Author Topic: So-called Orhtodox  (Read 1557 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline VladCatholic

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • OC.net
So-called Orhtodox
« on: December 13, 2003, 01:46:06 PM »
The so-called Orthodox claim that their is the true communion, but is this so?

  Now, I am of the Church that Christ founded, The Most Holy Roman Catholic Church (Matt. 16:18).

  Christ founded One true Church outside of which there is no hope for eternal salvation (Matt. 18:17).

  In sight of this, the pope, is the head of the Church and must hold and protect the true faith as its shepard. Now, if the pope would fall into heresy he would at once cease to be head of the Church for he that is head is also a member.

  St. Paul preaches:

      “But though we, or an angel from heaven preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.”

(Galatians 1:8-9).


  It is clear then that even if one representing Christ should wither away into a "new: gospel that he would be "anathema."

  God "cannot" contradict Himself, that is why the Church teaches that if a pope falls into heresy he cannot be pope.

  Pope Innocent III as quoted by the theologian Billot in his Tract. de Ecclesia Christi, p. 610:

“The faith is necessary for me to such an extent that, having God as my only judge in other sins, I could however be judged by the Church for sins I might commit in matters of faith.”

 
  An heretical pope is no pope. And, if a man where a heretic he would not be pope even if elected with the whole consent of the Church.

 
  Heretics and Schismatics are not members of the Church of Christ.

 St. Optatus of Milevis:

  "The Catholic Church alone, then, Christ calls His Spouse. The Church, therefore, is one; this cannot be said amongst any of those who are heretics or schismatics. The churches of every one of the heretics is prostituted; they are churches which Christ repudiates as unnecessary, since He is the Spouse of One Church."

  ("Schism of the Donatists," Bk.I, no's.6, 10; LAF vol. II; PL 11; CSL vol.XXVI, Vienna: 1893; FOC p.158).



  The author of this is not a Sedevacantist but simply a Roman Catholic.

  Those that "communicate" in the sacraments of heretics or schismatics are not true Catholics.

  For example:

          The Society of Pius X (which believe that John Paul II is pope) will allow communion with those that believe that John Paul II is not pope.

  This is heresy.

  There can be no communion with heretics.

  St. John of Damascus writes:

"With all our strength let us beware lest we receive Communion from or give it to heretics. 'Give not what is holy to the dogs,' says the Lord. 'Neither cast ye your pearls before swine', lest we become partakers in their dishonour and condemnation."

 (Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, IV, 13).


  Now, anti-Pope Paul VI and and pseudo-Patriarch Ahtenagoras were responsible for the so-called "lifting" of the "anathemas" of 1054 A.D. which separated both.

  Their "joint" statement was as follows:

   "They likewise regret and remove both from memory and from the midst of the Church the sentences of excommunication which followed these events, the memory of which has influenced actions up to our day and has hindered closer relations in charity; and they commit these excommunications to oblivion." (Dec. 7, 1965).


  Clearly then these two heretics "recognize" each other's "communion." If so, then in the Greek side of things they must "except" what the Church of Rome teaches.

  I am in no way supporting what these heretics have done and it is absolutely "invalid."

  But it does prove a point: both "recognize" each other and according to them (who "suppossedly" represent their communions) lifted the excommunications off each other.

  Now, where was the so-called Orhtodox in all this. Do they still regard Athenagoras as a "true" Patriarch "yes." Do they recognize him as "orthodox" --"yes."

  So then they communicate with a heretic in prayers and intercessions etc.

  And also, how could the so-called Orhtodox be "orhtodox" since they "recoginze" as valid the sacraments and faith of the Roman Church in that statement qouted above?

  Communion means to be in harmony in faith and practice.

  Now, the main stream so-called Orhtodox follow in the steps of Athenagoras etc.

  If so, then how could they state that the Roman Church is in heresy? The purpose of "excommunication" is to acknowledge that one is "not" in communion with a heretic or schismatic.

  What is there to "disagree" about if "excommunication" is "lifted?"

  I think the point is utterly clear.

  Now, the Old Calenarists (Julian) believe that the "new" Calendarists (those that adopted the Calendar change of Pope Gregory XIII in 1583) are regard as heretics in the eyes of the Old.

  But, and suprisingly "some" of the Old Calendarists will hold communion with the New.

  Two points are now made: 1. If the so-called Orthodox follow the lead of pseudo-Patriarch Athenagoras then they follow from they consider as heresy: Roman Catholicism.

  2. If they follow the lead of the Old then they still communicate with the New and where or what position does that leave them in?

 

  Only the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ and as St. John the Almsgiver stated that even if we be surrounded by heretics not to communicate with them even if they state they are of the true faith but deny or doubt one dogma of the true faith of Christ and His Apostles. One must stay home and pray and not communicate with heretics in the sacraments.

  With this I remain,

  VladCatholic

Offline carpo-rusyn

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 383
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2003, 01:52:55 PM »
VladCatholic

[Now, I am of the Church that Christ founded, The Most Holy Roman Catholic Church (Matt. 16:18).]

In previous posts you have stated you do not recognize John Paul II as the Roman pontiff.  If this is so you are not "of the Roman Catholic Church" so please stop trying to pass yourself off as Roman Catholic.


Carpo-Rusyn


Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,478
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2003, 08:17:53 PM »
VladCatholic,

This is the second time I know of that you have posted the same thing in two different threads.  Please don't make this a habit.  Thank you.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline The Caffeinator

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2003, 08:44:14 PM »
Also, Vlad, Orthodoxy is spelled like this: Orthodoxy.

Offline Seraphim Reeves

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 450
    • An Orthodox Catechism
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2003, 11:11:34 PM »
I'm curious as to why anyone is responding to these posts - I've yet to see "VladCatholic" reply to any of the responses.

Seraphim

Offline Byzantino

  • Me Ortodox
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 353
  • Orthodox Christian
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2003, 05:19:03 AM »
Vlad "Catholic,"

If I were an atheist, your example would harden me in my atheism.  What are you seeking to accomplish here, aside from being an occasion for sin? Your time would be better spent learning how to behave like a Christian rather than cutting and pasting tracts in the hope of trying to win people over to your sect.  


Offline AlaskanOrthodox

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 85
  • Orthodoxy is Life
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2003, 07:45:13 PM »
Glory be to Jesus Christ!

If Vlad had tasted the waters of Orthodoxy he would have found life and Roman Catholicism in its various manifestations would lose its hold and power; let us pray for him that he may be led to Life which is the Most Holy Orthodox Faith; which is preserved by the Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church of the East.

Along with prayer may our friend be led to respect the rules of this Forum. Amin.

Lord have mercy!

In Christ,

Alexis

Offline JoeS

  • (aka StMarkEofE)
  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Global Warming Enthusiast.
Re:So-called Orhtodox
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2003, 10:46:12 PM »
My sentiments exactly.  This is someone that should be ignored rather that responded to.  We all know that he or she is a troll and is only here to disrupt - not to learn.  A wolf in sheep's clothing.  No response is better that any. 'nough said.

JoeS   ;D