Author Topic: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble  (Read 106 times)

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Offline Iconodule

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David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« on: Today at 09:45:40 AM »
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...I think it reasonable to ask not whether we are Christians (by that standard, all fall short), but whether in our wildest imaginings we could ever desire to be the kind of persons that the New Testament describes as fitting the pattern of life in Christ. And I think the fairly obvious answer is that we could not. I do not mean merely that most of us find the moral requirements laid out in Christian scripture a little onerous, though of course we do ...Rather, I mean that most of us would find Christians truly cast in the New Testament mold fairly obnoxious: civically reprobate, ideologically unsound, economically destructive, politically irresponsible, socially discreditable, and really just a bit indecent.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/christs-rabble
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But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'Urbervilles

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #1 on: Today at 10:28:35 AM »
When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?

Offline Alpo

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #2 on: Today at 10:33:58 AM »
Reading at halfway now. Seems spot on in that we don't actually want to be Christians.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #3 on: Today at 10:48:52 AM »
Superb article, never read anything by DBH before.

So what do we do? Just become defeatist and say being a Christian is impossible or strive?

One of my favorite parts in the article

Quote
Because one thing in remarkably short supply in the New Testament is common sense. The Gospels, the epistles, Acts, Revelation—all of them are relentless torrents of exorbitance and extremism: commands to become as perfect as God in his heaven and to live as insouciantly as lilies in their field; condemnations of a roving eye as equivalent to adultery and of evil thoughts toward another as equivalent to murder; injunctions to sell all one’s possessions and to give the proceeds to the poor, and demands that one hate one’s parents for the Kingdom’s sake and leave the dead to bury the dead. This extremism is not merely an occasional hyperbolic presence in the texts;
“Their throat is an open grave;
    they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”

Romans 3:13



"I'm very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words...but there's no better word than stupid. Right?" - Donald Trump

FOR THE FOOLISHNESS OF GOD IS WISER THAN MEN, AND THE WEAKNESS OF GOD IS STRONGER THAN MEN!

He catches the wise in their craftiness!

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #4 on: Today at 11:15:59 AM »
Reading at halfway now. Seems spot on in that we don't actually want to be Christians.

Finished it.

I do.

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #5 on: Today at 12:32:00 PM »
Insouciantly.
Quote from: Pope Francis
Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'animal politicus.' So at least I am a human person.

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #6 on: Today at 12:33:23 PM »
The guy is so awesomely pretentious it becomes a form of humility.
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But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'Urbervilles

Online William T

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #7 on: Today at 12:36:24 PM »
The guy is so awesomely pretentious purple.

For someone who criticisms Christian emperors saints so much, this man is certainly draped in a lot of purple.. is cI think when it comes to reading things like this, anymore I approach Carnap's disdain of Heidegger: "Metaphysicians are musicians without musical ability."

How many of these people are ultra cantankerous failed artists?

My guess is I'd have to slog through thousands upon thousands of tortured pages of his quaint German academic folk traditions and customs to find out what he really means by "capitalism", if he means anything at all by it.  Is he talking about economic systems? Is he talking about a critique of secularism?  What does this matter? Does he want a communist theocracy?  Does he want to take a "more hip" version of "The Benedict Option"?

Why is he criticizing someone for using "common sense" in one area, then saying "Christ's words are unambiguous" in the same article?  Saying the "teachings are plain" here, but in other articles points out that ultra allegory and nuance is the way to go?  Dismissing one Church Father in one area, while pointing to desert monks in another?  I'm confused.

And when people start to ask him for clarifications, he just hurls invective after invective on them.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:59:44 PM by William T »

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #8 on: Today at 12:48:13 PM »
The guy is so awesomely pretentious it becomes a form of humility.

It was published in Commonweal.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Alpo

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Re: David Bentley Hart: Christ's Rabble
« Reply #9 on: Today at 01:21:46 PM »
Read the latter half too. The first one was better.

His point was interesting and I grant that it's not possible to get through every argument in a relatively short article. Still, wasn't convinced of what I understood to be his main point i.e. according to the NT wealth in itself is a bad thing. He left hyberbola umconsidered and IMO made a too strong contrast between his position and the position that wealth is bad only conditionally. IMO in practice there doesn't need to be that much difference if we took the latter position seriously.

Also, he left the Fathers out. Random references to St. Clement doesn't save that. IIRC the guy's Orthodox so that's pretty weird approach.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34