I personally know only one Priest who does that.

When priests in your area serve non-Eucharistic services, do they wear a rasso? Or do they just serve, say, Vespers with a cassock? Or do they use the rasso in Church but not on the street?
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Offline mike

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Re: Clergy Vests?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 06:26:23 AM »
They put on epitrachelion and felonion on cassock. They do not use rasssos at all. See the picture:
http://orthphoto.net/photo.php?id=47523&id_jezyk=1
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