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Author Topic: A Crackdown on Russian Protestants  (Read 8151 times) Average Rating: 0
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ms.hoorah
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« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2009, 10:22:23 PM »

Neighbors that are four houses from me are Protestant missionaries that have gone to Russia several times.  They are sent to areas where there are very few Orthodox churches and few priests.  The last city they were sent was along the Amur River (-45 C in winter).  There wasn’t a church for miles.  The highways are wretched and very few own cars.

They take hundreds of Russian Bibles with them.  They take clothing, vitamins, shoes, and baby formula for the orphanage.  They encourage everyone to investigate Christianity. They are sent with large funds to have fruit (very expensive) brought in on the train from China and to purchase breads to feed the poor. I look at their missionary activity as positive and as being a “warm-up” band for an Orthodox church if one ever is built in that city.  I would feel very differently if this couple was sent into areas that have many Orthodox churches. 
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« Reply #91 on: November 28, 2009, 10:28:27 PM »

^

care to comment on St Paul's preaching against proseltyzing?
Well?

Just finished typing a reply to this, but it will probably disappoint you. Smiley

Let's hear it anywhow.

Comment:

Let us stop arguing and pray that our Church be resolute in her teachings, strong in her example of Christian mercy and compassion and be led by clergy and monastics possessed of a strong heart, character,wisdom, charity and love.

Reply;  And you don't set the same standards for the Protestant missionaries that should be there assisting their fellow Christians that have been there for 1000+ years and have suffered so much?  Why the double standard?

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« Reply #92 on: November 28, 2009, 10:35:03 PM »

Being an American of Slavic heritage, I concur with NP. Two things to say - I know the GOAA priest of whom you speak, and he is a fine and compassionate man.  Second, for our modern 'conservative' friends, you may not realize it, but the argument about the friend being beaten up sounds like it could equally be an apologia for affirmative action!
I don't understand. Huh  Could you please explain what you mean?
HAHAHAHAHA! OH, P.T.A. You slay me! Everytime someone leaves the door open, you walk in like Kramer from Seinfeld! Smiley
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 10:35:25 PM by simplygermain » Logged

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ms.hoorah
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« Reply #93 on: November 28, 2009, 10:59:49 PM »



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« Reply #94 on: November 28, 2009, 11:13:16 PM »

Being an American of Slavic heritage, I concur with NP. Two things to say - I know the GOAA priest of whom you speak, and he is a fine and compassionate man.  Second, for our modern 'conservative' friends, you may not realize it, but the argument about the friend being beaten up sounds like it could equally be an apologia for affirmative action!
I don't understand. Huh  Could you please explain what you mean?
HAHAHAHAHA! OH, P.T.A. You slay me! Everytime someone leaves the door open, you walk in like Kramer from Seinfeld! Smiley
But we're discussing Protestants in Russia, not episodes of Seinfeld.
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simplygermain
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« Reply #95 on: November 28, 2009, 11:45:47 PM »

Being an American of Slavic heritage, I concur with NP. Two things to say - I know the GOAA priest of whom you speak, and he is a fine and compassionate man.  Second, for our modern 'conservative' friends, you may not realize it, but the argument about the friend being beaten up sounds like it could equally be an apologia for affirmative action!
I don't understand. Huh  Could you please explain what you mean?
HAHAHAHAHA! OH, P.T.A. You slay me! Everytime someone leaves the door open, you walk in like Kramer from Seinfeld! Smiley
But we're discussing Protestants in Russia, not episodes of Seinfeld.
Of course, of course, business as usual...Nothing to see here folks, nothing to see. Go about your business.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 11:46:24 PM by simplygermain » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: November 29, 2009, 08:38:11 PM »

For Christians above all men are forbidden to correct the
stumblings of sinners by force...it is necessary to make a man
better not by force but by persuasion. We neither have autority
granted us by law to restrain sinners, nor, if it were, should we
know how to use it, since God gives the crown to those who are
kept from evil, not by force, but by choice.

St. John Chrysostom

http://www.balamandmonastery.org.lb/fathers/indexsayings2.htm

Good quote, although I read some things in where he almost supported the opposite. But I have to re-read it just to make sure......but what you quoted was pretty much how christians thought for the first number of centuries.





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« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2009, 08:41:00 PM »

Many of us in the United States and Canada who are so-called 'cradle Orthodox' are the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of brave men and women who left the oppressive shores of European autocracies and 'empires', be they Austro-Hungarian, Russian, Ottoman or others, to come to North America in order to have the ability to profess their Faith and love of God in a country that didn't force a belief system upon them.  In fact, many of them returned to Orthodoxy within a few years of coming to America.  To argue that our Faith is somehow against religious liberty is slippery slope to the intellectualism and defense of oppression and persecution. To  believe otherwise is, I fear, to keep counsel with those who would force a model of 'religion' upon people through terror and fear, such as the Taliban in our days, or the Cromwellians of post-Elizabethian England or any of their ilk throughout history. I agree that the proseltyzing in Eastern Europe among the believers is offensive and contrary to Scripture - but keep in mind that is just as true in Europe as it is here in America. We all need to bear witness to the truth and power of our Faith in the face of those who would challenge us.

I would like to thank you for this post!






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« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2009, 08:45:43 PM »

A further thought.  I can completely understand those whose families have emigrated from Eastern Europe believing in freedoms of speech and religion.  You were oppressed in your own country, often with Soviet soldiers enforcing this tyranny.  But for those of us whose families have been in the U.S for some time (mine for well over three hundred years) we know that "freedom of speech" has been co-opted by liberals to protect vice such as pornography, child molestation (Why has the Acorn offices that promoted bring Hispanic children into our country for child prostitution not been closed down?) and the like.  Also freedom of religion has become freedom from religion.  In Russia the Church has successfully re-introduced Orthodoxy into the public schools; in the U.S such activities are becoming increasingly difficult.  This American Protestant country must look like heaven to many who have emigrated here, but for those who have deep roots here it is increasingly becoming an Adam Lambert hell. 

True and a thousand amens! But Russia shouldn't reject the idea of teaching her people the faith, as well as teaching them why protestantism is wrong.

For that alone, will stop most of what's going on in it's tracks.





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« Reply #99 on: November 30, 2009, 08:19:45 AM »

There have been indigenous Russian Protestants as well as those from outside http://www.molokane.org/
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« Reply #100 on: November 30, 2009, 09:10:28 AM »

Neighbors that are four houses from me are Protestant missionaries that have gone to Russia several times.  They are sent to areas where there are very few Orthodox churches and few priests.  The last city they were sent was along the Amur River (-45 C in winter).  There wasn’t a church for miles.  The highways are wretched and very few own cars.

They take hundreds of Russian Bibles with them.  They take clothing, vitamins, shoes, and baby formula for the orphanage.  They encourage everyone to investigate Christianity. They are sent with large funds to have fruit (very expensive) brought in on the train from China and to purchase breads to feed the poor. I look at their missionary activity as positive and as being a “warm-up” band for an Orthodox church if one ever is built in that city.  I would feel very differently if this couple was sent into areas that have many Orthodox churches. 

See that is exactly the point.  The above is entirely contrary to the ethos of Slavic Orthodoxy.  The grandeur, might and glory of the Third Rome are quintessential of Slavic Orthodoxy, as well as giving the occasional street kid a tattoo.   
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« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2009, 11:34:05 AM »

Protestantism is poison.  Its fruit is iconclastic with its "worship centers" in warehouses and shopping malls.  It is the purveyor of gender-neutrality as it ignores and at times despises the Blessed Theotokos.  And it tends toward universalism and even nihilism as it works its way through a culture.  Is there some truth it it?  Of course it has elements of Orthodoxy in it, but so did Arianism. 

The American notion of "freedom of religion" has resulted in a freedom from religion as public squares are increasingly devoid in December of anthing reminiscent of the Nativity of Christ.  The Russian Orthodox do not want that to happen in their country.  They were persecuted by the communist for most of the last century; they do not want to set the stage for ideological liberals to poison the good thing that is happening in Russia.  Accordingly, Orthodox must not physically harm anyone in order to preserve truth; but this in no way implies that a majority Orthodox country must give equal rights and privileges to heterodox sects.

But isn't atheism and militant anti-theism (theomachia) also a poison?

So, would you support mass arrests or deportations or other measures of state-run repression on Russian atheists and anti-theists?
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« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2009, 11:44:04 AM »

In Russia the Church has successfully re-introduced Orthodoxy into the public schools;

In my home country, Ukraine, the state (particularly the President and the Prime Minister) is now trying to come up with a project of introducing a subject called Orthodox Ethics into public schools. I can't begin to tell you how infuriated the Ukrainian intellectuals and public activists are by this project. People openly say that this means "clericalization" of the Ukrainian education, which will mean the end of it, as well as the end of the last remnants of sciences and humanities in Ukraine.
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ms.hoorah
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« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2009, 07:57:58 PM »

Protestantism is poison.  Its fruit is iconclastic with its "worship centers" in warehouses and shopping malls.  It is the purveyor of gender-neutrality as it ignores and at times despises the Blessed Theotokos.  And it tends toward universalism and even nihilism as it works its way through a culture.  Is there some truth it it?  Of course it has elements of Orthodoxy in it, but so did Arianism. 

The American notion of "freedom of religion" has resulted in a freedom from religion as public squares are increasingly devoid in December of anthing reminiscent of the Nativity of Christ.  The Russian Orthodox do not want that to happen in their country.  They were persecuted by the communist for most of the last century; they do not want to set the stage for ideological liberals to poison the good thing that is happening in Russia.  Accordingly, Orthodox must not physically harm anyone in order to preserve truth; but this in no way implies that a majority Orthodox country must give equal rights and privileges to heterodox sects.

But isn't atheism and militant anti-theism (theomachia) also a poison?

So, would you support mass arrests or deportations or other measures of state-run repression on Russian atheists and anti-theists?
I don't think of anyone as "poison".  I only wish for the Orthodox churches to not have to "compete" with the Protestant missionaries.  The Far East suffers with escalating poverty and unemployment. The free fresh fruit and other freebies distributed after Protestant worship services would be very enticing.
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ms.hoorah
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« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2009, 08:53:26 PM »

In Russia the Church has successfully re-introduced Orthodoxy into the public schools;

In my home country, Ukraine, the state (particularly the President and the Prime Minister) is now trying to come up with a project of introducing a subject called Orthodox Ethics into public schools. I can't begin to tell you how infuriated the Ukrainian intellectuals and public activists are by this project. People openly say that this means "clericalization" of the Ukrainian education, which will mean the end of it, as well as the end of the last remnants of sciences and humanities in Ukraine.

According to this document, some schools is the eastern area have to take ethics courses based on atheist, Soviet-times doctrine. What is included in the Soviet ethics class?

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71415.htm

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« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2009, 08:58:51 PM »

In Russia the Church has successfully re-introduced Orthodoxy into the public schools;

In my home country, Ukraine, the state (particularly the President and the Prime Minister) is now trying to come up with a project of introducing a subject called Orthodox Ethics into public schools. I can't begin to tell you how infuriated the Ukrainian intellectuals and public activists are by this project. People openly say that this means "clericalization" of the Ukrainian education, which will mean the end of it, as well as the end of the last remnants of sciences and humanities in Ukraine.

According to this document, some schools is the eastern area have to take ethics courses based on atheist, Soviet-times doctrine. What is included in the Soviet ethics class?

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71415.htm

I'm sure the same thing found in every single other ethics class I've ever seen: Misinformation, Propaganda, and Indoctrination. Some things are just standard across cultures.
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« Reply #106 on: December 01, 2009, 01:02:24 PM »

In Russia the Church has successfully re-introduced Orthodoxy into the public schools;

In my home country, Ukraine, the state (particularly the President and the Prime Minister) is now trying to come up with a project of introducing a subject called Orthodox Ethics into public schools. I can't begin to tell you how infuriated the Ukrainian intellectuals and public activists are by this project. People openly say that this means "clericalization" of the Ukrainian education, which will mean the end of it, as well as the end of the last remnants of sciences and humanities in Ukraine.

According to this document, some schools is the eastern area have to take ethics courses based on atheist, Soviet-times doctrine. What is included in the Soviet ethics class?

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71415.htm
I'm sure the same thing found in every single other ethics class I've ever seen: Misinformation, Propaganda, and Indoctrination. Some things are just standard across cultures.
Sounds like modern American "science" classes that promote the catastrophic Gore-bull warming myth.
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