Author Topic: Christ: Adam Kadmon?  (Read 5536 times)

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Offline Pilgrim

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Christ: Adam Kadmon?
« on: November 19, 2009, 01:35:00 AM »
I was asked by someone the other day (who studies, but doesn't practice, Kabbalah, and the Rabbinical Jewish writings) whether or not Christ is comparable (or could be considered) Adam Kadmon. I'm not quite sure how to answer this, though I know about the doctrine of this incarnation of Primieval Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon

I know that this is a Jewish (and somewhat Gnostic) teaching, but can it be carried over?
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Christ: Adam Kadmon?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 04:54:06 PM »
I was asked by someone the other day (who studies, but doesn't practice, Kabbalah, and the Rabbinical Jewish writings) whether or not Christ is comparable (or could be considered) Adam Kadmon. I'm not quite sure how to answer this, though I know about the doctrine of this incarnation of Primieval Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon

I know that this is a Jewish (and somewhat Gnostic) teaching, but can it be carried over?
One could argue that the Son incarnating as human, is the manifestation of Adam Kadmon, the Complete Man. If the Son is the Person of the Trinity who interacted with Adam, Noah, and the Prophets, then the Son could be seen as the Primal Soul, which is another meaning of Adam Kadmon.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Christ: Adam Kadmon?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 06:01:35 PM »
Something about this bugs me, and I think it has something to do with "what is unassumed is unredeemed".
Our salvation comes from the Incarnate Logos who assumed our humanity in order to redeem it. He did not assume an "ideal" humanity, but rather, He deified it by joining it to Him. His body and soul, like ours, were created, and his humanity lived under the conditions of the Fall (He thirsted, hungered, felt tired, wept etc). It was a very "earthly" humanity which Christ assumed, not an idealised "heavenly" one.
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Offline John of the North

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Re: Christ: Adam Kadmon?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 06:04:09 PM »
I was asked by someone the other day (who studies, but doesn't practice, Kabbalah, and the Rabbinical Jewish writings) whether or not Christ is comparable (or could be considered) Adam Kadmon. I'm not quite sure how to answer this, though I know about the doctrine of this incarnation of Primieval Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon

I know that this is a Jewish (and somewhat Gnostic) teaching, but can it be carried over?

I do have issue with this because Adam and Eve were not created perfect, but sinless. On the other hand, Christ WAS and IS perfect.
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline Pilgrim

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Re: Christ: Adam Kadmon?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 09:17:36 PM »
I'm not sure what tag would lead to threads about the Son being the Person of the Trinity who spoke in the old testament, but I've been meaning to look at this. Could one of the mods post a tag? Thanks.
Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth help us to walk the way of Life, which is Christ Jesus.

St. Cyril, St. Leo, and St. Severus pray that the Church may be united and one, Eastern and Oriental.St. Issac the Syrian, pray that Assyria would return to the Holy Church. St. Gregory, pray for Rom

Offline Nazarene

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Re: Christ: Adam Kadmon?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 10:03:03 AM »
Pilgrim,

Take a look at this link, I'm sure you'll find it helpful: http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1769.

A word of advice (from the link above) about studying Kabbalah:

Quote from: Yochanan
...and i do not readily support the teachings of Kabbalistic doctrine in connection with the learning of our Messiah. there are many interesting methods of interpretation that i have learned, but the application of such things do not, or rather, should not create new doctrines that would add to the splendour of the plain text. in looking into some methods of interpretation, all the neat little anomalies in the Hebrew text, when properly interpreted, point to the Messiah, or so i have found. but this is referring to method of interpretation as i have learned from my studies of kabbalah, and not of kabbalistic doctrine itself...

...it was my intention to explain that Kabbalistic doctrines, which i am very familiar with, do not coincide with Messianic/Christian teachings of our Messiah. essentially, if we can take these mystical doctrines and apply them to Messiah, then we can easily take the teachings of the Tao Te Ch'ing or other spiritualities and do likewise, simply because there seems to be something similar to an idea or concept in our doctrines concerning Messiah as related to the scriptures. and there are those who have done so. Chanokh' (Enoch), AKA Metatron in the Hekhaloth tradition, is considered an "Ascended Master" or "Christed One" by certain other occult groups, along with, and being either part of, or reincarnated as, Budha, Confucious, Elijah and others, even Jesus. it is my intention to discourage brothers and sisters in our Lord from looking into these things for supposed "deeper" wisdom and knowledge, especially if they really do not know anything about the stuff or its tradition...

Kabbalah is not all bad, it can be very helpful for interpreting certain passages of Scripture, eg: the Book of Hebrews. But please remember that method of interpretation should not create any new doctrines in addition to those clearly spelled out in the plain text. And be aware that not everything that advertises itself as "Kabbalah" (like what Madonna is associated with) is real traditional Jewish Kabbalah:

Quote
Readings in this area should be undertaken with extreme caution.  There is entirely too much literature out there under the name "Kabbalah" that has little or nothing to do with the true Jewish teachings on this subject.  Any book on the subject of practical Kabbalah should be disregarded immediately; no legitimate source would ever make such teachings available to a faceless mass audience.

Quote from: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/kabbalah.htm