Author Topic: Reply To Schismatics  (Read 2453 times)

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Offline VladCatholic

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Reply To Schismatics
« on: December 12, 2003, 02:24:44 AM »
It is a great shame that the so-called Orthodox churches are in heresy. In my conversations with heretics of this sect I find that they lose tract of one great question: What did the Early Church Fathers have to say on the doctrine of the Papacy?

  They always miss the boat etc. There is so much support for the Roman Primacy and Papacy in the Early Church. Especially in light of the Eastern Church Fathers.


  St. John Chrysostom (344/354-407 A.D.):

“Peter the mouth of the choir of the Apostles, the first in the Church, the friend of Christ, [GǪ] this Peter, and when I say Peter, I mean the unbroken Rock, the unshaken foundation, the great apostleGǪ” (T. ii Hom. V. de Poenit. n. 2, p. 309).

  Now, if the Greeks take their liturgy after this Saint (whom they regard as a saint) how can they not recognize what he said?

  Now, either St. John is right or wrong according to their (Greek Schismatics) theology. If he (st. John) is right in what he said then they "disregard" what this saint and many had to say on the office and nature of the papacy.

  How could St. John be a saint in the so-called Greek Orthodox church when this sect states that the doctrine of the papacy is heretical?

  Also, on the issue of birth control. The so-called Greek church and the other indepentent sects in harmony with the so-called Orthodox church are in heresy and support the use of birth control (the pill) which was originally formulated by a doctor in Massachusetts and funded and advocated by Margret Sanger -- that witch!

  Now, the so-called Orthodox church does approve of contraception (the pill) in more than one way. For example, you have the "extreme" right, that of the Julian Calendar follwers or otherwise known as the Old Calendarists. These held out against Meletios Mataxakis (Greek Patriarch of Constantinople) in the early 20th cen.

  He advocated that the church adopt the calendar of the West that was approved by the Roman Church under Pope Gregory XIII in 1583 A.D. known as: the Gregorian Calendar.

  Funny, the Protestants soon adpoted this Calendar reform of Pope Gregory shortly thereafter.

  Protestants "steal" from the Church of Rome.

  Adovactes for the "extreme" position of this calendar are such people as Fr. Christos Constantinou who promote birth control.

  These Old Calendarists believe that the Church of Rome is heretical and that it has "no grace" or valid sacraments and therefore they (Catholics) must be "re" baptized when they come into heretical unity with the so-called Orthodox.

  The other side is lighter in it's judgment and expresses "economia" in its theology and practice.


  Now, a standard theological work that is used "mainly" by the New Calenarist churches is:

"The Orthodox Church: 455 Questions and Answers"  
                 (Printed in 1988 by Light and Life)

  By Fr. Stanley S. Harakas

  But, this book is also as I have seen used by the Old Calendarists churches as well.

  In it, there is a question of birth control raised and answered that their are mixed views of the so-called Orthodox on this matter.

  One thing that should be noted: Neither side (Old or New) condemn the other for taking either position.

  I have (personally) spoken with Old Calendarists that take either position but don't condemn either in their "old" calendarist camp. Just as the same is so in the "new" calendarists camp.

  Birth control is not a "debatable" issue -- it is condemned "period."

  If masturbation is a sin then too must be contraception -- the result is the same -- to prevent conception. The sin is in the "intention."

  See article 2, p. 2 of the above mentioned work of Fr. Harakas.

  Note of the author os this matters: I am not a sedevacantist or Feeneyite. I am a Roman Catholic and follow the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and reject communion with heretics and schismatics and also do not acknowledge the so-called papacy of John Paul II.

  As far as Fr. Feeney is concerned, I believe he is a saint. Fr. Feeney is not responsible for the Dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus -- that is Christ's doctrine (Matt. 18:17). Fr. Feeney only pointed out what was being neglected in his day.

  Those that follow John Paul II are heretics and communion with them is prohibted. Just as with the so-called Orthodox communion is prohibited.

  As far as true jurisdiction is concerned, groups like Society of Pius V are heretical for they reject the dogma of Christ on salvation and they have not true jurisdiction. Jurisdiction comes only from a true and valid pope.

  With this I remain,


Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:Reply To Schismatics
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2003, 02:30:28 AM »
If you want to prove that one must be subordinate to a sole leader or vicar of Christ on earth, in the form of the papacy, you could have picked a much more convincing quote- they do exist(and even these can be pretty easily refuted).
Secondly, you're not in communion with the so-called "successor" to Peter either. Who is your Pope? Where is your Papacy? As far as the birth control/calendar thing... you get quite jumbled towards the end and I'm having difficulty finding your point.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2003, 02:32:10 AM by Bogoliubtsy »
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline prodromos

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Re:Reply To Schismatics
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2003, 03:07:06 AM »
Since our new friend doesn't feel it necessary to actually involve himself with the threads he has started, I'm going to save us all a lot of wasted effort and lock this thread.



Online Mor Ephrem

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Re:Reply To Schismatics
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2003, 08:54:38 AM »
Note of the author os this matters: I am not a sedevacantist or Feeneyite. I am a Roman Catholic and follow the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and reject communion with heretics and schismatics and also do not acknowledge the so-called papacy of John Paul II.

...So you're a Protestant.  OK.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Robert

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Re:Reply To Schismatics
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2003, 09:00:58 AM »
Another graceless heretic.