Author Topic: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)  (Read 5450 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Altar Server

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 980
  • Holy Father Seraphim, Pray to God for us!
Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« on: November 24, 2009, 07:47:48 AM »
 +Glory to Jesus Christ

      Catholics celebrate the Mass(Divine Liturgy) everyday do orthodox have a problem with that theologicaly? If so why ?

           
          In Jesus and Mary,

               David
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline Justin Kissel

  • *
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,251
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 07:59:20 AM »
Are you asking if 1) the Orthodox have issues with Roman Catholics doing this, or 2) if the Orthodox would have a problem doing it in their own parishes? I ask because I think these are two different questions, and you'll get different answers depending on which you're asking.

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,383
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 08:07:04 AM »
The Divine Liturgy is celebrated daily in larger Eastern Orthodox monasteries, so no, there is no theological problem.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Altar Server

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 980
  • Holy Father Seraphim, Pray to God for us!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 08:11:39 AM »
Are you asking if 1) the Orthodox have issues with Roman Catholics doing this, or 2) if the Orthodox would have a problem doing it in their own parishes? I ask because I think these are two different questions, and you'll get different answers depending on which you're asking.

  I was really asking both sorry I didn't make the question clearer.
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline Justin Kissel

  • *
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,251
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 08:14:40 AM »
Ok, thanks, just wanted to make sure before I said anything. I guess what I was thinking of was a practical consideration for the Orthodox. It's my understanding that priests abstain from sexual relations before giving communion the next day. Obviously this wouldn't have an impact on monks, as with the example George gave. However, if we're talking about an Orthodox parish with only one priest, asking him to give communion every day would basically be asking him to become a celibate. I doubt many Orthodox priests would want to take on that burden, especially if living with a spouse.

Offline Altar Server

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 980
  • Holy Father Seraphim, Pray to God for us!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 08:17:16 AM »
Well if that the case (abstaining from sexual relations) I see the point.
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline Andrew21091

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,272
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 02:57:28 PM »
The Divine Liturgy is celebrated daily in larger Eastern Orthodox monasteries, so no, there is no theological problem.

The monastery doesn't even have to be large to celebrate Liturgy daily. I've been to a small monastery (a community of four) which does Liturgy everyday. I've also read about priest-monks on Mt. Athos who are hermits and do the Liturgy alone (or with one other person to chant and read) everyday.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,140
  • Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 03:47:36 PM »
The Divine Liturgy is celebrated daily in larger Eastern Orthodox monasteries, so no, there is no theological problem.

The monastery doesn't even have to be large to celebrate Liturgy daily. I've been to a small monastery (a community of four) which does Liturgy everyday. I've also read about priest-monks on Mt. Athos who are hermits and do the Liturgy alone (or with one other person to chant and read) everyday.
Catholic priests will celebrate the mass alone when it becomes necessary.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,577
  • Shevchenko - extraordinary poet and top footballer
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 03:49:09 PM »
Orthodox Priests can't start the Liturgy of Faithfuls when there is no one else.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:49:58 PM by mike »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline HandmaidenofGod

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,397
  • O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 04:31:17 PM »
The only day of the year that the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday ("Good Friday" as it is known in the West.) St. Nicholas of Planas (Papa Nicholas) was known for his daily celebration of the Liturgy. As he was a widower, he didn't have to worry about the aforementioned constraints that many parish priests have with the daily celebration of the Liturgy.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,577
  • Shevchenko - extraordinary poet and top footballer
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 04:36:11 PM »
It's not about Holy Friday, but about Matthew 18, 20. Christ won't make bread and wine mixed with water His Body and Blood for Priest only.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,140
  • Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 04:37:25 PM »
The only day of the year that the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday ("Good Friday" as it is known in the West.) St. Nicholas of Planas (Papa Nicholas) was known for his daily celebration of the Liturgy. As he was a widower, he didn't have to worry about the aforementioned constraints that many parish priests have with the daily celebration of the Liturgy.
We do not have mass on Good Friday either. Rather we have a communion service with hosts that have been consecrated at a previous mass. Perhaps this is analogous to the your pre-santictified liturgy?
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,397
  • O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 04:50:35 PM »
The only day of the year that the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday ("Good Friday" as it is known in the West.) St. Nicholas of Planas (Papa Nicholas) was known for his daily celebration of the Liturgy. As he was a widower, he didn't have to worry about the aforementioned constraints that many parish priests have with the daily celebration of the Liturgy.
We do not have mass on Good Friday either. Rather we have a communion service with hosts that have been consecrated at a previous mass. Perhaps this is analogous to the your pre-santictified liturgy?

It certainly sounds similar, however we do not have pre-Sanctified Liturgy on Holy Friday. Holy Friday is the only day of the year the Eucharist is not celebrated in any way.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,275
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 07:02:02 PM »
The only day of the year that the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday ("Good Friday" as it is known in the West.) St. Nicholas of Planas (Papa Nicholas) was known for his daily celebration of the Liturgy. As he was a widower, he didn't have to worry about the aforementioned constraints that many parish priests have with the daily celebration of the Liturgy.

The canons forbid Divine Liturgy on Mon-Fri of the Great Fast, The Feast of the Annunciation excepted.  I am sure St. Nicholas honored this canon.  He may have celebrated Presanctified Liturgy on all the weekdays of the Great Fast as was once the practice before it came to be restricted to Wed and Fri only.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

  • Professor Emeritus, CSA
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,790
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 07:56:10 PM »
Orthodox Priests can't start the Liturgy of Faithfuls when there is no one else.
Right. The practice follows Christ's promise to be with us "when two or three are gathered together." We take his words to mean that at least two must be present. But yes, those two can be a priest and a reader.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline HandmaidenofGod

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,397
  • O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 08:54:41 PM »
The canons forbid Divine Liturgy on Mon-Fri of the Great Fast, The Feast of the Annunciation excepted.  I am sure St. Nicholas honored this canon.  He may have celebrated Presanctified Liturgy on all the weekdays of the Great Fast as was once the practice before it came to be restricted to Wed and Fri only.

I was merely repeating what was told to me by my priest on numerous occasions.

In regards to Papa Nicholas, more can be read about his life here: http://www.roca.org/OA/56/56e.htm

"The focus of Father Nicholas' entire life and indeed of all creation was the traditional liturgical cycle of the Orthodox Church, culminating in daily Divine Liturgy--in fifty years he never once missed daily Liturgy.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline filipinopilgrim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2010, 10:42:15 PM »
Here's what I said on another thread:

Using Google Translate, I have been "reading" Patriarch Kirill's December 23, 2009 report to the Diocesan Assembly of Moscow and it seems to state that Moscow has 170 churches with daily Divine Liturgy:


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.patriarchia.ru%2F&sl=ru&tl=en

Patriarch Kirill also notes that, as of December 23, he had served 229 services as Patriarch. (He was enthroned February 1 so that would be 229 services for nearly 11 months).

Offline sheenj

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,429
  • St. Gregorios of Parumala, pray for us...
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Indian/Malankara Orthodox Church
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2012, 11:18:04 AM »
The only day of the year that the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday ("Good Friday" as it is known in the West.) St. Nicholas of Planas (Papa Nicholas) was known for his daily celebration of the Liturgy. As he was a widower, he didn't have to worry about the aforementioned constraints that many parish priests have with the daily celebration of the Liturgy.
We do not have mass on Good Friday either. Rather we have a communion service with hosts that have been consecrated at a previous mass. Perhaps this is analogous to the your pre-santictified liturgy?

It certainly sounds similar, however we do not have pre-Sanctified Liturgy on Holy Friday. Holy Friday is the only day of the year the Eucharist is not celebrated in any way.
Sorry for resurrecting the thread... but what about Annunciation?
In the Syriac Tradition, Liturgy must be served on Annunciation day even if it falls on the Friday of Holy week; is this not the case in the Byzantine Rite?

Offline elephant

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 693
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2012, 01:23:24 PM »
Dear sheenj,

I may be incorrect - it is my understanding that if Holy Friday occurs on the same day as Annunciation, the celebration of the Annunciation is combined with Pascha.  However, this would only occur with Annunciation recognized on the the "Old" calendar.  On the "New" the earliest possible date for Pascha is April 3, thus Annunciation can never coincide with Holy Friday.

love, elephant.

Offline sheenj

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,429
  • St. Gregorios of Parumala, pray for us...
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Indian/Malankara Orthodox Church
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 01:59:38 PM »
Dear sheenj,

I may be incorrect - it is my understanding that if Holy Friday occurs on the same day as Annunciation, the celebration of the Annunciation is combined with Pascha.  However, this would only occur with Annunciation recognized on the the "Old" calendar.  On the "New" the earliest possible date for Pascha is April 3, thus Annunciation can never coincide with Holy Friday.

love, elephant.
Ah, thank you for the edifying reply.

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,275
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2012, 10:10:34 PM »
Perhaps the Greeks have a different rule but in the Slavic tradition if Annunciation falls on Good Friday a Vesperal Litrugy of St John Chrysostom is prescriped.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Father H

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,652
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Nea Roma
Re: Daily Celebration of the Mass (Divine Liturgy)
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2012, 10:45:35 PM »
The only day of the year that the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday ("Good Friday" as it is known in the West.) St. Nicholas of Planas (Papa Nicholas) was known for his daily celebration of the Liturgy. As he was a widower, he didn't have to worry about the aforementioned constraints that many parish priests have with the daily celebration of the Liturgy.

The canons forbid Divine Liturgy on Mon-Fri of the Great Fast, The Feast of the Annunciation excepted.  I am sure St. Nicholas honored this canon.  He may have celebrated Presanctified Liturgy on all the weekdays of the Great Fast as was once the practice before it came to be restricted to Wed and Fri only.

It is still is not restricted according to Pedalion and Kormchaya Kniga, which say that the canon supercedes the ritual (typikon).  
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 10:46:03 PM by FatherHLL »