Author Topic: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar  (Read 10641 times)

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Offline mike

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BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« on: December 01, 2009, 04:24:01 PM »
Quote
Senior bishops have made it clear that in 2009 Bulgaria might celebrate Christmas on December 25 for the last time, if the Church decides to renounce the Gregorian Revised-Julian Calendar.

On December 20, 2009, the Holy Synod of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church is going to hold a meeting to consider the plea of a group of believers and their priest from the village of Chelopechene, asking that Christmas be celebrated on January 7. The plea was filed on November 20, 2009.

The local priest Mariy Dimitrov has been serving according to the Julian Calendar for the last 20 years in his parish with the special permission of Bulgarian Patriarch Maxim.

Those who filed the plea remind that a similar case for the restoration of the Julian Calendar in 1997 attracted the support of five bishops.

Bulgaria switched to the Gregorian Revised-Julian Calendar in 1916 1968, and has been celebrating Christmas on December 25 since it was restored as an official holiday after the end of the communist regime.

source
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 04:47:35 PM by mike »
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Offline alexp4uni

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2009, 04:30:18 PM »
Whos striking out words in the article you or the supposed editor? If your gonna show the article in the quote box please don't show your commentary its confusing me.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 04:31:52 PM by alexp4uni »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 04:47:29 PM »
Whos striking out words in the article you or the supposed editor? If your gonna show the article in the quote box please don't show your commentary its confusing me.
The strikethroughs appear to be mike's editorial changes since they're not found in the original article.  Yes, quoting a news article and editing its text to make it suit your own biases is rather bad form, since it attributes to the article itself statements that are solely your own.  A better way to offer a "correction" is to quote the article as is and offer your own commentary separately.
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Offline mike

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 04:48:14 PM »
I've only corrected the text's errors.
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 04:53:41 PM »
Hmm, that's interesting. My parish is Old Calendar because Met. Joseph allows us to be. It would be nice if the whole church used one calendar. :)

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Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2009, 04:55:37 PM »
I've only corrected the text's errors.
I realize how difficult it would have been to avoid doing so, since the "journalist" clearly doesn't know the difference between the Gregorian calendar and the Revised-Julian.

But I think they have a point; it would probably be better to note the needed corrections in your comments posted after the quotes.

Offline mike

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2009, 04:57:21 PM »
But I think they have a point; it would probably be better to note the needed corrections in your comments posted after the quotes.

Next time I'll do it in such a way.
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Offline alexp4uni

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 05:01:56 PM »
I've only corrected the text's errors.

I think you still have time to re-modify. I sure do that after clicking 'Post'. Mike I wasn't intentionally criticizing you but your signature says your fine with it.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 05:02:14 PM »
Bravo to the Bulgarian Orthodox Church.  I hope it comes to fruition.  Now, if the other Revised Julian Orthodox churches would follow suit, I think that would go a long way to strengthening intra-Orthodox union against the onslaughts and dangers of ecumenism.
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 06:30:16 PM »
One of the most substantial probems in Orthodoxy today is the difference in calendar use among ourselves; "some fast while others feast."  The calendar change is an example of why decisions in this church, which take too long to accomplish in my opinion, must be done in a conciliar manner, never-the-less, and not unilaterally (or partially multilaterally).

Thus, I would hope the Bulgarian Synod would grant an exception rather than hold fast to its 1968 calendar change, to avoid yet another break in communion.
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Offline Orthodoc

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 07:12:44 PM »


From my Bulgarian foster son regarding this -

=============

This artcile is incorrect.  BOC switched to the new calendar in 1968, not in 1916.  I don't believe they'll do that - I hope I am wrong!  During the SOBOR last year, only Metropolitan Nikolai of Plovdiv was a vocal supported of the Old Calendar, but the Synod even refused to put the Old Calendar discussion on the agenda.  I very much doubt that much has changed in the last few months.  There are plenty of priests there that still follow the Julian Calendar with the blessing of the local Metropolitan.  I know of two priests myself that follow the Julian Calendar in the Diocese of Sliven with Metropolitan Joanikii's blessing.

====================

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Offline Robb

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 08:40:14 PM »
This sounds like a real victory for Orthodox tradition.  If Bulgaria goes down this path then maybe other Churches will follow?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 08:49:56 PM »
If the Synod of the Bulgarian Church don't realise that are not following the Gregorian Calendar to begin with, I don't think they should be making any changes. Hopefully this was the error of the journalist and not the Bulgarian Church Hierarchy.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 09:00:20 PM »
Every Orthodox church is on the Julian Calendar. Some just don't realise we've revised it.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2009, 09:36:36 PM »
....... the "journalist" clearly doesn't know the difference between the Gregorian calendar and the Revised-Julian.


Does anybody blame him?   The Revised Julian and the Gregorian will be identical for the next 800 years.

In 2800 the Gregorian Calendar will have a leap year but the Revised Julian will not.  So in 800 years time the Revised Julian will fall behind by 1 day.

Offline Andrew21091

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 09:42:47 PM »
Well, lets hope other churches return to the original Church calendar like Bulgaria is doing and then maybe we can soon have unity in the Orthodox Church.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 11:05:49 PM »
....... the "journalist" clearly doesn't know the difference between the Gregorian calendar and the Revised-Julian.


Does anybody blame him?   The Revised Julian and the Gregorian will be identical for the next 800 years.

In 2800 the Gregorian Calendar will have a leap year but the Revised Julian will not.  So in 800 years time the Revised Julian will fall behind by 1 day.

800 years of advancement and we'll still be a day behind? Now that truly IS an Orthodox Calendar!! lol
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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2009, 11:10:57 PM »
....... the "journalist" clearly doesn't know the difference between the Gregorian calendar and the Revised-Julian.

Does anybody blame him?   The Revised Julian and the Gregorian will be identical for the next 800 years.

In 2800 the Gregorian Calendar will have a leap year but the Revised Julian will not.  So in 800 years time the Revised Julian will fall behind by 1 day.

800 years of advancement and we'll still be a day behind? Now that truly IS an Orthodox Calendar!! lol 

We'll only be "behind" viz a viz the Gregorian; we'll be more astronomically correct at that point, though.
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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2009, 11:59:20 PM »
I thought this thread was going to be about Blue Oyster Cult, that maybe they liked the idea of being on a pagan calendar or something. Here it is, just another Orthodox calendar thread. :(

Offline LakaYaRabb

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2009, 12:04:52 AM »
We should all be on the old calendar.

Offline believer74

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 12:25:41 AM »
Am I naive? Why isn't everybody on the old calendar? Why did some switch, really?

Offline Alpo

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2009, 08:31:28 AM »
This post was merged in with the existing thread.

Quote from: Novinite.com
The Bulgarian Orthodox Church may decide in favor of restoring the Julian Calendar, which means that Christmas will have be celebrated on January 7 instead of December 25.

Senior bishops have made it clear that in 2009 Bulgaria might celebrate Christmas on December 25 for the last time, if the Church decides to renounce the Gregorian Calendar.

On December 20, 2009, the Holy Synod of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church is going to hold a meeting to consider the plea of a group of believers and their priest from the village of Chelopechene, asking that Christmas be celebrated on January 7. The plea was filed on November 20, 2009.

The local priest Mariy Dimitrov has been serving according to the Julian Calendar for the last 20 years in his parish with the special permission of Bulgarian Patriarch Maxim.

Those who filed the plea remind that a similar case for the restoration of the Julian Calendar in 1997 attracted the support of five bishops.

Bulgaria switched to the Gregorian Calendar in 1916, and has been celebrating Christmas on December 25 since it was restored as an official holiday after the end of the communist regime.

Huh? I thought that my Church is practically the only one using the Gregorian Calendar. I suppose they just confuse the New Calendar with the Gregorian Calendar.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 08:50:42 AM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2009, 08:36:29 AM »
I suppose they just confuse the New Calendar with the Gregorian Calendar.
Yes, I know. However, there is another thread about this here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24683.0.html

Perhaps you could explain this simple fact to Irish Hermit since I have been trying for years to explain the difference, yet he still insists the Gregorian is the Revised Julian.

Perhaps if you try......
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2009, 08:43:22 AM »

Perhaps you could explain this simple fact to Irish Hermit since I have been trying for years to explain the difference, yet he still insists the Gregorian is the Revised Julian.

Perhaps if you try......

I never said they were not different.  I am just saying that they are identical for the next 800 years.   :)

In 2800 AD the difference will become evident when the Revised Julian falls behind the Gregorian by one day.

At that time the Church will find itself confronted by a Revised Revised Julian lobby and we could end up with three Calendars in the Orthodox Church.   :laugh:

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2009, 08:49:39 AM »
Seven minutes.
Must be a record for me. :)

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Offline ag_vn

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2009, 08:50:49 AM »
Quote
Bulgaria switched to the Gregorian Calendar in 1916, and has been celebrating Christmas on December 25 since it was restored as an official holiday after the end of the communist regime.

It is actually true that Bulgaria (not the Bulgarian Church) switched to the Gregorian Calendar in 1916, between 1916 and 1968 Christmas was celebrated on January 7, celebrating Christmas on December 25 started after 1968, when BOC switched to the Revised Julian Calendar.

Offline Alpo

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2009, 08:52:26 AM »
Yes, I know. However, there is another thread about this here...
"Oops! BOC is an acronym for Bulgarian Orthodox Church..." :-X
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2009, 08:54:02 AM »
Quote
Bulgaria switched to the Gregorian Calendar in 1916, and has been celebrating Christmas on December 25 since it was restored as an official holiday after the end of the communist regime.

It is actually true that Bulgaria (not the Bulgarian Church) switched to the Gregorian Calendar in 1916, between 1916 and 1968 Christmas was celebrated on January 7, celebrating Christmas on December 25 started after 1968, when BOC switched to the Revised Julian Calendar.
How did the Bulgarian Church calculate Pascha? Did it follow the Gregorian Paschalion?
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Offline ag_vn

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2009, 09:20:08 AM »
No, it follows the Julian Paschalion. Only the immovable feasts (with the exception the feast of St. George) are celebrated according to the Revised Julian Calendar.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2009, 09:21:38 AM »
No, it follows the Julian Paschalion. Only the immovable feasts (with the exception the feast of St. George) are celebrated according to the Revised Julian Calendar.
What day do you celebrate the Feast of St. George?
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Offline ag_vn

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2009, 09:31:53 AM »
Quote
What day do you celebrate the Feast of St. George?

According to the Julian Calendar, on May 6. So the Feast of Saint George is after the Great Lent.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 09:34:45 AM by ag_vn »

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2009, 09:38:38 AM »
Quote
What day do you celebrate the Feast of St. George?

According to the Julian Calendar, on May 6. So the Feast of Saint George is after the Great Lent.
I see. Thanks.
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2009, 11:24:56 AM »
The Revised Julian and the Gregorian will be identical for the next 800 years.

Is that right?  Huh.  I thought for sure that they were different, as those of us on the Revised Julian  calendar celebrate Pascha at exactly the same time as those on the Julian calendar.   ::)

We should all be on the old calendar.

We should all be on the Gregorian calendar, because it is accurate and the Julian calendar is not.  And because the arguments against celebrating Pascha at the same time as the Latins have been found to not hold water.  There is another thread somewhere where this was discussed.  

The problem with the Revised Julian calendar is the non-concilar and unChristian way in which it was forced on some people, not with the calendar itself.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:41:57 AM by Pravoslavbob »
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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2009, 11:52:06 AM »
Quote
What day do you celebrate the Feast of St. George?

According to the Julian Calendar, on May 6. So the Feast of Saint George is after the Great Lent.

This is the only problem I have with people using the Julian Calendar, is it screws up the dates in the mind of the faithful. Christmas is December 25th on the both the Julian and Revised, it is just that December 25th occurs 13 days later in the Julian. The feast of St. George is not May 6th it is APRIL 23, the question is when does April 23rd fall?

I fear the real problem will occur in 90 years when the separation will grow to 14 days and Christmas for those on Julian Calendar will now be January 8th on the Civil Calendar.
Joseph

Offline augustin717

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2009, 11:53:26 AM »
Pascha on the Gregorian calendar tends to fall too early. I'd stick with the present situation, since, at last, it is more likely to have springlike  weather on Easter, when celebrated according to the Julian calendar.

Offline ag_vn

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2009, 12:05:37 PM »
...The feast of St. George is not May 6th it is APRIL 23, the question is when does April 23rd fall?...

Thanks for clarification, that is what actually wanted to say. I am aware that May 6 is April 23 according to the Julian calendar. I should have written "May 6/April 23."

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2009, 12:24:34 PM »
...The feast of St. George is not May 6th it is APRIL 23, the question is when does April 23rd fall?...

Thanks for clarification, that is what actually wanted to say. I am aware that May 6 is April 23 according to the Julian calendar. I should have written "May 6/April 23."

Rather, "April 23/May 6" since from your perspective it is continuing to be on April 23, so that's the primary reckoning, and the civil date is secondary.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2009, 01:51:01 PM »
Pascha on the Gregorian calendar tends to fall too early. I'd stick with the present situation, since, at last, it is more likely to have springlike  weather on Easter, when celebrated according to the Julian calendar.
Right, because those who debate the calendar issue are primarily concerned about weather. ::)
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Offline augustin717

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2009, 02:19:16 PM »
Pascha on the Gregorian calendar tends to fall too early. I'd stick with the present situation, since, at last, it is more likely to have springlike  weather on Easter, when celebrated according to the Julian calendar.
Right, because those who debate the calendar issue are primarily concerned about weather. ::)
You might be used to having Easter in winter...

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2009, 02:29:09 PM »
Pascha on the Gregorian calendar tends to fall too early. I'd stick with the present situation, since, at last, it is more likely to have springlike  weather on Easter, when celebrated according to the Julian calendar.
Right, because those who debate the calendar issue are primarily concerned about weather. ::)
You might be used to having Easter in winter...
Why would my experience make any difference? But for your information, it's usually very warm on Pascha here in the American South, often above 25 degrees. We have a cookout each year with roast goat.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 02:29:53 PM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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Offline augustin717

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2009, 02:39:39 PM »
For this reason and the fact that we have kept Easter all our lives on the Julian calendar I and so many other people I talked to, would never like to switch to the Western Paschalion. Actually, where I come from people don't really know anything about Gregorian vs Julian calendars: they call Western Eastern "Hungarian/German Easter" and that alone gives them a strong sense that it's not theirs.

Offline arimethea

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2009, 03:46:56 PM »
...The feast of St. George is not May 6th it is APRIL 23, the question is when does April 23rd fall?...

Thanks for clarification, that is what actually wanted to say. I am aware that May 6 is April 23 according to the Julian calendar. I should have written "May 6/April 23."

I am glad to hear that you do understand, the unfortunate truth is that many do not understand. When you talk to many who are un-educated about the church, who have lived their whole life on the Julian, they believe that Christmas is January 7th and not December 25th.

And as a note with the revised Julian our Pascha would still not align every year with the western celebration of Easter and I am not sure if this has to do with the calendar or the fact that we determine the full moon of Jerusalem rather then Rome.   
Joseph

Offline Heorhij

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2009, 03:54:29 PM »
Well, lets hope other churches return to the original Church calendar like Bulgaria is doing and then maybe we can soon have unity in the Orthodox Church.

I don't want to fast during the New Year's celebration! The new calendar is fine as far as I am concerned. :)
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Offline Andrew21091

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2009, 04:08:19 PM »
I don't want to fast during the New Year's celebration! The new calendar is fine as far as I am concerned. :)

Well, I just think that the whole Church should be on one calendar for unity. How can we be unified when we don't even celebrate the feasts (aside from Pascha) together? The Greeks celebrate Nativity on one day and the Russians will do it 13 days later. How can that be unity? I say we should go back to the Old Calendar since thats the way it was before when the Church was unified fully and not with all the break away groups. If I'm not mistaken, did not the calendar change happen when the Ecumenical Patriarch began his ecumenist efforts with Rome? First the calendar change and then the anathemas on Rome were lifted.

Plus, you have it all wrong. New Years is September 1st!  ;D

Offline witega

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Re: BOC considers retuturning to the Julian Calendar
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2009, 04:22:43 PM »
Well, I just think that the whole Church should be on one calendar for unity. How can we be unified when we don't even celebrate the feasts (aside from Pascha) together?

Prior to Nicea, the various local Churches didn't share *any* feast days in common. At Nicea, the Fathers decided it would be a good idea that everybody celebrate the Feast of Feasts on the same day, but there was no suggestion made that any other part of the various liturgical calendars be standardized. Even once all the local Churches settled on Dec 25th for the Nativity (which also fixed the Annunciation on March 25th) there remained a number of major feasts that were not in synch between East and West. Calendrical unity is a relatively late development and largely a product of the Great schism. No Father of the Apostolic or Conciliar ages thought it at all relevant to actual unity.
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